add folksinger and stir....

Subject: add folksinger and stir....
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 10:47 AM

A bunch of people who have been playing Irish music together for a few years have invited me to sing with them. They've never had a singer before, and I've never sung with a band before, so I'm a little uncertain about how to mix a singer into this ensemble. They are a couple of fiddlers, a couple of guitar/banjo/bouzouki players, a couple of recorder/whistle/flute players, and a hammer dulcimer-er. They play from sheet music, usually all playing the melody. Just adding my voice on top of everyone else playing the melody doesn't seem like the best way to go. When I listen to groups like Solas and others with singers, I hear the instruments playing counter melody rather than what the singer is singing. Since most folk music doesn't come in "arrangement for voice and six-piece folk band", I'm assuming these musicians are writing their own arrangements and probably making up a lot of it as they go along. I don't think the people I'll be singing with are able to do that, and I'm no arranger, so I'm looking for suggestions on how to make this work.

Thanks for your help - and yes, I am incredibly excited that they want me to sing with them (Hey mom, I'm in a band!)

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 12:12 PM

I would give them credit for realizing that it would be a bit unusual for a vocalist to sing harmony to an instrument. I am certain that the potential for the need to make certain adjustments has been considered. If they only work from sheet music, I suppose a quick fix would be for certain ones of them to play a third or fifth transposition - if they can do that by sight. However, this doesn't really solve the problem since parallel harmonies quickly become boring. Just go prepared to sing your best and see what happens. The challenge will probably be a healthy thing for all. Good luck!

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 01:15 PM

Thanks Allan, I have thought about asking some of the instruments to play a harmony like what might be sung as harmony - since I have an alto voice I'm used to picking out lower thirds and fifths so I can probably write that out for them. Another idea we've tried is having the instruments play a verse, me sing with just the guitar, and alternate.

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 03:28 PM

Just relax and forget yourself and have a good time, Susan-Marie. I was invited to join in a session with a number of instrumentalists who play a heck of a lot better than I do. I was apprehensive about it, but I kinda got pushed into it because the woman who organized the session is my significant other. Well, when the music got too complicated for me to play along, I started singing along, and everybody liked it. That's the way it has worked out - sometimes I play the harmonica or guitar, and sometimes I sing. I can't say I mind it when people say something about my "beautiful voice," although I hadn't really thought of it that way myself. They don't seem to mind my guitar or harmonica, either, although I'm still pretty self-conscious about that.
It doesn't really matter if somebody hits a wrong note here or there. The idea is to make music together, and that act of creation is something wonderful and spontaneous. Just let it happen, and don't worry about it - your "instrument" can make just as much a contribution as theirs.
One thing I'd suggest - think of yourself as an organic part of the group. Don't think that they're accompanying you, or that you're singing along with them. The greatest pleasure comes when you feel at one with everyone who is involved in the process of making the music.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 03:36 PM

Wow, Joe! Love that last line! I feel like carving a plaque or something with those words upon it. No kidding!

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 04:01 PM

Yeah, a WOW from me too, Joe. I guess I am apprehensive because these people have been playing together for a few years and I don't want them to regret their invitation. But I will take your advice and relax and enjoy it - it probably took them a while to learn to fit together, so it's going to take some time for me to fit in too. Thanks for your encouragement.

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 06:43 PM

Hi Susan-Marie. Enjoy yourself - I just loved singing and playing in folk bands. These have been the most satisfying musical times, but best of all, I have been fortunate enough that these people have become my best friends over the years, and we've shared weddings, births and deaths during that time.

There are lots of musical arrangements for Irish music on the Web and I'd be surprised if your new group couldn't find a few pieces that were a quick fit. The site that immediately comes to mind is Barry Taylor's excellent collection of Celtic Midis. You can use NoteWorthy Composer (or similar) to print the music for each instrument in the arrangement ....but I suspect that this is probably a bit further down the road in your new relationship.

Break a leg.

Regards
John

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Don Meixner
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 11:37 PM

Hello Susan-Marie,

It is rare that I would throw a bucket of coldwater on any singers being one myself. When I play an instrument it is strictly for rhythym and as a visual aid. And yes I do play in a band. Kinda the Kingston Trio/Clancy Bros. with drums. My experience singing with a group of musicians like you have mentioned is this. The circle at The Limerick Pub, mainly Fiddlers, whistlers and the conordion player get done with a tune and one of my band mates and I launch into "Brennan on the Moor" or "Come Along" and the fiddlers, whistlers, and conordion players need to take a leak, put money in the meter, take a nap, wax their legs, anything but be around people who can only sing. In Syracuse we run towards instrumental folk snobs it seems. ( I met a symphony harpist once who said to me, " O'Carolan? Irish harp music? But thats only folkmusic." so I guess the knife of snobbery cuts both ways.)

My advice, sing with this band! Play a rhythym instrument yourself for your own direction, but enjoy the experience. Remember that the sound you hear in the deepest past of traditional music is the human voice. Anything else is just elegant window dressing.

Don Meixner

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Hank
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 08:39 AM

Along with the other advice given, don't be afraid to try singing harmony to their melody. The effect will be interesting in the very least. You can decide if you like it or not. I'm trying to imangine how it would sound, and I think it would be good once in a while, if only because everyone sings melody in sing a longs. (not really, but it seems that way)

It could be the new twist that gives you and the band your 15 minutes of fame. It could flop of course, but you find that out by doing.

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: fairy godmother
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 01:19 PM

Enjoy, this is almost exactly the line-up I used to play with a few years ago, we found that the hammered dulcimer was an excellent instrument for harmonies of the low variety, I'm sure if they really tried they could find some little 'licks' between lines and such, the manin thing, as someone said earlier is to think of yourself as another instrument and dammit, go for the harmonies of they come to you, it'll blow people away. It's funny how reading the dots can be restrictive isn't it? You think that reading music gives some sort of freedom, but in a session situation it can really hold you back, I was talking to a wonderful fiddler here in London last night and she was very nervous because she ca't play be ear, and she makes her living from taching the fiddle, yet in the session she was a real beginner, thought for the day, sorry to ramble. Bye. Sue

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 02:32 PM

This may sound a bit weird, but a friend who was a singer in a similar kind of group used to talk about her first days with the group, and she once said that she had started off thinking about the instruments around her as a sort of background, like you might sing to a record, or fronting a big band; but very quickly she realized that this was a kind of fear, as if she wasn't a part of the group, and also that there was so much going on that she had to wall everyone off as a single accompanying sound. And then she had got into a kind of slow experimenting, doing things like trying to find the instrument whose timbre was closest to her voice, and working with that for awhile, and then listening to how that instrument worked with others and imitating that, and then shifting to other instruments, timbres, rhythms, etc., and then working back to how the voice had all those potentially and also had its own autonomy as an instrument. Never having been a singer with a group like that, I don't know whether it is any good as advice, but it struck me at the time as a fascinating way of thinking about, and perhaps getting into singing with a group. (It may work better for jazz than folk).

Yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 12:37 PM

Thanks for your suggestions and encouragement, everyone. Our next rehearsal is tomorrow night and I'm looking forward to thinking of myself as an instrument in the band, and maybe trying some harmonies.

John, I had no idea there WERE arrangements of Irish folk music other than just a melody line, I'm off to look for the Celtic midi site and others. Thanks for the tip.

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: jets
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 01:16 PM

Susan Marie . Keep us posted on this for It sounds very interesting.

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From:
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 01:17 PM

dear Susan I'm a singer too.

Did I understand you to mean that no one plays the chords? They should be learned. The sheet music usually has this above the notation. Otherwise, they're not too hard to find.

Now, if they asked you to join them, then shouldn't they back off and let you be heard? When you are singing, then they play around with the chords, fiddlers using a long bowed note or notes, creating the movement of the chords, and the others too, then there's even dropping out (heaven forbid that they don't get to play for a little while- personally I find that space very refreshing!). What they do behind you shouldn't compete with the vocal. Unless you find some beautiful match, an instrumental tone that complements your own vocals. I know this is hard in a big band. Everyone wants to play.

Of course you can't use the words "back off"--how about..."let's create some space here" or here's another trick: don't try to compete, but sing normally, even a little light, then when they can't hear you, some sensitive soul will realize that something needs to be done...

Good luck

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Liza
Date: 17 Feb 99 - 10:26 AM

forgot to sign my name on this last message, not intentional!

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Ian Kirk (inactive)
Date: 17 Feb 99 - 04:04 PM

Good luck with the band Susan Marie. Musicians wanting a singer to fit in with the band and sing along to their tunes adds another dimension to the band for sure but makes it a bit hard for the singer sometimes. If you get a good rapport going with the instrumentalists and when and if you feel good and ready, find a song you like to sing and they don't know ask them to accompany you! Interestingly enough from the audiences point of view the singer gets most of the attention and sympathy if the band are not playing along with the singer. Just a thought to stick in the stew pot and stir around with all the other good stuff above.

Ian

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: BillyJ
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 03:03 PM

Susan Marie music is fun and most musicians enjoy other contributions i play in sessions in Co Antrim in N Ireland and its great to be asked to contribute a song i also run a folk group and open sessions in order to give everyone their 5 minutes of glory as a legendary guitarist once said. Get in there and enjoy it you can do something 90% of your audience would love to be doing

Billy J Ireland

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: tonyarcher
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 03:10 PM

??

whats a conordion ??

Subject: RE: add folksinger and stir....
From: Mo
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:21 PM

One can only imagine it to be an accordion, but played by someone who doesn't appreciate others' music. Damned if I'll ever play it then!

Mo