BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc

Subject: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: skarpi
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:06 PM

Well, helló all.

Since 1941 the Us Naval have been in Iceland and had our defence
in the air , today they told us that Mr Bush is closen down
the Naval air force baxe in Keflavík Iceland, that means that we don´t
have any defence over Icelandic airspace, we had four jets F-15
and two helecopters the 56th s&r a great unit , the best
s&r in the Navy for many years .

So I am thinking and asking this question is Mr Bush
going into Iran??
They told us also that they need those jets elsewhere.

This is just a silly thought from a worryman in the Atlantic.

All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:09 PM

Probably.

But if he doesn't, the next president will.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:14 PM

Iceland needn't worry because the US will have bases to fly from in Iraq and the Indian Ocean (carriers). Iceland was important because of the GIUK Gap and the need to have land-based fighter coverage for convoys replenishing supplies to NATO forces in Europe, but since the Cold War is not anymore, you'll be fine there. Iran might be in for a little excitement, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:41 PM

More excitement than anyone would ask for...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:00 PM

I don't think so, Skarpi. The US forces are stretched awfully thin right now, and a new combat theater would make them snap.

Consider this:

Reservists and National Guard people aren't re-enlisting or, for that matter, enlisting. This means that about 40% of the military is losing people, experienced people. The same thing is happening in the active forces, so much so that they have put in a "stop loss" program so that "critical" people can't go home from Iraq or Afghanistan when they were told they could. Even the generals and admirals are concerned about what is called "force strength." Some reserve units have been deployed overseas as often as three times in the last five years.

To go into Iran would mean that Bush would have to institute a draft, a move which would take Congressional approval and I don't think he'd get it because it would be political suicide. He wouldn't have the chance of a snowball in Hel of avoiding possible impeachment, because the people would elect a Congress that would be opposed to Bush.

To go into Iran would also mean that the military would be fighting a war on THREE fronts, and not even during WW2 did the US do that.

It's simply not possible at this time.

Should, however, someone explode a nuclear bomb on the US or some equally catastropic event happen all bets are off.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:16 PM

What with what's happening in Palestine (the Israelis breaking into a prison etc!) and the Palestinians running out of international friends due to Hamas winning the democratic process that the USA has been demanding they have, Iran will offer several thousand troops on the ground to 'defend the Palestinians from the aggressive Isrealies'...

To save face, the USA will then just HAVE to beat up on Iran... and having spent all that money on micro nukes, they will just HAVE to be used...

So bend over, put your head between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:51 PM

If Shrub & company could figure out a way to pounce on Iran I think they would. That said, I don't think they can at this point in time. As to the US pulling out Iceland, it may be a blessing. We probably aren't worth the rent anymore. We're probably gonna start attracting international abuse, if not all ready, from locals as well as others anywhere we are presently based if we continue to piss the world off. So seeing us leave may be cause for rejoicing.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:57 PM

I just tried, Foolestroupe, and no matter how hard I try...I just can't bend over quite that far.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 08:09 PM

Ask someone to help, LH. Bush, for example . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:43 PM

I tried too. Now I have a hernia and can't straighten up.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:49 PM

It's National Hernia Week, Rapaire. Give it your support.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 12:03 AM

Little Hawk, did you try to do it forwards?

Well, that's your problem then. Most Americans seem to be able to bend over backwards for their political system, corruptions and all.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 12:15 AM

Robin,

I don't think Little Hawk wants to be counted amongst Americans just now.

People have been predicting nuclear final scenarios since 1951. Number of actual catastrophic nuclear warhead explosions = 0. Number of panicked predictions of doom from nuclear warheads going off = 2.872 x 10^4. Go figger.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 12:19 AM

It'll happen sooner or later Amos, you know what they say about boys and their toys - "Use 'em or lose 'em!"

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: kendall
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:36 AM

Peace, that statement about hernias belongs in the Quotable quots thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Alba
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 09:21 AM

Halló Skarpi don't hafa áhyggjur , Runni hefur neitun Liðsflutningaskip til hátta stríð með Íran og neitun tími eða stuðningur frá 62% af Ameríkumaður!
Hann hefur neitun Liðsflutningaskip , neitun stuðningur frá hans eiga Veisla eða Ameríkumaður. hann vilja vera í 2008 og þá amybe Friður vilja koma aftur til the Veröld:)

Love to You and Yours as always Icelanderman and I hope to play a few tunes with you at the Getaway this Year

Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 10:06 AM

I wouldn't be so sure of Bush and Iran, folks. This is from a 29 page report he supposedly "wrote." Look to see the draft reinstituted, he's arrogant enough to believe he can do it, imo:

"If necessary, however, under long-standing principles of self defense, we do not rule out the use of force before attacks occur — even if uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy's attack," Bush wrote.

What an attitude - *we're going to annihilate you before you can even think of getting us!*

Skarpi, good to hear from you. It is embarrassing and shameful that we have such an idiot at the head of our government. My sincere apologies to you and your fellow countrymen, for his idiocy and policy of fear.

Ast,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 10:09 AM

shhhhh! No one in America is supposed to tell! We're keepin' it a surprise!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 10:27 AM

Look at the country's geography. It would be a cast-iron sonuvabitch to get into that place with ground troops (just ask the Russians about Afghanistan). The only thing that would make sense is either chemical/biological warfare, otherwise the loss of American troops would quickly reach 'unacceptable' levels. The alternative is the assassination of its leadership or some other form of destabilization. Nukes are a no-go because of the terrain. More damned mountains than Carter had liver pills.

Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:34 AM

Peace,

You miss the point that one or two 100KT devices, in the oil fields would remove Iran from all significance to the world...


It would take decades, if not longer, to put the fires out.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:37 AM

All of the arguments in your 16 Mar 06 - 10:27 AM post were being made about Afghanistan just prior to our invasion of it, Peace (and of course, we are there still).

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:47 AM

You are both correct (BB and CC). I didn't say the US wouldn't. I suggested it would be foolish. The nuclear strike that BB mentions is one scenario, but it kinda leaves the place unusable, and that wouldn't be the thing the US would want. It's not about a 'defensive' first strike; it's about the conquest and subsequent utilization of the land, IMO. However, I have been wrong before. Incidentally, Canada has troops in Afghanistan also. We are not any smarter than y'all.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:53 AM

Peace,

So, what part of Iran does the US supposedly want to utilize? I sort of thought that the problem was the potential actions of the Iranian government that were causing all the concern.

They sell the oil to other countries, not the US. That might be why those countries don't want the UN to take any effective action....

Sort of like Iraq- Just look at who was/is making money from the present situation, and you will see who objects to anything being done to require compliance with UN resolutions and treaty obligations.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:57 AM

I would think it's within the view of the present US administration to want to run the place and not have to destroy it. Oil's oil. I have no wish to argue this. OK, you're right. It was my opinion, nothing more and nothing less.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 12:56 PM

They have no problem with destroying a country for oil, Peace, as long as they can buy the warlords who run the chaos after we've destroyed it. As long as they have access to the oil, they don't give a poop about what happens to the civilians in the area. Just look at Afghanistan (where we have an oil agenda in the form of pipelines).

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: DougR
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 01:29 PM

I doubt it Skarpi. If it becomes necessary to invade Iran I think it will be a large coalition of forces from many countries. Iran cannot be allowed to have nukes.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 02:01 PM

No one should be allowed to have nukes.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: skarpi
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 02:07 PM

not even the Us ?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 02:23 PM

I just took a vote here in North America, and we expect Canada to turn over the keys to their country to the US next week...


But I may have to start studying Chinese, once the rest of the world votes...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 02:25 PM

LOL

More truth in that than enough, BB.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Justa Picker
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 03:14 PM

Unlike Iraq and Afghanistan (and stretching the troops even more thinly not to mention no public support on the home front) the U.S. cannot go into Iran without strong coalition support and the forumlation of a strong, uniform coalition.

Make no mistake they WILL be going in. (Unfortunately they missed the most opportune window for invasion back in 1980 right after Reagan was elected. Had they gone in then, the US would have had the overwhelming support of the populace. (Payback for the Hostage/Embassy thing and all that.)

The other good window - again missed - was during the 1991 Gulf war. They were right in the neighbourhood and had all of the requiste ground troops and muscle to have gotten the job done. (The whole middle east pretty much needs a military enema anyway.)

But, it's a catch 22. They HAVE to put the current hardline-fundamentalist Iranian regime down and the majority of their youthful population do want them gone, and would love closer ties to the west on many different levels, not to mention culture, trade and commerce.

If they don't, Iran WILL toil and achieve armageddon with a first nuclear strike on Israel, and of course the appropriate nuclear response will immediately follow.

Before that happens though, they WILL export their nuclear technology to Al Qaeda, the west bank and gaza, Syria, Yemen, Sudan .... you get the picture. Course all of those countries have clearly demonstrated that they are rational, secure, abide and adhere to treaties, and would never initiate a first strike on Israel. :-)

And if they do go in, they'll unite all the terrorists even more closely in their various Jihads and attacks on the west.

Expect oil to hit between 150 and 200 dollars a barrel shortly after the invasion begins.

Course the US has only known since the Opec crisis of 72/73 that they shouldn't be depending on foreign oil, nor building a middle eastern foreign policy around such; but hey now that pretty the entire Arab world (and Venezuela) will shut off those taps, they haven't much choice but to finally put some emphasis into alternate fuels. In the meantime the western economies will go to shit.

I don't delude myself into thinking that these opinions would be popular here in the bastien of bleeding heart, leftwing liberalism, but I believe the predictions made will unfortunately come to be, one way or another. You fools should support an administration that will do whatever it takes to safeguard your country from mainland terrorist attacks. Your constitution IS your achilles heel and the terrorists know that as well. It needs to be modernized for the current time we're living in, not based on how civilization was in 1776.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 03:23 PM

oil FACTS

Justa Picker,

No arguement with your statements nor with the conclusions, but I would like to discuss your comment "Your constitution IS your achilles heel ". That document provides the means by which "an administration that will do whatever it takes to safeguard your country from mainland terrorist attacks" can do so. IMO...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Justa Picker
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 03:29 PM

Not quite.

Freedom of speech isn't always a good thing, especially in the interests of National Security/wartime and, have a media reporting things from an oppositional bias.

As far as the Patriot Act, if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to lose. It's the only viable alternative to internment camps...Guantanimo excluded.

Nothing like letting your enemies know how you are; how your morale is; and how they're doing at attacking you.

Ridiculous.
Everything's completely upside down.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 03:36 PM

I don't have a problem with your opinions, JP, but your predictions are bollocks. And you totally don't understand the US Constitution and its purpose and necessity. Shame, really, since it's not your country's system of government, nor your servicemen and women you advocate sacrificing for the fulfillment of your little hot-dog cowboy fantasy world. Easy, isn't it, when someone else is doing all the nasty work (and most of the suffering).

And aside from the 1973 war, no country has ever waged a first strike war against Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 03:39 PM

Except for 1948, CarolC.... And THAT war has not been concluded, yet....( except for Egypt and Jordan)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 03:46 PM

No, other countries didn't start that one, beardedbruce. "Israel", or what became Israel after it declared itself a country, started that one long before the other countries joined in. It just didn't call it a war until after it declared itself a country. Convenient, isn't it? Wage acts of aggression against other people but don't actually call it a war until they respond. Hard to lose with that strategy.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 03:48 PM

I believe that we disagree on the interpretation of the facts of this matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:26 PM

JP does have a point though. It would be a hell of a lot easier for the government of Israel to rule the United States if it didn't have that pesky US Constitution to contend with.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 05:10 PM

Hmm, so are we seeing the warm-up in Iraq right now?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:22 PM

CarolC - 16 Mar 06 - 12:56 PM

"They have no problem with destroying a country for oil,.....Just look at Afghanistan (where we have an oil agenda in the form of pipelines)."

Really CarolC? what pipelines are they - quick give Don F a shake and he can tell us all about the TAP Pipeline that the US has absolutely sod all to do with and which is as far away from being constructed now as it was twenty years ago. But according to CarolC the US "has an agenda" - Utter crap, if you are going to peddle fairytales at least try and hang them on a framework with a bit of credibility

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 09:38 PM

Really CarolC? what pipelines are they

At this point in time, it appears that the pipelines in question are the ones they don't want companies like Bridas from Argentina to build. But give them some time and I'm sure they'll have some pipelings of their own they'll want to build.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 09:40 PM

That should read, *pipelines*

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 09:50 PM

CarolC:
"And aside from the 1973 war, no country has ever waged a first strike war against Israel. "

Okay, so a country HAS waged at least one first strike war against Israel according to you, glad to hear of it. Kind of makes the rest of your sentence bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 09:56 PM

...and the 1973 war was specifically for the purpose of taking back territory that Israel took from those other countries (the ones who started the 1973 war) in previous wars. So if we use beardedbruce's logic, we can say that it was really Israel who started that war as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Peace
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 10:07 PM

Deja vu all over again.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:12 PM

It all began shortly after the 2nd World War, when a bunch of European Jews decided they needed a Jewish homeland on someone else's ground somewhere, and set out to accomplish that through terrorist acts in Palestine. There was resistance to those acts, but that resistance was not officially termed a "war" until the state of Israel was announced to exist. The USA was the first nation to recognize that state. I wonder why? Anyway, then it was called a war, as Carol points out. Arabs and Palestinians did not go to Europe and start a war...European Jews went to Palestine and started a war. Everything that has occurred since then has been a series of reactions and counter-reactions following that original illegal act.

And that act was a reaction to the Holocaust.

But how is it that a Holocaust perpetrated by Nazi Germany results in a Jewish counterattack on the Muslim inhabitants of Palestine?????

Oh, well, you have to go way back to an ancient holy book to find a rationale behind that... ;-D Riiiiiightttt...

Is any of this rational or justifiable? Any of it? No. It's just the strong and paranoid and ruthless siezing opportunities to take what doesn't belong to them from someone who appears to be vulnerable. First Hitler. Then the Israelis-to-be. And later Saddam. And Syria. And the USA.

They are all scoundrels. They are all after their own gain. To take sides and pretend that one is the "good guy" and the other "the bad guy" is really a bit silly, given the fact that not one of them really gives a damn about anything except being the winner at the end of the day. It's realpolitik, not a struggle between good and evil. It's like Meyer Lansky taking on Dutch Shulz. It's criminals fighting other criminals, and may the best-armed win.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:08 AM

"when a bunch of European Jews decided they needed a Jewish homeland on someone else's ground somewhere, and set out to accomplish that through terrorist acts in Palestine."

Little Hawk!

You Naughty little boy! You have been reading those damn history books again, haven't you?!!! Come now, take your little propaganda tablets, and we'll have no more of this nonsense!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:20 AM

More imaginary history, and it dont' even rhyme!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:40 AM

Yes, I agree, robomatic. JP and beardedbruce appear to have very vivid imaginations when it comes to history. Or at least the people they get their "information" from do.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Mr Bush going into Iran?from SkarpiIc
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:57 AM

Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember watching then current documentaries about the activities at the same time as the movie came out, and being confused by the two totally opposed views of history... so SOMEBODY's been telling porkies for decades...