BS: serious advice needed

Subject: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 08:33 PM

The English son of a great friend who is a fine musician plans to walk soon from Chicago to New Orleans. He will be carrying a guitar case and plans to do some singing when he can. We were talking about weather, hot and humid, and he said he'd be knocking on people's doors asking for water probably.
Now the States he will be going through on this journey which will take in Nashville don't strike me as the best places to go on people's property, particulalrly if you are walking in a country where hardly anybody ever does. Carrying a guitar, a backpack, and speaking in a foreign accent can also be added in to the equation.
I ask our American friends for sincere advice to this young man. I told him in certain States he could be legally shot for going on someone's property. I may be wrong in this, but what would you like to tell him before he sets out?

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 08:58 PM

Unfortunately, I believe that your fears for your friend's son are well founded.

If he does decide to do a walkathon, in my opinion it would be far too dangerous for him to knock on doors of private residences asking for water or for anything else.

If he is not able to carry bottled water, he should be prepared to buy water at gas stations.

This is not a good reflection on the nation that I love. But you did asked for opinions-and this is mine.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Janie
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:00 PM

Sad as it is to say, I don't think he would be wise to plan on knocking on doors to ask for water in ANY State. In most places that would be considered an intrusive and somewhat bizarre thing to do. People would tend to be very suspicious. He probably wouldn't get shot (although that could happen.) But he would often be denied, probably get dog-bit several times, would scare people, and cops WILL be called to check him out or move him along.

    There probably will be convenience stores/gas stations at somewhat reasonable intervals where he could fill up a canteen.

    Wish him safe journey for me.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:06 PM

advise him to watch the DVD "Deliverance"

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:24 PM

Get a 'camel' back pack....made for cyclers....tube to the mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:29 PM

Walk from Chicago to New Orleans?

Why in the world would anyone want to do that? I'm guessing that's 1500-2000 miles. Does this musician have any idea how long it would take?

If you're concerned about him, get him to rethink the whole concept.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:29 PM

Why knock anywhere? There ARE public water fountains in parks where he can refill. As well as in public buildings.

A better question might be, where are there Mudcatters along the way to offer a friendly face and a chance to swap songs?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:41 PM

They can't legally shoot him just for being on their property. That doesn't mean they won't, but most Americans really aren't that crazy. It's more likely they won't answer the door or just ask him to go away. I honestly don't think we're that bad. Ask the people here what they'd do, not what they think other people would. People will help often go out of their way to help you, then warn you not to trust anybody because people won't ever help, only hurt you. If it were me, I'd probably avoid private homes just because I'd feel uncomfortable knocking.

He's going to be walking over 900 miles. Some of this is going to be through farmland where he might walk for a very long time witout seeing a house. It's illegal to hitch-hike here, although people do it. It's illegal for pedestrians to use toll roads.

I think the main thing I'd tell him is to buy a bus ticket. Since he wants to walk, I'd say plan his route so he can get to towns. Midwest towns may not have a center, and be strung out along stretches of road. Truck stops may have showers and rooms. Gas (petrol) stations often have convenience stores. If he wants decent tea, bring his own. He should let someone know his itinerary and keep in touch on the road. During late spring and summer, have bug repellent and sunscreen.

Sorry this is so rambling - I'm just brainstorming.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:52 PM

The shortest land route from Chicago to NO is about 925 miles (1,489 km.). That takes in Memphis, but not Nashville. After walking from Chicago to Cairo, that would be sort of following the Mississippi River. Assuming that he can walk four miles per hour the whole way, he'll be on the road for better than 231 hours, or close to 10 days -- and he can't do it because that's walking all day everyday, with not even a bathroom break.

Most likely he'll average about 2 miles per hour (467 hours, more or less), or about three weeks. But then, you'd better figure six weeks, because he'll probably want to eat, sleep, rest, take toilet breaks, and so on. If he wants to sight-see or take a rest from walking for a couple days -- I'd figure eight weeks, most likely.

The US is big.

And it's better to fill up a canteen in a park or gas station than to ask for water at someone's house. I doubt that he'd be shot (and no, it's NOT legal to shoot someone just for coming on your property, not even in the South!), but someone might very well call the cops.

And do NOT NOT NOT expect to hitchhike!

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Deckman
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 10:09 PM

My advice to him would be ... GO FOR IT!!! He'll find some dangers, he may die, but he will also find find open hearts and homes. He'll soon learn how to present himself in a non-threatening manner. I do feel that America is very tramatized these days by both 9/11 and by President bush's reaction, meaning the invasion of Iraq. We are certainly more paranoid than five years ago. But we are still a basically friendly and inviting people.

Besides, look at the wonderfull stories he can tell the grandkids! CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 10:52 PM

My ancient DeLorme CD map calculates the shortest distance from Metro Center Chicago to Metro Center New Orleans at 909 miles.

The Preferred Route, Scenic Route, and Quickest Route all indicate 926 miles and essentially show the same route.

Note that he cannot use any of these routes since pedestrians are prohibited on all Interstate highways, and on most major highways near metro areas. Also prohibited on most of the same routes are hitchhiking, bicycles, horses and other animals, and any vehicles unable to maintain minimum speeds of 40 to 45 mph.

He will need to plan carefully to find a route that even goes from Chicago to New Orleans where it is legal to walk. This will take some detailed study of maps and perhaps hiking guides (if any are available.) I would expect to add 30% to the highway miles above for a usable walking route - and in some areas there may not be a route one can walk safely. Bicycling clubs may have info, since most routes where you can legally bicycle would also permit walking.

He likely will not find too much really unfriendly treatment in real rural areas, especially if the locals have heard about "the hiker with the guitar;" but he may encounter a good bit of suspicion. One method sometimes successful is to check in with local police and/or newspapers at each town along the planned route, and ask them to inform the next town or two before he gets there. With adequate publicity he may find locals fairly friendly, especially in small towns. Lots of the small towns don't have newspapers, or publish only weekly, so getting the needed publicity may require advance contacts.

The greatest real danger probably is from isolated individual muggers, thieves, and other malfit individuals. A walking route may also run through some rather "wild" country, and camping out may risk hazards from critters.

Most parts of the US were settled when a "day trip" to town and back couldn't be much over 15 miles or so, so towns tend to be around 20 or 30 miles apart. I don't have enough detailed knowledge of the areas through which he might travel to assure that this will hold true there now. In many of these small towns, there may be "nobody home" when he goes through, as today's more mobile population tends to shop at larger towns and there are no "businesses" in many of the remaining small ones. "Significant" towns, where there's likely to be some kind of funcitonal business tend toward about 70 miles apart in much of the country. Again I can't vouch for this on his route. There are places where there's 150 miles of very lonesome road between recognizable houses in many parts of the US, and they're usually in areas physically inhospitable to tender critters like musicians.

Busking is considered begging and is likely to be illegal in many places, so planning on paying his way with music needs careful prior investigation. Any other kinds of "odd jobs" to earn his way across are likely to be difficult to find. Carrying significant amounts of cash may be risky.

Even if he can plan a nominally safe route, travelling with at least a couple of others would be a lot safer.

Just a few random thoughts ....

John

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:01 PM

May I assume that your friend's son is White?

If not, the danger factor is greatly increased.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:07 PM

I'm not telling him not to do it. Just tossing out some facts.

Having said all that, I agree with Deckman and JiK. He may even be able to swap songs and music for a place to stay -- contacting a public library in advance, for instance, might be a way (especially in rural areas and small towns) to barter a program for a bed for the night and a hot meal or two. And there are still trains (Amtrak) and friendly folks who might drive you to the next town (again, DON'T hitchhike!).

Shucks, in some small towns you could probably do the old bit of swapping a bit of music for a night in a cell with door open and a hot breakfast the next morning -- but a local church would be better!

I would suggest checking in at regular intervals via a telephone or email (again, check the local public library).

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:21 PM

If he comes around here, he might not ever make it out of here. All it takes is one wrong turn.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:27 PM

I hear THAT Martin. Last thing I knew I was making a left near the Loop and here I am in Alberta. Listen to the man; he ain't kiddin'.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:37 PM

PURCHASE a "water-bottle" and fill from taps.

The two dollarsUS is cheaper than 2000BP for cremation and transport home.

The USA is no longer 1965-1975 "Easy Rider" euphoria.

It is lean, it is mean, it is hungry for $100 fixes (guitars and piks)

Say NIX to your friend's son trip.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

keep your currency in your vest, in your pocket, in your boots....they may steal two but seldom get all three.

Scan an save Passports, Birth Certificates, credentials, published articles in a secure website than can be EASILY accessed from a police station - include multiple photos on the photo-site.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:41 PM

Make sure they ain't good boots--or they'll be gone, too.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:44 PM

And he better be carrying a lousy guitar, like a Yamaha for example. And tell him not to leave boogers on those water fountains.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:46 PM

He's better off carrying his water with him. I don't know what kind of water is coming out of taps in the gulf states these days, and there are a lot of crazies out there, and some of them own homes.
Of course some of them will invite your son home and cook him a large meal, and Southern cuisine takes some beating. I'd suggest he find people to walk with. Now I'd just love to know what comes to a Briton's mind the first time he's offered my favorite breakfast, biscuits and gravy. (The best I ever had came from a cafe' in Ravenswood, a Chicago neighborhood.)

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:47 PM

Just returned from the continent.

There is security in "Big Brother."

I "feel" MUCH safer in the UK, France, NL than my home-town USA.

In European countries - I, perhaps, live under a delusional umbrella of: "So what if the "b-stards" take me out....at least there is a camera to record the event and deal justice to perpatrator."

In the USA, two juevenial's testimony is enough to send a 40 y.o., with a flawless-record, to jail for 25 years to life.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:48 PM

In some areas, small town libraries may have a good Internet connection, and might be willing to let you email a message home; but they tend to be full of books with not much room for holding a concert. They also tend to have short/irregular hours. Libraries with "meeting rooms" tend to be found only in fairly large metro areas.

Some bicyclists have recently reported friendly treatment and use of an empty jail cell for "overnights" from police in the SW US, but this may vary somewhat elsewhere. Many communities now are complaining about local jails being seriously over capacity, so in areas where this is common you may not find an accomodation that way.

It probably still would be a good idea to "stop in and say howdy" to the local police, at least in the towns of moderate size, just so someone knows your progress.

In really small towns, if there is a local restaurant/diner you might have some luck playing for a meal and loose change, or they may be able to suggest another venue. It's really difficult to predict what opportunities may come up, so being "creative and flexible" is about the only good advice. In the small towns, if they have one, the Post Office may be the only thing with a living person visible in it; but whoever (if anyone) is there may be willing to talk.

I believe that a lot of the indicated route is through pretty decent mountain country, so a sturdy walkin' stick can sometimes be a help. A hoe handle from any hardware store, with or without a "crutch tip" makes a pretty decent one that shouldn't be too expensive to leave standing against a tree somewhere if it gets in the way.

While you can't hike on the interstates or major highways, if you can parallel one so that there's an occasional "truck stop" you can reach, it may be possible to find a trucker willing to take you along for a ways. It's extremely variable. Some simply don't, but a fair number seem to be willing to take a rider on occasion. Be advised that all interstate drivers are lunatics and "barroom lawyers" when they're not ranting about their religion, and the ride may be a bit scary with some (on the authority of my son, the interstate truck driver, among others).

Avoid ever eating at a truck stop if there's any alternative. The myth about good food where all the truckers go is just a myth. The only reason even the truckers eat their swill is that's the only place you can park a truck. (Possibility of rare exceptions to be duly noted, of course.) Also, if visiting truck stops, be aware of the common vermin, called "lot lizards" by the truckers. They all have communicable nasty diseases.

John

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:49 PM

I know the Ravenswood neighborhood. It's not far from the Old Town School of Folk Music and is on the North side. You got to get some good bacon with those biscuits and gravy. and then have an Italian beef sandwich for luunch and a cheddarburger or a hot dog with cheese fries for dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:59 PM

"It probably still would be a good idea to "stop in and say howdy" to the local police, at least in the towns of moderate size, just so someone knows your progress"

HA!!!

See my 30 Mar 06 - 11:01 PM post.

If there were more African Americans and other people of color posting on this discussion forum, somebody would have said what ever the modern form of "RIght on" is by now... But just because I feel like it, I'm gonna point out that no right thinking person of color would go on walkabout in this here US of A and if he or she did he {or she} would certainly not stop in and say howdy to the police...
and if he {or she} did the police would probably NOT be friendly.

And that's the truth as I know it.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 12:00 AM

Amen to THAT.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 12:09 AM

Thanks, Bruce. I needed that.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: MBSLynne
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:25 AM

"Easy Rider Euphoria"????? They got SHOT for Gods' sakes!

Personlly, I like Deckman's advice.

In the 70s I spent 6 months hitching round Britain and Europe and it was the best time I've had in my whole life. I know everyone will say "This isn't the 70s" and I know things have changed a bit, but on the other hand, people at the time were horrified when we said we were going to hitch. White slave trade was often mentioned and all sorts of comments on kidnap, rape and murder. Ok it may have been a risk, but in the event, the vast majority of people went out of their way to help and to be friendly, hospitable etc. I know Europe isn't the US either. We never knocked on any doors though, and I'm not sure that is a good idea. Even I might be a bit suspicious of someone doing that

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:35 AM

Many thanks all. You've voiced some of my doubts. Yes he is white. The guitar is a fairly old three quarter sized Gibson. He intends to camp out.He hopes to make a book from the trip.He has been to the US before but travelled round by car and had a good time. But walking is SO different isn't it?
Any more advice is welcome as he will be reading your thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Grab
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 06:33 AM

If he's English and expecting to be able to walk like he does over here, he's in for a serious surprise. I didn't realise quite how different the US and UK environments until I went over. And that goes double for pedestrians - there just *aren't* any.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: kendall
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 07:37 AM

Walking is an un natural act in America.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 07:45 AM

That's true... my father in law, whilst staying with his sister in law in New Amsterdam, decided to walk down to the shop for a newspaper - a walk of about 10-15 mins. He wasn't halfway there before a cop car pulled up and asked if he was OK or had had his car stolen.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: wordfella
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 07:53 AM

If the Chicago-to-NOLA journey takes him near Canton, IL, he'll have food, water, and a bed, along with some good bass fishing!

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 07:56 AM

Why walk when you can ride?

The food is better here for sure. He might not want to go back to boiled potatoes.

welcome to America!

"See the USA in your Chevrolet. America is the greatest land of all."
                   .................Dinah Shore

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: MBSLynne
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 08:39 AM

"It took me four days to hitch-hike from Saginaw, I've come to look for America....." Simon & Garfunkle

"Why walk when you can ride?" You'd be amazed how much more you see when you are walking than you do when you are in a car travelling too fast

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 08:57 AM

I will note that even 'way back ca. 1965, I was stopped by police during a stroll from the Los Angeles International Airport toward Hollywood. They asked what I was doing (taking a walk) and next asked where I'd come from (from the Airport). The next question was "how'd you get here? When I pointed back down the road the direction I'd come, one of them sort of snorted and said "A white man can't walk through there." When I assured them that I'd had no problem doing so, they had a brief conversation and then allowed me to proceed, with the advice that I "take a cab back." They left muttering about "stupid hicks" or something of that sort.

I was following a posted bus route, stop-to-stop, at a "casual stroll" pace, so it took about 4 hours. I did not see any public transportation in the entire ~13.5 mile walk. The cab back, because I was a little tired from the walk and some sight-seeing at the end of it, was $26.

John

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 08:59 AM

The Rails-to-Trails organization sponsors the conversion of unused railroad rights-of-way to hiking and cycling trails, and there are a lot of them, all over the country, and there is an effort being made to connect them up. As far as I know, there is no all-inclusive map of them, but a little time (a lot of time) at this site might elicit a good set of guidelines.

The Adventure Cycling Association sells a good set of maps designed for long-distance cyclists, about which they say Our maps include information not available on typical road maps designed for motorists. For example, the locations of bike shops, sources for food and water, and listings of overnight accommodations (especially camping facilities and small motels) are primary features of our maps. They have a north-south route here that goes from eastern Iowa (not all that far from Chicago) to the New Orleans area. They set up their routes on roads without much traffic and with wide shoulders if possible.

Most Americans are super-friendly and he would probably be overwealmed with offers of meals and accomodations. However, there are a few yahoos out there.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 09:05 AM

The young fellow better start learning to play "Duelling Banjos"

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:13 AM

I think it would probably be sensible to take a punt paddle (ie valueless guitar). The decent one will almost certainly get damaged or stolen or lost. My late wife's first husband's Levin Goliath was last seen floating down the Ganges.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Scoville
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:20 AM

It will be hot and humid, and buggy down south. We have encephalitis and West Nile here, too. Bring bug spray. We also have alligators (but I don't know of any spray repellants against those).

Frankly, it sounds like a bad idea to me. If he insists on doing it and can make contacts with safe acquaintances ahead of time to find places to stay, he needs to do it. I don't like to be a spoil sport but I would have very serious worries about the safety of doing this unless one had pre-arranged stop points (and even then, I'd be nervous).

I have to admit that my all-time worst nightmare--no sarcasm--would be to be walking alone with a guitar down a rural highway. You never know who will stop and if they're going to help you or rob you (or worse). I don't know through which states your friend's son will be walking, but a whole lot of the land between Chicago and LA is rural. A lot of people, bless their hearts, are not so used to foreigners, either, and people tend to panic when a stranger--especially one whose accent they can't understand--appears on their property.

I also want to warn him that the situation in Louisiana and some of the surrounding areas right now is still pretty unstable. Houston's crime rate has shot up this year, and I don't expect it to get any better once the FEMA aid runs out and people become even more desperate. A friend of ours had an employee car-jacked and robbed in Baton Rouge, forced to drive to NO, beaten, and left for dead. He was in a coma for a week before he finally woke up enough to give a name and phone number where his wife could be reached, and he may be disabled for life. I'm not bad-mouthing Louisiana--it's a great state and most of the people there are A-OK but there's always a handful that will spoil it for the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Scoville
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:23 AM

That's "LA"= Louisiana, as in a postal abbreviation, not "LA"= "Los Angeles". Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: JudyB
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:54 AM

Just out of curiosity, has he done any practice hikes with backpack filled to a similar weight and bulk, the hiking boots he plans to wear (snakes might be a problem some places and a twisted ankle would put a real crimp in his plans), and guitar in hand (or however he's planning to carry it - I can't figure how he can get the guitar where his shoulders or hips can take the weight while wearing a full-size backpack)?

I admit my perspective is a bit colored by old bones and a bit of arthritis - but if he's carrying even a light guitar in his hand for 8-10 hours, I'd be afraid that by evening he'd have a hard time moving his fingers enough to play for his supper. Even my baby Martin seems to gain a pound per block when I have to carry it any distance.

And I think Gargoyle's suggestion of scanning important papers and articles explaining what he's doing and why and posting them on a secure web site is a great idea (why do you put good ideas in tiny type, Gargoyle?)! He could also have some press release information on a more public site - avoids carrying multiple copies to hand out.

It does sound like a great adventure, though not one I'd want to try on my own. Keep us posted!

JudyB

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 11:55 AM

John, for heaven's sake there are no mountains between Chicago and New Orleans. Some rolling country in Tennessee, sure.

The paranoia on this thread is unbelievable. A polite fellow will find, as we all do, that 99.9% of people he encounters on the roads are not out to 'get him'. If there are stretches full of lowlifes, well, I imagine if he keeps talking to people along the way, he can easily get rerouted or score a short lift through such areas.   And once you hit the south, half the law enforcement officials are black, so let's can the "heat of the night" tales, for God's sake. And most Americans are utterly fascinated by English accents. He'll be the 'talk of the town' in some small towns and left alone in suburban sprawl.

Use public libraries, courthouses, and gas stations for bathroom facilities, and visit fire stations and antique stores to find people willing to talk. Keep a credit and debit card tucked in a sock so you don't get stranded without cash.

Plan to camp out as much as possible in state parks, and in National Forest campgrounds, and there are also some Corps of Engineer parks and county parks few people know about, etc. Find the whole network and map it out. Ask at each one where your next stop should be. Some town parks also allow low-profile overnight camping upon request, and if farmers or suburbanites get to like you, they'll also allow camping on their lawn or fields.   

If the fella is shy, he'll have a long tough trip. If he is willing to chat up everyone he meets, angels will guide him on his way.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 01:26 PM

Do common sense things to protect yourself, but pattyClink is right about the paranoia. People are generally good. The worse you believe they are, the worse they get. You can believe other people's fears, you can believe the fiction on TV, or you can believe experience and the knowledge that most people are like us.

I lost my wallet in High Shcool after I'd sold a horse for $200. Another teenager found it and returned it with the money.

I left my wallet in a liquor store in New York City. A guy chased me a block to give it back, explaining that you can't trust anybody in NY.

At a bus station in NYC, a woman asked if I needed help with my bags, and I said "yes, please." She helped me carry stuff to where I was going to wait for the bus, and told me not to say 'yes' to anybody who wanted to carry my bags because you can't trust anybody in NY.

I've been lost driving, and stopped in inner city Hartford CT to ask a group of nice African American men on the corner for directions. The helped me and then told me I should be more careful because you can't trust people in that neighborhood. Did the same thing with the same admonishion in San Antonio, TX, only these guys were teenagers.

I went somewhere with a friend and co-worker who was navigating. He apologized for directing me through a low income, mostly black neighborhood in southeast DC, and told me I should never go through there if I could help it. Not one person shot at the car.

There ARE bad people in the world, bad things CAN happen, and you DO have to be careful - within reason. Sometimes, you can invite bad things by believing they're going to happen and being a good victim. People I've known have stolen things, borrowed money and not paid me back, conned me, said or done unkind things. I've never been hurt buy a stranger that I can recall.

I think your friend's son is nuts for wanting to walk that far. I also think he could have one hell of an adventure. He should have a safety net of some sort: people to call, places to crash, money. Travellers' Checks are probably best.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:00 PM

He recently crossed the Namibian desert on foot in aid of land mine clearance I understand

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:05 PM

is he ex-army ?

that might a bonus

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:12 PM

If the part of ex-army he's from is infantry.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:29 PM

No, no military connections.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:45 PM

GUEST, wordy.

If you are a member here, please message me.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: open mike
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:29 PM

my post disappeared...
i wrote about a cross country trek
(by bicycle) that is in the planning
stages. The course of this trip will
follow the path of a peace march that
took that same trail (Los Angeles to
Wash. d.c. ) 20 years ago.

These folks are looking for a driver/
support person. www.darrlypurpose.com

long distance walks htat i have heard of
are often group activities and there is
a support vehicle that accompanies the
group. i would recommend others to go
along for safety and company.

these walks are often for a certain purpose
or benefit or statement....perhaps this
fellow could find an organized walk to join.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:40 PM

Boy, this thread says a lot. Amazing how many Americans still think of the USA as "the greatest society on Earth".

How could they think it?

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: open mike
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:37 PM

check www.peacepilgrim.com
for info about a woman
who walked with a mission..

does this fellow have any
specific reason for walking
besdies just to get there?

making a statement?
protesting something?


also John Muir walked
the appalacihian trail
among other paths..

and who was that guy
who waled alot for health
reasons? Colin Fletcher??

maybe he was the guy who liked wild hickory nuts..

this fellow would have better luck stopping at
churches..for water, bathroom etc. and bathroom
services can tend to be important...some places
condsider it a crime (as well as sanitation concerns)
to do it publicly!!

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: open mike
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:43 PM

there is a trail that some folks back pack
the Pacific Crest Trail goes from Canada
to Mexico (or the other way around.)

is this fellow planning on back packing
and hiking thru wilderness or walking thru
urban areas? there may be a trail in the
eastern us similar the pacific crest which
is an organized thorofare..

there he may find people who understand
walking and hiking...and support his ideas.

people in cities and towns may be less
aware of such goals.

http://www.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/frameindex.html?http://www.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/writings/a_thousand_mile_walk_to_the_gulf/
or search john muir thousand mile walk

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Scoville
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 05:05 PM

I'm not saying he shouldn't do it--I'm saying he shouldn't do it without planning. Not as adventurous, I'll admit, but you have to take care of yourself. The other reason he needs to have a plan is that if the weather gets bad, there is a LOT of open space in the middle of the U.S. and it may take him longer than anticipated to get to the next semi-habitable spot.

I am not paranoid. I've driven enough places alone and it doesn't scare me, but there is always the potential for something to go wrong and you have to be careful. Many cell phones don't work in rural areas--if you're between big towns and someone decides you'd make a good victim, you can't call 911. The odds are pretty good it won't happen, but it could.

Tammy Zywicki attended my college, a few years before I got there. The man who probably did this has passed away but it has never been officially solved. I was tailgated from Ames, Iowa, most of the way back to school by a guy who refused to back off, but then refused to pass me if I slowed down (he left when we got to a small town and the police were out, trolling for speeders)--I had out-of-state tags and he could probably see that I was alone. I also had friends who were followed and threatened while driving, or when fixing flats.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 09:44 PM

I know very few places in the US that will or like to take traveler's checks.

Churches in the south tend to be locked up except on Sunday morning, Wednesday evening and Sunday evening, so good luck using them as pit stops the rest of the time. Then again, you can often walk into the forest a short ways and use nature's facilities.

Scoville, road rage is certainly becoming rampant. I know in my bones that a helpless walker gets a lot more respect or slack than an out-of-state motorist.   Every time I have been working in rural areas or stranded on country roads I have been given more help than I could ever use.

Your point to be cautious is well taken, but we can all be murdered in our homes or mugged on the train.

Organized hiking on trails is great, but you don't have those Charles Kuralt experiences where you meet amazing people you never would otherwise, or see glimpses of landscapes and lives so different from your own. If all you're going to meet on the trail is other tourists, what's the point.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 01:47 AM

ARE YA CRAZY, OR WHAT?

I'm not paranoid just a realist. I've crossed this country 6 times (not including flights), by car, bus & by thumb. 4 times I did the the length of the West Coast once by car & 3 times by thumb (the last time when I got to Washington I bought a car there & drove back down again). The last time traveling like that was 25 years ago. Some people are friendly but there are alot of people that you don't want to run into in broad daylight in a populated area never mind alone on a dark deserted back woods road. Do the Mississippi by canoe other wise he may end up doing the trip by doing the dead man's float. I can't begin to tell the tales of my run ins & I consider myself to be very, VERY street wise. Spent time in jails crossing the country for just being on the road, hitch hiking in the 60's, vagrancy & even for my own protection when I didn't want it. Tried sleeping in a church, a nun put the police on me. Had police follow me until I crossed town lines & some pull me over not to offer what you want to except. Though once in the desert a guy turned around to give us a couple jugs of water & went on his way. I think that, that was the kindest experience I had on the road, though I did enjoy just about every mile of it (what young'n wouldn't). But those days are long gone. Don't try by rail unless your paying. Tried that one once, not a good idea. Tired to stowaway once too, out of NYC, again, not a good idea. Apples during the apple season & other fruits along the way will help but only a little, he'll be needing to make more uncomfortable pit stops if he tries that. He'll need more walking shoes than he can carry. During a really slow go through the south we walked ourselves out of our sneakers in 3 days or so days, had to buy new ones that lasted a little longer.
Even back then trucking outfits frowned on their drivers giving rides these days don't think for a moment that they'll lend him much aid. On the other hand if it's to late you can always count on them to pull over to get him back on your feet so's (SOS) they can take him to the nearest hospital. I'd say he's got a 20% chance of never returning and a 50% chance of making it but regretting that he ever started. I'm setting the odds of having a real great journey as slim pickings.
Much better choices are mentioned above. The organized hiking trails, the bike routes. When my brother-in-law's brother & girlfriend came over from England for an extended stay they traveled by transporting cars & did alot of incredible sightseeing & had themselves some wonderfull experiences. I don't know if one can still travel the waterways, the intercoastal highway on the east coast & the Mississippi come to mind by hitching but it still is a way you can ocean travel. Canoe? That'd be a challenge, paddle ovr 2,000 miles? The only state I'd walk is Hawaii & even there if you stray though some one's marijuana crop, even by accident that could put a sudden halt to the adventure.
It's also a very big place. He'll be passing through Kansas which is only 2,617 sq. miles smaller than all of Great Britain's 84,400 sq. miles (214,896 sq. kms). Texas which he may or may not pass through is big enough to fix 3 Great Britains into with plenty of swimming room to spare. The climates from north to south change considerably as does the countryside though these can also be good things. Louisiana, (about 1/2 the size of GB) which might be another state that he may have to pass through (44,520 sq. miles). Not long ago it was a state that truckers & seasoned road warriors & travel vets. avoided, going to great lengths to by pass their state & local police deptments on the prowl. A hiker may not have the same problem. Seems that their state zero tolerance laws & the subsquent 100% confiscating of money & property which in turned contributed to the wealth of the local authorities purses, was being over used & many crossed the line in enforcing them. This practice may have been discontinued by now.

Tell him to do it but not by feet.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:22 AM

If he's walking through Kansas, he's seriously lost!

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:29 AM

perhaps Art Garfunkel can give some practical advice on long distance hiking ?


[so what are the facts re; the 12 year "Walk across America " ?]

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 11:47 PM

"You got to get some good bacon with those biscuits and gravy."

Thats it, Martin. We now know for sure that you are not Jewish.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: open mike
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 12:21 AM

or not orthodox

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:54 PM

Hello! I'm the guy thats doing this walk! I just want to say thanks for all your advice and concern. The majority of you seem to think this is a bad idea, but if I was that easily put off then I wouldn't be the sort of person who would consider doing it in the first place. You have however convinced me that knocking on peoples doors to ask for water is a bad idea and I'm sure I would have realised that soon enough, but it sounds like there will be plenty of places for me to "Fill up". The 1350 (ish) mile route I have mapped out is through back roads and I will not be hitch hiking. I'll be camping and staying in motels/guesthouses where appropriate and don't need any paid work.
    I'm doing this route because I love all the music (blues and country) and am writing a book about the music and the people I meet along the way. I'm walking for a number of different reasons including the very fact that Americans find walking so alien! I wanted to savour the journey, and by George I just like walking! Of course I might get mugged, attacked, made to squeel like a pig, but I refuse to stay at home or water down my life simply because bad things MIGHT happen. I know the risks and I accept them.
    My experience of Americans in my past travels is some of the warmest people you could ever meet, in fact I was mugged on a past trip (the B*****ds stole my trousers!) and it was one of the best things that could have happened because of all the kindness that was shown to me by strangers afterwards and I made friends for life.
    By the way, the book is going to be called "Walking blues", now doesn't that sound like something you'd want to read?
Thanks again!
Joe

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 07:05 PM

Now you see why I was concerned for this young man. He's special!!
Thanks for your advice all!
Put me down for the first copy Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: JudyB
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 09:41 PM

Joe -

Please post again when the book comes out - I'm sure a number of us would be interested in reading it!

JudyB

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: bobad
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 09:50 PM

Good on ya Joe, go for it and have a great trip, just don't dive into the Mississippi with your boots on.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 11:19 PM

Our country is a lot different than it was when the book, A Walk Across America, was written, but I would still urge you to read it, before coming over. It is a wonderufl read and may give a feel for how it went for another young man. Here's the blurb:

Twenty-five years ago, a disillusioned young man set out on a walk across America. This is the book he wrote about that journey -- a classic account of the reawakening of his faith in himself and his country.

"I started out searching for myself and my country," Peter Jenkins writes, "and found both." In this timeless classic, Jenkins describes how disillusionment with society in the 1970s drove him out onto the road on a walk across America. His experiences remain as sharp and telling today as they were twenty-five years ago -- from the timeless secrets of life, learned from a mountain-dwelling hermit, to the stir he caused by staying with a black family in North Carolina, to his hours of intense labor in Southern mills. Many, many miles later, he learned lessons about his country and himself that resonate to this day -- and will inspire a new generation to get out, hit the road and explore.


Inside Flap Copy
"Reading Jenkins' book is the next best thing to having actually walked along beside him." Associated Press
With his own feelings echoing the disillusionment of his whole generation, Peter Jenkins set out with his dog Cooper to walk across America and find out what his country was really about. Along the way, Jenkins' faith and pride in his country -- and himself -- were tested and ultimately restored. Yours will be too as you read his amazing story. --This text refers to the Paperback edition.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 05:17 AM

Don't like the title....sounds like you're a bit pissed off before you start even. God knows how fractious you'll be after ten minutes walking through all these places.

keep the knocking on doors and asking for water. if all else fails you'll be able to do a stand up routine about what happens.   Personally speaking, I can't wait to find out.

I'd give it a dry run first in Doncaster or Wakefield. Yorkshire folk are renowned for the warmth of their hostility. You'll be able to perfect some opening gambits.

I don't think Americans can be all that bad - after all, these Mormons who knock on the door are from there. I bet they're used to it.

if all else fails you could pretend you're a thirsty Mormon.

all the best

al

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 07:46 AM

I'll definitely check out that book, sounds right up my street!
The title "Walking Blues" is a reference to the first blues song I ever learnt by Robert Johnson, and as the book was about walking and the blues, I couldn't resist. But I'm actualy a very happy person, honest!
I'm also hoping to record an acoustic blues album on the way at Sun Studios in Memphis! They have a stool waiting for me with my name on it apparently and I can't wait!
Cheers
Joe

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 02:11 PM

Good luck Joe. Stop in public libraries to email home, and why don't you post to a thread so we can track your progress, and even help if you get in a bind. ?   Or maybe wordy could keep us posted with short bulletins.

I actually logged on today to suggest some alternatives, after pondering the relentless heat and humidity you are going to be faced with.

1. Canoeing your way down on smaller streams (NOT the mighty Mississippi--way too hazardous) --navigable waterways are public right-of way. (in fact, in summer you can walk in your Tevas on shallow streams for miles, just like they were roads, it's quite delightful and shady)

2. I don't know if they still have it, RAGBRAI is in the summer in Iowa, thousands of people cross Iowa on bikes. It would be intense but a much safer way to get immersed in the heartland.

3. Walk the Natchez Trace from Nashville to Natchez. It's more isolated but low traffic with regular patrols and a decent class of traffic.

But, you seem hellbent, so Godspeed to you!

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 07:58 AM

Joe - You're tale of the lost trousers rung a bell. Was your faith restored by a former llama farmer? If not - Sorry for the confusion:-)

I have relatives some 250 miles south of Chicago - Just north of the Mississipi - If you are interested I can see if they will show you around their little neck of the woods. Good farmers market with live music and a couple of good live music bars nearby!

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 10:45 AM

Joe, go for it. I'm with PattyClink, Jeri, and some others on this thread who feel that our collective paranoia has gotten the best of us, and skewed the advice that has been given so far. Yeah, bad things happen to good people; no you shouldn't let that scare you out of living your life.

I do think that preparation makes all the difference -- physical conditioning (this ain't an easy task you've set yourself), planning the route, "getting your mind right," etc. You shoudl also build in contingencies for the unexpected difficulties you will undoubtedly encounter as you go. I would make sure you have a lifeline to someone who can get money to you if and when (and where) you need it, and I would line up a number of people along the route (friends, friends of friends, etc.) that you can call for a safe, dry place to stay and a hot meal. If you don't need it, great; if you do, you'll be glad you prepared.

I read Peter Jenkins's book "A Walk Across America" back in the 1970s, and again recently when my kids gave it to me for Fathers' Day. I also read the sequel, "The Walk West". Both books are great reads, and tell a tale that is as much about personal and spiritual growth as the experience of the walk itself; I highly recommend them. If you prepare well for your journey, it will be a life-changing experience. Good luck, and let us know how it all works out.

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 10:46 AM

Hi Dave, I guess you've been to one of my gigs then! It'd be lovely to be shown around your relatives town if its not too far off my route!
Cheers
Joe

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 10:52 AM

I'll email them later - I'll be in touch possibly via your Dad:-)

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 12:39 AM

I am not sure that there is a lot of Blues Culture or much of the sort of Country music that you imagine in downstate Illinois--and it is quite a long walk to the "Blues" States. There is a lot of music of all kinds along the Missisippi though, and you should look around to find the documentary/book/CD called "The Mississippi: River of Song" to give you some inspiration and a sense of where to go--

My worries for you focus more on the weather-- you will go through the heart of tornado country--and the cold, since you will likely be on the road crossing over a couple of seasons--also, I wonder how you're going to carry that guitar and a backpack--and of course, the guitar case needs to be watertight--

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 12:42 PM

Calton cases are making me a special lightwieght fiberglass case (watertight), and another friend has made nice wide backpack straps that attach to the case. My small rucksack then goes over the shoulders of the guitar case, the straps securly clipped together. I have tested this configuration out with a normal calton case, and the total weight was between 30 and 40 pounds. I went for a 15 mile trek with it and it seemed to work well. The hip support/strap on the rucksack was also long enough to be used and takes some of the wieght off my shoulders. I can of course carry the guitar normally for stretches aswell.
I also share your concerns about the weather, but I'll just have to do my best to prepare for it as best I can and hope I get through it!
Cheers
Joe

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 02:06 PM

Personally, I think I'd wrap my guitar in a zippered dry bag and stuff that in a guitar bag that I had weatherproofed with wax or silicone for good measure--it is going to be lighter and easier to carry than anything else--

for extra assurance, I'd make the guitar of choice a used Ovation or Applause--there is a good reason that rock bands use them on the road, they sound good, they are durable, and you can get another one anywhere, if worse comes to worse. Also, make sure your guitar has a built in pick-up--many of the musicians you come upon, especially blues guys, will be plugged in--

Travel and backpacking guitars would be great, but they tend to be either "paddle" guitars or short necked items, which will have a considerably different sound than you'd want, especially if you plan on recording--

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: GUEST,Dave the cookieless Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 05:21 AM

Joe - Email me at [e-mail] with dates when you are going and I will send you my Cousins details - He is just north of St Louis where I guess you will be passing though.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: Chip2447
Date: 07 Apr 06 - 12:22 AM

Joe,

    Have a grand and safe trip. When you are out on those rural roads don't forget to wave at passerbys, most of us counrty folk will be expect it. A word of warning about "Country" dogs, they are very territorial and rarely confined. Just talk to them in a kind voice, and it never hurts to move over to the other side of the road if feasible. Most country dogs seem to realize that their territory ends at the road.

    Sounds like a great adventure, hope you enjoy it.

Chip2447

Subject: RE: BS: serious advice needed
From: JudyB
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 05:57 PM

Not sure what reminded me of this thread, but something did, and I'm wondering if there's an update at this point.

Thanks!
JudyB

P.S. If there's already an update thread out there, I apologize - so many threads, so little time....