eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?

Subject: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:12 AM

Not having a computer(i use cabletv internet) I havent got the technology for this downloading music and listening to stuff online. Now, I'm contunually being told that CDs are finished, everyone is downloading now. What do people think? I'm very unknowledgable, so I'd kind of like to know how it works, and wheter it suits peope or not.
   For the first time a record of mine ("A Trip to the Lakes" by the BOat Band) has been put on this site called eFolkmusic by our record company, so I'm very intrigued to know about this new technology.
Has anybody ever tried eFolkmusic?How much do you pay? How do you pay? When you've done it, how do you listen? Now the technology is available, have you switched away from CD buying to downloading?
   Do tell, I find it all very interesting.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:46 AM

Commercial cd's provide a permanent record of the music at the expense of having songs on them that you may not like. On line down loads are usually one song at a time but you save them to your hard drive or (if possible) burn them to a cd. To me, it's a matter of what you feel the most comfortable and secure with. But nothing beats the used cd bins in price.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 08:38 AM

I decided to try it. Signing up seemed to go smoothly, and I listened to a cut by a featured group, Kiltartan.

I searched for the Boat Band and got a list of the following cuts:
--------
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Air - A Trip to Galloway MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Cumberland Square Eight Tunes - My Love is but a Lassie Yet/Whitehaven Volunteers/Through the Wood Spinning MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Cumberland Waltz/Kendal Waltz MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Hornpipes - Keswick Bonny Lasses/Stables'Grand Hornpipe MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Hornpipes - Stybarrow Crag/Iron Legs/The Calgarth MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Jig - A Trip to the Lakes MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Jigs - Cumberland Reel/Carlisle Races MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Jigs - Kendal Ghyll/When I parted/Ulverston Volunteers MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Polkas - Carlisle Reel/Haul Away the Hawser/Trip to Cartmel MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Polkas - Dear Tobacco/Bonny Cumberland/King's Polka No. 1/King's Polka No. 2 MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Reels - Robinson's/The Honeymoon/A bonny Lass to Marry Me/The Cumberland MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Song - Corby Castle MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Song - The Birds Upon the Trees MP3
Traditional Folk The Boat Band   Trip to the Lakes CD
Traditional Folk The Boat Band    Westmorland Waltz MP3
------------
I saw that it is 98 cents to download a cut, but I didn't actually download anything.

I didn't find a way to listen to the Boat Band tunes. I found that disappointing. Maybe someone here knows a way around that.

Best of luck with your music.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:24 AM

Well, I thought on a site like that there were meant to be a couple of free tracks to download so that you get the idea. Is that not the case? Seems odd to me.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: GUEST,Elfcall
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:31 AM

Just tried this site for the first time.

Found a free download 'Jig- A trip to the lakes' - could not try it here at work - (Firewall settings)and a gig list from June onwards.

Seems to be what you think Greg.

Elfcall

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:34 AM

Yes, most artists usually have a few free tracks available for download and then you can purchase other tracks. Efolkmusic.com also offers standard CD's for purchase.

Leenia, I am not sure why you aren't able to listen to the MP3's. It sounds like you need a player, but most PC's should have either a Windows Media Player, Real Player or some other player.   You can do an internet search for the sites for each and download for free.

I've tried efolkmusic.com and I am very impressed with the offerings. The site continues to grow and they also offer other resources and links that can be valuable to fans. It is very easy to use.

I do think the day of the CD is numbered, but it probably will be around for awhile - at least 5 to 10 years. The proliferation of devices like iPod are changing the way people listen and save music.   While most of us grew up in a generation that had LP's and eventually CD's, future generations will be saving the clutter and resources. These devices will have the ability to download liner notes and other associated material that will do away with the need for liner notes, booklets and such. It will be interesting to watch!

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:02 AM

Ron: you mention the ability to download liner notes. I am not sure that that is a facility available with my CD on eFolkmusic: I hope so, because in this case at least I regard the liner notes as an integral part of the recorrd. It is the dismembering of a record into individual components that I find a bit distasteful to me, when I kind of hoped I had created a satisfying whole: but I suppose this is something I will have to learn to live with.
   Anyway, if people download linernotes, how do they read them? If they are sitting at a computer it is easy enough, but people nowadays seem to be listening to music a lot that comes out of little teensy things hung round their necks. Are those the ipods I keep hearing about? And if so, I cant imagine you can read liner notes on them. Or is there a little screen like a mobile phone?

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:12 AM

Hi Greg,

Sorry, I don't think I was being clear. Currently there are no liner notes being downloaded, but the technology is there. When the time comes that CDs are made obsolete, this information will be available. Right now, MP3 tracks have title and artist information tied into the file. This additional metadata will also be tied into the file and will pop up on the individuals player - when the time is right.

I do agree with you about constructing "albums" as a whole recording. Listening to albums from first cut to last gives an idea of the concept the artist was striving for.   Unfortunately, this will probably be largely ignored in the future.   Of course, when you think about it, the idea of "albums" was really unheard of until the 1950's when LP's became prevelant.   It will be interesting to see what the future holds - we may be heading back to the time when "singles" were the norm!

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: bobad
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:12 AM

Not having listened to many mp3 recordings I am curious to know if there is a significant loss of fidelity due to the file compression of the mp3 format.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:14 AM

It depends on how the MP3 was created. The bitrate that was used to compress the song will make a difference - at its highest it will be very difficult for the average listener to notice any difference.   ALL compression will have some sort of loss, just like when the CD is created.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: MMario
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:17 AM

bobad - there *can* be. If properly done, (according to the audio list I audit) there is no "significant" loss - tho' admittedly 'significant' is different to different people.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:23 AM

I was told by the record company that what people downloaded would be indistiguishable from what you get on the CD, as far as I can recall.
Ron Olesko: you are quite right that "the album" is a very recent concept. It will be a pity to see it go, if it does, but everything changes. A bit like Classic FM, a British radio station that specialises in transmitting the "good tune" bits of classical music, without the filler in between!

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 03:36 PM

Only the most fanatical audiophiles will tell you there's an appreciable difference between a reasonable compressed file and a CD playback (then again, the quality of the playback hardware makes a difference too). And with bandwidth and local storage space getting cheaper by the second, high (very lossy) compression rates are no longer necessary.

I don't see why the notion of publishing a related group of songs together (related even by nothing more than some compiler's whim) should go away. The "album" after all has been around over 50 years (I'd be glad to think of that as "very recent" but it isn't, really, in recorded-music terms) - it started life as a collection of discs published together in a "book" (like a photo album, hence the term I reckon), related by artist/editor/A&R whim, or some external relationship like source (South Pacific, or Oklahoma or some other show or movie etc.) No doubt our notions of relationship among artefacts of intellectual property will evolve (as they've been doing all along) but I don't think we're in danger of "losing" anything.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:29 PM

Buck, the reason I think that "albums" will go away is because of the way music files are treated. You can download entire albums or single songs, but the technology gives the user the opportunity to construct a playlist in the order they wish.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:59 PM

I agree that "something will change" but in terms of how recorded music is "published" I don't see a complete reversion to "singles" do you? I think there'll be some kind of relational notion surviving to "bind" collections. Maybe there'll be a revival of the "concept" I dunno. Or you may be right, but I don't see the "powers that be" investing the promotional whizbangs on a track-by-track basis; I think some "collectional notion" will persist. But maybe not for indies. It's pretty exciting, what's happened to the recording & distribution of music over the past 10 years. My kid's band has been together since high school, have recorded & distributed a couple of CDs and pressed an LP (same material as one of the CDs). All on their own, no real adult intervention. Now if they'd only listen when I tell 'em "it's supposed to MAKE money, not COST money...."

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:20 PM

And that Buck is the problem. When a buck can't be made why make music? (except for fun of course). And when everyone can make it, who filters it out so that the true geniuses can be heard?

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:33 PM

Buddy Tabor of Juneau, Alaska, has an album or two on efolkmusic. (Mr. Basketball Shoes is there for the listening) I don't know if or what he pays for the promotion; I'll have to ask him.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:15 PM

Buck, I do see your points and agree with you to an extent. Record labels exist to make money and whatever form they take in the future will have the same goal. The "problem" is that we are using current models to imagine what the future will hold.

Based on trends and technology I think the creation and distribution of music will be radically different. The way things seem to be heading, people will be able to call up a song or a particular artist and purchase what they want. Unless there is an economical break, why pay for a whole album if you are only interested in one song? I would bet most of us have numerous CD's where we only care about a couple of cuts. The distributors of recordings in the future will need to figure out a way to market their "product". If it appears that artists will be making more sales from single songs, the record labels will figure out a way to make money that way.

Again, this is just my opinion based on the changes that I am seeing. I am sure that no matter what changes occur, the technology should be enabling not prohibitive. Artists will have more creative freedom once they can make the technology work for them.   Making music solely for money should not be the goal but rather to celebrate the music.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:20 PM

Ron: the maney v art is unrealistic as far as I can. most muscians I now are desperately serious about their music, and also(quite reasonably) keen to pay the electricity bill. There may be conflicts, of course.
But will the new technology be enabling? I am just starting to flirt with it. i dont believe I have even sold a track on eFolk yet, my stuff has only just gone on. Well, we can monitor this in real time, I'll find out tomorrow, if I can, from the record company.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:43 PM

I'm with you Greg about money vs. art!   Good luck!

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:57 PM

My tongue was in my cheek (mostly) with the make vs. cost remark - however, when the kids start going on multi-week, multi-state tours, it gets to be an expensive pursuit if the gigs aren't bringing in at least gas money.

Ron, I totally agree with your "we have no idea what it's going to look like" comment; quite true.

Greg, the new technology is already enabling - especially when it comes to kids who don't have our generation's "bad habits" of thinking about who & how to get stuff recorded and "out there."

Guest wordy, I don't quite get your point? We make music because we don't know how NOT to make it. What we're talking about is sharing it, first & foremost, getting paid for it secondarily (or at least getting it to pay for itself), and filtering out nowhere. Everyone does their own filtering, and the more stuff that's available through more sources, the better are the odds that worthwhile stuff won't fall by the wayside. I think.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:11 AM

Interesting, I just checked out what is on eFolk. My own CD has been on it for three days now(I think). Nobody has bought a track, or a CD(you can buy CDs in the ordinary way too), but 36 people have examined the site. And possibly listened to freebies, I'm not sure. I will await futher developments.
    On the "death of albums" discussion: I dont know what to think. It's a bit odd that something you've made as a whole is being cut into slices and sold. Still, if it can happen to a salami, I suppose it can happen to Boat Band records.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: Jon W.
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:52 AM

I've been listening to albums for 40 years and with the exception of some Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, one side of Chicago's second album, and "Sgt Pepper's.." very few of them have any continuity that is apparent. The artist might think they do but it's not apparent to the listener. I do (or used to) get used to the order of the songs but I don't think that was anything more than the constraints of LP technology. Later when CD's came in, I tried the "Random Play" feature and found that it frequently would result in the same cut being played three times in a row, which was very annoying. The same programming blunder has been propogated to the MP3 player (at least the one I own). I'd like to talk to the programmer, it would have been so simple to eliminate that problem. But I digress. The point is, Greg, don't worry about your album being cut up into pieces and sold that way - even if it wasn't sold that way, the customer would cut it up anyway.

One other thing, though - I frequently had the experience, back when you just put an LP on the turntable and listened from front to back, of growing to appreciate a song that at first hearing I didn't like. In fact, such songs often became for me my favorite song from the album. Why? As my mother would have said, I "learned to like it." Maybe it is because for a song to be immediately liked, it must be shallow and superficial, and anything deeper you just don't "get" right off. Wait...are we talking about songs here or people? I'll shut up now.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 04:36 PM

Jon W: I certainly hope you'd spot some continuity if you listened to "A Trip to the Lakes" in the order it appears on the CD, preferably while reading the liner notes and drinking a few glasses of Jennings Cumberland Ale or something similar.
    Go on, download it at eFolk( I rather think you can get the liner notes as well there, or if not they are on the Harbourtown records website). Give it a try, you know it makes sense.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 08:47 PM

Today I asked Buddy Tabor about the financial arrangements between efolkmusic and the artists. He said they get a cut of each CD that sells but there is no payment as such.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 02:43 AM

I dont follow you, Ebbie. As I understand it, the artist gets a cut. But that sounds like payment to me.

Subject: RE: eFolkmusic/downloading: r u experienced?
From: Teresa
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:17 AM

I hadn't heard of either the Boat band or Efolkmusic, so now I have yet another thing to explore.

Several months ago, I got a gift of a portable external 160-GB hard drive. I've been buying music online and ripping my own cDs, and now I have a library of approximately 2000 tracks, mostly mP3s, that only takes up a tenth of it. MP3s, or any compression format, take up much less space than conventional audio-cD data. An MP3 cD will hold 80 songs. I also have a portable MP3 cD player, and I will often put a bunch of my files on it. Voila! instant jukebox.

Being a child of the album and cD generation, I tend to buy an entire one rather than individual tracks. Many download sites offer discounts if you buy an album versus the single tracks.

Good luck with the music.

Teresa