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Lyr Req: Old Pendle (Milton Allen, Brian Osborne)

Related threads:
Folklore: Hunting the witch at Pendle Hill (55)
(origins) Origins: Pendle, oh Pendle / Old Pendle (35)


GUEST,John 28 Mar 06 - 07:49 AM
Mark Dowding 28 Mar 06 - 08:15 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 28 Mar 06 - 08:51 AM
GUEST 28 Mar 06 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 28 Mar 06 - 09:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Mar 06 - 03:31 AM
Ep' Eric 29 Mar 06 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,John 29 Mar 06 - 12:12 PM
Scotus 29 Mar 06 - 01:59 PM
Ep' Eric 30 Mar 06 - 03:14 PM
Bernard 31 Mar 06 - 02:55 PM
s&r 31 Mar 06 - 05:53 PM
s&r 31 Mar 06 - 06:04 PM
Bernard 01 Apr 06 - 05:22 AM
Ep' Eric 01 Apr 06 - 04:01 PM
s&r 02 Apr 06 - 05:33 AM
GUEST,Penny Black 02 Apr 06 - 02:33 PM
s&r 03 Apr 06 - 02:51 PM
GUEST,Penny Black 03 Apr 06 - 03:45 PM
Ep' Eric 03 Apr 06 - 04:45 PM
Susanne (skw) 03 Apr 06 - 06:51 PM
GUEST,Penny Black 03 Apr 06 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,PB 03 Apr 06 - 08:23 PM
s&r 06 Apr 06 - 02:30 PM
Bernard 06 Apr 06 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,henryp 26 Mar 17 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,Smiffy 19 Jan 18 - 07:42 AM
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Subject: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: GUEST,John
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 07:49 AM

Can anyone supply the words to Old Pendle please?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:15 AM

Old Pendle
(arr. Brian Osborne)
Chorus:

Pendle, old Pendle, thou standest alone.
Twixt Burnley and Clitheroe, Whalley and Colne,
Where Hodder and Ribble's fair waters do meet
With Barley and Downham content at thy feet.

1.
Pendle, old Pendle, majestic, sublime
Thy praises shall ring till the end of all time
Thy beauty eternal, thy banner unfurled,
Th'art dearest and grandest old hill in the world
Chorus:

2.
When witches fly out on a dark rainy night,
We'll not tell a soul, and we'll bar the door tight,
We'll sit near to t' fire, and keep ourselves warm
Until once again we can walk on thy arm.

Chorus:

3.
Pendle, old Pendle, by moorland and fell
In glory and loveliness, ever to dwell
On life's faithful journey, where e'er I may be,
I'll pause in my labours, and oft think of thee.

Chorus:

Cheers
Mark


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:51 AM

See also the thread: Folklore: Hunting the witch at Pendle Hill for information and some other sets of words, including original poem.

Mick


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Subject: Lyr Add: OLD PENDLE (Brian Osborne, Milton Allen)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 09:18 AM

From the Taverner's Songbook 1973

"...two brothers Milton and Allen Lambert, writing under the pen name of Milton Allen wrote a song called 'Old Pendle'.
Some fifteen years ago Brian [Osborne] discovered the words, added a verse, and wrote the music, unknowing that music already existed. The song became very popular, and then we [Taverners] were accused of 'stealing' the song. Eventually with the aid of newspaper articles, and some lengthy correspondence with an old friend of the Lamberts, we managed to piece the story together. The episode came to a happy end when we received word from one of the Lamberts saying he was delighted with Brian's song."

The Taverners were a Blackpool group who had much success, and consisted of Alan Bell, 'Big' Pete Roger, Stuart Robinson and Brian Osborne. Brian and Pete are sadly no longer with us. Stuart and Alan both still play music. Alan is known as MD of Fylde Festival and of Folkus, and is a prolific songwriter.

In the interests of accuracy I have appended the words as in the Songbook. No chorus is shown, but the first verse is often used as a chorus

Old Pendle
(Music and some lyrics Brian Osborne
Original Lyrics Milton Allen)


Old Pendle, old Pendle, thou standest alone.
Twixt Burnley and Clitheroe, Whalley and Colne,
Where Hodder and Ribble's fair waters meet
With Barley and Downham content at thy feet.

Old Pendle, old Pendle, majestic, sublime
Thy praises shall ring till the end of all time
In beauty eternal, thy banner unfurled,
Thou art dearest and grandest old hill in the world

When witches fly out on a cold winter's night,
We won't tell a soul, and we'll bolt the door tight,
We'll sit round the fire, and we'll keep ourselves warm
Until once again we can walk on your arms

Old Pendle old Pendle by moorland and fell
In glory and loveliness ever to dwell
Through life's fateful journey, where e're we may be
We'll pause in our labours and oft think of thee

Stu


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 09:23 AM

This song tells a story that I was promised was true...

Pendle Hill (Bliss)


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 03:31 AM

Nice one, Tom:-)


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Ep' Eric
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:42 AM

Coming from Brierfield as I do, which is a small town at the foot of Pendle Hill I have been singing this song for many years after hearing
the Taverners sing it and discussing it with them at Padiham.
My words are practically the same as quoted . When I asked them if they had ever climbed it they had to confess that they hadn't.
They all lived in the Blackpool area so this was hardly surprising,
As I had spent many happy days wandering over Pendle's vast moorland summit I thought that it lacked something in intimacy so I wrote my own final verse which no one will have heard before, apart from those who heard me in my early days at Ep'th Folk.            

There is a sloping cart track up the side of the hill which was used to carry goods over to the towns on the far side, and near the top on the steep end there is a spring which was always very cold. When this was high the locals always said that Pendle was weeping. The top was criss crossed by dry stone walls to control the sheep which grazed on it.
At one time they practiced Pace Egging by rolling eggs down it's slopes at Easter.

I have tapes of my version if anybody wants the tune which I will send to you if you care to email me at payne373@btinternet.com


                              My Final Verse

And I dream of the days on your summit I walked
And climbing your cart track with pendleside folk
                        And sleeping by wall sides encompassed by sheep.
                        And drinking cool water at springs where you weep
                                                                                 

Oh, Pendle Oh Pendle, Thou standest of old etc. etc.etc.

                                                                Eric Payne


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: GUEST,John
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:12 PM

Thanks for all your help. It will continue to be sung!


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Scotus
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 01:59 PM

I lived for a couple of years in Padiham, just beside Pendle Hill and regularly attended the weekly folk sessions in Brierfield. Happy memories.

Jack


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Ep' Eric
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 03:14 PM

Many books list the famous Lancashire Witches such as Demdike,
Southern,Nutter etc. but we were terrified by tales of Old Mother Morag who no one seems to mention.

Can anyone enlighten me?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:55 PM

A wee point...

The tune was written by Ted Edwards in 1962 for a different song, though it isn't widely acknowledged. Brian (Ted's real name is Brian!!) didn't actually claim to have written the tune... as far as I'm aware, he said he 'put the tune to the song'. However, it would seem that somehow the copyright system got the wrong end of the stick...

Ted is still alive and reasonably well... he had another fall a few weeks back, and broke some ribs, but he's chirpy enough.

If you don't accept what I've said, email him on thegarret_at_tesco.net - he will supply you with the proof!!

Replace _at_ with @ - email addresses on websites attract spam!!


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: s&r
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 05:53 PM

It would be interesting to compare the tunes Bernard - do you have the dots?

Stu


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: s&r
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 06:04 PM

Just rechecked my post quoting the taverners' songbook. The tune was it seems written by Brian Osborne in 1973-15 = 1958, four years before the date you gave.

Could it be that the tune Ted/Brian used was in fact the one written by Brian Osborne?

Stu


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:22 AM

Stu, please contact Ted - he can tell you everything you need to know.

I may have the date wrong, because I can't just put my hands on my photocopy of Ted's original. It may also be that the words were written to a tune Ted had already written. Ted was a prolific songwriter prior to his stroke in 1992, as I'm sure you are aware, and he had no need to hijack someone else's tune for a song.

I won't be seeing him until a week on Wednesday, when I will be taking him to 'Songs in the Snug' at the Railway, Heatley. We meet on the 2nd and 4th Wednesday of each month.

Please don't misunderstand my motives here, as I also knew Brian - he's been in this very house. So I'm not knocking him in any way. He was a fine singer, and his tragic accident was a great loss to us all. However, his reputation is not as a songwriter.

I do know that Ted is a little miffed at not being recognised as the tune's composer, but chooses to do nothing about it... just as he didn't pursue Reg Smythe for hijacking his original idea that became 'Andy Capp'... how odd that Ted submitted his ideas to the Daily Mirror, and even has the original rejection letter, then a few months later his idea appeared in that same newspaper with Reg Smythe's name to it...

So don't just take my word for it, email Ted, and he will furnish you with the proof... or PM Raggytash, who has also known Ted a very long time.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Ep' Eric
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 04:01 PM

Thanks for the information Bernard. I will email Ted.
I have treasured this song for 35 years or so and often wondered
about it's origins. I have been living near Doncaster during this time and visited many clubs in the area but have never heard anybody else sing it. AT last I know, much appreciated


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: s&r
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:33 AM

I have just sent the following to Ted following your suggestion Bernard.

Dear Ted

I don't think we've met, but I know of you through your writing. I've just got involved with a discussion with a friend of yours, Bernard. He wrote to Mudcat to say that you wrote the tune for 'Old Pendle'. I'm interested in this since Brian Osborne who is regarded generally as the composer was a friend, and claimed he wrote the tune for a poem (Milton Allen) in 1958.

Brian is sadly no longer with us, so at the suggestion of Bernard I am writing to you for your comments

Sincerely

Stu


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: GUEST,Penny Black
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 02:33 PM

just to add a little more - the song "Old Pendle" (yes, song there was a tune, but not Brian's, with the original words) has been published and I have a copy of the sheet music and words (minus Brian's verse)in the archives, which I will try and dig out and add the details here.

Knowing Brian as we did, no one would doubt anything he said as being true, in so much as he believed it to be a true recollection of how he came to put the words and music together and the adding of an extra verse.

Pete


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: s&r
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 02:51 PM

I agree with your comments Pete.Possibly the last conversation I had with Brian was in the Falcon; we discussed Old Pendle, and he (re)told me the story as I outlined it above. He certainly told a true story, as he saw it, and I think all would accept that Brian was an honourable man.

Prompted by this thread, I've been listening to the CD he recorded with you for the Millennium: wonderful performer (just as an aside Bernard, many of the songs were his own: he was a very competent and thoughtful songwriter)

Not heard from Ted Edwards yet - still intrigued. Perhaps my email is thrown into the spam folder.

Pete, I'd be interested in the Milton Allen version: hope you can find the dots.

Stu


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: GUEST,Penny Black
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 03:45 PM

Hi Stu - will try and have a look over the next couple of days.. but I'm afraid my music collection is not in the best of array and far too large, one day :0) plus, I'm rushing around sorting the PB A.R.C. season in between visits to Docs and BVH (Bugger I'm getting Old!)

Take care - Pete


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Ep' Eric
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 04:45 PM

Dear s&r

             I would appreciate a copy of the millenium CD you mentioned,if you don't mind. It would be a change to hear someone
elses version, for as I said previously, Iv'e never heard anyone else sing it but me.
I too have had a stroke and so can appreciate how Ted feels.
                                             
                                             Eric


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 06:51 PM

Just to muddy the waters even further: Colin Wilkie wrote a song 'You Won't Get Me Down In Your Mine' in or shortly after 1963, and says he has never heard of a song about Old Pendle. Yet the tune sounds very very similar to me. Colin can't remember where it came from, or whether it came from anywhere but his own mind. Huh!


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Subject: RE: Lyrics - 'Old Pendle' please
From: GUEST,Penny Black
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 08:17 PM

Brian's last CD "A Capsule in Time" (The one Stu is refering to) is available from:-

PI Recording. P.O.Box 44, Blackpool. Lancashire. UK. FY3 8GP.

PRICE: £10.00 plus £2.00 post package and insurance. (Only available for sale in the UK)

All profits from the sales of Brian's CDs now go to Charity along with profits from the annual concert held in his memory.

The songs on this CD are as follows N.B. 'Old Pendle' is not on this CD.


Brian Osborne - A Capsule in Time.
Dedicated to my wife Jean who shared the journey

1) Millennium*
2) Why Worry
3) What Colour is the Wind
4) In Winter it's nice to be Married*
5) Be thou my Vision
6) The Shearings not for You
7) Capital Ship
8) Breams
9) The Water is Wide
10) Brian's Rag (Instrumental)*
11) The Photograph*
12) The Turning World*
13) The Parting Glass

*att Osborne.


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Subject: Lyr Add: DREAMS (Stephen Geyer)
From: GUEST,PB
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 08:23 PM

**track 8 should read "Dreams" (Geyer)- this one..

DREAMS

There are dreams that sail away to sea
And some that stay at home
There are dreams in need of company
And some that stand alone
There are dreams that stay inside all day
And never see the light
And if dreams come true
I swear to you
I'll dream of you tonight

In a corner bar the local star
Destroys a passing chord
He sits behind a Mason jar
And dreams of his reward
Then he takes his break
And he counts his take
A dollar buys a beer
A quarter of his life is gone
And what's he doing here

Times are hard
The old backyard is covered in cement
The people seem afraid to dream
And dream don't cost a cent

There are dreams that stay inside all day
And never see the light
And if dreams come true
I swear to you
I'll dream of you tonight
And if dreams come true
I swear to you
I'll dream of you tonight

Words and Music by Stephen Geyer


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Pendle (Milton Allen, Brian Osborne)
From: s&r
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 02:30 PM

Hi Bernard

Any comment from Ted - I've had no reply to my email, and I wondered if the subject arose on your Wednesday trip

Stu


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Pendle (Milton Allen, Brian Osborne)
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 07:39 PM

I won't see him until next week - the 'Songs in the Snug' are 2nd & 4th Wednesdays...

I'm surprised you've not had a reply, though.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Pendle (Milton Allen, Brian Osborne)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 08:52 AM

Friends from Burnley and Clitheroe requested an extra verse to sing on International Women's Day, so I offered them this;

Pendle, old Pendle, you've seen it before
The hardship of labour, the horror of war
We'll work with our sisters, sunrise to nightfall
To build a new world that is fit for us all

John Jordan arranged The Voice of the People, a Chartist song by WHC. His bass part is very close to the melody of Old Pendle!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Pendle (Milton Allen, Brian Osborne)
From: GUEST,Smiffy
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 07:42 AM

Hindle Wakes have this song on their new album "Another Side of....." with a new verse written by Ian Smith
"There's Snowden and Snaefell and Nevis and all
But against all these mountains you're still standing tall
Your crest is in Heaven, your roots are in Hell,
Oh Pendle fair Pendle we love you right well"


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