Walkaboutsverse

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 03:21 PM

Uh . . . GUEST, which notes were those?

I'm a trained musician and I have a pretty good ear, but I wasn't even able to determing what key it was in.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 03:31 PM

Why? Do you think Mr. Skelter will file a lawsuit?


A

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 03:44 PM

That willy nilly post is hilarious, however WAV's attempt at a reply shows a distinct deficiency in the ha! ha! department.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 03:49 PM

Dear Don, on my myspace playlist: The Water is Wide (E. Trad.) is in F, Walkabout with my Pen (me) is in D, Tees to Tyne (me) is in G, When I survey the Wonderous Cross (Miller, Watts) is in D, and Young Emma (E. trad.) is in...?

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 04:12 PM

Was in those keys? Well, I guess you did have them kind of surrounded. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: irishenglish
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 04:31 PM

Actually I find his singing to be very avant garde. As in 'avant garde a clue!

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 04:37 PM

A few notes were close to C in Young Emma - close, but not dangerously so

Stu

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 04:38 PM

None of those songs are in my repetoire (nor will they ever be), so like irishenglish I avant garde a clue :-D

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 04:55 PM

Far be it from me to try to discourage anyone's efforts, but one really should exercise a bit of judgment and self-evaluation, and be willing to listen to the frank criticism and advice of knowledgeable people.

One of the good things about sites like YouTube and MySpace is that they make it easier for singers, musicians and such to get their work out there. Much easier than it used to be. One used to have to pass an audition or be hired by someone before you could appear before an audience, which, in many cases, is not a bad thing. Or one had to get past an editor to get one's writing published

But the problem—the flip side of the internet making it so easy—is that there are a whole lot of people who are simply "not ready for prime time" who are pushing their stuff out there, with the result that they look pretty amateurish if not downright gawdawful! Not a good thing for trying to build a reputation or develop a following. Pushing your stuff out there before you're really ready can be a major blunder and a career killer.

I had an artist friend some years ago who uttered something that any aspiring artist, writer, poet, or even musician ought to keep in mind. He said, "The most valuable tool an artist has is his wastebasket—and the good judgment to know when to use it!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 05:03 PM

The Water Is Wide (also called O Waly, Waly) is thought to be an English or Scottish folk song and the stronger evidence points very firmly to it being Scottish.
Then there is the popular set of lyrics to this song that begin

The water is wide, I cannot cross o'er
Neither have I the wings to fly.
Give me a boat, that will carry two,
And both shall row, my true love and I.

These, according to a couple of very learned musical associates of mine (one teaches at the Birmingham Conservatoire), may well be Irish in origin... oops! :-D

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 05:14 PM

That on publishing from a man who just published: "I'm a trained musician and I have a pretty good ear, but I wasn't even able to determing what key it was in." (Don Firth, above)...and, voice aside, Don, the top-line notes played on recorder and keyboard are DEFINITELY as on the score; so, if you do have a trained ear, you should be able to tell the key from the instrumentation on The Water is Wide, and When I Survey the Wonderous Cross, at least.
As for Young Emma, the notation doesn't seem to be on the web, yet, but it is in The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs, which I don't have...?

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 05:34 PM

I was aware of what keys the recorder was in. Being a fixed-pitch instrument, there isn't a lot you can do to screw that up (but it can be done!). But "voice aside" indeed! That's what I am referring to, WAV. You are singing off-pitch much of the time.

As I say, you are not "ready for prime time."

Time in the woodshed, man. Practice. Record yourself and listen critically to the playback. Then practice some more until you can get it right.

This is what you should do--should have done--before putting it on MySpace.

You may not like to hear that, but believe me, it's bloody good advice!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 05:41 PM

Now, Young Emma/Young Edwin in the Lowlands Low / Edwin , interesting song indeed. Martin Carthy sings a version of this song on the 1992 Fellside Records release, Voices: English Traditional Songs ( I have this record in my collection). Peter Bellamy made a recording, singing it unaccompanied, in 1979 as Edmund in the Lowlands for his album Both Sides Then.

Both Carthy's version and Bellamy's version are American in origin, Carthy's from the Ozark Mountains, and Bellamy's from the singing of Gale Huntington of Martha's Vineyard.
Oh and Steeleye Span do a shortened version of the song on Now We Are Six (also in my record collection)

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 05:52 PM

Hey, c'mon, Don! I've heard worse singing than that...

It was in Blind River one time. Man! You should've been there. Un-flippin'-be-LEEV-able!

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 06:43 PM

"An he had been a dog that should have howled thus, they would have hanged him: and I pray God his bad voice bode no mischief. I had as lief have heard the night-raven, come what plague could have come after it."
                                                    —Much Ado About Nothing, Act II, scene 3, William Shakespeare.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 06:49 PM

666!!

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 08:44 PM

The devil, you say!??

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 05:10 AM

Whatever the present standard of my intonation, Don, I do, indeed, keep working on it by playing, singing, playing, singing...

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 05:40 AM

Wav, you have a good voice. Don is right in saying that you shouldn't put anything online untill you have worked out some of the kinks.

Isaac Babel, a Russian-Jewish writer (he reminds me of O. Henry) published a few stories in Gorky's paper during 1916. Gorky recognised talent when he saw it, but he encouraged Babel to hone his skills and get to know people better, before publishing anything more. Babel took the advice to heart. It wasn't until the 20s when he felt that he could now express his thoughts succintly and clearly enough for publication.

One of my absolute favourite authors is Rafael Sabatini. His literary merits are often overlooked, but Captain Blood and Scaramouche are brilliant books.Most of his early stuff, however, is pretty poor. He himself admitted that and tried to keep them from being republished. I happen to agree with him.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:12 AM

...I think I know what you mean, Volgadon: I've heard about poets, e.g., publishing young, and spending much of the rest of their career correcting things published. I was in my late 30s, and only make minor changes when I read/study my life's work annually.
As for publishing music on myspace, etc., I (as with most, I think) practise the piece until I feel I'm not going to get it a whole lot better, then record/publish/have a go!

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:19 AM

WAV, your actual age has little to do with literary/artistic youth.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:12 PM

What I really have a yen to hear now is a lengthy poem about a day spent in Bournemouth.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:22 PM

One of my favourite odes is, Upon Viewing a Prospect of Purley, Parts 1-5.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:24 PM

While walking my dog.


breathing sweet candy air down by the creek
beneath the flowering vines
helps the water look like honey
while my dog smells everything she finds

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:41 PM

While walking where Donuel walked his dog.

The air's sure sweet down by that creek
Where I look up at fluttering birds,
But why does it have to be, every week,
That I tread on a carpet of turds?

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:58 PM

"What I really have a yen to hear now is a lengthy poem about a day spent in Bournemouth" (Little Hawk)...this one, from almost exactly 7 years ago, is the closest I can go (bit of controversy, too!)...

Poem 156 of 230: EASTBOURNE - SUMMER 2001

On the day before the solstice,
    I first sighted Eastbourne:
A beautiful elegant place -
    English culture untorn.

Two long days allowed two long lanes
    To be walked before dark -
One after travel on four trains,
    One post-Devonshire Park.

The first was between sea and heath,
    And gardens signed by post,
Then up the Downs to view, beneath,
    The brutal handsome coast.

The next, contrasting that before,
    Showed all kinds of vessels -
Parked up along the pebbly whore
    And in marina cells.

(But, as for the women's tennis,
    It soon became a qualm -
As I was put-off by what is
    A great strain on their arm.)

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 01:03 PM

Shattering, simply shattering.


A

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 01:10 PM

...as some say over the pond - sharks, Amos.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 01:18 PM

(bit of controversy, too!)...

where?

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 01:47 PM

You're obviously pretty serious about this, WAV. More power to you!

As far as your intonation is concerned, singing on pitch is a bit like shooting from the hip. When you first try it, you miss a lot. But the more you work at it—if you pay careful attention and are sufficiently self-critical—the more accurate you become.

You have to hear the note, a sequence of notes, or a whole phrase clearly in your "mind's ear" before you can duplicate it with your voice. It takes awhile and it takes regular, concentrated practice. But it's well worth it! Recording practice sessions, then listening to the playback can be a real help.

Don't ever make the mistake of thinking "Well, it's a folk song, so it doesn't have to be that good." I've occasional heard beginning singers say something like that, and in addition to showing a touch of contempt for the music itself, it's an attitude that is guaranteed not to produce desirable results. If it's worth singing at all, it's worth taking the time to learn to sing it as well as you possibly can.

Trying a song out for another pair of ears before you put it out there for the public is not a bad idea.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:22 PM

I agree with that Don, and what I sometimes do is go through just the first stanza (and chorus) of my repertoire - playing a line then singing a line straight after...and, from my 3rd favourite genre, I remember seeing a clip from an opera (?) where Joan Sutherland follows a transverse flute, in a similar (if much more sophisticated) way.
To DS: some may not like me questioning women's tennis in the last stanza of that poem - but I have hit a lot of tennis balls myself and know that it does, indeed, put a lot of strain on the racket arm; thus, in my opinion, table tennis is a better sport for females.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:30 PM

WAV said, "To DS: some may not like me questioning women's tennis in the last stanza of that poem"

I saw that, and have come to expect that sort of thing from you, therefore I don't take it or you seriously at all. I play tennis my self, hence my answer.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:37 PM

So why are men's and women's arms any different, is there a physiological reason I don't know about?

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:41 PM

that depends. Which physiological differences are you aware of?

I have a cousin who was at one point quite proficient as a women's wheelchair tennis player; but she felt it wasn't competitive enough so she started playing in the men's tournements. (did quite well from what I heard)

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:52 PM

Don't rise to the bait, he does this all the time, and he's really not worth your valuable time, I've learned this.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:55 PM

Not in the arms, as far as I'm aware of.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 05:39 PM

As to the ability of women to play the game of tennis, obviously it is far, far too strenuous for the feminine physiology. Much too difficult a sport for the delicate little dears!

By way of proof, let me refer you to the following web site:    CLICKY

Women just aren't capable of developing the necessary upper body strength.   SEE?

And what can I say but   DUCK!!!??

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:15 PM

Dennis is a menace with his
"Anyone for tennis?"
and he's always begging me
to keep the score
Maude say's "Oh Lord!
I'm so terribly bored,
and I really can't stand
it anymore

So..........

Those Weak Women At Wimbledon

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:21 PM

Then there's the
List of French Open Women's Singles champions

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Def Shepard
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:28 PM

and, of course, they have and do all play better than you, so, WAV, YOU are the weakest link. :-D

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:29 PM

The top female players probably are a bit better than me, DS, but that's not the point - have a look at all the strapping, bulging muscles and veins of some of the top players you've listed; also, I've heard a well known English ex-player say she often played with pain killing injections in her racket-arm...as I say, table tennis is a better sport for females, as netball is a better team sport than rugby for females. Most of the coaches on the women's tour are men whose main job, nowadays, it seems to me, is to grind away femininity - not my cup of tea, and I disagree with the modern slogan - "women can do anything".
Having said that, I would like to quickly add that I have no problem at all with the next Archbishop of Canterbury, e.g., being a female, whereas many others still do.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: TheSnail
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:45 PM

A Subaltern's Love Song

Miss J. Hunter Dunn, Miss J. Hunter Dunn,
Furnish'd and burnish'd by Aldershot sun,
What strenuous singles we played after tea,
We in the tournament - you against me!

Love-thirty, love-forty, oh! weakness of joy,
The speed of a swallow, the grace of a boy,
With carefullest carelessness, gaily you won,
I am weak from your loveliness, Joan Hunter Dunn.

Miss Joan Hunter Dunn, Miss Joan Hunter Dunn,
How mad I am, sad I am, glad that you won,
The warm-handled racket is back in its press,
But my shock-headed victor, she loves me no less.

Her father's euonymus shines as we walk,
And swing past the summer-house, buried in talk,
And cool the verandah that welcomes us in
To the six-o'clock news and a lime-juice and gin.

The scent of the conifers, sound of the bath,
The view from my bedroom of moss-dappled path,
As I struggle with double-end evening tie,
For we dance at the Golf Club, my victor and I.

On the floor of her bedroom lie blazer and shorts,
And the cream-coloured walls are be-trophied with sports,
And westering, questioning settles the sun,
On your low-leaded window, Miss Joan Hunter Dunn.

The Hillman is waiting, the light's in the hall,
The pictures of Egypt are bright on the wall,
My sweet, I am standing beside the oak stair
And there on the landing's the light on your hair.

By roads "not adopted", by woodlanded ways,
She drove to the club in the late summer haze,
Into nine-o'clock Camberley, heavy with bells
And mushroomy, pine-woody, evergreen smells.

Miss Joan Hunter Dunn, Miss Joan Hunter Dunn,
I can hear from the car park the dance has begun,
Oh! Surrey twilight! importunate band!
Oh! strongly adorable tennis-girl's hand!

Around us are Rovers and Austins afar,
Above us the intimate roof of the car,
And here on my right is the girl of my choice,
With the tilt of her nose and the chime of her voice.

And the scent of her wrap, and the words never said,
And the ominous, ominous dancing ahead.
We sat in the car park till twenty to one
And now I'm engaged to Miss Joan Hunter Dunn.

        -- John Betjeman

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:10 PM

WalkUponCrap.......LMAOLMAOLMAO......Geeziz Man.....or whatever it is you are, you are FUBAR as all hell ain'tcha?   I love it! When was the last time your head popped out of your ass and you saw daylight?   What a fuckin' jadrool........

I have a feeling you may be right about women not being able to do everything. For instance, I can't think of any who would have any form of sex with you on the worst day she ever had.........Not even Chongo's girlfriend!   Even when you resort to Ma Thumb and her four daughters, three are left out of the action and Ma is bored to death.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:12 PM

AH, how lovely, clubby, palsy-walsy, Empire-epical!!


A

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:41 PM

Sweet mother of Zeus!!

Re:   women and tennis, I believe Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King had a little disagreement about this a few decades back. They put it to the test on the tennis court and Billie Jean chewed him up, spit him out, and tap-danced on his remains, hardly working up a sweat in the process. Bobby was duly chastened and managed to keep his silly, male-chauvinist piggy mouth more-or-less closed after that. There are many, of course, who seem incapable of learning from history.

Nevertheless, we must, of course, keep the delicate little dears barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

Don Firth

I think i see a throwback WAVing to us from the Victorian era. . . .

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 03:42 AM

I thought male tennis players needed pain-killing injections too.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 04:52 AM

To Snail - thanks for the John Betjeman and, for what it's worth, I do agree with him on quite a lot, but any other Miss out there for TABLE tennis?
To Catspaw - once again, please get back to your kittie litter.
To Amos and the blue (is that from our umpire?) - I hate imperialism, be it Victorian or any other, frankly.
Dear Don - I admitted most top females would probalbly do a BJK on me, but that's not the point; the point is, rather, Volgadon, that I don't like members of the fairer sex belting tennis balls with a pain-killing-injected tennis arm. And further...

Poem 211 of 230: AT FRONT LINES

I can't suckle a baby -
    God planned on some divisions;
Women are with war-weapons -
    We have fallen morally.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 05:58 AM

My point is that at any professional level, both males and females will need pain killers. Playing tennis, for fun, as a hobby, is perfectly fine.

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 05:59 AM

I have an unrelated question, WAV. Could you include a full list of the 40 countries you said you visited?

Subject: RE: Walkaboutsverse
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 06:37 AM

Can we just settle on about 40, Volgadon - to be more precise would be very difficult, as boundaries have changed considerably; e.g., tensions were just beginning to rise as I travelled through what was Yugoslavia (and this is a statement of fact, not a judgement on the matter), and there were two Germanys at this time...

Poem 17 of 230: THROUGH WHAT WAS

During Europe's summer, '88,
    At a wall my bag was checked:
A brief smile at what gave it weight;
    Sun-cream lid back - mood unwrecked.
I walked past plain buildings and cars,
    And entered a small food-store.
Its goods were plain, also: no sweet bars;
    The essentials - not much more.
As I bought crispbread, with money changed,
    A row began, at counter,
Between two, it seemed, Germans estranged -
    Clothes, to me, the sole pointer.
I headed back through the wall that was,
    Then signed a reunion book.
Reflecting, I'm happy/sad because
    The Left-cause, too, has been shook.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com