Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin

DigiTrad:
THE LAKES OF COL FIN
THE LAKES OF COL FLYNN


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: History of Lake of Coolfin (Col Fin) (50)
(origins) Deep and false water... (22)
Lyr Req: The Lakes of Coolfin (5) (closed)


GUEST,DG 18 Apr 06 - 08:38 AM
GUEST,IS 19 Apr 06 - 03:49 AM
GUEST,DG 19 Apr 06 - 04:16 AM
pavane 19 Apr 06 - 10:27 AM
jonm 19 Apr 06 - 10:35 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 19 Apr 06 - 03:00 PM
GUEST,DG 20 Apr 06 - 02:54 AM
GUEST,Yozza 26 Sep 13 - 05:31 PM
GUEST 26 Sep 13 - 06:52 PM
Joe Offer 10 Jun 20 - 10:49 PM
Reinhard 10 Jun 20 - 11:56 PM
Jack Campin 11 Jun 20 - 02:17 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Jun 20 - 03:33 AM
GUEST,Jim bainbridge 11 Jun 20 - 07:18 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Jun 20 - 07:22 AM
GUEST 11 Jun 20 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 11 Jun 20 - 06:20 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Jun 20 - 04:59 AM
GUEST 12 Jun 20 - 05:18 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Jun 20 - 08:10 AM
GeoffLawes 12 Jun 20 - 09:42 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Jun 20 - 10:16 AM
Snuffy 12 Jun 20 - 10:41 AM
meself 12 Jun 20 - 11:17 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: The Lakes of Shillin
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:38 AM

Hello everyone,

I'm in the process of working out the above song, particularly the Nic Jones version, but I also like the Alasdair Roberts more sombre version as well.
However,
I have absolutely no idea where to start when it comes to working out the tune... Does anyone have any tips? Tunings? Chords?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

-Dg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin
From: GUEST,IS
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 03:49 AM

I have the 'From The Devil To A Stranger' LP by Nic Jones, and it gives notes for the tunings on some songs - but not 'The Lakes of Shilin.' I don't know the source for Nic's melody. The Alasdair Roberts version appears to be derived from Sheila Stewart's one, which she calls 'Willie Leonard', but I couldn't tell you anything about the tuning!

Sorry - this isn't a very helpful response.

Good luck...

IS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:16 AM

Thanks for the response... I've been searching far and wide for this one with no luck.
I'll see if I can find any more info and post it up here if I do. It really is a great tune though. I'm surprised more people have done it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin
From: pavane
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:27 AM

Also known as 'Lakes of Cool Flyn' I think, and other variants of the name, so you could look for them?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin
From: jonm
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:35 AM

The Peter Kennedy book, "Folksongs of Britain and Ireland" has a version of both words and melody. The tune is pretty much the same as the Martin Carthy/John Kirkpatrick version, but would at least give you a start for the Nic Jones version. I don't know the Alasdair Roberts one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Tune Add: THE LAKES OF SHILIN
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 03:00 PM

Nic's tune for THE LAKES OF SHILIN (one l in his spelling!) is more like The Banks of the Bann tune than the one I use (learned from Dave Burland's singing originally IIRC. I haven't bothered looking at the other sources I've got for the tune, since it's Nic's you're interested in).

I've put a transcription of the tune below (I've used the general abc ornament sign - the tilde - but it's usually an upper mordent. It's also not always clear when he slides from a note on one word to the note on the following word, something I've noted before that he sometimes does, and I haven't tried to notate that) . Nic sings it in F and at a quick listen I'd assume he plays it in E with a capo on fret 1. The arrangement isn't very complicated and if I have time this week I might try and transcribe it. (I don't usually bother; I always do my own arrangements, but it can be an interesting exercise).

Mick



X: 1
T:The Lakes of Shilin
M:3/4
L:1/4
S:Nic Jones - The Devil To A Stranger
K:F
F/F/|F> F (F/E/)|~D C C/D/|F F> G|A2
w:Well it's ear-ly one_ morn-ing Bil-ly Hen-ry a-rose
z/C/|A A> B|(A/G/) F F|A c (c/d/)|c2
w:And straight to his com_rade's bed-chamb-er he_ goes
c/d/|d2 d/f/|~d c (A/B/)|c3/2 (F/4E/4) D|D2
w:Say-ing rise lov-ing com-rade let_ no-bo_dy know
D/E/|F> A G/F/|~D C> D|F HF (F/G/)|F2||
w:To the dark and chil-ly wat-ers a-bath-ing we'll_ go.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 02:54 AM

Thanks do much for that, when I get back from work tonight, I'll give it a go.

Cheers,

-Dg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: GUEST,Yozza
Date: 26 Sep 13 - 05:31 PM

Has anyone come up with the tuning that nic jones uses for The Lakes of Shilin?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:52 PM

http://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/inart_nicjones_guitarstyle.htm

Worth the read, Yozza.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD Version: The Lakes of Shilin (from Nic Jones)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 10:49 PM

THE LAKES OF SHILIN
(as sung by Nic Joes)

It was early one morning Billy Henry arose
Straight to his comrade's bed-chamber he goes
Saying, "Rise, loving comrade, let nobody know,
To the dark and chilly waters a-bathing we'll go."

So Billy he stripped and then he went in
And he swam the dark waters all around and around
Saying, "Oh my loving comrade, oh don't you go in
For I see there is a coffin in the Lakes of Shilin."

But the other one, he stripped and then he went in
And he swam the dark waters all around and around
Saying, "Oh my loving Billy, why did you go in
To the dark and chilly waters in the Lakes of Shilin."

Now there was an old woman who lived there close by
She went to Billy's parents and she made this reply:
"Your son he went to bathing as I've heard him say,
But now your Billy Henry he's as cold as the clay."

Down came his mother like one in despair,
She's a-wringing of her hands and a-tearing of her hair,
Saying, "Oh my Billy Henry why did you go in
To the dark and chilly waters in the Lakes of Shilin?"

So down came his father like one in despair,
He's a-wringing of his hands and a-tearing of his hair,
Saying, "I brought up a family of fine-bodied men,
And the best of them's drowned in the Lakes of Shilin."

So it's down came his sweetheart like one in despair,
She's a-wringing of her hands and a-tearing of her hair,
Saying, "It's six months and better till my wedding day
But now my Billy Henry he's cold as the clay.

So we'll go around to Martin's, to Martin's by the shore.
And we'll hire us a small boat as we've done before
And we'll search the dark waters all around and around
Till we see that Billy Henry's fair body is found."

So they went around to Martin's, to Martin's by the shore
And they hired them a small boat as they'd done before.
And they searched the dark waters all around and all around
Till they saw that Billy Henry's fair body was found.

Oh, to see Billy's funeral, it was such a fine sight:
There was six handsome young men all dressed up in white,
There was six pretty maidens all dressed up in green,
Just to show that he'd been drowned in the Lakes of Shilin.



https://lyrics.fandom.com/wiki/Tony_Rose:The_Lakes_Of_Shilin (corrected)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQaADHrSmww


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: Reinhard
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 11:56 PM

Merge it with Lyr Req: The Lake of Coolfin ?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 02:17 AM

Not a lot of story to it.

Did something get lost in transmission?

    That's the whole thing, Jack. I transcribed it from the Nic Jones recording. -Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 03:33 AM

I find Jones's remake vebose and totally unnecessary, it over-eggs one of the most beautiful ballads of domestic tragedy
Enough damage was done to this ballad by the academics who threw in huge handfuls of folkloristic nonsense, along with a pinch of contempt for the folk-songmakers to add to the damage
The American Irish singer of the version below had more Child Ballads (15) in her reperoire than any other source singer I have encountered
Jim

From The New Green Mountain Songster, eds Helen Hartness Flanders, Elizabeth Flanders Ballard, George Brown and Phillips Barry (1939)
Lakes of Col Finn - Mrs EM Sullivan, Vermont
"From Lilith, the wild woman of perilous love, and Morgain la Fée, to the mood of a street ballad about one of the many Irish youths who have lost their lives in fresh water, is a long leap. But “The Lakes of Col Fin” takes it. Irish singers understand the lore of the ballad perfectly: Willie was not “drowned; he was taken away to Tir fa Tonny “Fairyland-under-wave,” by a water woman who had fallen in love with him. Legends of similar content are frequent in Middle Irish literature and have survived into modern popular tradition. We may compare Motherwell’s, “The Mermayden,” whose “bower is biggit o’ the gude ships5 keels, and the banes o5 the drowned at sea —a grim picture of the supernatural woman's cruelty in love, which the poet nicely caught—and Leyden5s “The Mermaid of Corrievre-kan,55 with a happy ending wrought by a clever hero who inveigles the mermaid into taking him back to bid farewell to his former love, “the maid of Colonsay.55 Both poems were based on local traditions and legends.
Popular tradition, however, does not mean popular origin. In the case of our ballad, the underlying folklore is Irish de facto, but not de lure: the ballad is of Oriental and literary origin, and has sunk to the level of the “folk” which has the keeping of folklore. To put it in a single phrase, memory not invention, is the function of the folk.
“The Lakes of Col Fin” was first printed by Dr. P. W. Joyce in 1872, in a version, with the air, obtained from a County Limerick singer. A full history of the ballad and of the folk tradition pertaining to it is in FSSNE, Bulletin No. 8, pp. 9-12.
Mrs. Flanders met this ballad as “The Lakes of Champlain” while talking about old songs with Mrs. Herbert Haley of Cuttingsville, Vermont. Mrs. Haley sang the words to the tune of “The Dying Cowboy” and had been told that the drowned boy was “Willie Lanard,” well known to the person who gave her the song.
Note Phillips Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: GUEST,Jim bainbridge
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 07:18 AM

This was one of Scan Tester's songs- 'the 'Lakes of Coalflin'- all about Willie Leonard.
As well as a great Sussex concertina player (1887-1972) he sang the occasional song- read Reg Hall's excellent biography/LP for more on Scan-
'I NEVER PLAYED FOR MANY POSH DANCES'   (now on CD)

the other song he had was 'I wish they'd do it now'.

Lough Sheelin is a fair sized lake in north central Ireland & maybe the original of 'Shillin'?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 07:22 AM

Nobody knows where it is, but Northern Ireland is one of the places suggested
It's all speculation but it's good that so may people claim it as 'local'
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 03:54 PM

Lough Sheelin is bordered by Cavan, Meath & Westmeath, so northern Ireland (small n) could fit that.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 06:20 PM

Loughinsholinn is (now) a townland in Derry/Londonderry where there was once a small lake on the River Bann - long since disappeared. I've seen it on old (maritime) charts/maps of the area and recall becoming convinced, many years ago, that it was a likely location for the incident.

Regards


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 04:59 AM

The song come under numerous locations Coolfinn was the first I ever encountered
I always find attempts to pin down origins of these songs very much 'Holy Grail' exercises in the futile
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 05:18 AM

but could you drown in that one, Martin?- Jim C- there's a lot of futility on Mudcat, you should know that by now?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 08:10 AM

"Futility"
Not noticed that - no pursuit for understanding is futile - I was just giving the results of mine over this particular issue
I'm sure those searching for The Holy Grail had a lot of jolly adventures on the way - if Monty Python is anything to go by
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 09:42 AM

Here are lots of Blue click links of performances up on YouTube

The Lake of Coolfin (Roud 189) - John "Jacko" Reilly
The Lakes of Coolfin · Monica Brennan
The Lakes of Shilin (Roud 189) ) - Sheila Stewart
The Lakes of Coolfin performed by Edward Connors
The Lake of Coolfin (Roud 189) - Tom Lenihan
The Lakes of Shillin (Roud 189) - Cathie Higgins
The Drowning of Willie Leonard (Roud 189) - LaRena Clark
he Lakes of Coalflin · Scan Tester




Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 10:16 AM

Thank's Geoff
Tom Lenihan's "As for Miss White" line always raises a smile around here - Roisín White lives here most of the year
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 10:41 AM

I first heard it sung by the Grehan Sisters when they appeared at Manchester Sports Guild with Packi Byrne back in 1968. It was on their LP which I bought that evening. Here it is (soundtrack-only) on YouTubr
Grehan Sisters: The Lake of Coolfin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin
From: meself
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 11:17 AM

As I've mentioned in one or two other threads on this song, I'm familiar with a couple of versions of this song from oral tradition in Manitoba; in one, the ghost of Willie Leonard appears to his sister before the drowning is discovered; the other has no supernatural element.

I always wondered if there were a whole sub-genre of anti-swimming songs .......


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 18 September 2:31 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.