BS: Condi go home

Subject: BS: Condi go home
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:02 AM

Bradford Mosques refuse to let Condi tour them. Good for them say I. Shame those officially in charge didn't have the bottle to tell her outright to take her bloodsoaked hands away but had to hide behind alleged concern for her safety at the hands of those who did have the bottle to say it out loud.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,Doug
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:07 AM

How childish you are.
Please grow up.

Big D.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:38 AM

Jack Straw has now acknowledged that the British Government's initial claim that there were 4000 holes in Blackburn,Lancashire may have been based on flawed intelligence.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: John O'L
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 07:04 AM

Good on you Richard. I nearly started a thread like this one when she was in Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:28 AM

you mean we HAVE to take her back?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 08:22 PM

Great work, Condi. I admire your nerves of steel.

And I second that, Doug R. This thread is started by someone who just likes to bash America for the sake of it. It's boring and has zero impact on anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: tarheel
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 08:40 PM

AMEN to that, martin gibson!!!
i happen to like Condi!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:37 PM

Bash America! I'm American, keep the Bloodsucker from coming home, she's not wanted here, either. Maybe while she's abroad she can be held & tried by an international court & tried for war crimes & crimes against humanity. Of course, unless there's anyone that still thinks that this war is still a good fight.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:48 PM

You are an American with too much time on your hands, Finn. Time for another whiskey, perhaps? Looked for work lately?

She is wanted here. Perhaps to be the next President.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 09:58 PM

I love her. She's the first snake-woman ever to become Secretary of State. Has anyone else noticed? She looks very similar to a cobra when she frowns. Nerves of steel? Hell, yeah! I would not want to end up in a lifeboat with her and one remaining bottle of water, lemme tell ya. ;-P

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:03 PM

MG.
You may want to know that I was never a drinker & I've recently received a 3rd liver transplant so I'm now considered totally disabled after working construction for 35 yrs. All in all I live a very good life & want to see others enjoy the same. That won't happen with people like Condi & Company in control. In the future please refrain from personally attacking me, as you don't know me at all.
Thank You
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:04 PM

Honetly, LH she already is a great leader. Tough as nails and doesn't take shit from anyone. I can't picture her crying and blubbering over anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:07 PM

Well, Finn, please refrain from bashing America, which is probably paying most of your bills now. How did you mange 3 liver transplants when some people can't even get one? Know some important people?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:22 PM

3?
Because I live & have lived my life as a decent person who has walked with death on his should since childhood & still have nothing but an incredile love for my life & the life of all others. My 9 lives haven't been used up yet. You should ever live to be so lucky.
Someone up there must love me.

I paid all my working life into what's now paying me back.

Stop Bashing America? America can do better, but it takes people to speak first before this country can heal itself. It is not bashing, it is a form protest, which if you follow Condi's lead, you would listen to more closely & not (at least in public) try to smother it.
The only credit that I can give her is that she's very smart for a bloodsucker.

Express your opinion, do not try to step on someone else's

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:26 PM

I know she's tough, Martin, and I respect that. I just don't agree with her administration's foreign policy, that's all. And I don't find her personally very appealing, but that's just a question of individual taste, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: mandotim
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 01:44 AM

I'm in the UK, and I'm listening closely to what this obviously talented woman has had to say. I have no quarrel with the messenger, but the message (which she certainly didn't write herself, as she has a team of speechwriters with her)is the real problem. The gist of it seems to be that America perceives that their particular and peculiar version of Western Liberal Democracy, as justified by fundamentalist Christianity is the only acceptable form of governance for any nation state, ever, anywhere in the world. Any alternative approaches are to be either despised or pitied, and where possible subverted or overthrown. There is simply no recognition that other forms of government predated the formation of the USA, and some of them work a good deal better for their people and their society at any given time. All societies and systems of government go through cycles of rise and decline; the trick is to adapt and change the mode of governance to suit the times and the world environment. America is prosperous and powerful at the moment; so was Rome, and it signally failed to accommodate to changing times. (Gibbon's classic 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'for those who are interested)

For me, this lack of tolerance is the first sign of America's decline as an influence for good in the world. I regret that, as I recognise the enormous good she has done, and the potential for more. America at the moment (perhaps I mean 'the American Government') is making no real effort to understand the world as it is, rather than how it would like the world to be; small wonder that this attitude is so resented in so many quarters.
Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:31 AM

Good post Tim...

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: John O'L
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:45 AM

Quite a mouthful Tim. Well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:53 AM

Excellent post Tim.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 04:15 AM

Condoleeza,who has had a super oil tanker named after her is a leading member of the neo cons who are intent on delivering more oil wars across the world starting with the Middle East and Central Asia.Iraq was never about democracy ,it was always about oila nd the US stategic and economic control of the region.
And there are two Americas.One America is corporate and military.It is the USA slaughtered thousands in Chile in Sept 1973 ,killed a million vietnamese peasants in the 160s and 1970s and gave that country agent orange,My Lai and saturation bombing.It is an America that is anti trade union and racist and fantastically unequal in terms of wealth and health.
There is another America...the America of the civil rights movement,of Martin Luther King and the anti Vietnam war campaigns...it is the America of Pete Seeger [no supertanker named after him!] and the trade union struggles...it is the America of the poor immigrant and the low paid worker...it is the America of Walt Whitman and Noam Chomsky...
Condoleeza's America is baying for blood ..the other America I can still hear singing!!
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:02 AM

Spot on Tim - every American should read your post to understand how clearly wrong US foreign policy is, and how naively self-centred is their approach to any one who does things differently from them.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 06:35 AM

I am with Condi! Whike I may not agree 100%, she is doing something and I just ignore the malcontents.

Sorry about the illnesses suffered by others, however, that is the least admirable way to approach a debate

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Stu
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 06:58 AM

Condi certainly represents the Hawkish face of the current administration. During her time as National Security Advisor she was an outspoken proponent of the war with Iraq, even penning an article in the New York Times about WMDs and the Iraqi declaration to the UN entitled Why we know Iraq is lying. Of course, we do know now who was lying.

As tim has pointed out, the obviously highly intelligent and talented Ms. Rice is one of the architects of America's current foriegn policies that has lead to the rest of the world recognising them as a morally bankrupt, imperialist, belligerent player on the world stage, intent on protecting their own interests, regardless of consequnce.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:29 AM

Bush and Rice delivered Shock and Awe to the people of Iraq.Over 100,000 Iraqi civilians including many women and children have been slaughtered in the bombing,the shelling,the use of white phospherous and napalm,the depleted uranium shelling and the sniper firing.
The mainstream press has overwhelmingly been supportive of Bush and the neocons [ after all the people who own the press belong to the same social class as the neocons,the generals and the corporate bosses ].
The warhawks have had it easy from the press and that is all the more reason for the anti war campaigners to confront these murderers wherever we can. Take a look at the terrible photographs of the victims of Shock and Awe ..they are truely shocking and awful.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 10:47 AM

The USA is riding high right now, as Rome once did, as the British once did, as the Germans once did. In such times a conquering empire will always have its enthusiastic supporters (mostly on the home turf). That's natural. Those supporters will accuse people who oppose the empire's self-interest of being malcontents, traitors, and varous other things like that. It's strictly a subjective point of view. A traitor from one point of view is a patriot from another. It always has been that way, and it always shall be.

Patrick Henry was a traitor to England, the established power of its time, and a patriot to the revolutionaries who opposed the establishment. Just like Jane Fonda! (grin)

The only reason you conservatives don't like Jane Fonda is....you think the way the English did who executed Patrick Henry. You support the powers that be around you, and are opposed to anyone who questions them.

Well, like the English who executed Patrick Henry, you will find in time that the establishment you now consider the answer to mankind's problems was just another passing phase in the sorrows and tribulations of humanity, and was not the answer after all, but a major part of the problem.

Political opinions, anyway, are as much an accident of birth as anything else. Early childhood influences usually set the way you look at political things pretty well for the rest of your life. There's only one person in 10,000 out there that's totally unbiased and capable of complete objectivity, and I wouldn't claim to be, that's for sure.

Condoleeza is a former oil company career person, is she not? (Like many other key people in the Bush administration.) Well, these wars are about oil and corporate financial considerations, not about exporting an enlightened form of democracy to anyone. But that doesn't mean that Condi doesn't believe in a good deal of what she says. She may indeed believe almost all of it. I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Amos
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 11:32 AM

Little Hawk,

Patrick died of old age, years after the English had gone home to England or become Americans. He was not put to death, except by the act of living it.

One account:

"George Washington persuaded Patrick Henry to become a candidate for the state legislature in 1799. The foundations of the young republic were endangered by the rumblings of men who argued that any state has the power to nullify acts of the Federal Government. Bowed with age and his health deteriorating, Henry delivered his last public oration. It was an inspirational, non-partisan, patriotic appeal for unity to preserve the nation. Historian Henry Adams declared that nothing in Henry's life was more noble than his last public act.

Three months later, on June 6, 1799, death came to Patrick Henry. The "Voice of the Revolution" was silenced forever."

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 01:24 PM

Thanks for the correction, Amos. Perhaps my old brain cells have confused Patrick Henry with some other martyr of the American Revolution. Which one would it be, I wonder? Either that, or they taught me wrong about him when I was in school in New York State back in the 60's, because I recall a textbook which showed him about to be hanged by the British.

Anyway, my point remains the same, whether or not I mistook the name, whether or not the British killed him or he died in bed.

When radicals oppose someone in a war (on either side) they are accused of being traitors by those on the opposite side of the debate, but they are NOT traitors to their own conscience! And what use is a man if he be traitor to his own conscience? When the war ends (depending on who wins it) they may suddenly and miraculously be publicly transformed from traitors into "patriots" and heroes...or the opposite way around.

Such is the capriciousness of human judgement on such matters.

In any case, not one of them imagines himself to be a traitor. Not one. They all do what they do because they believe it is the right thing to do at the time. Jane Fonda and Patrick Henry and Benedict Arnold and George Washington were all much the same in that respect, regardless of which side they chose to back at the time. They all did what they truly thought was the right thing to do. The right moral thing. The right logical thing. The right thing for humanity.

That most people cannot see this because of their own partisan prejudice, and must demonize others and call them "traitor" only shows me how little rational thinking most people are ever prepared to do at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 01:35 PM

Benedict Arnold. But I think he got some bad press also.

The entire Bush administration is an embarrassment to thinking Americans, and the Americans who elected him are an embarrassment to Americans. And of course, leave it to MG to attack the messengers, the people who don't like Rice and Bush and the administration. It seems about time for him to throw in some tasteless remark about sanitary napkins or yeast infections, anything to insult and distract from his lack of a coherent argument that would actually sell anyone on the idea of Rice continuing in a position of power.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: mandotim
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 01:37 PM

Thanks for the kind comments folks. The developing debate got me thinking about the nature of tolerance. I don't normally cut n'paste things, but this piece by American psychologist David Kiersey is worth it; it's about relationships, but I reckon it applies just as well to geopolitics...

Different Drummers, by David Kiersey

If I do not want what you want, please try not to tell me that my want is wrong.

Or if I believe other than you, at least pause before you correct my view.

Or if my emotion is less than yours, or more, given the same circumstances, try not to ask me to feel more strongly or weakly.

Or yet if I act, or fail to act, in the manner of your design for action, let me be.

I do not, for the moment at least, ask you to understand me. That will come only when you are willing to give up changing me into a copy of you.

I may be your spouse, your parent, your offsping, your friend, or your colleague. If you will allow me any of my own wants, or emotions, or beliefs, or actions, then you open yourself, so that some day these ways of mine might not seem so wrong, and might finally appear to you as right -- for me. To put up with me is the first step to understanding me. Not that you embrace my ways as right for you, but that you are no longer irritated or disappointed with me for my seeming waywardness. And in understanding me you might come to prize my differences from you, and, far from seeking to change me, preserve and even nurture those differences.

Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Kaleea
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 02:40 PM

Oh, Condi, go home;
Oh, Condi, go ho-oh-oh-ome;
Lord, how we want you to go home!

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 02:46 PM

She's gone to Iraq instead. That do?

As Google is now advertising pipers for hire , do you think it's their way of trying to drive her off?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge with no cookie
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:29 PM

Martin, I take as I find and criticise things about America and Americans that need criticising. America has done some good things in the past - the New Deal was one. There is much about it that is wrong today, and you seem most to admire the things that are most wrong.

The point, however, of this thread is the incredible affront offered by taking one of the prime supporters of the illegal invasion of a Moslem country, and expecting her to be welcome at a mosque.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:29 PM

Littlehawk - Are you sure you weren't talking about Nathan Hale? He's the guy who regretted that he had only one life to give to his country and yes, he was hung.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:30 PM

Maybe that was one life to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:42 PM

Rice and Straw went to Iraq. Wanna bet the Green Zone is the extent of their visit?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:45 PM

We don't want her!

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:32 PM

Yes, Dianavan, thank you! It was Nathan Hale I was referring to, not Patrick Henry.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:35 PM

'Hale asked for a Bible, but his request was refused. He was marched out by a guard and hanged upon an apple-tree in Rutgers's orchard. The place was near the present intersection of East Broadway and Market Streets. Cunningham asked him to make his dying "speech and confession." "I only regret," he said, "that I have but one life to lose for my country."'

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:40 PM

Pretty memorable words. That kind of incident is beyond evaluation when you want to get people mad as hell and whipped up to fight a revolution.

I must say I admire Hale's spirit, given the situation he was in.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:53 PM

Cpt Frederick Mackenzie of the British Army was present at Hale's execution.
In his diary he praised Hale's courage but recorded his last words as "It is the duty of any good officer to obey any orders given to him by his commander-in-chief."
In Joseph Addison's "Cato" are the words "What pity is it that we can die but once to serve our country!"

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:57 PM

"It is not your job to die for your country. It is your job to make the other poor bastard dies for HIS country." Patton (and it's from what's left of my memory so it may be wrong).

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 05:58 PM

So the revolutionaries may have edited and embroidered the truth a bit? That sort of thing tends to happen a lot in wartime.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: DougR
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:08 PM

Guest, Doug is not me Martin. Though I do agree with is sentiments.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:17 PM

There's no rallying cry like the remembrance of a dead hero...or a number of heroes heroes.

"Remember the Maine!" "Remember the Alamo!" "Remember Pearl Harbour!" etc.... (But those are all American. Surely there have been others? Why do we not hear of them?)

Nathan Hale's death, whatever he actually said, became one of those symbolic moments, and that's why he is remembered.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:35 PM

Just to muddle a bit more:

But are the last words attributed to Hale the ones that he actually said? Once again, not everyone agrees, but it is generally accepted that Hale, familiar with the English writer Joseph Addison, was paraphrasing a line from his play ``Cato.''

A 1777 newspaper article reported Hale as saying that ``if he had ten thousand lives, he would lay them all down, if called to it, in defence of his injured, bleeding country.'' Four years later another newspaper story quoted Hale's last words as: ``. . . my only regret is, that I have not more lives than one to offer in its service.'' Hull's 1848 memoirs give us the pithier version we know today: ``I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.''

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:57 PM

Mando Tim, your tolerance I am sure also includes that of terroirsts who cut off the heads of their hostages. Your tolerance of the enemy is what your porblem is.

Personally, I think you should have your head examined. Or go out in the meadow and at least chase some butterflies.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 09:02 PM

Richard Bridge you deserve to have no cookie. How about the illegal invasion of 9/11?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 09:09 PM

That's not technically an invasion at all, Martin. It's a civil crime by a terrorist cell. Invasions are launched by countries and armed forces with the intent of occupying a country, they are not launched by a handful of suicide pilots working for a secret terrorist group.

As for Mando Tim, he's speaking of ordinary relations between law-abiding people with different views, not recommending how to respond to a violent crime or an act of war.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 09:10 PM

And you know it. ;-) So why act as if you don't?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: John O'L
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 09:49 PM

The real problem is what Britain, America and France did to the Middle East after WWI. That's where it all started going wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 10:07 PM

Sure, Little Hawk. Ordinary people like insurgents who cut off people's heads, treat women like shit, kill their own. Get serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 10:21 PM

a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html">Official Condi Rice WH bio


In the early eighties Condi was the most prominent black conservative and a woman to boot. She has been nurtured by the conservatives and steered into positions of power as the only acceptable black conservative of the modern American world.

But she isn't lost yet. She really just wants to be a sports commissioner. My belief is that she is playing a part that ill-suits her true nature and we will eventually see the real Condeleeza Rice.

But it ain't as a black mouthpiece for white conservative male America. She will eventually see the light. It takes a while for people who are used by modern American machiavelian power mongers to become real. She reminds me of Sally Hemmings without the children. " My husband..."

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 11:26 PM

Are you willfully misunderstanding me, Martin, or just not bothering to read?

I was referring to this post:

Thanks for the kind comments folks. The developing debate got me thinking about the nature of tolerance. I don't normally cut n'paste things, but this piece by American psychologist David Kiersey is worth it; it's about relationships, but I reckon it applies just as well to geopolitics...

Different Drummers, by David Kiersey

If I do not want what you want, please try not to tell me that my want is wrong.

Or if I believe other than you, at least pause before you correct my view.

Or if my emotion is less than yours, or more, given the same circumstances, try not to ask me to feel more strongly or weakly.

Or yet if I act, or fail to act, in the manner of your design for action, let me be.

I do not, for the moment at least, ask you to understand me. That will come only when you are willing to give up changing me into a copy of you.

I may be your spouse, your parent, your offsping, your friend, or your colleague. If you will allow me any of my own wants, or emotions, or beliefs, or actions, then you open yourself, so that some day these ways of mine might not seem so wrong, and might finally appear to you as right -- for me. To put up with me is the first step to understanding me. Not that you embrace my ways as right for you, but that you are no longer irritated or disappointed with me for my seeming waywardness. And in understanding me you might come to prize my differences from you, and, far from seeking to change me, preserve and even nurture those differences.

In it he is clearly not talking about a dialgue with anyone who cuts people's heads off...he's talking about discussing stuff with other people on this forum...or in some normal conversation with people of differing political views, in other words.

There's nothing in that post that would not improve our relations with other people if we had the sense to follow it. But most people are too fucking proud (or make that insecure) to take even a second or two to try to understand another human being aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 12:06 AM

and what does it really prove? No one else is reading this except a handful of people.

As I keep saying, zero impact. why dwell on it here? All of this self-righeousness in a 2 dimensenal world here just does not impress me.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 01:21 AM

Well, that's true, of course. You could say the same thing about all the conversations in all the bars in North America right now, not to mention all the living rooms.

They have Zero impact. ;-)

But that won't stop people from enjoying their talk, will it?

The fact is, 99.999% of everything we ALL do has "zero impact" in the terms you mean...

Or it doesn't.

Depends whether you believe in the mass results of many little causes and effects or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: mandotim
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 01:49 AM

Hi Martin, thanks for your post; I was racking my brains for an example of what I was trying to say about intolerance. The whole point is that you can't solve things unless you understand; and in order to recieve the messages that allow you to understand, you first have to tolerate what appear to be contrary messages. That's a principle, not a specific.

Little Hawk has it right; I'm no ageing hippy, with dreams of peace and love, and I have no illusions about what human beings are capable of perpetrating on their fellow beings (I have lost friends and family through terrorism and warfare) but we have to start somewhere, or nothing changes. Small steps can gradually achieve great things, as long as there are enough of them.

Regarding your comment about this '2-dimensional world', I would agree if this was the only world I inhabited; but it isn't,I'm a teacher, and I use that world as often as I can to say the same things, hopefully without proselytising. I'm a parent; ditto. I'm involved in politics; ditto. I'm a musician and songwriter; ditto. If I really put my mind to it, I can produce a lot of small steps; and I intend to.

Please note Martin; the first line of this post is poking gentle fun, but there is nothing in the rest that says I do not tolerate your view of the world. Maybe in time I will understand it.
Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,RIchard Bridge with no cookie
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 03:57 AM

Martin, you compare "9/11" with the US invasion of Iraq. They are not the same. But you would probably find the instigators and principal proponents of that attack unwelcome at any place of assembly with a significant connection with the World Trade Centre.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 07:51 AM

Excuse me richard Bridge but you really do not have a clue who is the enemy here. I am not surprised. Your country is way ahead of mine in losing it's culture and identity.

Mandotim, thanks for the reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 10:03 AM

Your country is way ahead of mine in losing it's culture and identity.

Course we are, Martin! - Ours is documented back to 1066, yours to 1492 - Over 400 years difference.

I'm not too worried though - We are all one global village now. It's just that not everyone knows it yet:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 03:03 PM

Culture and identity are something that constantly are in a state of change, but it's funny how they are used as the primary justification for building armies and killing people, isn't it?

"Some'pn wrong with that boy!"

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge with No cookie
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 04:00 PM

Martin, the USA may have an identity (although Americans are perhaps more a people, if they are a single people, of varied ancestry than any other, two notable other candidates for that honour being England and Australia) but as you frequently demonstrate you and the regrettable parts of the USA that you seem to idolise have no culture (save perhaps greed). The closest you get is redneck fascist bigotry and xenophobia , which is some irony given your ethnicity and religion. Why are you surprised when people you bombed back into the stone age don't welcome you? You don't even seem to have the wit to recognise the way the USA has harmed other societies and their social and religious systems.

It was you who compared your invasion of Iraq with "9/11", not me.

Dave - our history goes deeper than that with some sense of continuity despite the Roman dispersion (and the Viking rape before that) of our indigenes.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 04:14 PM

Richard Bridge, you really have to look up Ted Nugent on Google. Go to his website. There you will find absolutely the last word in what it takes to be a red-blooded American muscle-man fascist and happy as a pig in shit about it. Ted loves America and everything it stands for, and he just loves himself to death too. He loves the flag, he loves guns, and he loves shit-kicking LOUD rock music. He's always right. Just ask him. You'll love it... ;-P

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Big Phil
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 04:42 PM

You have Bush and Rice, we have Blair and Straw. Nothing between them.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 06:07 PM

Ted drift... some years ago (70s) I read an interview with Ted Nugent .. I think it was Rolling Stone when Nugent was pretty much at the height of his career.

What was interesting was how Ted described proudly and in his own words the measures he took to avoid being inducted into the US Army during Vietnam.

A few months before he was scheduled to take a physical he quit bathing. He stopped changing his clothes and quit using bathroom facilities for urinating and defecation - opting instead to just piss and shit himself. A couple of weeks before his physical he quit eating. He showed up and when they stuck a needle in his arm to draw blood he passed out. He said he remembers the uniforms kicking him to the side of the room and calling him a "piece of shit." But in the end it was all worth it, he said proudly, when he got his 4F classification notice in the mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 06:13 PM

okay ... dates and source are way off. Wikipedia claims it was a July interview in 1990 with the Ted in the Detriot Free Press.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 06:19 PM

Po' lil' Condoleeza is first cousin to Kawliga (wooden-head)

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 07:13 PM

You gotta be KIDDING, Guest! That's incredible. The reason it's incredible is this: you can now listen to Ted, live on some radio interview on his website, raving on about how proud he is to associate with the men and women of the USA armed forces...what a warm feeling it gives him to hunker down at a campfire with some fresh-killed meat and share it with his blood-brothers in uniform who have put their lives on the line defending his "freedom". LOL! Yeah, that's why they blow up foreign places and torture and murder foreign people in filthy prisons, so Ted Nugent can be free to shoot wild animals, wear stupid-looking hunter regalia, and act like an egomaniacal bigmouthed asshole all over the midwestern USA.

That's freedom, eh? He just loves the USA armed forces now. Loves 'em. If the story you told is true, it is terrifically funny in retrospect.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 07:36 PM

..terrifically funny - and hypocritical, IMO. Also, how's this for irony? The Nuge has received commendations (according to his website) from the branch of the military service he so ardently avoided. And his website also claims he was honored on the floor of the US Senate.

Ted the Patriot

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 07:53 PM

It figures. The one and only thing militant fascism requires of people is ardent and unquestioning support of militant fascist policy. The past can be forgiven as long as the present stands patriotically in line.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 08:09 PM

Interesting point.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,bt
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 11:32 AM

sorry .. silly joke.. condoleeza FRIED rice

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 11:51 AM

THREE LIVERS!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Barry Finn
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 01:16 PM

Any problem with that Ted?
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 05:01 PM

Actually, I used quite to like Ted Nugent's music and saw him live at the Hammersmith Odeon many years ago. I'm not a bigot. He was OK, but not great. I think Stiff Little Fingers were supporting, and they were absolute crap. Sort of stereotype punk without the creativity.

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 05:06 PM

Yes, but it's his philosophy you really need to immerse yourself in in order to get the full benefit...got to his website now and see. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 06:47 PM

well as a guitar player Ted's passable .. I think his antics on stage and the stacks of amplifiers he pumped his sound through were the biggest draws...the tunes themselves were pretty much standard fare and fit sort of a pattern, notably beginning with a guitar intro ... seems as he used a Gibson hollow-body and that kind of thinned out his sound - but that's neither here nor there and sorry for the thread derailing ...

Subject: RE: BS: Condi go home
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 06:15 AM

refresh