Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:55 AM

Perhaps it would be better if all complaints about what other posters choose to post were ignored and all posters encouraged (by example) not to post only to judge the worth of their fellow posters but to concentrate on making their own contributions as positive as possible?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 May 06 - 03:42 AM

It would still appear to me that most people here visit the 'cat' for the overall gain they can make in Lyrics and knowledge. However, there seems to be a small number of people who come here to exhibit some repressed teenage rebellion against any kind of authority or anyone lacking agreement with what they post. Attacking other users/moderators/those who are different...is hardly likely to gain anyone 'Brownie points' (UK expression)...is hardly likely to gain favour with anyone except the sheep who follow the misguided leader. Please people...fellow Folkies....give it a rest and get on with enjoying life...don't give in to pursuing your 'cause' over enjoying being amongst like minded people (careful choice of words as we are not all friends of course...yet). You may be excellent at expressing what you think and feel about 'mudcat life' but never forget that you expose yourself to others when you go 'against the grain'.
Hope this makes sense to some if not all....Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:35 AM

Yes. Stop bullying Shambles.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: GUEST,09.01
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:05 AM

Online bullying, I'd call it

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 06 - 10:07 PM

OCD perhaps.
Can't stop.
Maybe trying saturation therapy.
Can't even see how 'out there' this behaviour has become.
Will say that he was not asked to leave, only that it was suggested he do so and he does not like being told what to do.
Any request will be met with a question.

exhausting isn't it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 May 06 - 09:54 PM

But not by Max, before. Shambles, if you wish to stay why don't you change your song?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 06 - 09:19 PM

Many times.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 06 - 09:01 PM

I believe you were asked to leave,

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 06 - 08:58 PM

Perhaps I can ask you a question?

Why do you not also take issue with and ask those posters who have made almost a religion out of telling their fellow posters that if they do not like the way things are – that they can leave? Why not take issue with those who have set this example?

For some time our forum has had a double standard where complaints (often about what their fellow posters contributed) were encouraged – if these complaints coincided with the personal opinions of our editing team. And often they would result in changes being imposed. For example with the 100th post claims and more recently with the so-called copycat threads.

However, if these complaints or suggestions were not in line with this thinking – the poster making the suggestion would eventually be advised that they if they could always leave if they did not like the way things were. This mantra would be taken up by supporting posters who would echo this concept – but often not in such polite words.   

Perhaps it would be better if all complaints about what other posters choose to post were ignored and all posters encouraged (by example) not to post only to judge the worth of their fellow posters but to concentrate on making their own contributions as positive as possible?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: lesblank
Date: 13 May 06 - 09:09 AM

I said it before -- Shambles GO STICK IT !! It appears that you really need a good laxative to clear up your mental (and perhaps physical ) constipation. Join the whiney boys' choir and stop tainting what used to be a great forum.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 May 06 - 04:51 AM

So, you castigate Joe if he refers to your interminable complaints as "anti Mudcat", while lumping together all of your fellow posters who agree with his POV as "fawning sycophants".

Somewhat inconsistent, not to mention insulting, and coming from him who NEVER resorts to responding in kind.

Just my opinion of course, and all done without the need for out of context cut& paste and multiple links.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:27 AM

oh, but they ARE! They are even labeled as such!

Bill you and others have been publicly complaining (mostly about your fellow posters) for years. I have not seem these so labelled and they won't be now.

Every other form of complaint is now actively encouraged - especially those in agreement with the views and complaints of the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team.

You know that the only complaints that are now thought a problem (and now apparantly need to be labelled as such by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team) are any about the conduct of the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team.

There are less of these now but threads containing sycopantic fawning praise about the selfless efforts of the Chief of the Mudcat Editing team will not have an imposed 'COMPLIMENTS' label - or perhaps they will?

Why not start one and see if it does Bill?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:16 AM

Impose =

Compel to behave in a certain way

Impose something unpleasant

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:34 PM

"If Max has changed his mind and complaints are not now welcomed "

oh, but they ARE! They are even labeled as such!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: jeffp
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:25 PM

Shame on you for trying to bring logic and sensibility into this thread. *grin*

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:22 PM

Merriam-Webster Online: "censorship: the act of censoring. Censor: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable."

So then, what has been suppressed or deleted here?

Same source "clarification: to free of confusion, to make understandable."

Seems to me that the clones are making a valiant effort in the face of adversity.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:27 PM

What points? I mean this whole thing IS a big send up, right? Any real issues were dealt with long ago and you're just having a few at our expense. I don't think that's bullying at all. You're having a good time and all and you feel welcome here since you did decide to return back in '99 or thereabouts.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:15 PM

Thank you for making all of my points so clearly.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:02 PM

Again I am sure you're kidding. First, you know as well as I do that censorship is at its heart, suppresion....and you are in no way being suppresed are you? Adding to a thread title doesn't come close to qualifying. Closing a thread doesn't qualify as the words are still here and you can post on numerous others and link back.....But why go on? You know all of that....and you know this place ain't censoring diddly squat......But it does reserve the right to do so!

As far as bullying? LMAO.....Now that's a winner Shambo! I admit your behavior is certainly aggressive and you keep repeating it over and over and you are supposedly trying to force others to see things as you do although most do not.....but you keep on and on and on. Your behavior adds a negative influence as well and that is the trait of a bully. But really, I think you're just jerking us all around for fun and even though some might think you a bully, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:37 PM

You know perfectly well that ain't censorship by any stretch of the imagination.

How would you define it?

And how would you define bullying?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:35 PM

Shoot Jeff, I think it goes way beyond stupid. LOL.....

To believe any of that crappola you'd have to have some kind of brain damage or be a mental case. As you know, I have a son who is autistic and MRDD so I recognize it when I see it. Roger has assured us all on numerous occasions that he is not mentally ill. I thought he was at one point......really.

That's how I know this whole thing is a giant send-up. Uh....But if I'm wrong here Roger, you need to get yourself some help......No, can't be that.....Gotta' be joke.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: jeffp
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:25 PM

I believe you're right, Spaw. Nobody can possibly be as stupid as Roger portrays himself and be able to breathe on his own. I think we've all been had by a master. To keep a joke running for this many years is a truly amazing feat.

Shambles, I salute you.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:19 PM

Well shitfire if you ain't in rare form today!!!!! This is another beauty!!! Ranks up there with your absolute best:

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles - PM
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:04 PM

"CENSORSHIP" is a loaded word meaning "I don't like it"....some of us see it as "editing improvement".

To those minority groups who are its victims and those who do what they can to help - the word for it is genocide.

Those who are not its victims, and those who benefit from it may prefer to use terms like 'ethnic cleansing'.....

Such things plainly remain what they are - whatever you may prefer to call it.

Completely shameless Roger you old rapscallion! To date you are now not only a rape victim, but also a victim of ethnic cleansing/genocide! White, Anglo, Christian.....Yeah, You got a real bounty on your head there I can see! Once again your humor comes through because I know you can't possibly believe what you just wrote.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:12 PM

You know perfectly well that ain't censorship by any stretch of the imagination.

How would you define it?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:10 PM

some of us see it as "editing improvement".

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:10 PM

"You can clarify anything with the originators knowledge and permission - if you impose any change for any reason without this permission or against their express wishes as a first and only resort - as is the case now on our forum - usually anonymously - it is censorship."

LOL.....See? Its that kind of stuff that makes me sure you are joking around here. You know perfectly well that ain't censorship by any stretch of the imagination.

........And "reactive imposition?"   LMAO......Man that sounds like a bowel disorder or didja' just make it up? I KNOW you did 'cause when you make up a new one you forget to throw in "Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team."

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: jeffp
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:07 PM

So now you're a victim of genocide?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:04 PM

"CENSORSHIP" is a loaded word meaning "I don't like it"....some of us see it as "editing improvement".

To those minority groups who are its victims and those who do what they can to help - the word for it is genocide.

Those who are not its victims, and those who benefit from it may prefer to use terms like 'ethnic cleansing'.....

Such things plainly remain what they are - whatever you may prefer to call it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 12:54 PM

It is clarification, which is an editing duty, not censorship. You are not entitled to your own definitions of words.

And you are entitled to yours?

You can clarify anything with the originators knowledge and permission - if you impose any change for any reason without this permission or against their express wishes as a first and only resort - as is the case now on our forum - usually anonymously - it is censorship.

And such reactive imposition on our forum is as totally pointless as it is counter-productive and divisive.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 12:24 PM

Shambo darlin'........I dunno' if it was the WE or what that made you think I was a clone. I said before I was not and would not want to be a clone. Joe or otherwise although you may have missed that when I was joking about someone's spelling of moderator as modertator.....and Lord knows I want to be a tator!!!

Seriously Roger, you really are so completely full of shit......LMAO......It is really hard to believe that you are in any way serious about any of this. Really, I do wish Rick was still with us because he would indeed be getting a charge out of this!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 May 06 - 12:10 PM

How much have you contributed towards the upkeep of Mudcat over all your years of crusading, by using it's bandwidth to spread your message?
Giok

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 06 - 12:04 PM

"CENSORSHIP" is a loaded word meaning "I don't like it"....some of us see it as "editing improvement".

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: jeffp
Date: 11 May 06 - 12:04 PM

It is clarification, which is an editing duty, not censorship. You are not entitled to your own definitions of words.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 06 - 12:02 PM

Shambles, why don't you go and bother some other group. You really are contributing nothing by all of your complaints. If you don't like it here go somewhere else.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:54 AM

Changing a thread title to make it more descriptive is not censorship and you bloody well know it, Roger.

Making any change with the originator's knowledge and consent is perfectly acceptable and in the spirit in which Max founded our forum.

One poster imposing any change to another's contribution as a first resort and without their knowledge or permission or in spite of their wishes - is not.

That is imposed and it is censorship.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: MMario
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:46 AM

gee, that qoute is over 7 years old. Max might possibly have changed his mind since then?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:44 AM

Do you need to be censored   remains closed and censored.

Perhaps (as there was no reason for it to be closed) this thread can be re-opened to show that our moderator's word can be trusted. If it remains closed - it will only prove that our moderator's word cannot be trusted.

Can a full apology be made to me and our forum for this mistake and can this thread (and all the others recently closed) be re-opened?

If not - can those who have now proved beyond any doubt that they do not deserve the trust placed in them by Max and the rest of our forum to show an honest and honourable example that can be respected by all posters - please hand-in (or be asked to hand in) their edit buttons?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: jeffp
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:40 AM

Changing a thread title to make it more descriptive is not censorship and you bloody well know it, Roger. Furthermore, how can you claim to be privy to what Max wants or does not want? All you have to go on are a few posts that Max has made over several years. Joe is in communication directly with Max and can be assumed to have a bit of a clue what Max's desires are.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:16 AM

You may have missed following editing comment as it was inserted into an existing post and did not refresh this thread.

Sorry, Shambles - request denied. To go back to the original title and "music" categorization would be deceptive, and would violate our principle of truth in thread titling. I have, however, removed your name from the thread title. This one makes three Shambles-dominated complaint threads, which means I have to close off one of the others.
-Joe Offer-

Why do you judge that you have to do this? In what way is any poster being protected by such censorship?

Perhaps our moderators (which now seem to include one Catspaw) can now impose thread title title changes like 'Leper' - 'Witch' or 'Kick Here'? Just so that certain posters can find the posters who are the selected easy targets for abusive persoanal attacks and name-calling?

User Name Thread Name Subject Posted [PM] Max Objectionable Material (50) RE: Objectionable Material 16 Apr 98
>snip<
Please critisize and disagree and bitch and moan all you want, I dig that.
Max

It remains a fact that complaints are NOT discouraged by Max but encouraged. And there is no rule limiting them on our forum. If the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team cannot dig this - perhaps he can go form his own forum - where there is a different understanding and he can place as many limitations as he wishes?

If Max has changed his mind and complaints are not now welcomed by him from his invited guests - perhaps he can tell us this?

If our moderators do not like complaints but are happy only with threads full of compliments - perhaps if they cannot stand the heat - they should not be in the kitchen and feel they have some right to throw pots and pans at the customers?

Perhaps our moderators would not get any complaints at all if some of their conduct did not give cause and if they were prepared to make even the smallest adjustment to the example some of them set and to the complaints that are received?

Or if they now took any notice of Max's wishes for how his invited guests were treated on our forum............

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: Emma B
Date: 11 May 06 - 09:19 AM

and while "complaint" is in the title too, can "normal service" be resumed in the Help Forum and not used as a new playground for MG's psuedo apologies?

Bunches of bunches and pretty please

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 May 06 - 07:01 AM

Never light more than 2 cigarettes off the same match Roger.
Giok

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:38 AM

Hell Roger, what words that you need to say have ever been "censored?" Joe leaves the threads for all. They are NOT deleted............See the thing is he really is doing you a big favor! Some of those Shamblecentric threads get pretty long and even with the segment loading, they are tough for the dial-up folks to get...... Joe IS a fair guy and I know he doesn't want anyone to miss a single word of your garbled syntax and twisted logic!!!

Say "Thank You Joe."

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:28 AM

OK as long as the word - Complaint- continues to be part of this thread's title - we can consider it officially provided for this purpose. So here goes with the first one.

I would like to formally complain about the quite clearly personally motivated censorship action currently being imposed upon my contributions and for the special and bullying treatment I am being singled our for. I expect no special treatment and only wish for all posters to receive equal treatment from our moderators and for any rules and restrictions to be seen to apply also to them. Something that is currently not the case and is currently inhibiting - rather than encouraging posting on our forum.

Do you need to be censored

The above thread has been subject to imposed closure by persons and for reasons unknown - despite containing the following.

This thread is to be kept open, so Roger can say whatever it is that he needs to say.
-Joe Offer-

Perhaps (as there was no reason for it to be closed) this thread can be re-opened to show that our moderator's word can be trusted. If it remains closed - it will only prove that our modrerator's word cannot be trusted.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:23 AM

Droooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
G.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:09 AM

There is of course "Shambles" and we have added "Complaint" which I know will prove VERY popular with you

Are 'you' now part of this 'we'?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:57 AM

"There is not currently a 'complaint' prefix for posters to chose - so until there is is - can all thread originators be free to chose their own title?"

"To chose"........What tense is that exactly?

In any case, you're right, there is no prefix, but we do have a new suffix category that applies only to you. There is of course "Shambles" and we have added "Complaint" which I know will prove VERY popular with you. And there is that beauty that started it all, or at least the latest round, "in the UK."

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: GUEST,Alba
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:52 AM

I forgot tae say.
Me, Myself, I only ever asked once in the Years I was here but aye it worked.
There was a wee problem though, no biggy. Seems I upset somebody by throwing my weight about ( a mean at 5ft 8ins and weighing in at 139lbs I am sure you understand) that's when I stopped using my SuperPowers.
Clarity is required in case the need arises for my post to be cut n pasted. So I thought I would pop back and get the details spot on.
One has to be accurate if one is going to be emulated, doesn't one.
Kettle's boiling. TaTa

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:42 AM

Maybe it wasn't those magic words at all?

Perhaps (some of) our moderators would have jumped at even the slightest excuse to close that particular thread?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:37 AM

OK I'll try it.

Please thank you Bunches.........?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum? (Complaint)
From: GUEST,Alba
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:26 AM

Don't forget the bunches and please Roger.
I had Joe Offer and the Mudelfs round my finger when I was a force to be reckoned with during my time here, wasn't I Joe and Mudelfs?
Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end, we'd sing and dance forever and a day. We'd live the life we choose. We'd fight and never lose.........
For we were young and sure to have our way.
"Do this", "Do that" and "Snap to it" Alba would say and you know what, it was as good as done. The reason... "bunches" ~ "my Darlings" ~ "Please" I used to call them my 3 steps to heaven. Aye memories.