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BS: why all the closed threads?

GUEST,guthriefan 18 Apr 06 - 07:46 AM
clairerise 18 Apr 06 - 07:54 AM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Apr 06 - 08:31 AM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 09:24 AM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Apr 06 - 09:39 AM
Big Mick 18 Apr 06 - 09:53 AM
number 6 18 Apr 06 - 11:24 AM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 11:37 AM
number 6 18 Apr 06 - 11:39 AM
wysiwyg 18 Apr 06 - 11:40 AM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 11:45 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Apr 06 - 11:50 AM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 11:53 AM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 11:54 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Apr 06 - 11:55 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 18 Apr 06 - 11:57 AM
number 6 18 Apr 06 - 11:57 AM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 11:59 AM
number 6 18 Apr 06 - 12:01 PM
artbrooks 18 Apr 06 - 12:03 PM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 12:09 PM
katlaughing 18 Apr 06 - 12:10 PM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 12:13 PM
number 6 18 Apr 06 - 12:14 PM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 12:16 PM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 12:16 PM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 12:17 PM
number 6 18 Apr 06 - 12:19 PM
katlaughing 18 Apr 06 - 12:21 PM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 12:24 PM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 12:26 PM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 12:34 PM
Stilly River Sage 18 Apr 06 - 12:36 PM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 12:37 PM
katlaughing 18 Apr 06 - 12:38 PM
catspaw49 18 Apr 06 - 12:45 PM
Joe Offer 18 Apr 06 - 12:49 PM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 01:14 PM
Bill D 18 Apr 06 - 01:29 PM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 01:33 PM
Joe Offer 18 Apr 06 - 01:42 PM
Stilly River Sage 18 Apr 06 - 01:51 PM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 01:54 PM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 01:54 PM
GUEST 18 Apr 06 - 01:56 PM
Wolfgang 18 Apr 06 - 02:42 PM
The Shambles 18 Apr 06 - 03:03 PM
John MacKenzie 18 Apr 06 - 03:08 PM
artbrooks 18 Apr 06 - 03:15 PM
Geoff the Duck 18 Apr 06 - 03:23 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Apr 06 - 08:09 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Apr 06 - 08:21 PM
Bill D 18 Apr 06 - 08:21 PM
Janie 18 Apr 06 - 11:14 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Apr 06 - 12:06 AM
GUEST 19 Apr 06 - 01:02 AM
The Shambles 19 Apr 06 - 04:57 AM
wysiwyg 19 Apr 06 - 10:35 AM
The Shambles 19 Apr 06 - 11:17 AM
wysiwyg 19 Apr 06 - 11:29 AM
The Shambles 19 Apr 06 - 11:40 AM
The Shambles 22 Apr 06 - 04:32 AM
John MacKenzie 22 Apr 06 - 04:43 AM

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Subject: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST,guthriefan
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 07:46 AM

why all the closed threads all of a sudden? is it me or is mudcat becoming tyrannical?

C'mon mudcatters, are we losing our way here?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: clairerise
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 07:54 AM

it comes from a discussion recently. i pushed for moderation of troublemakers. like people who abuse people with swear words and all that. demeans the usual good nature of mudcat.

but i agree threads are becoming banned more and more and it is worrying. my thread aside which was closed, i share your concern.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:31 AM

It because we're not talking music!

So come on now - join in!

"Put yer fingers in yer ears and go Tingalingaloo!"


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 09:24 AM

i think thats why there is a music and bs section


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 09:39 AM

So all the non-music threads can be closed?

Whoopee!


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 09:53 AM

All, with the exception of the trollers and flamers, have pretty well accepted that reasonable moderation is necessary. As I understand the rules, it goes something like this.

As a rule, if two threads are talking about essentially the same thing, the messages are transferred and one is closed.

If a thread is nothing more than a personal attack, it is generally closed.

If a post is an attempt to hijack a thread, it can be deleted.

Copycat threads are looked at carefully, and if they add nothing to the discussion, they can be deleted. This is generally the call of Joe and Jeff.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: number 6
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:24 AM

Copycat threads .... "if they add nothing to the discussion" ... define this please ... as sometimes Copycat threads are just nonsensical ... harmless humour that many of us (including myself) enjoy.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:37 AM

Where are these rules to be seen?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: number 6
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:39 AM

They are on a plaque, hanging on the wall of the Mudcat Central's front lobby.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:40 AM

I bet it's in the FAQ where other stuff you say you aren't aware of, is posted, Shambles. This time I'm not going to go look it up for you.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:45 AM

Just as well...
-----------------

If a post is an attempt to hijack a thread, it can be deleted.

Are the multiple posts in this thread a candidate for deletion?

I may not agree with what you say


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:50 AM

clairerise, you give yourself far too much credit. You're a newcomer here who waded in quickly without reading existing threads. We can manage discord, chaos, and closed threads without your intervention. Your thread was another place to argue--but it didn't change any minds or effect any new policies. It just demonstrated that you were new here and didn't do your research before you started a new thread. It also demonstrated that for some, a good argument is how they get going every day. This is really old stuff

cordially,

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:53 AM

here we go again. 'newcomer' yeah bash the newcomer stilly. harmony was the last newcomer bashed and we soon lost her. maybe we can get rid of clairerise too.

just because someone is a newcomer doesnt mean they can't see what is going on.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:54 AM

Phew thank the powers that be lordy lordy.

Only one Bush thread at a time folks. Because 'essentially' they are all about Bush. And the same goes for Iraq too. I thought they were a bit thin on the ground lately, didnt realise they had all been combined.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:55 AM

Ah, another Troll heard from. . .


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:57 AM

"RECIPE FOR DELETION OR CLOSURE OF THREADS WHICH DO NOT BREAK ANY RULES AS OUTLINED ABOVE"

INGREDIENTS:
1 Moderator
1 Non-moderator
1 Generous quantity of alcoholic beverage of your choice

DIRECTIONS:

1) In a separate thread, stir moderator and non-moderator together so as to create a standing froth of conflict and ill feeling.

2) Have non-moderator start a thread. Alcoholic beverage may be added at this point, though it is not necessary. Its inclusion will definitely increase the chances of the thread developing inanity or irreverence which, though technically not infractions of the rules, have been known to "push the envelope".

3) Have moderator review non-moderator's post. If moderator's reaction to non-moderator's post is a rapid boil, the thread will be deleted or closed immediately. If moderator's reaction is only a slow boil, add a generous quantity of alcoholic beverage. This will cause the moderator to "accidentally" close or delete the thread.


This recipe has been tested in numerous forums, not just this one, and has been found to work consistently in a wide variety of environments.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: number 6
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:57 AM

Exactly Guest ..... it takes a while to feel this place out. In some aspects it is the Mad Catters Tea Party. Very confusing for the newly arrived. I think we should be more accomodating to them.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:59 AM

yes stilly. guests under the bed.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: number 6
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:01 PM

Oh Jeeezuz Be-Dubya ..... LOL !!

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:03 PM

Hey SRS, give the newbie a bit of a break. I've gone over the FAQ a few times, and I'm pretty sure that dealing with personal abuse, vitriol and the "give and take" between a small number of members with agenda and multiple (?) abusive GUESTS isn't very well covered.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:09 PM

Since when is a subsequently introduced list of Frequently Asked Questions judged to be the 'rules'?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:10 PM

This *newbie* doesn't sound so new.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:13 PM

how do you sound not new?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: number 6
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:14 PM

"This *newbie* doesn't sound so new."

What makes you think so?

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:16 PM

Unless you have some proof that the victim is really a witch for the mob to burn - perhaps it is better not to speculate?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:16 PM

The melody of the newbie's post sounds different but the harmony sounds the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:17 PM

Clairise above the hormonally imbalanced who inhabit this place.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: number 6
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:19 PM

"This *newbie* doesn't sound so new."

I'd say that statment falls under rule #3. I fell for it and so did Guest ... that post should be deleted.

RULE # 3
If a post is an attempt to hijack a thread, it can be deleted.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:21 PM

a seeming familiarity not usually seen in a newbie, just my opinion, doesn't mean it's true


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:24 PM

It was established in this thread that the closure of threads offers no advantage to the technical running of the site.

Closing threads

So why cannot all threads remain open?

As there would appear to be no rule that states they must be closed?

That link doesn't work, Shambles. Perhaps you meant this one?

joe clone


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:26 PM

This thread is a witch short. Calling number 3 - please come in -


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:34 PM

Do you need to be censored?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:36 PM

Art, there are ringers and trolls in this thread. Guests speaking as if they have some say in the things going on here, though they take no responsibility for their remarks by at least assigning a name. Many just attack at will to add to the confusion and anger. And an uppity newcomer who may or may not be a newcomer.

Good manners are useful. Sometimes plain speaking is also.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:37 PM

Let go of that newt silly. It's done no harm.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:38 PM

Giving an opinion is not hijacking.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:45 PM

Well I see that today THIS has become the official Shamblecentric thread!!! And I also see that the Shambo device du jour is the linked thread, so here's one that wasn't closed:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.CFM?threadID=12413#162427


Now in keeping with the Shambo Pattern for Shamblecentric Threads, I should wait a post or two before linking anything else.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:49 PM

Yes, there have been a number of threads closed or deleted lately. Things have been unusually nasty around here this last week. Somebody suggested it might be the full moon that made Mudcatters crazier than usual.

Mick did a pretty good summary of the way we do things. They aren't rules, but they are the general procedures we follow. The general principle is that moderators will use a variety of moderation techniques to keep the peace, but that moderation techniques are to be used sparingly. When things are in an uproar, we moderate more strictly. When things are calm, we moderate hardly at all.

Personal attacks, racism, and Spam are deleted when we find them, and we consider blank messages to be Spam. Multiples of ongoing threads are usually combined with the earlier thread by moving messages, or closed and redirected to the earlier thread. Here's what Mick said about our procedures:

    All, with the exception of the trollers and flamers, have pretty well accepted that reasonable moderation is necessary. As I understand the rules, it goes something like this.

    As a rule, if two threads are talking about essentially the same thing, the messages are transferred and one is closed.

    If a thread is nothing more than a personal attack, it is generally closed.

    If a post is an attempt to hijack a thread, it can be deleted.

    Copycat threads are looked at carefully, and if they add nothing to the discussion, they can be deleted. This is generally the call of Joe and Jeff.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:14 PM

So there in fact - and as the site's owners maintains in the following public statement - there are NO RULES then?

Since you are with us, you get to help us make the rules. Of late it seems that it is used for non-music related questions, comments, thoughts and stories. It may be like just a light conversation piece, or just killing time, or getting through a bad day, or anything non-academic (if you will). Or, just don't use it. It is what you make it. Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none.
Max


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:29 PM

" bash the newcomer stilly."

we wouldn't want to exaggerate a wee bit, would we? That's a pretty stretched use of 'bash'. That was a gentle, but firm 'clarification'.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:33 PM

Do we need to curb the troublemakers?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:42 PM

That's, right, Shambles. No rules. We are not slaves to mindless legalism here. Nonetheless, we do expect people to be civil toward one another. If they're not, we reserve the right to use moderation techniques to keep the peace.

Sometimes, those moderation techniques will work - and sometimes they will not. We also reserve the right to be human, and to be allowed to make occasional mistakes or to do things that other people might do otherwise.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:51 PM

It's time for Max to go on vacation for a week. The 'Cat usually crashes when he leaves. Give everyone time to go do something else for a while.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:54 PM

Sometimes, those moderation techniques will work - and sometimes they will not. We also reserve the right to be human, and to be allowed to make occasional mistakes or to do things that other people might do otherwise.

Some of those who would feel themselves somehow qualified to impose judgement upon their fellow posters seem to assume quite a number of rights - which they seem rather keen to deny to others.

But rules are supposed to apply to us all equally and are there to protect us all from abuse but some of our posters would appear to be above all sanction in the examples they set.

You have admitted that your current methods are unable to impose the peace that you require - so why do you continue with these same failed methods? When are you going to form your private members only club?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:54 PM

how do you justify closing all the bnp threads joe when they are top news for two days?

aren't you becoming judge and jury?

its a bit silly when the media is running big stories and mudcat wont allow them.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:56 PM

im well aware of sensitivites on the issue but those aside


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 02:42 PM

I for one have no wish to have a say in how Max's site is run (Shambles)

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:03 PM

Since you are with us, you get to help us make the rules.
Max


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:08 PM

The BNP has been on Mudcat before and it caused problems. Just beacause something tops the news in the UK doesn't mean it is of interest in the rest of the world anyway.
The arrest of 2 Duke Univerity basketball players on rape charges is one of the leads in the NYT today, can't see too many threads on the Mudcat about them!
The BNP deals in hate xenophobia, and racial prejudice and I for one don't want to see anything about them on this site.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:15 PM

Oh dear, Joe. You said "That's, right, Shambles. No rules." That will be something else for him to program on a permanent hot button.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:23 PM

I personally think that there is a good justification for a number of other reasons to close certain categories of thread. Many BS threads are topical and "personal" in the nicer sense, Happy Birthday threads and the like. Once the event has passed - a couple of weeks beyond, they serve no further purpose, why not close them for further posts. It may be interesting to read some old threads the following year, but not good reason to add postings.

There are a lot of threads which advertise a specific dated event. These are a kind of thread different from the blatant self-advertisement threads (no objection to those either) which keep a particular performers in out collective consciousness. Event based threads have a short shelf life. Once the event has happened, where do they belong? (There is currently one advertising the Yorkshire Mudcat Gathering - its main purpose is to inform about when and where - its secondary purpose is for attendees to comment imediately after the event - once that time has passed, new postings do not really serve much purpose, if any. If you want to discuss the event at a later date doesn't the discussion deserve a thread of its own? Keep the original for reference, but close it to new postings - you can always put a BLICKY to the original if you want people to read it.

Just a couple of thoughts!
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:09 PM

"" bash the newcomer stilly." "

I read that as "bash the newcomer silly."


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:21 PM

Obviously, if you can bash newcomers silly enough, they will fit right in here...


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:21 PM

I did too *grin*...but I copy/pasted to get my reply..never even noticed the typo..if it was one.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Janie
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:14 PM

How's this for thread drift! We live right outside of Durham, NC. My young son plays club lacrosse, has attended Duke summer lacrosse camps for the past 4 years and has absolutely worshipped the Duke lacrosse players who help with the camps. We are reeling from this mess. It is a shock, Giok, to hear some one from all the way across the pond mention it.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 12:06 AM

Janie, that story has gotten a plenty of ink this last few days. Lots of complicated issues in this one. I hope your son does okay as this goes through the court of public opinion.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 01:02 AM

This be just silly.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:57 AM

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=90535&messages=298#1717294

What is it Joe? Are we now subject to Mick's rules (whatever he may decide they are)?

Can you please get your acts together BEFORE you make these public anouncements and provide some way that our forum knows when they are being made in any 'official' capacity or when they are just the personal wishes and opinions of a fellow poster?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:35 AM

Shambles!


Duh, I AM a slowcoach!

Since you are with us, you get to help us make the rules.
Max


HELP us make the rules, not MAKE the rules yourself.

Help US. MAX says there is an US!!! Dontcha think he chose who that US he said, might be?????

Like JOE????? And the rest of the volunteers????


~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 11:17 AM

That's, right, Shambles. No rules. We are not slaves to mindless legalism here.
Joe Offer


Susan - as far as I am concerned and whoever the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team may refer to as 'we' or 'us' - these terms will cover and include all contributors to our forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 11:29 AM

Doesn't it depend on what MAX said and meant????

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 11:40 AM

I am always guided by Max's past public statements. I will be guided by any future ones.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Which technical person is going to take the blame for showing those with edit buttons how to closed threads?

It is the most pointless exercise ever but now that the concept is up and running - everyone else on our seems to want threads to be closed.

Every poster can start threads - perhaps every poster can be given to power to also close them?

Oh - I was overlooking the fact that if an individual poster does not choose to click on a thread and open it - it is effectively closed.

Can someone please explain when it is right to refresh a thread (provided someone has not closed it) and when it is right to start a new one? For it would appear that both can be judged to be equally wrong and for exactly the same reasons..........


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 04:32 AM

Can some one explain the above?

And perhaps explain exactly what is judged to be a redundant thread and who judges this?

And why all threads cannot remain open?


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Subject: RE: BS: why all the closed threads?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 04:43 AM

I judge most of your threads to be redundant, on the grounds that they are mostly duplicates.
I know what would happen to them if I had the power.
Giok


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 11 July 1:56 PM EDT

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