Folk Programme Axed!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:53 AM

Thanks for reminding us of the other music programmes Ali. So much for it being all about "the music, music, music"!
I used to listen to Christine Prentice's "String of Pearls" show before the Rugby programme on a Sunday before I started going to matches. A wonderful show for pre-Rock and Roll era music - very popular. The Brass band show used to wake me up on a Sunday morning as well.

By the way Ali, I hope your dad's OK and comfortable now after his accident.
Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 05:10 PM

And also the classical, 30's / 40's, and brass band programmes - apparently they've received loads of complaints from brass band lovers - of which there are many round here of course.

Altogether, those audiences will be a sizeable number of people. Didn't listen tonight - I couldn't !!!

Ali

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 10:49 AM

BBC GMR is dead - long live BBC Radio Manchester

From their updated website:

It's all about the music, music, music
BBC Radio Manchester is not a music station. But music's always been a big part of Manchester, and it's an important part of BBC Radio Manchester.
We're proud of our mix – we're over 60% speech across our schedule. This includes our peak 0700-0900 hours with Terry Christian, and the Allan Beswick Phone In. At other times, you'll hear carefully selected songs from your generation of music – alongside current songs that fit our sound.
Terry, and Conrad Murray, also present three hours of music made in Manchester – from all eras, and including the latest unsigned bands – each Saturday night from 10.

BBC RADIO MANCHESTER CURRENT PLAYLIST

Coldplay - The Hardest Part
Embrace - Nature's Law
Sugababes - Red Dress
Beverley Knight - Piece Of My Heart
Jack Johnson - Better Together
KT Tunstall - Another Place To Fall
James Blunt - Wisemen
The Feeling - Sewn
Madonna - Sorry
Corinne Bailey Rae - Put Your Records On

Does "carefully selected songs" mean songs that they don't have to pay any PRS fees or ones that don't stir any waves?

Looking at the new schedules, the only shows to suffer the axe seem to be the Folk and the Country shows (shows that played music). The other Minority Community Shows are still there in either another format in the 6-30pm slot for half an hour or on Saturday nights.

Football tonight anyway at 8-00pm - there's a surprise.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 04:40 PM

Well, that's that then! I enjoyed my last programme because we chose our favourite artists and tracks. But I did feel very emotional, especially playing Derek Gifford's closing song (Song for the Road).

Anyway, I'm looking forward now to starting work for Radio Brit Folk - as soon as Bernard gets his studio finished!!

Thanks for all the support and the fantastic messages!
Ali xx

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 05:58 PM

Ali will, no doubt, be reporting to you all soon, but please be patient. Whilst we were on air, her father had a fall and was rushed to hospital, and has a broken hip. She went to the hospital straight from the studios, so posting to Mudcat isn't exactly high on her list of priorites right now.

Thanks, everyone, for all your messages of support whilst we were on air, it gave us a warm feeling knowing so many of you were out there.

Clogger, if you (or anyone else) wants a copy of the last broadcast, send a stamped addressed jiffy bag to me and I'll post a copy out to you on CD. The 140mm x 195mm size is right for a CD in a plastic wallet, and only costs the same to post as an ordinary letter (Mainland UK).

Bernard Cromarty
56 Rawson Street
Farnworth
BL4 7RJ

Alternatively, post an empty memory card (I can handle any type) of 64Mb or greater, and I'll send it back with the programme in MP3 format. At 53Mb it would be too much to email...

The end of an era...

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 03:36 PM

To Ali, Bernard and all concerned.... THANKS
Unfortunately I could not listen "live" due to work commitments so I missed "the last one"
On an angrier note,let's not forget to write to the M.P.'s!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 04:35 AM

Ali's last show tonight (and the Parlour and GMR Country)
Please email her with your support [e-mail]

Sad times

Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:08 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 02:53 PM

It was a great programme Ali, you and Bernard and all the other swho worked for presented and appeared on it did a great job. I gues we will all move on and poor ols chip on the shoulder will not, such is not much life

Les in Seatle-cum-Hardy

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 01:59 PM

To "Guest" you may be "one of the little people" but you've got a hell of a chip on your shoulder!! I've always had a committment to showcasing local artists or artists appearing in the area - if you fall into that category, my apologies. If not, perhaps there's a folk programme in your area?

Every week at GMR I have a pigeonhole full of CD's, and more arrive at home - at present I've around 30 - 40 waiting for me to listen to; there just isn't time in the day.
I never actually "request" CD's; if someone asks if they can send one, I never turn them down. I rarely turn artists away wanting to do interviews either. Over the past 3 years I've interviewed local, national and international artists, and some quite obscure! Some were selected by Laura and Jenny, the young people on the team, or by Bernard of course.

I spend around 5/6 hours per week preparing the show (I'm in the middle of it now) and try to present a diverse range of music. Some of the tracks I'm not keen on, but then, I'm not playing them for my benefit am I?

As for the "upper echelons", that's the artists, not the presenters! We merely facilitate. The "heroes" are the singers, musicians, poets -young and old, local and from far afield, male and female, soloists and groups, well known and unheard of etc.. And the "ivory towers" - have you seen our studios?!!!

On a happier note, I've been asked to present a 3rd programme - this time for Oldham Radio Cavell. I just wish I could afford to give up my day job!

Ali

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 09:14 AM

From the press release issued by BBC Press Office on 17.03.06.

" Radio Manchester will increase its commitment to cover Manchester�s cultural, business and entertainment worlds, alongside its reputation for top quality and dependable news, sport, weather and traffic.

Community programmes are also being given a higher profile within the station's output."

Compare and contrast:-

The Irish Post reported on March 08 2006 that..."The village of Levenshulme in south Manchester has responded with fury after their local BBC radio station revealed it wanted to end Britain�s longest running Irish radio show.

Gay News reported on March 14 2006 that..."Gay men and women in the Greater Manchester area are furious. On Thursday March 30, the shutters will come down on Gaytalk, a 30-minute magazine radio programme that first went on the air ten years ago.

The programme is thought to be the only radio programme specifically aimed at the gay community in the UK...Also going are other niche programmes like Eastern Horizon, the bilingual Chinese and English programme which first aired December 1983 when the radio station was Radio Manchester, and the long-running The Parlour aimed at the Irish community.

In swingeing cuts, ordered by new GMR editor John Ryan, even the station�s Asian programming goes."

In an update on the campaign Gay News reports that local MPs have given their support, noting also that "Other weekly shows in danger include popular Jewish show It�s Kosher..."

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 08:58 AM

I believe the band in question sre from Seatle USA.

However, we have many fine singers, musicians and song writers from Seattle on Medlock, Seattle-cum-Hardy, not to mention Seattle on Mersey, Seattle o' th' Barn, Seattle Hole Clough, Seattle Platting, Seattle o' th'Hebers and Seattle-Under-Lyne.

And any of this fine crew could have offered something more appropriate

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 08:13 AM

MPs are well aware of what's going on at GMR

http://rochdalelibdems.org.uk/news/89.html

Write to your MP

Contact your MP

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 05:03 AM

Anahata: i wondered if it was misprint for "Settle", the sort of place successful Manchester musicians might relocate to.
    But seriously, it did seem a bit silly for a radio station to establish its identity by getting in music from Seattle,though perhaps it was to empahasise Manchester's glabal connections? But you would think, wouldn't you, that a city that can produce seven different tunes called the Manchester Hornpipe, and the Hacienda Club, would be capable of coming up with a suitable jingle for its local radio station.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 04:16 AM

Like others I've been writing to the BBC, and am still awaiting a reply from Ryan to my latest, but a thought occurs.. There is obviously a gap between the BBCs 'new' mandate and what's happening at local level. That's a matter for politicians as much as BBC middle management. As it happens I had a meeting with my MP about various folkie things last week, and it struck me that MPs always respond best to issues within their own constituency, for obvious reasons. Are you Manchester people writing to your MPs about this?

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: treewind
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 03:51 AM

"specialist programmes will no longer be broadcast outside of peak listening times but will be given an enhanced position at the heart of the schedule"

Remember that lads - next time you want to dump a girlfriend tell her you've given her an enhanced position at the heart of your schedule.

And I'm sure the citizens of Manchester, with all its artistic and cultural diversity, are proud to know the BBC have gone to a band from Seattle for the new jingle set to represent their city.

(or is "Seattle" the name of a Mancunian suburb of which I was previously unaware?)

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 03:26 AM

Just had this back from BBC info:

Dear Mr Dowding

Thank you for your e-mail regarding BBC GMR.

I understand that you are unhappy that the station intends to change its programming content and focus on talk-based output as opposed to community or specialist music related broadcasts.

Please be assured that your comments on this matter will be fully registered and made available to production team and indeed senior management within the BBC. Feedback of this nature helps us when making decisions about future BBC programmes and services and your views will most certainly play a part in this process.

For the latest news on the changes, you may wish to visit the official GMR website in the coming weeks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/gmr/index.shtml

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.

Regards

Jonathan Carberry
BBC Information

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,Blowzabella sans cookie
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 12:47 PM

Those comments from the Press Office take some taking in, Mark - it reads exactly opposite to what the actuality is going to be!! Talk abput propaganda!

Blowz - Another victim of 'policy change'

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 08:12 AM

Just seen this on the BBC Press Office: BBC Press Office
Comments to the usual address please.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 07:55 AM

"And some people seem to be never off the programme! Perhaps thats why they are so upset!"

Let's assume "Guest" - whoever he or she is - is talking about me. I've been on the programme five times in the 3 years that it's been running. I've "used" the programme as a communication point to talk about and bring attention to the Four Fools Festival in 2004, Ormskirk Comes Alive festival in 2005 using tracks from various CDs to showcase the guest artists, 2 musical projects that have highlighted Manchester's past history (2004 and 2005) and most recently at the end of February to give attention to my new CD and also to talk about the late great Harry Boardman with John Howarth of the Oldham Tinkers - both of us at different times were inspired by Harry to look at the music and tradition of where we live and without whom, the North West wouldn't have so vibrant a folk scene - if a folk scene at all. Now if that isn't what local radio is about then I don't know what it is for. I am upset for people like Ali and Bernard who run a fine show every week and now find that an institution like the BBC doesn't have the nous to realise that they have pockets of listeners - not just for the folk show but the other shows now shortly to go - that will not now be tuning in - it's their loss. The good thing is that it is Radio Britfolk and Community Radio's gain and if Ali will have me on her new show at any time I'd be delighted to go on it.

Of course it may not have been me "Guest" was talking about!

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 07:39 AM

I wonder if stallion can tell us - does a "hit" via the internet simply consist on clicking on the programme and listening for a minute or two?

I can´t see it working any other way in fact - but it does mean we could organise a "clicking evening" amongst ourselves and make some programmes popular!!

The downside of that is that programmes might go "internet only"!!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: stallion
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 07:16 AM

mmmmmmm, ivory towers, I don't think so. Without getting into "what is folk", I suppose programmes content is decided by the producer/presenter and what is available, and, at the end of the day, if the audience figures are not there they only have themselves to blame. If however there is a strong following then irate letters to the station may help but not in my experience. Folk, to me, is what is going in the clubs and pubs when there isn't a headline act, although a most enjoyable pastime unfortunately this doesn't make good radio. I think Micheal Brothwell's "North Yorkshire Folk" is having a good stab at it and the listening figures, particularly on the internet, are good, in another sense very good, the number "hits" on the site is quantifiable evidence to support the continuation of the folk genre on radio. Perhaps then we ought to spread the "blue clicky" to as many people as possible to make sure the audience figures "go forth and Multiply"! (sorry can someone do the blue clicky thing, I always seem to mess it up!)

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 07:07 AM

And some people seem to be never off the programme! Perhaps thats why they are so upset!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,one of the little people
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 06:09 AM

Hmmm, I find it difficult to feel too much sympathy. A few months ago (at her own request) I sent this woman a demo CD of mine, and she didn't even do me the courtesy of an acknowledgment. I wouldn't have minded at all if she'd just said, I won't play this because I think it's shit; but not to respond at all was pretty off. Too many people in the upper echelons of the folk establishment have this indifferent attitude towards grass-roots talent; and I'm pleased to see one of those knocked off their perch. What goes around tends to come around...maybe there's a lesson there?

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 05:00 PM

Thanks jojoetc - good idea. Although I do go to quite a few (the Open Door Extravaganza on Sunday was wonderful), it won't be quite the same as presenting my own programme, will it?
Ali

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 02:32 PM

While not wishing to rub salt etc., John Ryan was in the Isle of Man on Friday March 10th in his capacity as Chairman of the North West Branch of the Radio Academy. He was there to present Manx Radio with the 'Radio Academy Nations and Regions Award for Best Radio Station in the Northwest of England' (Geography is another thing.......!)
It's an award to stations with less than 300,000 listeners.
The citation reads, 'Manx Radio lived up to its unique position and status through passion, drive and ambition to be a truly local broadcaster and didn't sit on its laurels. Impressive diversity of scheduling and a high level of commitment to local news and communities. Exemplary range of current affairs, specialist music interests and sports.'

Something that his own radio station seems to be abandoning!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 02:25 PM

ALIO

You ask What will you do in the evenings now???

Well, I can say definitely

Why Not Try and actually GO TO A FOLK CLUB???


You need to get out more !!!

Have a good one

Jo jo
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:58 AM

Got my reply (eventualy!) from Mr Ryan -

Thanks for your comments concerning Sounds of Folk.
This programme is coming to an end as the station is withdrawing from all specialist music shows to concentrate on our core talk-based programming.

Plans are being made to ensure a weekly slot elsewhere in our programming with news of folk performance in Greater Manchester, and some live acoustic performances.

Thanks again for taking the trouble to email.
John Ryan
Managing Editor
BBC GMR

I am going to forward it to my MP and to Tessa Jowell to ask if this infringes the remit that the BBC got when their charter was renewed - Ie to provide more entertainment. Unless of course the masses think that chat and drivel is entertaining..?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:41 PM

I already wrote to complaints and phoned and got the reply I posted above.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:16 PM

Although going to the top is usually my way of getting a complaint sorted out, Michael Grade is a governer of the BBC and is not the right person to address complaints to. Have a read of this part of the BBC site
http://www.bbcgovernors.co.uk/about/dontdo.html

According to the BBC site, this is the way to start complaining
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

If enough people complain through the proper channels then the proper people get to know what our disgruntlement is - strength in numbers type of approach.

There is an appeals procedure in which the Governers do get involved.

In the first instance complain through BBC information - put your points clearly and don't be rude! If we start getting the same reply then write again complaining about "standard replies"

Have fun!

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: stallion
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 02:40 PM

Micheal Brothwell, radio york, puts out "North Yorkshire Folk", it's a one hour show shortly to be extended to two hours. In so far as last week it was getting the most "hits" on the "listen again" facility on the web site. I think money is the root cause of the problem. His is a reasonably low budget show, most of us waiving the performing rights fee. (otherwise you don't get on!. He does get to speak to some "known performers" supplemented by locals. Just about anyone with a cd to promote would be considered.
It's intrigueing that other folk programmes are being pulled when others are expanding? (well at lewast one!)

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 02:17 PM

Just preparing my last show now - a really weird feeling. I've no idea how I'm going to get through next Monday without getting very upset! This was my baby!!!

Ali

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 12:32 PM

I am currently away from the UK and may have made this point before - but I do believe it is worth re-iterating and those of you writing emails especially to Michael Grade, might like to consider mentioning it.

In the early days of what people call the folk revival in the time of the mid-late sixties in particular, I and many others wrote to the BBC asking for more folk music on radio.

The answer we invariably got from the BBC was that the "real place" for folk music was on local radio - where it could reflect the community it served, their singers, their musicians and their tastes. Virtually all local radio staions had a folk programme indeed the one at Radio Sheffield was produced by John Leonard, now Smooth Operations /Mike Harding Show.

The history of amalgamations in two areas, Sussex and Sheffield areas is listed above, and those programmes are gone for ever.

The real disgrace is that people are not allowed to refer to the fact that the show is being axed. That just shows how confident they are that they have reached the correct decision.

But congratulations to those still flying the flag, there is loads of good stuff to listen to on the internet - and thanks for all the hard work the others have done.

Anyone got an email for Michael Grade?

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 08:17 AM

Spooky! People have had a virtually identical 'response' from John Ryan...

GMR isn't the first, and it looks as if it won't be the last to get this 'talk-based core programming' crap... unless something is done.

Like I said - Michael Grade is probably the person to target.

We also need to find out who else in the pecking order we can bombard with complaints. The only way they are going to have their corporate 'mind' changed is to be shown how deep the feelings run, and how damaging to their audience figures this action could be.

Local radio needs to present not only local folk music, but other subjects of local interest. 'Mainstreaming' such things not only dilutes the quality and quantity, but also takes the focus away.

A specific programme at a specific time each week gives people a focus. It is the way many people think - 'I must tune in at 8:00pm for my programme'... 'I Haven't a Clue' is a prime example cited on their own website... are they planning to axe that an assimilate it into 'talk-based core programming'. Don't be daft!

GMR had an ideal programming sequence every Monday which encouraged people to stay tuned longer than just their specific programme of interest - 'The Parlour' at 7:00pm, a 'magazine' programme aimed at the Irish community, 'Sounds of Folk' at 8:00pm (you know about that one!) and 'GMR Country' at 9:00pm with local Country music, news and interviews.

Three hours of fairly diverse interests - yet I know many people who tuned in at seven and stayed right through to ten. It's almost as if it was planned that way...

Can anyone explain to me why the Beeb thought that needed changing?

Perhaps the wider picture is the direction in which our complaints should be addressed? The powers-that-be may see Folk as a niche market, which they may choose not to take seriously... but putting three niche markets together makes a stronger case.

It seems to me the programmers haven't quite as good a grasp on what people want as they arrogantly think they have... admirably demonstrated by their decision (again!) to take Fred Fielder's Sunday programme off air. They tried that unsuccessfully once before...! Worse still, this time they are replacing him with... Becky Want... I used to listen to Fred, but Becky? No thanks!!

They are making dodgy decisions at our expense - we pay their wages with our licence fee...

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:17 AM

And her is the response from BBC head office

This programme is coming to an end as the station is withdrawing from all specialist music shows to concentrate on core talk-based programming.

Plans are being made to ensure a weekly slot elsewhere in their programming with news of folk performance in Greater Manchester, and some live acoustic performances.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your views on this matter.

Regards

Katherine Tsang
BBC Information

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:29 AM

I've had a reply from Oldham Community Radio. They've been granted a five year license and will begin broadcasting in the autumn. They are delighted that Ali and the team will be part of their programming as they feel that that folk music has a genuine niche in the area (The BBC obviously doesn't have the same views).
Simultaneous webstreaming is something they are looking at and "listen again" facilities will be considered - it all depends on how much money the various copyright organisations want from them. Early days yet but they will keep me posted and I'm sure Ali and Bernard will let us know more details when they become available.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Bernard
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:19 AM

Perhaps a few emails in Michael Grade's direction...?

It would seem that the Beeb are twisting the remit of their charter - and we are their employers via the license fee.

Why, oh why, oh why (to coin a phrase!) should they be allowed to turn all local radio stations into 'chat-based' garbage that most intelligent people won't want to hear?

I thought the renewed charter was granted with the proviso that they concentrate on 'quality programming' and 'entertainment'. Chat doesn't really fit in either category.

There was a time when the Beeb led the way...

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alan Day
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 05:53 PM

A very fine programme it was too Jim.You and Vick put a lot of unpaid hours into your programme and many of us folkies in the South East very much appreciated your fine programmes for the BBC.By coincedance I drove past your old BBC studio in Brighton today and looked up to the old studio windows and gave you all a thought.
Keep up the stirling work you are still doing for the love of Folk
Music,I can assure you both and Tina that it is and has been very much appreciated.
Al

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,Jim Marshall
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:32 PM

I had a strange feeling of deja vu on reading about the axing of the Manchester folk programme.
In the dim and distant past, Vic Smith and I presented a long-running folk programme, Minstrels Gallery", on BBC Radio Brighton which went on to become BBC Radio Sussex, then BBC Radio Sussex & Surrey and currently BBC Southern Counties Radio.
We were dumped in exactly the same way, along with the jazz, country and other specialist programmes. No advance warning, not even a word of thanks for the 20 or more years we'd been doing the show. They said they were going to change to a speech-based station, with no music whatsoever. They even said that they'd done research which showed that was what listeners actually wanted, but they eventually brought back music on record, but no specialist shows and no live music. Nowadays it's almost all 'phone ins and pop music!
Our show was pre-recorded but for those shows which went out live, they had engineers standing by to take the presenters off the air if they said anything untoward about the loss of programmes. What a way to run a radio station!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:09 PM

It doesn't even look as if I'd be allowed to play tracks from artists CD's does it?

Oh well, we'll be starting presenting fortnightly shows for Radio BritFolk in April, so as one door slams....etc..

Ali

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: breezy
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:00 PM

BBC are very poor at promoting Folk as we know it.

Some of the content is too political

hence Harvey Andrews was 'blacklisted ' long ago, as is Vin Garbutt

As for Jeremy Taylor, well need you ask?

Why do you think these artistes are never given air time even on 'middle of the road folk show ' such as the Irish patronising Folk on 2.

its ground that local non-BBC stations could capitalise upon


Go on. play em The Sandman , and I dare you not to cry.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,AlanG
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 02:41 PM

Looks like we all got the the same standard reply from John Ryan. I've told him what I think of his decision but I'm sure it won't do any good. The grown-ups at the BBC want talk based programming and they don't give a stuff what the listeners want.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 11:04 AM

E-mail received from John Ryan and my reply, not that it will do any good.

John
Thats not really good enough is it. The BBC is for the community and whether you think so or not, folk music has a big influence in the community.
I think your decision is disgraceful and you really do not deserve to be Managing Editor BBC GMR Greater Manchester Radio.
I sincerely hope that your new ideas go down the pan together with you.
Disgusted
Les Worrall
http://www.marketrasenfolkclub.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: John Ryan
To: Les Worrall
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: Sounds of Folk


Thanks for your comments concerning Sounds of Folk.

This programme is coming to an end as the station is withdrawing from all specialist music shows to concentrate on our core talk-based programming.

Plans are being made to ensure a weekly slot elsewhere in our programming with news of folk performance in Greater Manchester, and some live acoustic performances.

Thanks again for taking the trouble to email.

John Ryan
Managing Editor
BBC GMR Greater Manchester Radio

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,J Boyle
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 09:21 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:33 AM

Ow do Mark

Thanks fert welcome - good to hear from you again too. The OCR website looks a bit out of date, which is not very encouraging. But I'll drop 'em an email to see what's what. If I hear owt back from them I'll report back.

Cheers

Owd Scrump

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:15 AM

Ey up Owd Scrump - Good to have you on here!

This is the link you want for more info:

http://www.oldhamcommunityradio.com/

I've emailed them to make further enquiries but it won't harm for more people to let them know we await the programme with baited breath.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,Owd Scrump
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 09:23 AM

I've only just heard the sad news. Although I don't live in the GMR area I often listen in on t'web.

This type of programme is just what local community radio should be used for. It'll be a great loss. And as others have said, it's a daft decision just when folk music is becoming more popular - and even 'cool' some say - than it's been since the 1960s and '70s.

Best of luck to Ali and the team, thanks for all t'fish, and I hope we'll hear from you again wherever you end up (is Owdham Community Radio on t'web?)

Cheers

Owd Scrump

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: breezy
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 07:34 AM

If you are going out live , go out with a bang, or noone will notice

re The Sandman as done by Mike Agranoff, hey why not feature it anyway!!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 05:17 AM

I've sent an email to Oldham Community Radio to thank them for taking Ali and Bernard on board. I'll be giving them publicity on the Folk North West website when the time comes.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 02:58 PM

Mark, thanks for clarifying that; as I said I can't receive GMR reliably so I had listened to a copy of the programme about Paul Graney which I mistakenly assumed had been broadcast on Sounds of Folk.

Your own project is very much another case in point though; the Manchester Ballads are part of the very fabric of the city and its history. As you say, Sounds of Folk helped to bring them to the attention of a wider public. Harry Boardman wanted these songs to be 'out there' where people could learn about their own stories. He would be furious to learn that the BBC is turning its back on them.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 01:59 PM

I don't think the Paul Graney programme was a "Sounds of Folk" production - it was done by someone else at GMR but Matthew's point is a good one. Whether the new remit of BBC Radio Talk Till We Drop will continue to commission these types of programmes remains to be seen. Paul Graney was someone I'd heard and read about on LP covers ("Song supplied by Paul Graney" "Thanks to Paul Graney for the words of this song", etc) but knew little about. This documentary was excellent in bringing Paul's work to the fore and I've since been in touch with the guy who's been doing the digitising of the tapes and documents for archiving. Hopefully there will be more information about what is happening to the files and how we can access them in due course.

Community Radio is fine for the immediate area around the transmitter and they do a good job but for broadcasting to a wider audience the BBC holds the trump cards and now they've just thrown their hand in!

I wish Ali and Bernard all the best at Oldham and Britfolk if it goes ahead - Britfolk Radio is streamed on the web so at least we can listen in once a month - the programmes are also archived and accessible by subscription after a week or so after transmission. Not sure about Community Radio - AllFM can be heard on the internet - from what "Community Collage" presenter Geli was saying on Sunday when I was there, they have quite a following in Bombay with one of the presenters! Their immediate transmission area is Levenshulme, Longsight and Ardwick although when conditions are right it can be picked up further afield.

Things must move on and there at least seems to be a future for folk broadcasting in one form or another.

I'd like to thank Ali and Bernard for the chance they've given me to bring the projects that I've been involved in over the past few years to a larger audience than I could have got without the show - The "Harry Boardman" and "Manchester Ballads" projects have been popular when Chris Harvey and I have performed the songs thanks in no small part to "Sounds of Folk"

Let's look forward to the future - there may be one at the BBC in time but at least there are other opportunities available.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 01:09 PM

Out in the wilds of Wirral it isn't easy to listen to GMR but I've managed to catch some of the 'Sounds of Folk' programmes. I was very impressed by the programme about Paul Graney's collection of tapes from the 1950's onwards; not only were these a fascinating collection of songs and music, but they also were invaluable documents of social history including memories of hunger marchers in the 1930's. I felt moved enough to send a small donation to the Paul Graney Memorial Folk Trust at the Greater Manchester County Record Office, whose website has more information about the Paul Graney Project which aims to preserve the tapes.

This seemed to me a perfect example of the BBC fulfilling its public service remit; here is a programme which presents material of interest to all the community. In its place Manchester will now be served with cheap "drivetime" talk shows - no doubt the rest of the country can expect the same in the future.

Good luck to Ali and Bernard, and thanks for all you have achieved with Sounds of Folk.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alan Day
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 12:31 PM

I understand from good authority that Folk Music is starting to become cool in some areas and we could be looking at another Folk revival.
If this is the case the BBC programmers will have to come creeping back cap in hand and start all these programmes again.It would be lovely to tell them to F Off but for the good of Folk I suppose we shall have to go with it.I hope it happens quickly.
Al

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 09:32 AM

So, the new folk revival is starting(BBC Folk Britannia) so we'll close down the folk shows(BBC GMR). Grand to know they've got some clever people at the tiller.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:57 AM

I've had some wonderful emails - loads of support from around the world, which is great.

I think the options I'll be given will be very limited - in his letter John Ryan only talks about clubs and events. No mention of music at all! I really wouldn't want to be part of anything as prescriptive as that...but I'll wait to see what he has to offer.

On the last programme, we have got just 1 interview to do (David Wright of Lancaster Maritime Festival) but we'll also be playing some of our favourite tracks from the 3 years of the programme.

I'm sure I will be very emotional....but also looking forward to the move to Oldham Community Radio.

Ali x

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: treewind
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:27 AM

Re Bernard's BBC news link...
One photo caption on that page read:
"BBC Radio 4's I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue was praised in the White Paper"
Sums up the BBC management quite well, I think!

Sorry to hear about your show Ali, and more power to your collective creative elbows on the new Radio Britfolk show - getting some professional programme makers on board means GMR's loss is RBF's gain! (no disrepect to Genevieve who's done some already for RBF, a few more can't do any harm)

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 01:41 AM

Sorry it should have said "Just so that everybody understands"

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 01:08 AM

Just so that everybody unstands and doesn't drop the two of you in it.

Can we complain to anybody, and how much can we say - or should we stay mum on this ?

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:58 PM

So it's going to be Sport and Spout radio from now on!

I shall be registering my official protest with John Ryan and telling him he's lost a listener. No doubt he won't give a proverbial as he's done the job he was probably brought in for.

The interesting thing will be what options will be available to Ali and Bernard after the last programme.

I did a spot on AllFM on Sunday - they want and encourage specialist music - more than the BBC obviously want!

Go out with a bang team! Tell the listeners officially at the beginning of the programme and wait for the emails to come in.

Mark

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: andrewq
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:43 PM

Sorry that the wreckers have got at the show. Babble is cheaper than a quality music show, no doubt. Thanks to Ali and Bernard for all your hard work. I've really enjoyed listening.

On a positive note....
Time now to start praising those other local BBC folk shows while we still have them. Just up the road in Blackburn, Phil Brown has been making a very good job of The Drift on BBC Radio Lancashire. Perhaps e-mails of support to his station manager ([e-mail]) would encourage that station to continue supporting his show? He seems quite enthusiastic at the moment, so let's provide a bit of encouragement to stay that way! If you're not from the area you can listen live on the web on Thursday evenings (and on the Sunday repeat). The Drift is shortly to be available on the BBC's Listen Again player for 7 days after broadcast. (Martyn Joseph did a splendid concert for the whole show last week.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/lancashire/

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:41 PM

So what does this really mean?!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:18 PM

My worry now is that it isn't going to stop here... Genevieve and all the others must also be at risk... the rot must be stopped - and quickly.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:10 PM

My thoughts exactly... though I haven't said it, you understand...!!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:09 PM

"that makes them accountable"
Dont make me laugh! The whole setup STINKS!
Theoreticaly WE own the Beeb .... but it must be keped secret from US untill too late! Even Beswick would not let anyone talk about it beforehand..... but the decision has just been made?
The only concilation, is that Folkies have a long memory and although we tend to be quiet, we do hold opinions! Maybe a "letter to my local M.P." would do some good? worth a try anyway!
All the best Alli + Bernard
yours 1 naffed off folk1e

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: nutty
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:40 PM

So sorry to hear this news.

BUT, I keep wondering why there is a need for secrecy, unless they know that what they ae doing will be unpopular with the public at large or else the management are trying to appear more important than they really are.

This is not a matter of state .... What are the press saying about this??
Sounds like Folk is not the only programme affected.

Sod the management .....this is a community Radio and the Community should be able to have its say.

Sod the management (again) we all pay a license fee ....that makes them accountable, in which case they should be prepared to answer questions.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:31 PM

We aren't at liberty to reveal the 'new' name GMR will have, though the words 'Radio' and 'Manchester' feature heavily... and 'Greatewr' has been relegated to obscurity!

A giant leap - backwards!! Either it will cost a fortune to 're-brand', or they have been saving all the old letterheads, etc., for such an eventuality.

How can they justify their actions in the light of the recent negotiations for retaining the licence fees for another ten years?

I'm still at a loss the understand why we had to wait to be told two weeks before our last broadcast, when decisions like this are made months, probably years in advance.

Answers on a postcard...

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:32 PM

Yes, that's exactly what Henry Ayrton was forced into when his show was axed by BBC North (Leeds/Sheffield)... don't tell the listeners. History repeats itself in the most insidious way don't it?

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:17 PM

This is on the understanding that you make no reference to the programme changes on the air until your final programme

Or in other words "Make no attempt to let listeners demonstrate support for your programme, or you are out now." Such confidence on the part of management that they are doing the right thing.

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:15 PM

Svinehunds.

One door closes and another opens.

Good luck for the future Ali and Bernard

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:01 PM

So very sad indeed.
Much sympathy to Ali & Bernard - thanks for all your sterling good service.
You know you have my full support for whatever you can produce next.
The very best of luck to you.
Duncan

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:41 PM

Bugger!

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:31 PM

Cheers MM - tho' whether me and my team resemble a phoenix, I'm not sure!! Possibly Bernard?

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:23 PM

Ali,
Sorry to hear the inevitable but there we go.
But very well done for keeping the folk flag flying so strongly, and I'm sure some kind of phoenix will rise from the ashes (cricketing metaphor - lost on a determinedly non-sports-minded sensible folky audience!)...
Luv ya!
MM
x

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: DebC
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:19 PM

Ali,

I am so sorry to hear this. I know I speak for many artists when I say thanks for all that you have done for us on your show.

See you at Lancaster,
Debra

Subject: RE: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:09 PM

So, thanks for everything, it was a great programme and it will be much missed. Hard to see how:

"The station is withdrawing from specialist music shows to concentrate on our core talk-based programming"

will add to the utter joy of GMR - what ever it is to be called. I guess north Manchester will talk tripe to south Manchester with odd jewels of whit and wisdom, so few programmes are as good as Beswick.

Subject: Folk Programme Axed!
From: Alio
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 01:25 PM

If you've been following the other thread, this will come as no surprise I suspect.

I received this letter today from John Ryan, Managing Editor for BBC GMR (soon to be called something different!!):

The time has come to announce the future of evening programming on BBC GMR. I know there has been much speculation recently following preliminary discussions, and I wanted to let you know as soon as a final decision was made (I don't believe he knew only 2 weeks before the end of March!!).
I am sorry to tell you that we will have no further requirement for Sounds of Folk. The station is withdrawing from specialist music shows to concentrate on our core talk-based programming.
We would like to find a way of reflecting Folk events and clubs in the output (no mention of music then?). I will call you soon to see if you would like to maintain a a paid relationship with the station to achieve this.
I would like your show to continue up to and including the end of March. This is on the understanding that you make no reference to the programme changes on the air until your final programme (there may not be a show next week anyway because of football!!).
I know this has been a tricky and uncertain period for everyone involved in specialist and community programming on BBC GMR, and that losing your show will be a blow.
Thank you for the hard work and effort you have invested in Sounds of Folk.

So there you have it! Very sad - what will I do now with my evenings? I normally spend 2 /3 of them preparing the show, emailing artists, finding out about all the diary dates etc.! The good news is that my team and I have been invited to do a regular programme for Radio Brit Folk, and also a weekly programme for the new Oldham Community Radio station from the autumn.

Thanks everyone for all your support.

Ali x