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Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin From: meself Date: 12 Jun 20 - 11:17 AM As I've mentioned in one or two other threads on this song, I'm familiar with a couple of versions of this song from oral tradition in Manitoba; in one, the ghost of Willie Leonard appears to his sister before the drowning is discovered; the other has no supernatural element. I always wondered if there were a whole sub-genre of anti-swimming songs ....... |
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Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin From: Snuffy Date: 12 Jun 20 - 10:41 AM I first heard it sung by the Grehan Sisters when they appeared at Manchester Sports Guild with Packi Byrne back in 1968. It was on their LP which I bought that evening. Here it is (soundtrack-only) on YouTubr Grehan Sisters: The Lake of Coolfin |
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Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Jun 20 - 10:16 AM Thank's Geoff Tom Lenihan's "As for Miss White" line always raises a smile around here - Roisín White lives here most of the year Jim |
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Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin From: GeoffLawes Date: 12 Jun 20 - 09:42 AM Here are lots of Blue click links of performances up on YouTube
The Lake of Coolfin (Roud 189) - John "Jacko" Reilly |
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Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Jun 20 - 08:10 AM "Futility" Not noticed that - no pursuit for understanding is futile - I was just giving the results of mine over this particular issue I'm sure those searching for The Holy Grail had a lot of jolly adventures on the way - if Monty Python is anything to go by Jim |
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Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin From: GUEST Date: 12 Jun 20 - 05:18 AM but could you drown in that one, Martin?- Jim C- there's a lot of futility on Mudcat, you should know that by now? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune: The Lakes of Shilin From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Jun 20 - 04:59 AM The song come under numerous locations Coolfinn was the first I ever encountered I always find attempts to pin down origins of these songs very much 'Holy Grail' exercises in the futile Jim |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 11 Jun 20 - 06:20 PM Loughinsholinn is (now) a townland in Derry/Londonderry where there was once a small lake on the River Bann - long since disappeared. I've seen it on old (maritime) charts/maps of the area and recall becoming convinced, many years ago, that it was a likely location for the incident. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: GUEST Date: 11 Jun 20 - 03:54 PM Lough Sheelin is bordered by Cavan, Meath & Westmeath, so northern Ireland (small n) could fit that..... |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: Jim Carroll Date: 11 Jun 20 - 07:22 AM Nobody knows where it is, but Northern Ireland is one of the places suggested It's all speculation but it's good that so may people claim it as 'local' Jim |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: GUEST,Jim bainbridge Date: 11 Jun 20 - 07:18 AM This was one of Scan Tester's songs- 'the 'Lakes of Coalflin'- all about Willie Leonard. As well as a great Sussex concertina player (1887-1972) he sang the occasional song- read Reg Hall's excellent biography/LP for more on Scan- 'I NEVER PLAYED FOR MANY POSH DANCES' (now on CD) the other song he had was 'I wish they'd do it now'. Lough Sheelin is a fair sized lake in north central Ireland & maybe the original of 'Shillin'? |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: Jim Carroll Date: 11 Jun 20 - 03:33 AM I find Jones's remake vebose and totally unnecessary, it over-eggs one of the most beautiful ballads of domestic tragedy Enough damage was done to this ballad by the academics who threw in huge handfuls of folkloristic nonsense, along with a pinch of contempt for the folk-songmakers to add to the damage The American Irish singer of the version below had more Child Ballads (15) in her reperoire than any other source singer I have encountered Jim From The New Green Mountain Songster, eds Helen Hartness Flanders, Elizabeth Flanders Ballard, George Brown and Phillips Barry (1939) Lakes of Col Finn - Mrs EM Sullivan, Vermont "From Lilith, the wild woman of perilous love, and Morgain la Fée, to the mood of a street ballad about one of the many Irish youths who have lost their lives in fresh water, is a long leap. But “The Lakes of Col Fin” takes it. Irish singers understand the lore of the ballad perfectly: Willie was not “drowned; he was taken away to Tir fa Tonny “Fairyland-under-wave,” by a water woman who had fallen in love with him. Legends of similar content are frequent in Middle Irish literature and have survived into modern popular tradition. We may compare Motherwell’s, “The Mermayden,” whose “bower is biggit o’ the gude ships5 keels, and the banes o5 the drowned at sea —a grim picture of the supernatural woman's cruelty in love, which the poet nicely caught—and Leyden5s “The Mermaid of Corrievre-kan,55 with a happy ending wrought by a clever hero who inveigles the mermaid into taking him back to bid farewell to his former love, “the maid of Colonsay.55 Both poems were based on local traditions and legends. Popular tradition, however, does not mean popular origin. In the case of our ballad, the underlying folklore is Irish de facto, but not de lure: the ballad is of Oriental and literary origin, and has sunk to the level of the “folk” which has the keeping of folklore. To put it in a single phrase, memory not invention, is the function of the folk. “The Lakes of Col Fin” was first printed by Dr. P. W. Joyce in 1872, in a version, with the air, obtained from a County Limerick singer. A full history of the ballad and of the folk tradition pertaining to it is in FSSNE, Bulletin No. 8, pp. 9-12. Mrs. Flanders met this ballad as “The Lakes of Champlain” while talking about old songs with Mrs. Herbert Haley of Cuttingsville, Vermont. Mrs. Haley sang the words to the tune of “The Dying Cowboy” and had been told that the drowned boy was “Willie Lanard,” well known to the person who gave her the song. Note Phillips Barry |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: Jack Campin Date: 11 Jun 20 - 02:17 AM Not a lot of story to it. Did something get lost in transmission?
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: Reinhard Date: 10 Jun 20 - 11:56 PM Merge it with Lyr Req: The Lake of Coolfin ? |
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Subject: ADD Version: The Lakes of Shilin (from Nic Jones) From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Jun 20 - 10:49 PM THE LAKES OF SHILIN (as sung by Nic Joes) It was early one morning Billy Henry arose Straight to his comrade's bed-chamber he goes Saying, "Rise, loving comrade, let nobody know, To the dark and chilly waters a-bathing we'll go." So Billy he stripped and then he went in And he swam the dark waters all around and around Saying, "Oh my loving comrade, oh don't you go in For I see there is a coffin in the Lakes of Shilin." But the other one, he stripped and then he went in And he swam the dark waters all around and around Saying, "Oh my loving Billy, why did you go in To the dark and chilly waters in the Lakes of Shilin." Now there was an old woman who lived there close by She went to Billy's parents and she made this reply: "Your son he went to bathing as I've heard him say, But now your Billy Henry he's as cold as the clay." Down came his mother like one in despair, She's a-wringing of her hands and a-tearing of her hair, Saying, "Oh my Billy Henry why did you go in To the dark and chilly waters in the Lakes of Shilin?" So down came his father like one in despair, He's a-wringing of his hands and a-tearing of his hair, Saying, "I brought up a family of fine-bodied men, And the best of them's drowned in the Lakes of Shilin." So it's down came his sweetheart like one in despair, She's a-wringing of her hands and a-tearing of her hair, Saying, "It's six months and better till my wedding day But now my Billy Henry he's cold as the clay. So we'll go around to Martin's, to Martin's by the shore. And we'll hire us a small boat as we've done before And we'll search the dark waters all around and around Till we see that Billy Henry's fair body is found." So they went around to Martin's, to Martin's by the shore And they hired them a small boat as they'd done before. And they searched the dark waters all around and all around Till they saw that Billy Henry's fair body was found. Oh, to see Billy's funeral, it was such a fine sight: There was six handsome young men all dressed up in white, There was six pretty maidens all dressed up in green, Just to show that he'd been drowned in the Lakes of Shilin. https://lyrics.fandom.com/wiki/Tony_Rose:The_Lakes_Of_Shilin (corrected) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQaADHrSmww |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: GUEST Date: 26 Sep 13 - 06:52 PM http://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/inart_nicjones_guitarstyle.htm Worth the read, Yozza. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Lakes of Shilin From: GUEST,Yozza Date: 26 Sep 13 - 05:31 PM Has anyone come up with the tuning that nic jones uses for The Lakes of Shilin? |
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Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin From: GUEST,DG Date: 20 Apr 06 - 02:54 AM Thanks do much for that, when I get back from work tonight, I'll give it a go. Cheers, -Dg |
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Subject: Tune Add: THE LAKES OF SHILIN From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Date: 19 Apr 06 - 03:00 PM Nic's tune for THE LAKES OF SHILIN (one l in his spelling!) is more like The Banks of the Bann tune than the one I use (learned from Dave Burland's singing originally IIRC. I haven't bothered looking at the other sources I've got for the tune, since it's Nic's you're interested in). I've put a transcription of the tune below (I've used the general abc ornament sign - the tilde - but it's usually an upper mordent. It's also not always clear when he slides from a note on one word to the note on the following word, something I've noted before that he sometimes does, and I haven't tried to notate that) . Nic sings it in F and at a quick listen I'd assume he plays it in E with a capo on fret 1. The arrangement isn't very complicated and if I have time this week I might try and transcribe it. (I don't usually bother; I always do my own arrangements, but it can be an interesting exercise). Mick X: 1 T:The Lakes of Shilin M:3/4 L:1/4 S:Nic Jones - The Devil To A Stranger K:F F/F/|F> F (F/E/)|~D C C/D/|F F> G|A2 w:Well it's ear-ly one_ morn-ing Bil-ly Hen-ry a-rose z/C/|A A> B|(A/G/) F F|A c (c/d/)|c2 w:And straight to his com_rade's bed-chamb-er he_ goes c/d/|d2 d/f/|~d c (A/B/)|c3/2 (F/4E/4) D|D2 w:Say-ing rise lov-ing com-rade let_ no-bo_dy know D/E/|F> A G/F/|~D C> D|F HF (F/G/)|F2|| w:To the dark and chil-ly wat-ers a-bath-ing we'll_ go. |
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Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin From: jonm Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:35 AM The Peter Kennedy book, "Folksongs of Britain and Ireland" has a version of both words and melody. The tune is pretty much the same as the Martin Carthy/John Kirkpatrick version, but would at least give you a start for the Nic Jones version. I don't know the Alasdair Roberts one. |
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Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin From: pavane Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:27 AM Also known as 'Lakes of Cool Flyn' I think, and other variants of the name, so you could look for them? |
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Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin From: GUEST,DG Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:16 AM Thanks for the response... I've been searching far and wide for this one with no luck. I'll see if I can find any more info and post it up here if I do. It really is a great tune though. I'm surprised more people have done it. |
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Subject: RE: The Lakes of Shillin From: GUEST,IS Date: 19 Apr 06 - 03:49 AM I have the 'From The Devil To A Stranger' LP by Nic Jones, and it gives notes for the tunings on some songs - but not 'The Lakes of Shilin.' I don't know the source for Nic's melody. The Alasdair Roberts version appears to be derived from Sheila Stewart's one, which she calls 'Willie Leonard', but I couldn't tell you anything about the tuning! Sorry - this isn't a very helpful response. Good luck... IS |
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Subject: The Lakes of Shillin From: GUEST,DG Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:38 AM Hello everyone, I'm in the process of working out the above song, particularly the Nic Jones version, but I also like the Alasdair Roberts more sombre version as well. However, I have absolutely no idea where to start when it comes to working out the tune... Does anyone have any tips? Tunings? Chords? Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers, -Dg |
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