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BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1

Once Famous 22 Apr 06 - 04:56 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM
Liz the Squeak 22 Apr 06 - 05:15 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 06 - 05:23 PM
Once Famous 22 Apr 06 - 05:25 PM
bobad 22 Apr 06 - 06:42 PM
Sorcha 22 Apr 06 - 07:14 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 06 - 07:18 PM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Apr 06 - 09:08 PM
yrlancslad 22 Apr 06 - 09:17 PM
yrlancslad 22 Apr 06 - 09:21 PM
gnu 22 Apr 06 - 09:38 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 06 - 10:27 PM
Joe Offer 23 Apr 06 - 02:33 AM
Once Famous 23 Apr 06 - 05:48 AM
GUEST,G 23 Apr 06 - 09:42 AM
alanabit 23 Apr 06 - 10:47 AM
folk1e 23 Apr 06 - 11:07 AM
GUEST,dianavan 23 Apr 06 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,DG 23 Apr 06 - 01:12 PM
Don Firth 23 Apr 06 - 02:34 PM
GUEST 23 Apr 06 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Old Viking 23 Apr 06 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,DG 23 Apr 06 - 04:02 PM
Don Firth 23 Apr 06 - 04:14 PM
pdq 23 Apr 06 - 04:23 PM
Don Firth 23 Apr 06 - 04:37 PM
GUEST 23 Apr 06 - 04:47 PM
Sorcha 23 Apr 06 - 04:48 PM
Anonny Mouse 23 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM
Jeri 23 Apr 06 - 05:43 PM
Grab 23 Apr 06 - 05:45 PM
Sorcha 23 Apr 06 - 06:13 PM
Joe Offer 23 Apr 06 - 08:23 PM
folk1e 23 Apr 06 - 08:36 PM
Little Hawk 23 Apr 06 - 10:01 PM
Ebbie 23 Apr 06 - 10:05 PM
Don Firth 23 Apr 06 - 11:43 PM
dianavan 23 Apr 06 - 11:49 PM
Desert Dancer 24 Apr 06 - 01:03 AM
Joe Offer 24 Apr 06 - 02:07 AM
Folkiedave 24 Apr 06 - 02:51 AM
Georgiansilver 24 Apr 06 - 02:53 AM
alanabit 24 Apr 06 - 04:00 AM
Paco Rabanne 24 Apr 06 - 05:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Apr 06 - 10:13 AM
Pied Piper 24 Apr 06 - 10:17 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 24 Apr 06 - 10:23 AM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 10:58 AM
CarolC 24 Apr 06 - 11:27 AM
folk1e 24 Apr 06 - 01:16 PM
Don Firth 24 Apr 06 - 01:39 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 01:44 PM
Georgiansilver 24 Apr 06 - 02:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Apr 06 - 03:02 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 03:07 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 03:08 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 24 Apr 06 - 03:17 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,DG 24 Apr 06 - 03:32 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 03:37 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 03:39 PM
GUEST,DG 24 Apr 06 - 03:41 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 24 Apr 06 - 03:42 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 03:50 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 03:52 PM
bobad 24 Apr 06 - 04:13 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 05:09 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Apr 06 - 05:15 PM
Once Famous 24 Apr 06 - 06:29 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 06:42 PM
bobad 24 Apr 06 - 06:53 PM
Jack the Sailor 24 Apr 06 - 06:57 PM
Folkiedave 25 Apr 06 - 02:50 AM
GUEST,DG 25 Apr 06 - 04:24 AM
Jack the Sailor 25 Apr 06 - 05:35 AM
folk1e 25 Apr 06 - 07:29 AM
folk1e 25 Apr 06 - 07:32 AM
Once Famous 25 Apr 06 - 08:01 AM
GUEST,Limony 25 Apr 06 - 08:29 AM
jacqui.c 25 Apr 06 - 08:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Apr 06 - 08:45 AM
GUEST 25 Apr 06 - 11:41 AM
LilyFestre 25 Apr 06 - 11:53 AM
Jack the Sailor 25 Apr 06 - 12:12 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 25 Apr 06 - 02:20 PM
LilyFestre 25 Apr 06 - 02:39 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Apr 06 - 07:15 PM
Don Firth 25 Apr 06 - 07:35 PM
dianavan 25 Apr 06 - 08:12 PM
Don Firth 25 Apr 06 - 09:22 PM
dianavan 25 Apr 06 - 10:27 PM
SINSULL 27 Apr 06 - 02:02 PM

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Subject: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 04:56 PM

Not necessarily in any order and rather indifferent, as usual who is offended:

* Fish and chips in London is over rated. Tried it a couple of times for highly recommended places by locals. This is a meal? McDonald's has better french fries and just what kind of fish is it anyway? No one's talking.

* London is quite clean, at least in Westminster where I stayed. Hung out in Soho, Picadilly circus, also. Pretty wild and fun.

* Meat in London is horrific. Someone needs to show them how to make a hamburger and what a steak is supposed to be. But good Italian food in London. Chinatown here is weird and they don't even know what an egg roll is.

* Decadence galore as phone booths feature pre-printed sex ads that are stuck up inside them. No, didn't call any.

* Mentioned in another thread, you have to ask for water in a restaurant here. Why?

* Some nice helpful people, overall. But some rude people also. Riding the underground will get you shoved around when it is busy.

More later.

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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM

Being shoved around on the tube would be, I would think, far preferable to getting shot on the L.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:15 PM

One comment MG, not every phone box has those cards you mention... there are people who are employed to go and take them out. There's also a person from Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs whose job it is to go and call up these ladies and make sure they pay their taxes... they're classed as 'entertainers'....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:23 PM

So tell us Martin, have you shared your Mudcat persona with your son while there?

Curious minds want to know what your flesh and blood thinks of your persona.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:25 PM

Send me a PM, Oh Guest with no courage and I might just tell you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: bobad
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 06:42 PM

Good answer, Martin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:14 PM

And, I found London quite filthy...East London at least...City centre wasn't so bad.

So, ask for water...sheesh.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:18 PM

Do any of you people who claim to know enough to tell us what London is like have any idea how big it is? And what area of it you actually saw? In martin's case about one square mile. Carry on with your in depth anaylsis!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:08 PM

"McDonald's has better french fries"

Shoestring chips have a much higher fat content than 'chunky chips'. The type of oil also affects taste - best British chips used to be done in lard.


"Meat in London is horrific. Someone needs to show them how to make a hamburger and what a steak is supposed to be."

Aussie meat is favoured for US hamburgers, and steaks, I'm told. Also cheap burger meat tastes different from prime ground beef. Can't send as much there as they(and we)'d like, and since UK joined EU, same thing there. But please don't come here, just take my word... British style 'burger patties' used to not be 100% meat, but contain grain products for fillers and extenders. British meat is more often used for more interesting dishes than hamburger patties, for which traditionally used only the lowest grades of meat were used = including lips, and the bits that we now know MG has eaten! :-) - they were often the food of the poor. You must not have eaten in Maccas - they insist that the food is the same best quality bland shit everywhere worldwide.

Quality fish and chip shops used to let you select your type and piece from the display then batter and cook it on the spot.


Narrow mindedness mainly consists in trying to prove to others that one is not interested in understanding others.


"Surely far more interesting is a bore who doth roam,
than one who has remained at home."


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: yrlancslad
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:17 PM

Yanks who visit (a small part of) London and then proceed to tell us about what the UK is like really piss me off. Plus denigrating the food from somebody whose national dish is the Frnkfurter is really rich!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: yrlancslad
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:21 PM

Not to mention grits and okra!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:38 PM

Okay... let me say this... Marty, me lad... you know that since you and I had a "falling out" over a year ago, I have stepped to the side for most accounts, but... I must say... I am intrigued about your take on your tour. I actually do want to hear what you have to say.

As long as it is factual and objective, I welcome it and hope to learn something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 10:27 PM

I would take martin's observations with a very large grain of salt.

It is not possible to walk into a fish and chip shop and ask for 'fish and chips'. They would look at you as if you had landed from Mars. There would be a big menu well displayed listing all the different fish. You choose and you get whatever you pick.

He spoke to 'locals' in Westminster, Picadilly and Soho? I doubt it martin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:33 AM

I had trouble finding good food when I was on my own in England, but not when I was with British Mudcatters - they made sure I was well fed. I kept hoping to find good Fish and Chips, but fish and chips I had was invariably bad - greasy and not quite done. I did find a pub in Whitby that serve a great Yorkshire pudding with roast meat.
Bill Sables took me to a shop in York for a "pork shandy," which was the tastiest pork sandwich I ever ate - and I also had some terrific meals in the Sables house. Ian Chandler and his family served me their pet lamb for dinner one night - and it was delicious. Micca and Kat are both terrific cooks, so I ate well in London.
But I did't like the fish and chips, and rarely found beer that I liked - there was one beer called "Grouse Beater" that was wonderful, but I found it only once. I like Newcastle Brown Ale, but that's something I dring at home all the time.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:48 AM

Traditional English food is basically..............rubbish!

Most pubs I either was in or saw simply said "fish and chips"

Has London ever heard what BBQ is?

As far as English beer, I tried a few different ones. OK, but I liked the Bavarian beer in Munich better.

Now here's one to rock you!

Coca-Cola is better in Europe! The true American champagne.
Why? Coke in Europe is made with sugar, like it was in the U.S. up until years ago. In the U.S., it is now made with corn syrup as a sweetner. Also, restaurants serve it frequently chilled in those wonderfully shaped famous glass bottles. Who needs a glass? Those bottles were designed to be picked up and drank from almost 100 years ago. The only thing wrong is the price. Way over inflated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,G
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 09:42 AM

Gnu @9:38, great attitude - love the approach.

Guest @10:27, Boorish as usual and as expected. (I know, but I still have a headache)


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:47 AM

"Traditional English food is basically..............rubbish!"
Er, are we talking about British farmhouse food, or about fish and chips, curries and hamburgers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: folk1e
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 11:07 AM

Come on.... if we are going to have a North / South Divide it must be usefull for something ;¬D
Pubs sell BEER if you want FOOD go to a reseraunt..... or dont moan about it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 12:59 PM

I don't think most countries serve their traditional food in a pub.

Of course if you're in Chicago, you can find wieners anywhere.

Coke? Its hardly in the same category as beer or wine. Soda pop is for kids and shouldn't be served with meals. It rots your teeth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:12 PM

Has London ever heard what BBQ is?

Why would they? It's rubbish.

Tips for eating in London from me (I live there, and I'm vegetarian so I couldn't care less what you think about the meat);
Falafel - always a winner
Indian Food - as above
For traditional British food go to some traditional pubs, not chains. The same goes for drinking beer. If you don't like the beer, try lager - especially Sam Smiths if you can get it (although there is no music in Sam Smiths pubs).


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:34 PM

The menu in American pubs (taverns) usually consists of beer nuts, small, overprice bags of potato chips, pretzels, and such, and if they have anything as substantial as a hamburger, it comes from a Juicy-Ray warming oven, has probably been sitting there for several hours (if not days), and tastes like grey mush on a soggy bun—generally referred to as "sweat-burgers" because of the beads of grease clinging to the inside of the waxed paper bag they're served in.

The moral is, if you're looking for a book, don't go to a hardware store. If you want to buy flowers, don't go to a gas station. Kind of elementary.

There used to be a chain of fish-and-chip shops—H. Salt Fish-and-Chips—around here that claimed to serve English-style fish and chips. How authentic it was, I don't know, but I was told by someone who should know (world traveler) that what they served there was pretty authentic. I loved 'em! Don't know whatever happened to H. Salt. I used to go there all the time.

As a matter of fact, a few days before we were married, Barbara and I were moving our furniture into our new apartment, and our first meal in our new apartment consisted of sitting on boxes at a card table eating H. Salt fish-and-chips from a nearby shop—by candlelight.

Rick Steves, travel expert, says that to really enjoy your travels and get the most out of your experience—and to avoid missing something really good that may be different from what you're used to—go with the flow. If something doesn't meet your expectations, then change your expectations. There is a good chance that you'll learn something.

If you're open to it.   

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:53 PM

Listen up folks you are being taken for a ride and it isn't on a red bus.

NO LOCAL IN LONDON would recommend a pub for fish and chips, any more than they would recommend a pint of beer from the chippy.

Someone's telling porkies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,Old Viking
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 03:54 PM

Since he's a hard-charging, flag-waving, American-first super-patriot (mask, cape, and a bald eagle on the chest of his red, white, and blue spandex body-stocking), I don't think you're going to hear anything good from Martin Gibson about anything in any place in the galaxy except for what's within smelling distance of Chicago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:02 PM

One food related point I will say about Chicago (I'm heading there in 3 weeks) is that the pizzas there are incredible. The best I've ever had.

Also the beer is insanely cheap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:14 PM

FYI – Fish & Chips. YUM!!

Apparently THEY are still around, but no longer in Seattle. Really too bad!

Thank you for reminding me, Martin. I'm going on a quest for a good English-style fish and chips shop.

(Drool drool!!)

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: pdq
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:23 PM

Don't forget the Four Monks brand "English Style Malt Vinegar".


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:37 PM

Verily!

The Spud fish and chips shops out in West Seattle and by Green Lake (where I first encountered malt vinegar) are very good. But the H. Salt shops were marvelous!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:47 PM

Why is your name not coming up as a 'guest' martin?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:48 PM

You are so wrong about chips....even if I don't like fish. Check this out...

Click!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM

Hey Martin! Welcome back to the good ole US of A! Felt the same was flying into NYC a millenium ago, and seeing Ms. Liberty! I truly HOPE you were able to get in touch with your "roots" and maybe SEE and FEEL and EXPERIENCE the emotional fallout and spectres of the past at some of the so-called "death camps." I know it moved ME Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond what I had so conveniently intellectualized. Even, if not THERE, many, many other places.

Why do I harp on this?? Because, by human suffering, bravery, and dedication we ARE ONE!! Meanwhile, on the "fun-side" I hope you ate 'til yer heart's content, and drank until you were ready to pass out. There is NOTHING remotely close to a GOOD English or German Ale or brew!!!!

As before, I wish you NO ill-will. You were gracious to me upon my entry here, and while I have bothered to read previous threads, folks can change, mature beyond their years, and FEEL history permeating their very cell structure. I wish this for you...and to all your naysayers here, a brief respite from the attack mode to the "wait and see" mode. Martin: you CAN be the "mensch" here. You can be a person people regard with esteem and integrity. You have seen a part of this little blue ball most any (or MANY) have not! I know you are better than the prolific and often profane "MG." Become what you know you are. End of my philosophic treatise for today. I have NOT seen the "wishing of a child dead," or mocking of a disabled person. Perhaps for the best. You have a "best" to offer. Do it, be it...the inevitable -A. Mouse! (no trap here---just well wishes that your serendipty was valuable-I don't see how it could NOT have been). Shalom with its multi-layered, multi-interpreted meaning! And yes, I am somewhat of a Hebrew enthusiast, so your response will NOT be in a vacuum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:43 PM

Martin, when ARE you coming back? (GUEST, he probably just logged in.)

I'm not that fond of the fish, but I loved the chips. Especially with a load of malt vinegar and salt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Grab
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:45 PM

Fish and chips in London is over rated.

Hint: they're chips, not French fries. Fish-wise, it'll nearly always say on the menu/price-list. If it doesn't, it'll be cod (which is the default).

London is quite clean, at least in Westminster where I stayed.

Most cities seem to have cleaned up their act really well in the last 10 years or so - which is just as well, since the only difference between the town centre and the local landfill was the shops.

Meat in London is horrific.

And you'll continue to find the same all around the UK. Don't eat in *any* chain pub (Brewer's Fayre, Beefeater, Hungry Horse, etc) - it's all crap. But a good pub/restaurant in the UK should be as good as places in the US.

Decadence galore as phone booths feature pre-printed sex ads that are stuck up inside them.

Free market economy, dude... ;-)

Mentioned in another thread, you have to ask for water in a restaurant here.

Biggest rip-off in the UK is the price of soft drinks in pubs/restaurants - they have *huge* mark-ups. This is one thing the US does right and UK pubs have no excuse over. If they're taking the piss too much, get tapwater.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 06:13 PM

But, oh my goodness, you have to ASK for water....heaven forbid!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 08:23 PM

Hey, you have to ask for water here in California, too. they say it's a conservation measure.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: folk1e
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 08:36 PM

Just checked, mine are hairy not crystal.... just like everyone else's
If you don't ask, how do they know you want water?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:01 PM

One thing you can do is crawl into the pub on your hands and knees, looking around haggardly and croaking..."W-a-a-a-ter! Wa-a-a-ter!" It helps if you have a parched and sunbleached appearance and are showing obvious signs of Sahara Desert level sunstroke.

This usually will get you water served right away in most English pubs, unless it's a Fawlty Towers type of establishment, in which case they will ask you rude questions which are essentially nonsequitors not worth answering.

Such stuffy places don't deserve your business anyway, and you should tell them so in no uncertain terms as you crawl back out the door. ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:05 PM

In London presenting yourself as looking 'haggard and sunstricken' would have about as much credibility as such a circumstance would in Juneau, Little Hawk. I understand they get just about as much rain as we do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 11:43 PM

I was just contemplating Martin's opening complaint in the other thread, which has since been merged with this one:

"YOU CAN'T GO TO A RESTAURANT AND GET WATER WITHOUT BUYING IT.

In america, they give you all of the water you want and then some."

That's pretty true about America. Especially when what you've ordered is a beer!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 11:49 PM

So true, Don. Especially stuff like Pabst Blue Ribbon and Lucky Lager. Do they still make that stuff?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 01:03 AM

Here in Tucson you can get Mexican bottled Coke which is made with sugar instead of corn syrup. I'm no Coke fan, so haven't tried it, but others are happy about it.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:07 AM

    rude questions which are essentially nonsequiturs not worth answering
Hey, I really like that phrase, Little Hawk. Do you mind if I use it on occasion? It applies aptly to certain situations that I encounter regularly....


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:51 AM

Whilst in Oregon I had some good beer and some crap beer, some good food and some crap food and some great service and some rude and surly service.

I didn´t judge American beer by the bad beer and I didn´t judge American food by the crap food and I didn´t.....well you get the picture.

I do hope you speak French and/or Spanish and German. You will find the rest of Europe very disappointing otherwise!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:53 AM

True that the traditional 'fish and chips' are not the food force to be reckoned with that they were when I was much younger. The reason for this is the development of low fat food oils for cooking instead of the lard or beef dripping that was so prevalent in the 50's 60's.
There are a few such chip shops remaining who use the traditional methods and I have driven over 60 miles just to get fish and chips (and peas) from them and found it worth it. By the way...fish, chips and peas are one of the healthiest of all the 'take away' meals in the UK, harbouring far less fat and calorific content than Indian/chines/cantonese etc.
True that if you eat in the majority of pubs you will get boil in the bag veg and not always top rate meat...served at times without style or flavour. As with anywhere else...pay the price and get the goods..you pay for what you get!
There are areas of the UK and certainly some pubs that serve excellent beer, especially 'Real ale' which is a favourite with the Folk scene. There is also a good choice of beer and dare I say something to suit every taste if you can find it.
I believe that if I go to Tunisia or Spain or Romania..I can find a plethora of food and drink items that are not what I am used to as I would if I went to Chicago!
Let's just keep things in perspective here. Martin (and a cross section of others I'm sure) have been to the UK and tried the fare here, finding it lacking to their taste, but may not have eaten at a class restaurant or drank real ale...
So what I'm saying is:- we can all travel but enjoy our home comforts. The experience is good but there's no place like home.
Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 04:00 AM

The trouble with whistle stop tours, is that although they get you around quickly enough to take a few snapshots of famous buildings, they don't teach you much about the local culture! I could take you out every day for a month in Cologne and you would barely scratch the surface of the history and culture in this city.
You could wander into a pub and drink a glass of Kölsch and then think you know what Kölsch tastes like. There are literally dozens of different types of Kölsch beer. Some of them I drink with relish, others I would not use to wash the mud off my boots.
I hope you had a good time in London Martin. Your best chance of seeing something good there - let alone drinking and eating well at a reasonable price - is to spend a few days with your son, if he really knows his way around.
Local knowledge is everything when you are travelling. Unless you get to know a few of the local people, all you really find is the same stuff you find in every other city.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 05:18 AM

Why doesn't anyone ever come to Hull?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:13 AM

Lots of people go to Hull, Ted. Just that most of 'em won't admit it;-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Pied Piper
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:17 AM

I'm still trying to work out what this strange combination of words means.
"Not necessarily in any order and rather indifferent, as usual who is offended"
Is it a question?

PP


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:23 AM

"Has London ever heard what BBQ is?

Why would they? It's rubbish."

Sorry, but I could not let that comment slip by. My guess is that if this guest was exposed to BBQ, they probably had something that was served up as fast food - just like the way the fish & chips were apparently served to Martin. For our friends in the UK, you need to try BBQ that is done right - cooked at low temperaturs in a smoker, not something burned to a crisp over a grill. Lightly spiced, maybe some sauce on the side. Give me a nice brisket that has been tenderized in a smoker for 8 to 10 hours. Or some "dry" ribs that fall off the bone. No need for drenching in some sickly sweet sauce. Mmmmm...   damn, I'm hungry already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:58 AM

Yes, Of course, the only possible comment about English food, saying that BBQ is better.

I've had Canadian BBQ, Cincinnati BBQ, Georgia BBQ, North Carolina BBQ, Texas BBQ and the King of all BBQ, Kansas City BBQ. They are all great in their own way but none are better than the Fish n'Chips I had in England. The idea of tourism is to enjoy what the new country has to offer, not to piss and moan about what is better about your home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:27 AM

Not necessarily in any order and rather indifferent, as usual who is offended

Pied Piper, I think it translates this way...

"These are not necessarily in order, and I am rather indifferent, as I usually am, about who will be offended by what I say."

( ...hope this helps ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: folk1e
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 01:16 PM

I went to Hull......... but I'm alright now :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 01:39 PM

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well, I contradict myself
(I am large; I contain multitudes)"
                      —Walt Whitman

Not all American beer tastes like gerbil urine. If you want the good stuff, you have to get it from the micro-breweries. Most well stocked grocery stores have it. There are some pretty good beers from Red Hook and Pyramid. The trick is to look for the off-brand beers, usually with whimsical names. One of my favorites is "Moose Drool," from a Montana micro-brewery.

As for judging a country's cuisine by one order of fish and chips—well, let me put it this way:   all Indians walk in single file. At least the one I saw did.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 01:44 PM

I had fantastic beer when I was in England. I expecially like the Tetley's Bitter, and the Guiness and Murphy's Stout which are much better there than here. But my favourite was the Molson's Canadian brewed in Manchester. It is much much better than the Canadian brewed in St. John's, NL and Toronto, Ont for local comsumption and better than the Canadian I can buy in the stores here in the US Southeast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:30 PM

Hey a lot of clever people come from Hull...................the not so clever ones always go back...........just joking Ted...I like Hull actually and I have been there and would go again.
Best wishes, Mike. Ps How is the gorgeous daughter these days?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:02 PM

"Has London ever heard what BBQ is?" What is it? B There's B & Q, but those are DIY stores.

Fish and Chip aren't that good in London anyway - much better up in the North of England.

Though there's a great chippy in Leigh-on-Sea, Southend. In fact one of the highlights of the excellent little Leigh-on-Sea Folk Festival which takes place in June is the chance to sample the fish and chips at the Mayflower in Old Leigh.

But I'd definitely advise visitors to steer clear of burger on a trip to England. Best stick to what the locals eat - Indian and Chinese or Italian. A high proportion of the chippies tend to fall into that category anyway - curry and chips, for example.

But did Martin get into any music while he was over?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:07 PM

MacGrath,

I had fish and chips at a chip stand in Middlesboro and at a restaurant in Hartlepool near the old docks. Quite excellent. I also had curry in middesboro with papadoms and Yorkshire pudding in York. I enjoyed every morsel tremendously.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:08 PM

Correction, Middlesbrough


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:17 PM

" "Has London ever heard what BBQ is?" What is it? B There's B & Q, but those are DIY stores."

Barbeque. True BBQ is a slow cooking process that involves smoking meat over an indirect fire.   Cooking over coals is grilling. BBQ is a regional favorite in the Southern U.S., and as Jack pointed out there are other regional styles. You can find BBQ all across the U.S., but they usually follow a certain style.   In Texas, brisket is king. Kansas City has their ribs. North Carolina has pork. Some places use sauce - some tomato based, some mustard based. In North Carolina a sauce from vinegar and spice is popular. In Texas you do not use sauce, just a "rub" which is dry spices. The "fixins" are also popular.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:31 PM

In Georgia, Barbeque restaurants have pulled pork, Beef ribs, spare ribs and chicken. with 4 different "heats" of mustard sauce.

KC, it mostly beef and pork ribs.

Cincinati is a big pork town.

Canadian BBQ is usually a variation on the KC and Texas style, red sauce or rubbed spices or marinated meat. The recipes are probably from the US but the food is good!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:32 PM

I completely agree with the comment above;

"The idea of tourism is to enjoy what the new country has to offer, not to piss and moan about what is better about your home."

I lived in the States for a year and am heading back in a couple of weeks for a holiday - I always try new things out there and try and embrace the local cuisine... While the beer is completely different to that of the UK, it's twice as cheap, and that fact should be celebrated!!

Two points though, tea and Indian food aren't very good in the US compared to the UK.

You're right about my idea of BBQ food... I've only ever had the fast food stuff and now I'm vegetarian, it's unlikely I'll have the proper slow cooked stuff.

Off topic slightly, but what type of food would you recommend me eat in Toronto?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:37 PM

I don't live near Toronto anymore but if it hasn't changed too much, For a vegitarian, I'd go either Indian, Carribean, or Southeast Asian. There was a place called "the bamboo" on Queen street that had fantastic pad thai. I loved the Jamacian food when I was there and there is a huge South Asian community.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:39 PM

If you want to live like the natives, you can't go wrong with a Tim Hortons Doughnut and a cup of fresh "double double" (2 cream 2 sugar they put it in for you.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:41 PM

They both sound great. I'll be sure to check out the Pad Thai... with the doughnuts and coffee for afterwards!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:42 PM

You are right about the Indian food DG, it has yet to catch on in a big way over here. Curry is no where near as popular over here as it is in the UK.   

As for beer, you are right - the big name brewers are cheap and it is nothing to write home about.   Check out the microbrews and brewpubs. You will find different styles and very flavorful brews.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:50 PM

IceHouse is a very good beer for the money. A little drier than most US brews. Is as good as any massed produced beer here and its only 12.97 for 24 cans. Its what I usually drink.

DG
If you are looking for a good beer in Canada check out Creemore Springs (Carol's favorite) and Sleeman's Cream Ale (My favorite) they are crafted in relatively small batches in Ontario breweries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:52 PM

The Indian food is good in Toronto, a few hundred thousand South Asians tend to make the curry restaurants work hard for the business.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: bobad
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 04:13 PM

Sleeman has just put out an India Pale Ale which is worth a taste, even better than their Cream Ale IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 05:09 PM

I really like the Honey Brown too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 2!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 05:15 PM

Pedantic quibble: Why is this thread headed as "part 1", when in fact it is "part 2"?

(See here for the real "part 1")


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 06:29 PM

No, accept the fact that fish and chips sucks.

Meat in england is made from rodents.

Beer is for idiot drunks for the most part and there were plenty on the streets.

Whine all you want, but my true observation was that most restaurant food that I tried in London was fairly crappy.

Except the Coca-cola was great, being the American icon that it is.

but your subway is nice, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 06:42 PM

When I was in Chicago a few years ago I had deep dish pizza, a hotdog and chips under the el, corned beef and cabbage at an Irish pub. Chicago was a wonderful experience, almost as nice as London.

The opinion that you don't like the one order of fish and chips you had a pub has been noted.

The English do sometimes eat rabbits and hares which are technically not rodents, but the beef comes from cattle the mutton comes from sheep and the fish comes from fish.

Beer is wonderful and if you just have a couple, you don't get drunk.

If you go to London again, why don't you try being nice to people? Maybe then they'll tell you where the good restaurants are and the cooks won't spit in your food.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: bobad
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 06:53 PM

You are correct in that JtS.

Lagomorphs (loģ o-moŕ fs)(Gr. lagos, hare: + morphē, form) differ from rodents in that:

    * they have four (not two as in rodents) incisors in the upper jaw;
    * they will only eat vegetation (unlike rodents, who will eat meat and vegetation)
    * the male's scrotum is in front of the penis;
    * the penis has no bone (baculum) as does the rodents'; and
    * they will re-digest first time feces (called cecotropes) to obtain the most from their plant diet.

They resemble rodents, however, in that their teeth grow throughout their life, thus necessitating constant chewing to keep them from growing too long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagomorph


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 06:57 PM

"* the male's scrotum is in front of the penis;"

Then how are they so prolific? Doesn't it get in the way? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:50 AM

In Georgia, Barbeque restaurants have pulled pork, Beef ribs, spare ribs and chicken. with 4 different "heats" of mustard sauce.

The things you Americans do and eat. Here in the UK "pull" is common slang for "meeting a member of the opposite sex" generally with some success, one way or another). So one could "go out on the pull" or "pull a bloke", We´d certainly never use it in conjunction with "pork"!!. Except maybe the odd farmer, but sheep are generally more compliant.

It seems in America you eat the ribs. We prefer to stick to the meaty bits not the bones. Is this where Martin is going wrong?

If you have already eaten the beef ribs how come there are some that are spare?

And is the chicken not tasty enough on its own?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:24 AM

"No, accept the fact that fish and chips sucks.

Meat in england is made from rodents.

Beer is for idiot drunks for the most part and there were plenty on the streets.

Whine all you want, but my true observation was that most restaurant food that I tried in London was fairly crappy.

Except the Coca-cola was great, being the American icon that it is.

but your subway is nice, too."

Posts like this make me lose faith in people!
As an American, the only positive things you can comment about London are coca-cola and the subway! By the subway, I hope you mean the London Underground and NOT the fast-food sandwich place.

Beer is only for drunks! That's like saying food is just for fat people. Get a grip!

I'm sure with sober reflection, you can find some positives about your trip over here. I understand that the level of customer service in the UK may not be the level it is in the US, but this doesn't mean that everything is worse!
I've got quite a few American friends and have never known any of them to have such a closed-minded attitude when travelling abroad, perhaps its an age thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:35 AM

FolkieDave,

It just means the meat is pulled appart to make it more tender. And that's not the official name, just my description.

I'm sure in the UK when you want a rib plate you say I'll have "The meaty bist between the bones of ribs which is eaten alonf with the bones themselves which I can use for handles." But in Georgia they just say "Bring me a plate of ribs." and assume that the waiter knows the rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: folk1e
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:29 AM

"No, accept the fact that fish and chips sucks.
Not so sure about that, but a few years ago I paddled up (and back down) Windermere and had some chips that were so good I could have sucked them!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: folk1e
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:32 AM

MG, I know this may sound strange, but have you ever heard of Karma?
If not then there is a TV show (Call Me Earl) that should give the general idea!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 08:01 AM

No, I don't watch that trash on TV.

And Jack, I am very nice to people. People who deserve it. Others, not always. don't try to make yourself out as some pure girlie-man. You're not.

I met some nice people in London. Glad you enjoyed some great food while you were in Chicago, Jack. We also have a reputation for great music and sports.

In London, I also saw the world class museum where my son works his internship and the London Eye, which was a great way to view the city.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST,Limony
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 08:29 AM

The London eye is a huge rip-off. It looks great, but anyone worth their salt knows that the best views of London can be found from Primrose Hill for free!

The best fish and chips I've ever had were from a chippy in Stoke on Trent called 'Ye Olde Chippy' - they were incredible. Mushy peas and everything. Fantastic. Anyone else ever been there?

Perhaps it is right that fish & chips are better up north.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: jacqui.c
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 08:36 AM

London really isn't representative of England. It is now a very cosmopolitan city with a very diverse population. I was born and brought up in and around London but would not now live there.

Unfortunately, because of its popularity as a tourist attraction it has become very expensive and the food, on the whole, is not of the best, unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money and then you will be unlikely to get a meal that is representative of English cuisine. (OK - that can be considered to be an oxymoron!). Alot of the cheaper places know that they have a fairly transient clientelle and so do not seem to see the need to produce anything more than a passable meal. They also tend to cater for large numbers and it is difficult to really produce quality with quantity for the prices they charge. The UK as a whole is an expensive place to be in!

Fish and chips, one of the original finger foods, is not as good as it was due to the different method used these days to cook it. I would never order this in a pub - they do not have the correct equipment to cook it properly. I have been told that Harry Ramsdens is one of the best places in the south of England to get good fish and chips but have never tried it there. Our local chippy in Hertford turned out a good meal though and, as has been said before, the choice of fish is always shown on the board in the shop.

Unfortunately a lot of Americans have only ever had cold beer and so I guess that it is difficult to get past the cultural gap that allows you to appreciate the many good ales to be found in English pubs. There are some good light beers, which have to be drunk cold to get the best from them, but, particularly in a real ale pub, some of the bitters have so much more flavour! My son ran a pub at one time - even got a cask marque from CAMRA for the quality of his beers, and I was able to sample the various guest ales he would get in. I'm not a beer drinker but could appreciate the flavours nevertheless.

There are, at certain times in large towns and cities, too many drunks rolling out of the pubs. Fact of life I'm afraid, but not just in England. There have been complaints even here in Maine of young people getting almost paraletic by closing time in the major city in the state. Seems to be a fact of life these days.

Just as elsewhere you get waht you pay for (only you always pay more in the UK due to the high cost of living). If you pay more for meat you will get better quality. Martin - did you try a real English delicacy - steak and kidney pudding - made with a suet crust, not the crap they sell in take-aways? I served that up to my American husband, family and friends and, although there was a certain reluctance to try it, once they had tasted it I was told that I would have to make it again, they enjoyed it so much.

I love the London Eye - been up in it three times so far, once at night, which was a real experience. What else did you get to see? That part of London holds so may tourist attractions that it would be difficult to see much in a short time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 08:45 AM

That's a shame - back to normal service I see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:41 AM

Glad you liked the museum, whichever one it may be. You're right London has marvellous museums and galleries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:53 AM

Personally, I think everyplace in the world has it's positives and negatives, it just depends on each individual's preferences. I'm enjoying the thread and reading about the differences between here and where Martin visited.

I find it funny how some are jumping up and down screaming about how MG has stereo-typed things and then turn around to say that the main dish in the US is hotdogs, grits and okra...just adding to the stereotyping.

I lived in Europe for a time and sure, there are definately differences and I found that to make my stay much more interesting. It also made me thankful for the simple things I missed when I returned back in the US.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:12 PM

I find it funny how some are jumping up and down screaming about how MG has stereo-typed things and then turn around to say that the main dish in the US is hotdogs, grits and okra...just adding to the stereotyping.

I haven't seen any of that, particularly the jumping or the screaming.

When I was in Yorkshire I had a local dish, Yorkshire pudding. I do the same when visiting, Chicago, Atlanta or wherever. I can get regular meat and potatoes at home. When I travel I don't look for the things that are the same so that I can compare that to home and complain where the place I'm visiting falls short. I look for the things that are different so that I can learn something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:20 PM

"If you want the good stuff, you have to get it from the micro-breweries."

Basically the same in England. With the exception of Guinness, the very best beers are almost exclusively from the smaller, independent, breweries, many of them still family owned.

Fish and Chips from a pub? Strictly a no-no! Hardly any pubs have deep fryers, which are essential to good F & C.

London, where I was born and grew up, is certainly not representative of the best in cuisine, nor is it representative of the best in culture or hospitality. I suspect it shares that failing with many other large cities all over the world.

What the package tourist never seems to be told is that "England" (the real McCoy) starts about twenty miles out of the centre of London, in the direction of your choice.

If you stay within the London area, you will see some magnificent buildings, and can learn a great deal about English history, but you will know little more about "England" than you did before.

Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip, Martin, but judging by your sour comments, I doubt it. Maybe Chicago is the best place for you.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:39 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: yrlancslad - PM
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:17 PM

Yanks who visit (a small part of) London and then proceed to tell us about what the UK is like really piss me off. Plus denigrating the food from somebody whose national dish is the Frnkfurter is really rich!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: yrlancslad - PM
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:21 PM

Not to mention grits and okra!


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:15 PM

Generally speaking the best food tends to be food brought in by immigrant communities. I suppose in the USA that would mean all the food, apart from that of the Native Americans. With that kind of range there must be some pretty good food there.

But I can't imagine seeing food as the main thing about any visit to a foreign countrty, That would apply to England more than some place, but the same would be true of some other fascinating parts of the world where people probably tend to think of food as fuel to get you by, while you enjoy yourself in other ways; for example the Netherlands and the Czech Republic. Interestingly enough, three places where the beer can be outstanding.

And no, you don't need to stick to the micro-breweries to get good beer in England, though there are a lot of them now making great beer. Nothing wrong with a number of medium and small breweries, such as Adnams and Ridleys and a fair number more. Not as many as there were one time, but that's how it goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:35 PM

Not much in the way of grits and okra in my neck of the woods—Pacific Northwest—Seattle, to be exact. Considering the variety of restaurants around here, or specialty food stores, I suppose you could find them—if you really wanted to. I didn't encounter grits and okra until I took a trip to Denver (which is hardly the Deep South, but the place where I was staying had to cater to a lot of people from down that-a-way). Grits: tasted like a cross between Cream of Wheat and boiled mothballs. Okra: looked like green garden slugs swimming in a bowl of slime. [URP!!] Okra is best as an ingredient in something else. I do like barbeque, but I can't say I'm all that wild about it, given the wide variety of cuisine that's available here.

And, no, I don't think the frankfurter is the American national food. Isn't Frankfurt in Germany? I do believe so. And "weiner" or "weenie" is a sort of anglicized corruption for Vienna sausage (for the geographically bewildered, Vienna is in Austria). Hardly the American national food.

I don't know if you could nail down an "American national food." Within ten minutes' walk (or in my case, roll), I can come upon a couple of standard meat-and-potatoes "family food" restaurants, a couple of very good seafood restaurants (Seattle is a great place if you like seafood—all kinds of seafood!), Thai, Indian, Mexican, Chinese (real Chinese, not just chop suey joints), Vietnamese, Japanese, Italian (not counting about four Pizza emporia), Ethiopian, a whole variety of fast-food joints like McDonald's, Jack-in-the-Box, Burger King, Dick's Drive-In, Spud Fish & Chips (very good, by the way), Taco Bell, Subway, a couple of delis, places where you can get gyros and wraps, and a really good Greek restaurant. Starbucks everywhere!! We also have a couple of Trader Joe's food markets close by, and if you can't find it there, it probably isn't edible. And TJ's sells some outrageously good wines! I could add more to the list, but I'm getting hungry, so I'm gonna go raid the fridge.

Oh, by the way, there is a Frankfurter (franchise) cart nearby (any kind of hot-dog thingy you could want, including Chicago red-hots, which I am told by someone who knows—she lives in Chicago and was visiting—says measure up quite well to those at home).

There is also a boozatorium or three close by where one can get standard American mouse pee should one lack taste buds, but they tend to specialize in local—and "imported"—microbrews. I'm rather partial to dark ales, myself. Some folks (mostly normal people) drink beer for flavor and conviviality, not just to "get drunk," which is decidedly immature.

I think most major cities in the U. S. and A. probably offer pretty much the same variety of fare. And I would imagine that London does too. Provided one actually wants to find out what's really there rather than just piss, moan, and complain and brag about how great the swill is back home.

Don't let my talk about the great eateries around Seattle encourage you to come here, Marty. There are some real downsides. You'll have to stay in either a log cabin or an igloo, it rains twenty-six hours a day, we all have webbed feet, and you can't be here for more that an hour or two before moss starts growing on your north side. Fungus everywhere! You can tell people whose families have been here for a few generations because they begin to look like the Gill Man (for example, here's a shot of me pursuing one of my many hobbies).

No, you don't want to come here, Marty. You really won't like it. No! Definitely not!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 08:12 PM

Don - Just curious. There used to be the greatest restaurant in West Seattle called Skippers. No, I don't mean the fish and chips joint, I mean a little restaurant that served five or six course meals. I still dream about it.

Can you give me an address if its still happening?


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:22 PM

Hi, dianavan,

It took a bit of googling to machete my way through a jungle of chain restaurant Skippers, but I finally managed to score. Unfortunately, I came up with THIS melancholy item. Looks like it's no longer in existence. Sorry.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:27 PM

Too, bad!

That was the best food I have ever tasted and I don't even remember what I ate. I know there were plenty of appetizers because we always had to tell us ourselves to 'slow down' and save room for the main entree. The food was always cooked to perfection and the service was excellent. It was actually the living room of a small house and the tables were small and close together (just like in France). Going for dinner was an event that lasted for hours but you usually had to wait in line to get in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 02:02 PM

re: Indian Food. The Jackson Diner in Jackson Heights, NY (about ten minutes from La Guardia Airport) has authentic Indian food that is nothing short of heaven.

The place is always filled with Indian families from different regions. It is fascinating to see the cultural differences.

Mention the Jackson Diner or Jackson Heights in any Indian restaurant in the States and you are going to hear "My brother (cousin, sister-in-law, etc) lives there/works there/owns it. They will prepare food "off the menu" if you don't see what you want.

It is the only thing I miss about NYC.


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Mudcat time: 27 October 6:03 PM EDT

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