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Subject: John Webb From: Storm (inactive) Date: 08 Feb 99 - 03:11 PM I'm looking for lyrics to the ballad "the Escape of old John Webb" I've found one version here on Digital Tradition but it is not complete. If anyone has or knows where I can find additional verses or another version all together can you let me know please? Thanks, Storm Stormqueen@rocketmail.com |
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Subject: RE: John Webb From: Rasta Date: 08 Feb 99 - 05:42 PM Hey storm--If the data base dont have it take a peek into the Kingston Trio Place. You should be able to find a entire lyric section in there. Its there so be patient and you*ll find it--- Rastaaaa |
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Subject: ADD Version: The Escape of Old John Webb (Drake) From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 08 Feb 99 - 05:59 PM Storm, Rasta is right, but I will help you along even further. If you enjoy Kingston Trio, then you can find lyrics is you click here. Don't forget to bookmark! And here are the slightly different lyrics the Tom Drake takes credit for.
THE ESCAPE OF OLD JOHN WEBB
Five men to guard the British rank and five to watch the town above
Chorus:
So he stole him a horse and away he did ride and who but they rode gallantly,
So they called at the inn for a room to dance and who but they danced merrily Roger in Baltimore |
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Subject: RE: John Webb From: Sandy Paton Date: 08 Feb 99 - 08:06 PM The song is also in Burl Ives' paperback songbook. The pop quiz is: of which of the great Border Ballads does this seem to be a variant? Susan? Bruce? Roger? Joe? Sandy |
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Subject: RE: John Webb From: Storm (inactive) Date: 08 Feb 99 - 09:27 PM The Tom Drake version is the one I was looing for. Thanks bunches... Storm |
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Subject: RE: John Webb From: Susan of DT Date: 09 Feb 99 - 07:35 PM Once you found the John Webb, notice the #187 at the bottom, the Child number. Search for #187 to find 3 versions of the song. Dick and I had fun with this song. He knew the American version, which claimed to be about a jailbreak in Vermont or around there, and I knew the Scottish border version and said That sounds just like one of the border ballads in Child. |
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Subject: RE: John Webb From: Bob Conroy Date: 12 Feb 99 - 11:18 PM I believe that the jailbeak took place in Salem Mass. The Kingston Trio version, arranged by Dave Guard, was included on the Capitol lp STRING ALONG. If you come across a copy of the album listen to Dave Guard's panjo part. |
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Subject: RE: John Webb From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Feb 99 - 04:51 AM Durn. I don't know about border ballads, Sandy. Care to explain? (click here for information, but I still can't figure out which ballad Sandy's talking about). Here are the notes from the Burl Ives Songbook: Only religious songs were approved in the New England colonies. However, ballads on current happenings could not be suppressed and broadsides describing events often took the place of newspapers. The broadsides were accounts in verse associated with or written to traditional tunes. About the year 1730, John Webb and Bill Tenor were imprisoned at Salem, Mass. Their imprisonment was unpopular. The jail raid which freed them was much applauded and a twenty-verse broadside was printed describing the incident. This song, madrigal in form, was composed from the broadside. Government officials advertised unsuccessfully for information regarding author and printer.-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: John Webb From: Susan of DT Date: 13 Feb 99 - 09:13 PM Look at Bold Archie and tell me it's not the same song. Child claims 1579. |
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Subject: RE: John Webb From: Barry Finn Date: 14 Feb 99 - 12:03 AM Hi Joe, I believe the short of border ballads might go, big (long usually) ballads from the Scottish-English borders areas from the Scottish side & view point. They usually deal with the border battles, raids & etc. I'm sure, Joe that there are others here that can & will do far better job explaining than I. I was just happy to be the first to brief you in return for all the info you dish out constantly. And Joe, I don't care what you sing, you'd be welcome to sing anytime you're in town. Search @Border for some examples. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Escape of Old John Webb (Billy Broke Locks) From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Aug 08 - 07:22 PM Here's the entry on this song from the Traditional Ballad Index: Billy Broke Locks (The Escape of Old John Webb)DESCRIPTION: John Webb was imprisoned and well guarded, but "Billy broke locks and Billy broke bolts, And Billy broke all that he came nigh." Billy and John Webb escape on horseback, then relax by organizing a danceAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1929 (Barry, Eckstorm, Smyth) KEYWORDS: prison escape dancing freedom FOUND IN: US(NE) REFERENCES (3 citations): BarryEckstormSmyth pp. 393-400, "John Webber" (1 text plus four versions from newspapers and such, 1 tune) Lomax-FSNA 4, "Billy Broke Locks" (1 text, 1 tune) DT, JOHNWEBB* Roud #83 CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Archie o Cawfield" [Child 188] (tune & meter, theme) Notes: An American rework of "Archie o' Cawfield," with which Roud lumps it; the revised version dates perhaps from the 1730s. It may have arisen out of an attempt at currency reform. In the early days of the English colonies, there was no universal system of coinage; Spanish money was common, but there was no fixed exchange rate. Parliament decided to settle the matter by issuing a paper money, the "tenor." However, after a time the "Old Tenor" (referred to in the song) was replaced by the "New Tenor" -- resulting in civil disturbance. One of the chief culprits was one John Webb (Webber), a mint-master, who ended in prison but was rescued by friends. - RBW File: LoF004 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2007 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Billy Broke Locks From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Aug 08 - 07:35 PM Billy Broke Locks There were nine to hold the British ranks, And five to guard the town about, And two to stand at either hand, And one to let the Old Tenor out. CHORUS: Billy broke locks and Billy broke bolts, And Billy broke all that he came nigh, Until he came to the dungeon door, And that he broke right manfully. There was eighty weight of good Spanish iron Between his neck-bone and his knee, But Billy took Johnny up under his arm And lugged him away right manfully. CHORUS They mounted their horses and away did ride. And who but they rode manfully, Until they came to the river bank And there they alighted right manfully. CHORUS And then they called for a room to dance, And who but they danced merrily, And the best dancer amongst them all Was old John Webb who was just set free. CHORUS Source: The Folk Songs of North America (Alan Lomax, 1960), #4, page 14 taken from page 393 of British Ballads from Maine (Phillips Barry, 1929). As sung by Mrs. S.S. Thornton and Mrs. F.P. Barker of Maine Note: the Digital Tradition version doesn't sing the chorus until after Billy has been introduced in the second verse. Don't know if the DT is right about that, but it makes sense to me. Here are the notes from Lomax:
Archie Hall of Liddesdale, one of three reiving (cattle rustling) brothers, lies prisoner in Dumfries jail. Dickie and Jockie Hall ride to his rescue. Jockie, a man of Homeric stature and strength, bursts the iron bolts of the dungeon with a blow, and though the prisoner has ‘fifteen weight of good Spanish iron on his fair bodie,’ picks him up in his arms, observing, ‘I count him lighter than a flea.’ The three brothers make good their escape by swimming their horses across a river that daunts their English pursuers. In the Scots ballad they refer to each other affectionately as ‘billie.' In Scots dialect ‘billie' meant comrade or buddy; thus, in our ballad, ‘Billy' takes the place of 'Jockie.' Very likely Archie o’ Cawfield was one of the ballads Cotton Mather had in mind when in 1713 he lamented ‘the vogue of the foolish Songs and Ballads which hawkers and pedlars carry into all portions of the Country.' There is no doubt that it served as the model for Billy Broke Locks, composed around 1737, when the colonists of Massachusetts became involved in a currency dispute with the crown. At that time exchange in the colonies was based upon Spanish coinage, which brought a different price in the various colonial capitals. Parliament attempted to resolve this confusion by several issues of paper money called ‘tenors’; but when the ‘new tenor’ replaced the ‘old tenor,' disturbances broke out in Massachusetts, and two satirical broadsides entitled The Death of Old Tenor and The Dying Speech of Old Tenor were published -- and suppressed. John Webb (or Webber) then mint-master of Salem, Massachusetts, apparently stuck to ‘Old Tenor' and for this offence was sent to prison. When his friends broke into jail and rescued Webb, someone celebrated the event by re-making Archie o’ Cawfield to tell the story of the escape of the man who had stood up for ‘Old Tenor,' and so is identified with ‘Old Tenor’ in the chorus. Thus the rebellious fire of a sixteenth-century Scots border rant passed into a new song of social conflict, producing what is certainly the best of our early colonial ballads. Billy Broke Locks must have been extremely popular in New England for Barry found five good versions of it, two hundred years after the event. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Escape of Old John Webb (Billy Broke Locks) From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 20 Aug 08 - 05:40 PM Obviously an art form which was criticized by Cotton Mather stands a good chance of surviving the ages. Like being banned in Boston... The Kingston Trio reocrded this, and I enjoyed it as a kid, tho I had very little idea of what it was about. It was such a pretty, gentle song. |
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Subject: RE: Escape of Old John Webb (Billy Broke Locks) From: georgeward Date: 21 Aug 08 - 01:25 AM Ah, well.... As one who sang this as a Park Service interpreter for many a year, I should opine that our good Mudcat friend Anglo has a fuller version and sings it better than anyone else I've ever heard. Big surprise...not. |
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Subject: RE: Escape of Old John Webb (Billy Broke Locks) From: Anglo Date: 21 Aug 08 - 03:29 AM Hah! I am drawn out of my usual lurk. I learned this as a teenager from the Kingston Trio, and learned the history later (much of it from the previous poster GW). Also later I added a verse adapted from Archie O' Cawfield, which seemed to fit: Oh Billy, oh Billy, the sheriff says he, You're the damdest rascal I ever did see, Come give me back the iron you stole And I will set your prisoner free. Oh no, oh no, bold Billy says he, Oh no, oh no, that never can be, The iron will do our horses to shoe: The blacksmith rides in our company. Researching through Phillips Barry, I was amazed to find that this was included in some of the versions he had collected. When I sing the song, I end without the final chorus, going straight into Morpeth Rant, which also seemed to fit. Billy Broke locks, and Billy broke bolts, And Billy broke all that he came nigh, Until he came to the dungeon door, And that he broke right speedily. I am somewhat astonished by leeneia's characterization of this as "such a pretty, gentle song." |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Escape of Old John Webb/Billy Broke Locks From: GUEST,Paul Townsend Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:53 PM May I share a personal reminiscence regarding this song. My brother was a teenager in the late 1950's (when I was just a toddler) and he had this record in his collection. It soon became a favourite of mine too, and (as all kids do) I had tried to song it myself :) Later that day my mother mentioned to my brother that I had been trying to sing "some stupid song about a billy-goat: billy-goat this and billy-goat that." My brother, recognising from that fragmentary description what song it was, rushed to my defence and surprised my mother by putting the record on to show her what it actually was that I had been trying to sing. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Escape of Old John Webb/Billy Broke Locks From: GUEST,Pete Hawkins Date: 04 Mar 13 - 10:08 PM For much more about Border reivers, Border ballads and such, see George MacDonald Fraser, The Steel Bonnets. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Escape of Old John Webb/Billy Broke Locks From: Thomas Stern Date: 26 Oct 15 - 02:10 PM in the 1940's, John and Lucy Allison recorded an album for KEYNOTE "Early American Ballads" (K103, 3-78rpm records) which included: PATRIOTIC DIGGERS THE GREENLAND FISHERY NANTUCKET LULLABY Sir Peter Parker Ballad of Saratoga Unfortunate Miss Bailey Ballad Of The Tea Party & Escape Of Old John Webb If anyone has the booklet which accompanied the album, I would be interested in any cited source. Wonder if the Allisons introduced these songs to the folk revival ??? Best wishes, Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Escape of Old John Webb/Billy Broke Locks From: GUEST,Guest, KirstyF Date: 07 Mar 17 - 04:34 PM Late to the game, here, and very grateful to have lyrics and notes for this half-remembered song. In response to Anglo, "somewhat astonished by leeneia's characterization of this as "such a pretty, gentle song."" -- I was too, until I heard the Kingston Trio version on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMJSWWvBdzA Having (I think) first learned it from Lomax' book, and possibly from a Burl Ives recording, I always considered the tune one of the best fighting songs I've ever heard. But the banjo and especially the soft voice in the Kingston Trio's recording does make it sound very gentle. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Escape of Old John Webb/Billy Broke Locks From: GUEST,Bob Schwarer Date: 08 Mar 17 - 02:53 PM I always thought that John Webb was jailed for counterfeiting ten pound notes and this is where "tenner" came from. Also, I ran across this song done by John and Lucy Allison. I don't remember where I found it, but I like it. Nothing fancy but they use a recorder (I guess) to good effect. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Escape of Old John Webb/Billy Broke Locks From: Stevebury Date: 22 Jul 20 - 12:45 PM Does anyone have a citation or a link to the twenty-verse broadside mentioned the the Burl Ives Songbook notes? |
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