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BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs

Peace 21 Mar 06 - 07:33 PM
Little Hawk 21 Mar 06 - 07:36 PM
bobad 21 Mar 06 - 07:39 PM
Peace 21 Mar 06 - 07:41 PM
Scoville 21 Mar 06 - 08:09 PM
GUEST,Nancy King at work 21 Mar 06 - 08:14 PM
Amos 21 Mar 06 - 08:42 PM
wysiwyg 21 Mar 06 - 08:57 PM
Elmer Fudd 21 Mar 06 - 09:36 PM
frogprince 21 Mar 06 - 09:59 PM
number 6 21 Mar 06 - 10:39 PM
Elmer Fudd 21 Mar 06 - 10:50 PM
Peace 21 Mar 06 - 11:22 PM
number 6 21 Mar 06 - 11:24 PM
Peace 21 Mar 06 - 11:24 PM
number 6 21 Mar 06 - 11:25 PM
Elmer Fudd 21 Mar 06 - 11:35 PM
number 6 21 Mar 06 - 11:38 PM
number 6 21 Mar 06 - 11:42 PM
The Shambles 22 Mar 06 - 12:00 AM
jacqui.c 22 Mar 06 - 07:50 AM
John MacKenzie 22 Mar 06 - 07:56 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 06 - 07:58 AM
Once Famous 22 Mar 06 - 08:24 AM
Charley Noble 22 Mar 06 - 08:43 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 06 - 09:10 AM
Peace 22 Mar 06 - 02:43 PM
Mr Red 23 Mar 06 - 08:00 AM
Bunnahabhain 23 Mar 06 - 08:35 AM
Charley Noble 23 Mar 06 - 09:21 AM
Elmer Fudd 23 Mar 06 - 11:24 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Mar 06 - 02:11 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 23 Mar 06 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,ClaireBear 23 Mar 06 - 03:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Mar 06 - 04:44 PM
Janice in NJ 24 Mar 06 - 08:02 AM
Mr Red 24 Mar 06 - 09:32 AM
SINSULL 24 Mar 06 - 09:33 AM
Elmer Fudd 24 Mar 06 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,Lanfranc the Cookieless 24 Mar 06 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,heric 24 Mar 06 - 03:57 PM

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Subject: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Peace
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 07:33 PM

Just a thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 07:36 PM

"To Be Alone With You" - Bob Dylan

"New Morning" - Bob Dylan

"Only You"

Hell, there must be a million of them...


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: bobad
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 07:39 PM

Love Me Do


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Peace
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 07:41 PM

Cool.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Scoville
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 08:09 PM

I think "Hot Buttered Rum" is gender-neutral (sorry, I don't have the words in front of me), or at least lends itself well to pronoun-switching.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: GUEST,Nancy King at work
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 08:14 PM

"I think of you," by Utah Phillips


BTW, why is this thread in the BS section? Looks like a music thread to me...

Nancy


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 08:42 PM

Who'd want to sing a gender-neutral love song? LOL

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 08:57 PM

Lots of old ones-- you want just folk songs?

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 09:36 PM

Basically, any love song addressed to "you" that doesn't identify or describe the person being addessed. Off the top of my head:

In My Life - The Beatles

You Send Me - Sam Cooke

S'Wonderful - Gershwins

ad infinitum


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: frogprince
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 09:59 PM

Take one fresh and tender kiss
Add one stolen night of bliss
One being, another being, some grief, something...
Memories are made of this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: number 6
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 10:39 PM

"Gentle on my Mind" by John Hartford

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 10:50 PM

Wind Beneath My Wings


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Peace
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:22 PM

Anything by Beethoven.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: number 6
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:24 PM

did he write lyrics ?

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Peace
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:24 PM

No.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: number 6
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:25 PM

That's what I thought.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:35 PM

English translation of Beethoven's libretto for the fourth movement of his 9th Symphony which was based on Friedrich Schiller's ode, "To Joy":

Oh friends, no more of these sad tones!
Let us rather raise our voices together
In more pleasant and joyful tones.
Joy!
Joy, thou shining spark of God,
Daughter of Elysium,
With fiery rapture, goddess,
We approach thy shrine.
Your magic reunites
That which stern custom has parted;
All humans will become brothers
Under your protective wing.

Let the man who has had the fortune
To be a helper to his friend,
And the man who has won a noble woman,
Join in our chorus of jubilation!
Yes, even if he holds but one soul
As his own in all the world!
But let the man who knows nothing of this
Steal away alone and in sorrow.
All the world's creatures drink
From the breasts of nature;
Both the good and the evil
Follow her trail of roses.
She gave us kisses and wine
And a friend loyal unto death;
She gave the joy of life to the lowliest,
And to the angels who dwell with God.
Joyous, as his suns speed
Through the glorious order of Heaven,
Hasten, brothers, on your way,
Joyful as a hero to victory.
Be embraced, all ye millions!
With a kiss for all the world!
Brothers, beyond the stars
Surely dwells a loving Father.
Do you kneel before him, oh millions?
Do you sense the Creator's presence?
Seek him beyond the stars!
He must dwell beyond the stars.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: number 6
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:38 PM

Andrea Bocelli's "Mi Chiamano Mim�"

Tomorrow

You know
The time we have
Is not enough to understand.
Tomorrow is never enough,
We think that tomorrow
Something will change,
And we get lost in yesterday

You know
The time we have
Is not enough to understand
If you love me.
Love,
the words tremble.
Life brings suffering -
let us not get lost,
love

In the end we're sowing
Desires and hopes into the wind;
I don't know where, I don't know when
This flower will open on to the world
Where I will live forever, where I will be
With you

Tomorrow -
You think that tomorrow
Something will change,
And we get lost in yesterday.

You know
The time we have
Is not enough to say
What I feel

Love,
We are never satisfied -
And it is never enough for us,
And nothing is ever enough for us.

Tomorrow -
We think that tomorrow
Something will change,
And we get lost in yesterday


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: number 6
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:42 PM

Thanks for posting that Elmer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 12:00 AM

This is BS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 07:50 AM

Song For A Winter's Night

Let It Be Me

Love Me Tender


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 07:56 AM

Mimi?


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 07:58 AM

Pedantic note - "gender" just means "kind". For example rich, poor, English, tall, short... Everyone belongs to numerous genders.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 08:24 AM

Most love songs are this way. That does not mean they were written with a gender-neutral intention.

But like most ultra-liberal slants, go ahead and make up your own rules as you go along.

You're right Shambles. This is truly BS and not about music.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 08:43 AM

My Mother used to sing my brother and me a gender-neutral love song. As a matter of fact it was a species-neutral love song. I believe the lyrics ran (zip in your favorite animal for more verses and accumulate them in the chorus):

I love my rooster, my rooster loves me;
I cherish my rooster by the sycamore tree;
My little old rooster goes "Cockadoddle-doo,
Doddilly-doddily-doddily-doo!"

Lots of fun! We always added lots of farm animals but Mother being Mother would add in an occasional wombat or gnu just to keep it interesting.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 09:10 AM

I suspect that "rooster" had had his title adjusted...


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Peace
Date: 22 Mar 06 - 02:43 PM

sIx:

After Elmer's post, YES.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 08:00 AM

The First Time Ever I saw Your Face

(if my memory serves me well)


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 08:35 AM

Well, thinking laterally ( which according to my better half is about the closest I come to actual thought), quite a few requiems are love songs. I'm thinkinng of the very tender pieces of music, full of longing ,and love

The best example of the type is probably the Brams Requiem, whose original title was 'a human requiem' I have never heard any other piece of music that moved me so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 09:21 AM

It seems like "species-neutral" love songs run in my family, not that anyone is really interested in my family but I am. This one should appeal more to the puerient. The song is one my uncle used to sing us children called "The Lady Who Loved a Swine" based on a 17th century old English ballad and there was a special part that we could sing along on:

There was a lady who loved a swine,
"Honey!" said she,
"Pig hog wilt thous be mine?"
"GRUNT!" said he.

"I'll build thee a silver sty,
Honey," said she,
"And in it thous shalt lie."
"GRUNT!" said he.

"I'll pin it with a silver pin,
Honey!" said she,
"That thou mayest walk out or in."
"GRUNT!" said he.

"Wilt thou have me now," said she,
"Honey?" said she.
"Speak! Or my heart will break for thee."
"GRUNT!" said he.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:24 AM

sIx and Peace: Evidently Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" was not gender-neutral, because he referred to joy as a daughter and a goddess. Well dang. Now I know why I'm cranky.

Martin, I don't know what gender-neutral love songs have to do with liberal politics. Whomever the songwriter intended the song for originally--assuming he or she wrote it with a specific person in mind--hardly matters, does it? Unless they are openly gay, performers are left with a conundrum when they want to sing a love song addressed to someone of their own gender. Do they keep the integrity of the song, or do they change the sex of the person they are singing about? Various performers have made various choices, with varying results. For instance, Ella Fitzgerald changed the standard, "Have You Met Miss Jones?" to "Have You Met Sir Jones?" It sounded really dumb. The song was famous enough and so was Ella to let both stand. Judy Collins changed Robin Williamson's "The First Girl I Loved" to "The First Boy I Loved" and changed the line, "I remember your long red hair falling in our faces as I kissed you" to "...falling in our faces as you kissed me," making the boy the active kisser. Interesting things to ponder.

Elmer


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 02:11 PM

Why shouldn't someone with long red hair be a bloke anyway?

Morer often than not love songs don't get round to describing the person they are addressed to anyway - the crucial aspect is that the song is saying "I love you", and maybe explaining how that feels. Leaves it open whether "you" is a man, a woman (or a horse for that matter).


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 02:29 PM

If you want sources for gender-neutral love songs, look at the repertoires of most successful gay and lesbian performers. They can't honestly aim their lyrics at the opposite sex, can they? But if they pine longingly for members of their own sex they risk alienating hetero fans, not to mention pretty much killing the chances of a song getting any airplay.

I've heard quite a few songs by Melissa Ethridge and The Indigo Girls and have yet to hear one where a lover's gender was mentioned. Granted, I'm not a tremendous fan of either and my exposure has been limited to radio. There may well be more blatantly homo-erotic lyrics on CD cuts that I've not heard.

And, of course, there are gay and lesbian performers who couldn't care less about mainstream success who cater to a gay/lesbian audience. Their material would likely be anything but gender-neutral.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 03:19 PM

Lord Byron's "So We'll Go No More A-Roving," (the Dyer-Bennett setting?) as sung by, for instance, Joan Baez back in the day. It's not in the DT, but it crops up time and again in the forum, including here.

Claire


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 04:44 PM

I just did a check on a random site with lyrics of modern Love Songs which I googled up - after glancing through a couple of dozen it confiormed my impression that virtually all of them could be sung by a man to a woman, by a woman to a man, or by a man to a man or a woman to a woman.

Love songs that are specific about the sex of the person singing and the sex of the person addressed are in fact pretty few and far between.

That even goes for "cheatin' songs", to a lesser extent, though they tend to have more of a storyline in them, and that tends to tie down the facts a bit more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 08:02 AM

Save the Last Dance for Me by Doc Pomus and Mort Schuman can work either way. You have to do some gal/guy, she/he, and her/him substitutions, but they don't change the feeling or the meaning of the song. What is really great is that Save the Last Dance for Me works equally well for monoamories of any orientation, identification and expression, i.e. straights, bis, lesbians, gays, and trannies. It's only with polyamories that it loses its punch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 09:32 AM

the only straight dance I can think of is a line dance



NO THANKS....................


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 09:33 AM

If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 10:56 AM

Naw, sorry, Sins. The last verse begins:

Turn those heartaches right into joy;
She's a girl, you're a boy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: GUEST,Lanfranc the Cookieless
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 11:14 AM

Most love songs can be tweaked to reverse the direction of flow from male to female or female to male. If this proves tricky, one can always do the traditional thing and add a first verse that goes something like: "As I walked out on a May morning, I met a fair maiden/young fellow and this song she/he did sing." which is the usual device to make a woman's song singable by a bloke.

On the subject of men with long red hair, does anyone else remember Moxie, a notorious London blues harp player back in the 60s and 70s? Better yet, does anyone know what happened to him?

Alan


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Subject: RE: BS: Gender-neutral Love Songs
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 03:57 PM

Stand By Your Man


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Mudcat time: 23 July 1:49 PM EDT

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