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BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Once Famous Date: 02 Apr 06 - 09:00 PM And of course let of us not forget Maynard G. Crebbs, who like all beatniks turned into Little Buddy. Christ, I can't take this place and this type of ranting seriously. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:29 PM Indeed, the Bohemians were the predessors to the Beatniks and were totally incredibly cool in their time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: number 6 Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:27 PM Might as well get this thread rolling to the end ... then there was the Bohemians, I'm referring to the Bloomsbury set, those anti-bourgeois writers who lived and gathered in Mayfair, who set a precedent to the 'beatniks' ...... or did they? sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: number 6 Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:16 PM One famous 'beatnik' was the comedian Lenny Bruce ... he had much disdain for the hippies who where merging upon the scene at the time of his sudden death. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: frogprince Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:15 PM "Like, man, I think I'm dyng; call me an ambulance" "Groovy, man; like, you're and ambulance". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: number 6 Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:13 PM They where a lot hipper than the hippies Amos. They made more of an impact to the arts, philosphy and society than what they had been credited for ... Overshadowed in history by the 'not so hip' hippies. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Azizi Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:08 PM Great writing, Amos! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Amos Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:06 PM Man, six, don't square the scene -- the beats were the first to groove, to dig the scene, to yearn for hepness which was hipness. They married Chicago jazz to Bird to Zen to the Avatar of Tao, and dug the sorry shadows cast on the endless rolling watery Mississippi of time by the battered reeds and bent trees of modern America, and of all thisi that they saw they sang, and drummed, and wrote of it in poetry, and drank of it in espresso. These beats were cool, and they came forth from their pads to the good places where their voices could be heard, snap[ping their fingers tot he cosmic Akashic bongos of Infinite Time, pulsing in their veins. These were the forebears of Ginsberg and the ancestors of the hippies who came after them, and of the flower children who swarmed after the hippies. They were the hipsters, the flipsters, the strung out midnight racers of the soul, the transcontinental mourners of higher consciousness in the raceways of the grate American Circle of hell itself, blowing the sweet licks of Dharma's righteous rhythms and scales in the face of all the daemons of down and of morose, and lay back in the scowls of the satans of satiny conformance and political correctitude, and made the scene high and sweet even in the sufferingest of the pits of Ho-Jo and of Texaco across the straining bosom of the tortured land. This, and more, were the beatniks, those shaggy heroes and heroines of Divine phenomenology, whose seeds went forth and painted the world a hipper color of high and a smoother color of cool in the days before you were a gleam of tantric potential in the aether. They were the mothers and fathers of the Groove from which, as we all know, all things groovy are born. Any questions? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: number 6 Date: 02 Apr 06 - 07:41 PM "The prototype, or "concept" design for a hippy, which was modified when put into actual mass production." This prototype failed frogprince ... since the results was Generation X. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Apr 06 - 07:06 PM Hippies wore sandals, beatniks wore boots. Old hippies wear boots too. QED |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: frogprince Date: 02 Apr 06 - 06:28 PM The prototype, or "concept" design for a hippy, which was modified when put into actual mass production. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: number 6 Date: 02 Apr 06 - 06:27 PM I dunno guys ..... beatnik sounds kinda like a Roosian (conspiracy) word to me. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Apr 06 - 06:15 PM Basically, an old hippie... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Peace Date: 02 Apr 06 - 06:13 PM A hippie in training. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: number 6 Date: 02 Apr 06 - 06:06 PM Now I know what a hippie is ... what the hell is a beatnik?!? sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Peace Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:06 PM "Yeah, like all such labels it's an excuse to avoid thinking." So is that thing called 'corporate policy'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Purple Foxx Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:31 PM A very cogent & highly readable post Don. Though there are areas of overlap I do not recognise myself from the description you give. I was 5 at the time of the summer of love. Which facts notwithstanding people whose politics we might term "Right of Sensible" have been accusing me of being a Hippy for as long as I can remember. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:24 PM Yeah, like all such labels it's an excuse to avoid thinking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Don Firth Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:20 PM The word "hippie" is one of those words cobbled together by the media—Herb Caen of the San Francisco Chronicle, to be exact—in order to put a disparate group of people who are perceived to share one or more characteristics into a single category. It's another one of these terms that tries to pigeon-hole people, and as is almost always the case, it is often applied indiscriminately, broadly, and inaccurately. In short, it refers to some vague generality in the mind of the person using the term, but it usually fails miserably in any attempt to make a one-to-one correspondence with the real world. Stereotypes of the hippie lifestyle included: —Longer hair and fuller beards than what was currently acceptable (e.g., a well-trimmed Van Dyke beard).It is assumed by large numbers of what might be called "the less philosophically rigorous," that if one possesses or ascribes to one of the above listed characteristics, one ascribes to them all. For example, it was assumed by some that because Bob (Deckman) Nelson (building contractor), Judy Flenniken (Oceanography student), Dave DeSoto (newscaster at KOL radio), Nancy Quensé (Drama student), a fellow whose name I don't recall, but who had just graduated from Harvard in Economics, and I (studying English Literature and Music at the University of Washington), plus a dozen or so others (with a variety of "day jobs") who sang folk songs in coffeehouses in the Seattle area were all "hippies." Why? Because, no matter how poorly we may have fit into the above list of stereotypes (all employed, either in the work force or as students, all well-groomed, representing a variety of political opinions, and out of the couple dozen or so, only three or four that I knew of who occasionally indulged in pot [none of the named people], and nobody drove a VW bus) we all sang folk songs in coffeehouses. Conservatives almost invariably used the term "hippie" as an insult toward young adults who had leftist, liberal, and other progressive outlooks on life, no matter how far the rest of their life-style differed from the stereotype. And the beat goes on. The implication of some posts in this thread (actually, the initiation of the thread itself) is that anyone who is a) old enough to have been around during the Sixties, and b) who has an interest in folk music, and c) who embraces liberal or progessive views, especially espressing misgivings about the present administration and opposition to such things as unnecessary and illegal wars—is an "old hippie." "Hippie" is a very vague term. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:12 PM Right. Well, I am so glad you have made me aware of that. Just tell me what I should do next. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: GUEST,old beatnik Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:10 PM Yeah I groove with the true lingo. old hippie there is just some plastic pretender. Like all hippies do. Man, you gotta get to the true groove. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: GUEST,old hippie Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:07 PM Yeah man, you dig it. Like man, you gotta get on the road. You gotta ride the toad. You gotta let go of that old load. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:02 PM LOL! Do you really talk like that or are you just pretending? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: GUEST,old beatnik Date: 02 Apr 06 - 02:53 PM Fuck the Roman's man, like they aint with it now. It's not just them that's fucking around with ya man. Wake up, and take up the factoid that it's all the fat cats of the burgeois hypes. You old hippie types are sitting around in a stupour left over from some sandlewood scent from some chick you grooved out at woodstock with, rantin about this and rantin about that and you do nothing about it. Fuck, like man, you cats aint got the moxy soxy to truly drop out, cause like man, you are too fucking groovin to the beat of society's commercial bongo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Apr 06 - 02:36 PM There were tired old anti-Roman rants all over the ancient world too...for some reason (?). Strange, wasn't it? When you fuck around with other people all over the world in a truly outrageous manner and pretend you're doing them a favour, they rant against you. Get used to it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: GUEST,old beatnik Date: 02 Apr 06 - 01:46 PM That is the one fault and demise of hippies, they will bring politics comprising of old tired anti USA rants into every situation they can. Man, they just don't get it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Apr 06 - 01:05 PM They lasted far longer than the USA will. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Apr 06 - 12:28 PM Dinosaurs lasted a long long time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Beer Date: 02 Apr 06 - 11:33 AM Dead on brother. Beer |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: number 6 Date: 02 Apr 06 - 11:12 AM Those Hippy 60's wasn't all just all about rock and roll, bell bottoms and smokin Acapulco Gold ... to me it was an era of discovering the very fine music emerging back then that greatly influenced me to this day ... south of the border there was Paul Butterfield, Wes Montgomery, Bill Evans, the ever evolving Miles Davis and John Coltrane, here in Canada there was the brilliant Lenny Breau, Gordon Lightfoot (mentioned earlier in this post) ... the British Invasion to me was the discovery Bert Jansch, John Renbourne, Pentangle, Fairport Convention, John Mayall. I've never stopped listening to this music, so in my own way I'm still an old hippy from the past ... but they also left the element of joy in dicovering new music, new artists to this very day. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Apr 06 - 01:37 AM LH, you're only saying that cos your amp doesn't go up to 11! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:58 PM LH, And yer welcome, ya' "old hippie"... Now next time you go off contemplating the souls of rocks (not related to music directly but very much indirectly) just know that it's what's in yer danged heart and not which rock (as in music) group you liked... But you, of all folks, know what I'm talkin' 'bout here... But also know that ya' gotta give it back an' that's perhaps where we all struggle as we get older... I went to Front Royal, Va. todat and played blues on the street and talked between songs about stuff... Hey, I needed to do that... We all have our purposes... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:35 PM I was kinda like Joan Baez, Bobert...very much into the political and philosophical side or it, not at all interested in the drug scene. I was serious about it. I hated seeing the movement sidetracked into a bunch of wannabee fools who just wanted to party all the time, and who supported protest merely because it was seen as the cool thing to do. Their cynicism was all too evident to me. I guess I was into it pretty deep all right. Anyway, thanks for the words of support. And I did like a lot of the rock music. I liked Hendrix, the Stones, the Beatles, the Band, the Who, Jefferson Airplane, the Byrds, CSNY, Neil Young...but I wasn't much impressed by the English Progressive Rock stuff, which was what most of my friends liked the best. I love that movie, "This Is Spinal Tap", because it makes fun of the pretentiousness so typical of a lot of those English Prog-Rock/Metal groups. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Once Famous Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:11 PM Actually Janie, it's us and a few of you. But that's OK. You seem to have some pretty good common sense going for you. Keep up your good volunteer work to help others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:08 PM Come on, LH.... You weren't on the fringes... You were in the danged middle... Just didn't now it because you had this *impression* it was about pot, or sex or rock 'm roll... That was fir them hippie wantabees... Man, you are so main stream hippie that you don't have a clue.... That's good.... Real good... And genuine.... Like Janie said, it's baout the choices folks make and the invetsments they make toward making for a just society... Those investments aren't made solely in the front lines of protests but everywhere folks can challenge the complete mythology that has been fealt us in terms of how we are to think and behave... So get beyond the pot. Get beyond the Zeppilin v. Dylan... Think about that *rock*... Get into that *rock*.... Except that *rock* as yet another blessing from God.... That is being a hippie... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Janie Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:03 PM But Martin, my understanding of your premise in this thread is that you are seeing it as 'us and them.' And you're right, much of my last post ended up sounding awfully sanctimonious. Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Once Famous Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:56 PM Bobert, I have a 21 year old son, and I have never smoked pot with him. If you think bragging about smoking pot with your son makes you a good example for a parental role model, I feel extremely sorry for you. And your son. Quite frankly, you are a poor influence. A very poor influence. Janie, it just comes across as a holier than thou attitude. It does sound like a lot of self-righteous crap. Sorry, but it does. You don't need to be an anti-establishment martyr to serve the community well. Sometimes working with it instead of against it can get more done. Your attitude is just kind of "us and them." Now that's what I mean by Mudcat's old hippies. Grow up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:54 PM It's of no vital importance whether or not people smoke pot, in my opinion, as long as they don't smoke it too much. That's why I laughed at my peers in the early 70's...and I laughed at the establishment...I laughed at both of them for taking the whole damn thing so seriously! It's a tempest in a tea pot, as they say. You're better off without it, in my opinion, but there are about 500 more pressing issues one could worry about on the path to better health. Martin, I don't get the impression Amos is on the "fringes" of society at all. I know I am. ;-) But I was on the fringes of the hippy movement too, because I didn't smoke anything! I'm always on the fringes of everything, it's just my nature. I've never seen a status quo yet that I felt totally comfortable with for very long. I think human beings are strange, and their social ideas are stranger still. They're almost all a little bit crazy. Most of them take their usual "scene" for granted. I don't. The idiocies of the hippy movement were about as plain to me as the idiocies of the establishment they were protesting against. Then too, I can see the good points it both of them. I'm a spirit. I'm just here temporarily, checking out a very, very peculiar society in which I have always felt a bit out of place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Janie Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:30 PM Seems to me that "Hippie" referred to two separate but related phenomena. One was window dressing. The other was an entertwined set of social movements. The window dressing bit is seen among the youth of every generation as they strive toward completion of the developmental tasks of separation/individuation from parents. Form is as important as substance in this instance. And part of the process is to try to look and be as much LIKE your peers and as much DIFFERENT from your parents as you can pull off. The social movements arose from the Civil Rights movement, IMO. The issues around the Vietman war were issues of social justice, both with respect to who was most likely to become cannon fodder in this country, and with respect to the USA's foreign policy. Environmental issues are also essentially issues of social justice. Many of us young people running around in bell-bottoms and beads were not nearly as radical as we liked to think we were. I know I never participated in any protest or demonstration that I thought might get me tear-gassed or jailed, and never participated in a student strike if a I had a big test that day in class. But my political and social views have continued to flow in the direction of social justice and I think that is true of many of us here. My life-style, choice of work, and community activities all reflect that. I suspect many other 'old hippies' here can say the same. Continued activism around social justice issues is the hallmark of an 'old hippie' in my book. Living a life that reflects, as much as possible, those values of social justice, is the mark of an 'old hippie.' We have grown, matured, become more thoughtful, more aware of complexity. But many of us have not 'sold out' entirely to the Establishment. Many of us made conscious choices to pursue life work and community involvements that we understood from the start would probably not allow us the same standard of living our parents achieved, or wanted for us. We recognize, (and for myself, sometimes envy) the comfort to be had there. But we understand the cost of that comfort to others in the world and continue to work for social justice in small and large ways. Plenty of people, old and young, who were never part of the 'hippie' movement do the same of course. I do not mean to imply that being firmly planted in the middle or upper socioeconomic classes is an indication of callousness Many 'old hippies' learned to work for changw within the system. And they are still doing so. Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: GUEST,Joe_F Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:09 PM Born 1937: too young to be a beatnik, too old to be a hippie. Just as well, IMO. --- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: What sinners remember best is that they were happy while sinning. :|| |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:07 PM Martin, I have 20 year old son and we have smoked pot together since he was about 18... BTW, he lives on the west coast and gets up every morning at 5:00 and goes to work on public transportation.... But like I said, it ain't all about pot... It ain't all about nuthin' except the way we view things... A time to reap, a time to sow (no, not related to pot...) Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Peace Date: 01 Apr 06 - 08:35 PM Smoking pot then . . . . Smoking pot now . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Once Famous Date: 01 Apr 06 - 08:27 PM Bobert, it was a bowel movement. That's why you are focused on it. Do your kids know you still smoke pot? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 06 - 08:23 PM I take the seeds from Columbia and Mexico and plant up the holler on Copperhead Raod... Actually, seeds are purdy much a thing of the past... Plants don't produce them anymore unless you have old generation crappy plants... The bees knees is to just keep yer Sansimilion plant going year 'round and starting new plants from old ones... My, how times have changed... But smokin' pot would be like trying to describe to a Martian what a car is by showin' the Martian a carburator... It wasn't all about pot... Actually, it wasn't ***ALL*** about anything, other than changing the way we look at situations and the mythology that had been handed us as to what we were supposed to be all about... Yeah, we had all these rules and morays and lots of them just didn't make sense... They didn't jive with our innerds... They weren't prohuman... They weren't proEarth... They were just some very screwed up rules and morays and, inspite of the sex, drugs and rock 'n roll, it was more about that mytholgy that the movement was/is about... Actaully, I don't very much like the term hippie, though I guess I am by defination (whatever the defination is), what most folks would call an old hippie... The term in itself is part of the mythology.... Labels, while tending to be neat and tidy, don't quite fit the "movement", fir lack of a better term... But it was just that... A m-o-v-e-m-e-n-t... The base word being "move" and while it wasn't as mindless as a school of fish it certainly swept up alot of folks... Who got it.... As for Zeppelin v. Dylan??? My old hippie friends dug both... It wasn't either/or... But like I said, it wasn'/isn't about any one thing.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Once Famous Date: 01 Apr 06 - 08:18 PM Bobad, I thought for a moment about your theory, and then thought no, not really. That was a different time and place. People are supposed to grow and evolve as they get older, not get stuck in the same rut. Perhaps that is the point I am trying to make. I see way too many here stuck in a rut, a groove (groovy?), a comfort zone of on-going conflict. No, things are better for me now then they have ever been. Cleaning up one's act and becoming part of society instead of being on the fringe of it can get you out of that rut. You ought to try it, Amos. It might win you some friends that you can actually shake hands with. Old hippies today are pretty laughable. They are looked at as dinosaurs and an endangered species if not somewhat quaint. Why be part of that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Peace Date: 01 Apr 06 - 07:41 PM There are a few companies in Alberta handling hemp products. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Beer Date: 01 Apr 06 - 07:38 PM I ordered a case of Hemp Hearts back in December from Rocky Mountain Grain Products out of Lethbridge Alberta. Great with just about anything you eat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Peace Date: 01 Apr 06 - 06:32 PM But after the birds eat that seed they sing FOLK MUSIC. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Apr 06 - 06:22 PM And completely legal It's only when you plant them it gets tricky. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat's Old Hippies From: Peace Date: 01 Apr 06 - 06:12 PM Buy Canadian . . . . |
