BS: Who designs these things?

Subject: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:24 AM

DVD and video players.

They have connections on the back where you can't get to them. Not only that they often recess the connections.

Then they label them with tiny raised black letters on black plastic.

So you have to buy extra long leads so that you can pull the machine out to get to the back, then you still have to get a magnifying glass and a flashlight to read the letters.

I wish someone would pay me money to design crap like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:27 AM

Had a neighbour wh needed to change a spark plug on his then-new truck (was about seven years back). He found the one he had to change way the hell behind the motor and getting at it required a tool ya could only draw if ya did 1000 mcg of bad acid first.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:36 AM

Yeah Peace, they should take all car designers out in a blizzard, give them a set of K-Mart tools and make them strip down and repair parts that they designed.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 03:15 AM

Yeah, I wish each component had a single USB cable that handled everything, including power. Computers seem to be finally improving, but audio-visual equipment is getting worse.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 04:00 AM

You should always remember that, in any 'modern' business - even ones who claim to be 'hi-tech', the technical people are regarded as lowly, expendable menials. The company will be run by marketeers - big-mouthed, know-nothing egomaniacs usually in their 20s and 30s. These people are a menace and it is no wonder that the things they sell are often badly designed.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 04:19 AM

I noticed the headlights on my car weren't very bright and decided it was actually running on sidelights. Changing the right hand bulb was easy, but I couldn't get at the left. In the end, even a garage mechanic couldn't get at it and we ended up booking the car in for a service, removing the battery and the rack it sat on and then re-installing the whole lot again. For a bulb.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:35 AM

A Chrysler built Military Truck (experimental prototype) that I participated in testing ca. 1966 actually did require that you unbolt the engine mounts and lift the engine a minimum of 10 inches to change the oil filter - every 1,000 miles of the 80,000 mile test.

The (dis)service manual for a 1970 Chevrolet Van that I once had specified unbolting the engine and raising it 3 inches to change one (the #8) sparkplug. That's how they did it if you paid an "authorized service agency" to do a tuneup for you. (Recommended every 30,000 miles.) I "redesigned" that one with a hacksaw to remove about a half inch of a sheetmetal flange (non-structural) to provide enough clearance to make the change without any such crap.

On a number of the "raised black letters on black plastic" I've used "Wite-Out" or "Liquid Paper" typewriter correction fluid to paint the tops of the letters* so that they're much easier to see; although it doesn't avoid having to drag the device out of place to get it where they can be seen.

* You can also just smear it on and wipe it off the tops.

Manufacturers and their advertising/marketing people, especially for anything that's considered a "consumer" item, have no interest in whether it can be used. Their only interest is whether people will pay their money and carry it out of the store. The mantra is "Made to Sell -- Not to Use."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 07:47 AM

I knew someone who raced Porches (about 911's or the next later model, can't remember exactly). He said the only way to change the spark plugs way to drop the engine out completely - that only took about 15-20 mins to finish the job completely - trying to do it any other way took hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 08:35 AM

I once spent about 9 hours helping an experienced mechanic change an alternator belt on one of those mid 1980s "sporty" little cars - name not recalled. We knew the "book" said pull the engine, but we didn't have an engine jack to do that. His daughter called me to see if I had a slightly unique tool, which I had; but we ended up fabricating several other "very special purpose" tools before we got the job done. Fortunately he had some scrap iron and a welder...

I once considered buying a very conservative Fiat family sedan (124?)until I learned that an oil filter change (every 600 miles?) required removing 38 screws to drop the full belly pan before you could get to the filter. The pan was about 6 feet long, and heavy enough that the service book recommended "an assistant" to help put it back on.

Several fairly recent model trucks had front "ball-joints" that can be safely lubricated only if you jack the vehicle up to remove the weight from the suspension. If you had enough pressure (about 125 psi) to force grease into one with the weight on it, it would split the housing and destroy the joint. GM finally got smart after a couple of years and put a small shield over the grease fitting. When you jacked it up, the rotation of the lower control arm moved the shield out of the way so you could get a grease gun onto the fitting. Ten years later mechanics were still cursing that "hard to reach" fitting, and still trying to "grease without jacking" because GM never explained why they did it that way in the service manuals.

Horror stories abound in the auto trades. It only really gets scary when you talk about airplanes.

Home electronics usually are just annoying.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 09:37 AM

Food processors get my back up. Who designed them with all those ridges, lips and interesting fluting? I'll tell you who, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER WASHED UP IN THEIR LIVES!! That's who. All those pictures of a newly manicured hand rinsing a pristine blender jug under a tap..... bet they never had to pick bits of pureed carrot out of the blades....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:15 AM

It is just stories like this that make me appreciate some improvements in a few things in recent years. A VCR with front panel jacks for dubbing etc...and a PC with a 2nd set of mic & USB jacks behind a sliding front panel, (along with slots for major camera cards).

There will always be enough horror stories, but with a teeny bit of care, you may be able to avoid the worse ones.

(An old boss of mine bought an early Edsel, and told stories about mechanics cursing because there was almost no easy way to get AT many engine parts.)

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:18 AM

Reiterating...things are not necessarily designed with their use in mind, although the marketplace is much more of a patchwork quilt these days, with some lovely glaring exceptions to what is being discussed here. Anyone shopped at IKEA lately? And SOME electronics DO have excellent designs, and so do some other products as well. But all too often things are not designed well enough.

I remember reading a book back in the early 70s called "How Things Don't Work" that talked about this very phenomenon. One thing mentioned in the book that stuck out in my mind was the ubiquitous can opener. The more common ones failed to consider the can that they opened. They created two very sharp edges once their work was done. Another (superior design) opener actually rolled the sharp edge under to create two safer edges and a fited can top that could be replaced to cover the unused portion of the contents.

Never figured out why the good one never made a bigger splash in the marketplace. They are still available in some home speciality shoppes, but do not come close to dominating the sales figures. So much for the free market assuring that superior ideas and gadgets rise to the top.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Alba
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 04:45 PM

"On a number of the "raised black letters on black plastic" I've used "Wite-Out" or "Liquid Paper" typewriter correction fluid to paint the tops of the letters* so that they're much easier to see;"

That's a really good idea John.
Thanks for the tip.

Liz, right there with you on the design of Food processors.
One that sat proudly on my Cabinet top for all to see is now at the back of a cupboard. Cleaning the grooves and niches was a nightmare...... but it looked nice when I bought it..**BG**

Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:07 PM

I've had the same problem with the food processors, but a friend who has the real "Cousin Art" (her name for it) seems to use it for nearly every meal and just tosses all the parts that need cleaning into the dishwasher. The cheap ones I've had all said they were "dishwasher safe" - and I'll admit they didn't destroy the dishwasher, but about 3 times through the dishwasher and the plastic was pretty well destroyed.

That may be a place where buying the "premium brand" is worth it, although I haven't really investigated how much difference there is in the various kinds.

Cooking utensils in general are an area where it's extremely difficult to find anything functional, although everything looks really flashy on the rack at the sellers. Spatulas, serving ladles, etc invariably have handles that fall off. Bowls won't stack, so they take exhorbitant space in the cabinets. ... I've been looking for a usable pastry rolling pin for about three years now, with no success in local markets.

An article in the local rag this morning comments on how the publishers of recipe books can't use instructions like "saute," "fold in," etc, because "modern cooks" are so ignorant don't know what the terms mean. The old editions used to explain what those "exotic terms" meant, but I guess the new generation can't read big words either.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:11 PM

Nuclear power plants that leak. But hey--don't worry, they all leak, and the Bush administration has a great energy plan to build more.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:15 PM

Some little Chevy sedans, Monza I think (not the Corvair Monza)also had to have the engine at least loosened on the mounts to get the back spark plugs. That car was designed for a rotary engine, then fitted with a piston engine when G.M. abandoned plans to use a rotary. When the word got out about the sparkplug situation, someone from the media got a chance to ask a G.M. exec how they explained something like that. He said, "we call that a design variation".

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 07:30 PM

Some time back, my wife and I got a Sony bookshelf system (pretty big for a bookshelf, but we keep it on top of a low bureau) that includes a CD player (up to three CDs, all possible formats), an AM/FM tuner complete with programmable pre-sets, a dual cassette deck, and a couple of features I haven't figured out yet. We liked the sound of it in the store, and I read lots of reviews and consumer reports before we bought it, and it was rated best in the category by several sources. With four good-sized speakers and a sub-woofer, it has a terrific sound, with enough oomph (450 watts) that, were we not the neighborly type, we could get the whole building organizing a lynch mob to come and get us.

But—it has two rows of buttons down each side of the front panel and an instrument cluster in the center that doesn't look like an instrument cluster from a few feet away. All the controls are labeled with black letters on what appears to be a brushed aluminum surface, but the lettering is very, very small. With the rows of buttons and the instrument cluster, you can change radio stations, start and stop CDs, skip cuts or whole CDs if you want, start, stop, and record cassettes from various inputs, along with the usual fast-forward and reverse, etc., for CDs and cassettes, plus all sorts of tone adjustments. We can go to sleep or wake up to the radio or a CD if we like. Very versatile. It will do just about everything but wind the cat, put out the clock, and brew the morning coffee. And it has a remote!

But after reading the manual that comes with it while studying the machine itself, I've come to the conclusion that to figure out all the features of the thing—and then, which combination of buttons to press to make them work—would take a committee of NASA engineers, a whole firm of Philadelphia lawyers, and a couple of psychics to figure out. The remote is just as enigmatic.

And I used to be a radio announcer, run broadcast boards, produce commercials and newscasts, and run all kinds of electronic equipment. And I have an FCC First Class Radiotelephone Operator's license.

Another snarl:

I'm sure that lots of orthopedic equipment is not designed by the people who actually have to use it—or, for that matter, who even try it out before putting it on the market. For years, the hand-grips on aluminum forearm crutches came equipped with a rubber grip cover like those on the handlebars of a bicycle. After using the crutches to walk a block or two, the palms of your hands would start to burn from holding onto the rubber grips. For decades, this was all that was available, but a few years back, someone got smart and started making them out of plastic.

I have an electric power wheelchair (Clicky). Great machine. It gets up to 25+ miles on an overnight battery charge, it can tackle fairly steep grades, manage rough terrain, and it's amazingly maneuverable. It can turn within its own radius (you could sit in one spot and spin if so inclined). But whoever designed the electronic controller that sits in front of the armrest just wasn't thinking. You can change the speed setting on it from a slow creep up to six-and-a-half miles per hour (a fair jogging speed) with the twist of a small rheostat. But to operate the joy-stick that you use to steer the thing and modulate the speed within the range you've set on the rheostat, the heel of your hand has to rest on the rheostat. Small movements of you hand while operating the joy-stick can inadvertently move the bloody rheostat, and you could find yourself suddenly speeding up or slowing down. So I have to really watch it when I'm cruising down the sidewalk in my Tom Swift electric chariot. When designing it originally, it would have been no problem at all to set the damned thing to one side or the other—or in front of the joy-stick, and the problem wouldn't occur.

They ought to put out beta versions of these things before they start marketing them!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 08:41 PM

And speaking of wheelchairs, there is the matter of those who allegedly design public areas for wheelchair access.

In a medical building near where I live (yes, a building full of clinics and doctors' offices!), the booth in the men's room is wide enough to easily accommodate a wheelchair, and it's complete with grab-bars. Very good! But the entrance to the rest room itself:   you have to enter a small alcove, then turn 90^o to get through the door to the restroom itself. There is not enough room in the alcove to turn a wheelchair 90^o! All the rest rooms in the building are designed that way. Useless!

This sort of thing is a common problem in private homes. The entrance to the bathroom is often a 90^o turn from a hallway, and both the hallway and the door are too narrow for the wheelchair to make a 90^o turn. A wider hall, or, easier, a wider doorway would solve the problem.

I encountered another rest room in a public building in which, once again, there was a large booth complete with grab-bars. The problem was that the door didn't swing out like they do on a properly designed wheelchair accessible booth, it swung in. So when you backed into the booth, the door was between you and the toilet. And with you and your wheelchair in the booth, you couldn't swing the door closed to get it out of the way. Again, useless!

It would be idiot-simple just to have someone who uses a wheelchair do a run-through on these things before declaring them finished. Or better still, have someone who uses a wheelchair involved in the design.

I've written a fairly long article on accessibility problems that I've run into during the past fifteen years, but it's too long to post here. Fairly humorous, but with a bit of a bite to it. I take a sort of Dave Barry approach to the problem. Gotta send it in to some appropriate magazine.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 09:26 PM

Some companies, unnamed, design their parts that way deliberately. The idea is to force the customer to bring it in to an authorized shop so they can make a few extra bucks on the service parts. That and they may also design them to require special tools that only their techs have.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 02:04 AM

Don Firth:

At the link you gave for your chair, there is a downloadable "operators manual" that shows 3 different controllers, none of which look like they have the rheostat speed control you described. That raises the possibility that your chair is the beta model and they have changed the controllers for newer models. It might be worth talking to your dealer about whether a controller replacement might be possible; but it depends of course on whether it's worth it to you and of course on whether other things might have to be u$p$g$r$a$d$e$d to accomodate a different one.

The problem is similar to the laptop computers with the "touch pad" mouse built in just below the space bar. If you inadvertently brush against the touch pad while typing, the insertion point moves as if you'd "moused it" to some new position. If you're a touch-typist and don't watch the display at all times, you may find your text mangled into disconnected fragments splattered all over the place.

You can turn off the touch pad, but if you plug in an external "real mouse" it's on the same connection as the touch pad, so the pad has to be turned on for a normal (cheap) add-on mouse to work. Fortunately, a "USB Mouse" will work with the pad turned off (on the ones I've seen); but you have to figure that out for yourself. The documentation that comes with most such laptops doesn't mention the problem. (My observation has been that most people who think laptops are just as good as a real computer are "two fingered typists," so their opinions are easy to ignore. There are a few exceptions of course.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: jonm
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:06 AM

Volkswagen Golf GTi : removal and replacement of headlamp bulb on (UK) offside requires the front bumper to be detached and lowered to allow the lamp unit to by moved forward (there is insufficient room behind it). An hour's dealer labour. As an alternative, get the version with Xenon lamps - then you have to remove the bumper and lamp unit entirely, three hours' dealer labour. And no, the special tool required to remove the bumper is not commercially available!

I can't say I mind the small indistinctly-labelled buttons on home stereo equipment too much - you get used to the major operations quickly. What gets me is the stereo systems where the buttons are even smaller and even more indistinctly labelled, which are "designed" for use in the car i.e. for operation by feel alone without taking concentration from the job of driving.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:22 AM

Morris Minor - otherwise largely user-friendly, but:

Brake Master cylinder: dismantle right hand front suspension, remove torsion bar, finally access the bolts that secure the master cylinder inside the chassis rail. (or CAREFULLY grid heads off bolts without nicking the torsion bar, then replace them fromt he other side, the way it should have been done in the first place)

Heater control valve - easiest to remove the cylinder head.

Bypass hose - either remove water-pump or remove cylinder head, unlsess you retrofit concertina hose.

Gearbox - the support crossmember has two bolts at eather end, that are securid incaptive nuts inside the chassis rails. Result? the bolts rust in the captives, and applying excesive force destroys the captive housing so now the but and bolt go round and round together. ALso the gearbos cover in the car had 38 (if I remember correctly) phillips-headed quarter witworth bolts. The early models had brass ones that did NOT rust in. Later some accountant designated them as mild steel, with the reuslt that they rusted in. Excessive force would strip the Phillips heads, and then you had to drill 38 little bolts out!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:40 AM

"But after reading the manual that comes with it while studying the machine itself, I've come to the conclusion that to figure out all the features of the thing—and then, which combination of buttons to press to make them work—would take a committee of NASA engineers, a whole firm of Philadelphia lawyers, and a couple of psychics to figure out. The remote is just as enigmatic."

Don, the answer is easy... get a four year old child to play with it. Limpit can work our video camera far quicker and easier than we can.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Moses
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:27 AM

In the newly refurbished ladies toilets in my place of work, the toilet pan is situated centrally between the two side walls. There is only just enough room for the sanitary disposal unit to slide between the toilet pan and the wall so that it is impossible to sit on the loo without also sitting on the disposal unit.

Would it have been too much effort to have sited the toilet pan off-centre so that there would have been room to fit the disposal unit by one side of the loo with space to allow a little distance between the sitter and the disposal unit?

Almost all new loos have this fault. The designers KNOW they will be installing a disposal unit. Are they brain-dead?

I personally like the very old loos that were designed in Victorian times that HAD to be big to accomodate the voluminous dresses fashionable at that time. Todays loos are barely large enough to be able to stand in front of the pan and close the door behind you!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:29 AM

They're designed for 4 year old children with an adult's wallet...

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:34 AM

I was addressing your post LTS, not Moses... I think...

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 11:36 AM

I've always suspected that "Intelligent Design" was an oxymoron.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:22 PM

I symapthise with yourwheelcahir problem Don. I had a friend in England who was a polio survivor and had lost the use of his legs.

He was issued an invalid carriage with a kick start.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 06:06 PM

Has anyone else here wasted a couple of bucks on a "garden weasel"; the thing actually works pretty well -- for maybe 30 seconds at a time. That is literally about how long you can use it before an essential set screw loosens up again.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:19 PM

". . . invalid carriage with a kick start."

John Hockenberry, television newsman and former NPR foreign correspondent, is paraplegic due to a spinal cord injury when he was 19. In his remarkable book, Moving Violations, he describes flagging down a taxi in New York City (which was somewhat unusual in itself, because he said that generally when cab drivers see the wheelchair, they tend to drive right on by). He transferred from his wheelchair into the back seat of the cab. The driver just kept sitting behind the wheel. He and Hockenberry sat there and stared at each other for awhile. Finally, Hockenberry said, "Aren't you going to put my wheelchair into the trunk (boot)?" The driver said, "Hey, man, I gotta bad back!" To which Hockenberry replied, "You have a bad back!!???"   

Sometimes I suspect that thinking is becoming a lost art.

Regarding the power wheelchair controller, thanks for calling my attention to that, John.

The controllers shown in the PDF owner's manual are somewhat different from the one that came on my power chair. Figure 27 shows a much more logical layout than on mine, as do the other illustrations. I notice that in the one shown in Fig. 27, the speed control consists of a couple of "speed/profile" increase and decrease keys rather than a rheostat, and the whole shebang is positioned in front of the joy-stick where it ergonomically ought to be. And it has a couple of other features that mine doesn't have.

I got my "Jazzy" (why do they always have to give these things "cutesy" names?) about five years ago, so I guess the controller that came with mine was either a "beta" version, or maybe enough owners griped and squawked about the location and nature of the speed control that they redesigned it.

Now, I wonder if my chair can be equipped with one of the newer ones—and how much it might cost. I'm going to check it out.

Again, thanks!

On the laptop computer touchpad thing, I had a Dell Inspiron for about three years, and I was having the "Where the hell did the cursor go!??" problem all the time. But the Dell hauled off and died one day. I replaced it with a HP Pavilion zv5000z (great machine, with all kinds of neat options!). I've used the touchpad a lot, but lately I've switched over to a USB mouse and turned the touchpad off. Nice feature.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: bobad
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:26 PM

frogprince - use Loctite on it - won't loosen.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Scoville
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:18 AM

(Warning--I don't know ANYTHING about computers or electronics)

So, we have some cordless keyboards and mice here at work. Has this technology been adapted to DVD player/TV connections? Seems like you could make a fortune if you could make it reliable.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Joybell
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 05:35 PM

We have these toilet paper dispensers in our public restrooms that won't let you get at the paper. Big round metal things with a narrow slot underneath. After about 10 minutes you might just be able to get hold of a few torn pieces the size of postage stamps. Saves on paper of course.

Also our DVD player is pre-programed to say "Hello" and "Good-bye" and tell us our bio-rhythms but everything else is REALLY hard to set up on it. Even the antenna man couldn't tune in the channels. We've never been able to record from the TV on it. He could have checked up on his bio-rhythms though. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 11:35 PM

The award for bad design in 2007 has to go to Bissel. We recently bought one of their vacuum cleaners and it has to be the worst design I've ever seen (worse than Volvo, and you know how I feel about them).

On the first day it picks up dirt fairly well. But don't go near it without your shoes on because it is top heavy and falls over at the slightest touch. It is heavy and gives your bare toes a healthy whack, Ouch!!!.

On the second day it clogs up, because there are several small airways in it that won't allow the smallest piece of paper to pass (Now why did I buy a vacuum cleaner? It wasn't to pick up pieces of dirt and paper was it?).

So you have to dismantle it to clean it out (remember the days when you could just change the bag? Well this one is advertised as being easier because you don't have a bag). Out comes the Philips screwdriver and you take it all apart. Then you get your wire coathanger which you straighten out and put a hook in the end to try to unclog the thing.

Finally you get it unblocked. You then empty the box and wash out one of the filters. The other filter has to be replaced, but the store (Home Depot), where you bought the machine doesn't stock the replacement filters. AND, nor does ANY STORE IN TOWN. In fact the cleaner doesn't even have the size of the replacement filter printed ANYWHERE on it.

So, not knowing where to buy the replacement, you make do with a generic piece of filter cloth which you cut down to size.

GREAT! you've got it working again - FOR ANOTHER DAY.

So back to ...The award for bad design in 2007 has to go to Bissel...

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 11:57 PM

Bert, did you mention you hate Bissel?

Sorry buddy, just had to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:01 AM

Oops! I'm not sure that I quite got the worst there. I also bought a Black and Decker Juicer. The picture on the box showed a model with an input container with some fruit in it and an output container almost full of juice. When I tried it, I filled the input with fruit and turned it on. It thrashed and ground and spat out juice all over the counter top and the output container had less than a quarter of an inch of juice in it.

It went back to the store the next day.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:05 AM

Then there is the Cuisinart toaster.

The slots aren't big enough to take a full slice of bread.
You have to run it at least two times to get the toast brown.
AND it doesn't have a removable panel in the bottom to remove the crumbs; so if you get a piece of bread break off, you have to turn it upside down and shake it and hope that the piece falls out.

Next time I'm buying a toaster from an antique store.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:06 AM

It's not Bissel that I hate, but bad designers.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:15 AM

And then there are traffic engineers!!! Who pays these people? They are of course paid with public (YOUR) money.

Here in Colorado Springs, You come up to some traffic lights and there is a left turn lane. But NO LEFT TURN LIGHT! How the Fu** are you supposed to turn when there is a lot of traffic?

Do you pull out and hope that there is a gap before the light changes (and get a ticket for running a red light if it doesn't) or do wou wait and block the road for ten light changes?

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:22 AM

Yes, Bert, that is exactly what you do. Take a chance, Columbus did!
Just take your life in your hands and GO FOR IT!

PS...did you know that in most places left turns are actually illegal? The only time you get cited is if you are involved in a crash. You are technically 'in the wrong' because you were in the wrong lane making the turn.






Yea, yea...I'm going to bed now.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:33 AM

...PS...did you know that in most places left turns are actually illegal? - So why design a left turn lane?

Sleep tight!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:55 AM

There are SOME companies where the engineers--not the marketing guys -- are the deciders, and the problems and pleasures of actual use of a technical instrument are the first concern, They are typically founded by engineers who are also too smart to let bureaucracy run rampant. I work for one, and it is satisfying. Just so you know it is not all insanity out there.

And there is Steve Jobs.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:54 AM

In my area, left turns not only were legal, but the person turning left had the "right of way" over any vehicles approaching from the opposite direction - at least up to around 1960 or so. That particular rule survived from the days long before "turn lanes" of any kind, and was to allow a driver who had to stop in the middle of the highway to turn to "get the f&@#$&! out of the way" as quickly as possible.

The rule doesn't appear in current regulations that I've found, and I don't find any indication of whether it was changed or just forgotten. Quite probably it was changed "officially"¹ when the rule-makers finally caught on to what most drivers then knew - that being right doesn't mean you'll live through attempting to assert your right.

¹ There was a massive general revision of statutes sometime around 1960, and I believe it was then that they amended the State Statute from a century earlier that said - verbatim: "If two trains meet on the same track both shall come to a complete stop and neither shall move until the other is gone."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The PA
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:08 AM

What every home needs is a 17 year old.

Our's programs, connects, sets-up everything. The latest being his dads new laptop. Out of the box 2 hours - later all done, webcam the lot.

Its second nature to them cos they're not scared that they'll buggering it up. Tims been brought up with technology from the age of 4 at first school (and probably before when you consider todays modern toys).

I can rent him out if you like for a reasonable hourly charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:47 AM

I recently bought a mobile phone (Nokia). I haven't owned one for a while because, normally, I have very little use for one (all those people walking around with one glued to their heads must, surely, be much more important than me and must have lots of interesting things to say?).

Anyway,I thought I'd just check the manual to find out how to make and receive calls (surely the basic functions of a phone?). These functions weren't covered until page 12 - and two thirds of this page was taken up with how to make "conference calls" - very useful!

One of my key criteria for judging manufacturers of electronic equipment, software etc. is by how clear their manuals are. I have removed Nokia from my list of 'good' manufacturers.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:54 AM

I keep telling a colleage in wotk that he ought to become a design consultant for the disabled. He has had a lot of experience escorting his wheelchair bound wife.
Problems such as the RADAR key(for the disabled toilets) being kept in the upstairs office, disabled toilets in a new building being upstairs, whether a couple should use the gents or the ladies etc.

He does say the the Royal Albert Hall is the most user freindly concert venue that he has been to though, and he got in free as his wife's carer.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:32 AM

I think I could do a major overhaul on our 1930 Ford in less time than it would take to change a headlight bulb in our 2002 Dodge van.

That old Ford is a pleasure to work on. Every part is visable and easy to get at. (I have a wife like that).

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:16 AM

Looks like Kendall and the PA are headed for the cellar...

PA - "I can rent him out if you like for a reasonable hourly charge."... isn't that sort of illegal? If not, put me down for a couple of hours next Saturday evening.

I'd like to meet the guy who designs food processors with lots of sharp angles and interesting ridges in the bowls... absolute bugger to get all the cake mix out of mine because it's a cylinder - sharp angle where the bottom joins the sides - it has a depression for no apparent reason which none of my spatula or spoons will fit into - and the mix creeps up the centre spindle and into the socket on the mixing blade so I lose cake mix up there and it's the very devil to clean if you can't find the miniature bottlebrush.

The picture on the box shows it being rinsed clean under the tap... all I can say is that it must have been through the dishwasher twice before that picture was taken!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The PA
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:21 AM

LTS - Sorry he's busy with my new car cd player! and I dread to think what's lurking in my food mixer, I've had it 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: MaineDog
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:51 AM

Guest,DB is on the right track. It's about selling stuff whether it works or not. Most things are not designed or engineered, just cobbled together to look good to a certain subset of foolish (targeted) consumers, especially those who have been identified as needing to be the first ones on the block to buy the newest widget.
I am not exempt from this problem. My list of unacceptable stuff that I have bought is far too long.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:57 AM

I've got a Nokia phone Shimrod. I don't think I ever looked at the manual, just key in the number and hit the green button to make a call.

One reason I chose Nokia was that I saw someone lose one out of their car once. It bounced along the road, then it was hit a few times by other cars. The owner came back and found it and it still worked.

But Kyocera are on my bad list because the numbers wore off the buttons, they were just painted on. Neither Kyocera or Verizon would honor the warranty. Verizon said it was Kyocera's fault and Kyocera said it was normal wear and tear and offered to sell me a new faceplate.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: MaineDog
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:09 AM

I used to have a cell phone that had a really handy feature. You could program it to turn itself off after so many minutes of disuse, so as to save the battery.
To turn the phone on, you merely had to hit the on button once.
To turn it off you had to hold the button down for about 10 seconds. So it would seem that the auto turn-off feature would be really useful.
The problem was that its setting was forgotten every time you turned it off, so it always reverted to easy on, tough off. Go figure.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:03 PM

Changine a headlamp bulb on my Nissan is easy enough if you don't mind loosing most of the skin off the back of your hand.

On the other hand on my old Lada you could get at just about everything in the engine but the down side was that you needed to, regularly. The best bit was converting it to take unleaded petrol. Took me longer to open the bonnet than to adjust the timing. My mother's Fiesta required a trip to the dealer.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:12 PM

Liz:

Most of the curves and flutes are designed to ensure the contents get down to the blades and don't jam up in the corners. That's what a blender is supposed to do, right?

If the sides were just flat, the theory goes, the stuff in certain mixes would cling to them, or stack up in the corners.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:22 PM

Yes, there are a lot of machines out there with badly designed features for servicing and disassembly, no doubt about it.

But in the field of plastic model kits, I am happy to say, they just keep getting better and better! Why? Vicious competition, that's why, driven originally by the brilliantly high quality stuff that starting coming out of Japan in the 70's...and now just about everything that's coming out anywhere is simply worlds beyond what was available back in the "old days" of plastic modeling.

If it isn't, nobody buys it! ;-)

The accuracy, detailing, and fit on models now is incredible. The authenticity is superb. The packaging, decals, paints, and accessories are wonderful. The reference books have everything in them that you could possibly want to know.

What more could they do to improve these kits? Darned if I know. They have reached virtual perfection.

Same goes for wooden plank-on-frame kits of old sailing ships. Marvelous quality.

And then there are guitars...and electronic keyboards...man, the variety and quality that's out there now is almost beyond belief. There are so many fine handmade guitars out there now, and they have those great little touches, like the compensated saddle to correct the intonation on the individual strings. Great stuff! And there are some wonderful capos now too.

We are living in the golden age when it comes to model kits and musical instruments.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 02:49 PM

Scart leads are my biggest bug-bear, time out of number they refuse to connect, has anyone tried connecting them to the flat TV`s, they are situated at the back of the TV and are designed for hanging from a wall of your home, if sitting on a platform as mine is the Scart leads are almost impossible to connect.
I hate Scart leads.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 03:39 PM

The automatic-drip electric coffeemaker is the source of so much poor craftsmanship and so many good-but-obviously-not-fully-thought-through ideas that I can't look at one without shaking my head.

Most obviously, the carafes seldom pour worth a damn. Being able to pour a cup of coffee without making a mess is a feat worthy of a standing ovation. Having made hundreds of ceramic pitchers myself, I can tell you that it's not that hard to make a spout that works. How the coffeemaker folks can manage to make millions of them that don't is a mystery.

Then there are the coffeemakers with the little spring-operated drip-stop features that let you pour a cup before the batch has completely finished brewing without making a mess. They do that job pretty well, but they regularly hang up, overfill the brewing basket, and make a royal mess. The worst offenders are the ones with removable carafe lids that must be put on properly to prevent basket overflows. Don't the morons who design these things realize that the people who are going to be using them have usually just woken up and that they're not fully capable of doing anything that requires memory, logic, or more than three sequential steps? Granted, most carafes for drip-stop featured coffee-makers nowadays do have supposedly idiot-proof non-removable lids, but even they can create overflows if the carafe isn't fully inserted into its little nook.

And there's my current coffeemaker which exhibits a design flaw so fundamental that I can't imagine how the thing ever got on the market. The carafe holds more water than the water reservoir! I kid you not. If you fill the carafe anywhere near completely full of water and pour it into the reservoir, it overflows. If making something work involves filling A with a substance and pouring it into B, even the most lame-brained simpleton should know that B has to have at least the holding capacity of A!

And another thing that makes no sense to me is coffeemakers with a "dial-a-brew" type feature that allows you to make stronger or weaker coffee using the same amount of ground beans. If three scoops makes too strong a pot of coffee to suit you, just keep on putting three scoops in the basket, but turn the little knob to "less strong" and it performs some coffee weakening magic. Why not just put fewer scoops in the basket?

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:43 PM

That's just it Amos, the stuff sticks in the angle of the side and base, or else it creeps up the inside of the blade holder...

it's a bugger to scrape out.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:54 PM

Liz:

Fill it with piping hot water and detergent and let it run for a half-hour.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 05:05 PM

Have you seen what happens to detergent when agitated at high speeds? I tried that once and spent the rest of the day getting foam off the floor.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: MuddleC
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:23 PM

...what about the glorious invention of the automated telephone answering machine?? No, I don't mean the simple one with a tape recorder ..that worked fine... I mean '..welcome to the Acme Customer helpline, all calls are recorded to security and training purposes... please choose from the following options..press 1 to be patronised, press 2 to be lost in space.,.press 3 to hear totally unrelated information, etc.etc..from level one.. all the way down to level six, and still not the option I wanted....AAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHH!
----pressed '0' at one point..... got a human!!...who wasn't on the same continent and whoose accent was so bad that I had to tell him to shut up and just answer 'yes' or 'no' to my questions!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:11 PM

Liz -

Dishwasher soap - for the automatic dishwasher - is formulated to minimize foaming. Pre-rinsing dishes with ordinary "dishwashing" soap before putting them in the automatic washer can, in fact, prevent proper cleaning since even tiny amounts of residual "ordinary soap" makes enough bubbles to kill the efficiency of the water impact that's supposed to knock the crap off the dishes. (Even tiny bubbles make excellent shock absorbers.)

A very small amount of "automatic dishwasher soap" would be sufficient, and shouldn't make more than minimal suds even in a food processor.

And for getting the last of the suds rinsed down the drain after hand-washing things, cold water is much quicker than warm, since it reduces the "sudsing" action.

For killing really persistent suds, a sprinkle of "Epson Salts" (usually sodium sulphate) is very effective, and is kept on hand by many laundromat operators for clearing machines that people have overloaded with suds. Getting rid of the suds actually has little effect on the "cleaning power" of a detergent. The "bubbles" are added only because people expect to see them - and are really there only for marketing purposes.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:42 PM

My new Dell has four USB inputs plus earphone and some other stuff in front, as well as the usual in back. Really nice.
My wife couldn't get the hang of that touchpad on her laptop, but a cordless mouse has made her happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:49 PM

May I say a word in support of the modern automobile, most of which are now very well designed, again due primarily to the influence of the Japanese, who showed the rest of the world a thing or two about designing really good cars.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:59 PM

Ah, Little Hawk, you are mistaken there. They learned everything they knew from us here in the good ole USA; they learned how to do it better from one of our Process Improvement gurus. It is just that they were much more willing to listen and apply it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:50 PM

I once heard (or read) this quote from a designer, in reference to a "push" and/or "pull" sign on a door:

"When something as simple as a door requires instructions, there is something wrong with the design."

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Rapunzel
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 08:11 AM

I used to have a Ford Ka - lovely drive. All the commonly driver accessible things under the bonnet - oil, screenwash, etc - were brightly colour coded. The salesman said it was designed for women drivers, which seems sexist, but maybe true. Either way, it made life easy - except that to change a headlamp bulb you really needed hands the size of a ten year old...

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The PA
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 08:20 AM

There used to be saying round our parts, "buy a range rover get a bag of spanners thrown in". Seems its simple to do all jobs with a couple of spanners, 20+ years ago anyway. Not so sure about those new ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:23 AM

Then there's the Phillips DVD player. When you switch it on it automatically goes into 'LOAD' mode so you have to wait there, swearing at it, while it makes up its mind to respond to the eject button.

When it finally opens, you try to take the DVD out but there's a little lip where the finger slots are so you can't get your fingers under the egde of the DVD.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:33 AM

Every part is visable and easy to get at. (I have a wife like that).

kendall
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:32 AM

May he rest in peace. Jacqui, when you kill him, just remember the estate owes me one laptop. This one is beyond cleaning.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:48 AM

Japanese cars are not automatically better designed. I had my local shop change the leaky gasket around the oil pan of my Honda. For some reason, that required removing the box that holds transmission fluid. The mechanics said that an American car would not have somehting goofy like that.

About those buttons with tiny labels - I buy peel-off letters at the hardware store and place them above the buttons. For example, PH fits above the PHONO button quite well.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:53 AM

Don't talk to me about Japanese cars. Designed by people with little feet and similar brains. I can't drive Rachael's Isuzu with my work boots on because there's no room for my feet.

And how about cell phones with buttons so small that you hit three buttons at once.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:03 AM

They design Safeway stores so that the carts block people from entering or leaving the store.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:22 AM

And then they build displays in the aisles so you can't easily get past.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Rapunzel
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:02 PM

Then, just when you've got used to where everything is in the store, they change everything round again to confuse you.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Grab
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:13 PM

Bert, what they don't mention is that the bag of spanners is *inside* the transmission and gearbox. At least all the Landies I've ever seen sound like that!

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:42 PM

The Japanese have better quality control than we do, because they work on a different philosophy. They don't simply aim for marketability. They aim for perfection. As a consequence of that, they are constantly improving on what they do as a matter of principle.

And that makes all the difference. I have seen the results of it, not only in the field of auto design, but in many other fields as well.

North American manufacturers are concerned about only ONE thing: will it sell? It can be very flawed, very badly done, but if it sells well, "Who cares?"

That is a shoddy way of doing things, and it results in shoddy workmanship and poor quality products.

The Japanese constantly improve the things they do because it is their philosophy to constantly improve the things they do. That's brilliant. It's a credo that anyone would be wise to follow in any field of endeavour.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 09:37 PM

Poppa Bear said, "My porridge is too cold." and Baby Bear said, "My porridge is too hot"
and Momma Bear said,









Bitch
Bitch
Bitch

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,misty eyes
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 12:49 PM

What do you do walk away and take it?.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 12:53 PM

Avoid porridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 12:54 PM

Especially STOLEN porridge!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 01:12 PM

Avoid Stollen especially stolen Stollen.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Grab
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 01:29 PM

And Momma Bear said, "Poppa Bear, what's that blonde doing in our bed...?" ;-)

(Dragging it back to music: "My husband's got no porridge in him")

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:59 AM

It's a fashion thing. Leads are ugly. and with small equipment is there enough room for all the buttons, DVD tray and display and leads that will obscure the infra red receiver?

Maybe they should make the connections wireless and see what that does to the rf front end of digital TV tuners. You wait till they sell off the old analogue TV spectrum to phone companies. Then look at your digital TV picture. Wireless ain't the answer - PAL.

USA - 2009 not long now, UK 2012 ish

I have my satellite dish ready. Which covers the same stations until snow/rain gets heavy.

Broadband landlines are your only real alternative.

Be thankfull the mess of cables has kept the airwaves clear this long.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 12:24 PM

What do I do? I practice my sailor language and scare the hell out of the dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bee
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 01:28 PM

I'm with Liz on Stuff Designed for Mostly Women to Clean which have crevices and lumps which can't be reached by any cleaning tool larger than a toothpick.

Part of it is price, too. I've started noticing as I get older and smarter (or more pissed off) that, for example, a bathroom sink I can afford will have a gasket around it which will gum up around the edge, and after a few years will reveal it has collected a disgusting toxic goo under, which seeps out endlessly when you try to clean it up. An expensive sink will have a smooth easily cleaned transition between porcelain and vanity top.

Even faucets are hard to clean if they are cheaper ones, like those common clear plastic topped affairs which inevitably get scummy inside and can't easily be taken apart.

Then there are the coffeemakers. You cannot reach down into the water receptacle to clean all the weird curves and crevices (when the vinegar rinse just isn't enough). You cannot clean between those little reinforcing flanges in the bottom of the coffee grounds receptacle. And I've yet to spend enough to get one that makes the water hot enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Joe_F
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 09:15 PM

Bert: Order a Torte instead. Then you can sue.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 06:45 AM

Since the thread started off with a comment about cell phones, perhaps the current US situation as viewed in a recent article would be of interest:

Most Americans are in cell phone jail

Providers have worked hard to lock customers into losing situations

A "customer correspondence" quoted in the article sums up much of it:

I'm currently in the middle of a two-year contract with Verizon Wireless. They just notified me that they are dramatically increasing the charges I pay for receiving each text message from 2 cents to 10 cents.

When I called to complain, they left me with a few choices, and I was unhappy with all of them. I could simply accept the increase in charges. Alternatively, I could sign up for an unlimited text messaging plan for another $5/month, but only if I renew with Verizon for another two years. Or, I could end my contract and pay an early termination fee of $175.

If I don't pay the fee and change my plan to get the best rate for text messaging, then I'm locked in with Verizon for even longer than I originally would have been had they just kept the rates the same. And since the new plan also has an early termination fee, I'll face the same problem if they decide, without my agreement, to change the plan again to suit their needs.

There's more at the link, and other tricks and gimmicks that are common.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 07:19 AM

Ah, the good old Contract handcuffs. I like my phone, I like what it does, how it does it and how much it costs me. I don't like it when they try to upgrade me before I've learned how to use my present phone. When I tell them I don't want an upgrade, they act like I asked for their firstborn child. I've managed to get around it so far, but that's the advantage of being blonde and middle aged.

I'd like to know who designed the door to our washing machine - because it's just broken. If it hadn't been made to look pretty with an outer covering, I could get the springy thing that's fallen out and maybe effect a repair... but I can't get the outer covering off without breaking it completely, so it'll have to have a new door, or we get a new machine.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:00 AM

Don't start me on washing mashines.
I think I'm going to buy a house next to a river with handy size rocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:35 PM

I you take your clothes down to the river and beat them with rocks, you will end up wearing the "fertilizer" that runs off the feedlot, along with the "other fertilizer" that runs off the cornfield on the other side a few miles up the stream, the heavy metals dumped by the plating tanks at the manufacturing plant just aroung the bend, and probably will be rendered sterile (or strangely fertile) by the "outdated hormone tablets" flushed down the drain by your sister-in-law two states upstream - if you don't acquire a fatal infection from the "resistant bacteria" created by excessive use of antibiotics at the chicken farm.

Or you might be lucky and just wear clothing with lots of holes beaten into them.

Then there's the down side ...

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:23 PM

Get a home cement mixer. Use like a washing machine. They're really very reliable and you can also use it to pour the driveway.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 12:30 AM

I always preferred the "hang 'em on a rope and turn a hose on 'em" method, but zoning laws prohibit a "clothesline" in most neighborhoods around here. It you sneak it up after sundown so the neighbors don't squawk, the stuff don' get dry by daylight when ya have to take it all down.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 04:51 AM

Here in Colorado Springs they paint SCHOOL on the roads approaching schools (well they got that bit right) but they put the sign in the fast lane NEARER the school than the sign in the slow lane.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 07:06 AM

1. A 60's Corvette had a panel in the wheel-well to use to get to the spark plugs.

2. The 90 Lumina sedan required one to unbolt half the engine mounts and rotate the engine up 30 degrees to get to the back three plugs- or even get the wires on. This one also had 2 computers and 3 coils for high voltage ( spark)- all of which get replaced when there is a problem.

3. My old 72 Charger had a 400 cu in. engine- which required the removal of the exhaust manifold on the driver's side to get to the rear two sparkplugs.

Has anyone else heard about the problem with the Prius? It seems a main battery cable runs inside the frame over the door- and presents an electrocution hazard to rescue workers who try to cut through to get the driver out.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 07:30 AM

After about three years, Seattle has decided that their five (total cost $5,000,000) "self-cleaning public toilets" weren't working out too well.

A report is that they are offered for sale on eBay right now - starting bid $89,000 each. (Bidding not too fast at last report.)

The article doesn't make completely clear whether they just "didn't work well" - like most of the items discussed in this thread, or whether the real reason was that "the wrong kinds of people" were "working" them, although both complaints were implied.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 07:33 AM

from Bee:

"Part of it is price, too. I've started noticing as I get older and smarter (or more pissed off) that, for example, a bathroom sink I can afford will have a gasket around it which will gum up around the edge, and after a few years will reveal it has collected a disgusting toxic goo under, which seeps out endlessly when you try to clean it up. An expensive sink will have a smooth easily cleaned transition between porcelain and vanity top."

Strange, that they might want to pass on the greater engineering cost of designeing for actual use rather than minimal production cost to the consumer.

I have found that (most) expensive things ( cars, washers, dryers, etc) sem to last longer than the cheaper ones. My solution has been to get the top of the line either used, or after a new model has come out.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 02:28 PM

I find that it is the older things that seem to work better and last longer. An old blender we picked up at a thrift store has a glass bowl that cleans perfectly in the dishwasher.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 02:32 PM

True.

I collect cast iron cookery, and find the 1920s- 1930s seems to be the peak of quality. The cast iron after that point ( ie, after alluminum became the standard for pots) seems porous and brittle.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 02:34 PM

Also, the older items that are so good are

1. the ones that survived to today
2. Often quite expensive in cost at the time they were new
3. made of materials that would be cost-prohibitive today


100!