BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America

Subject: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:36 PM

This story is not the first example in which public dissent, once an honored freedom, is now met with organized oppression. In this case, a youth band wearing "inappropriate" tee shirts. Remember when the Keystone Cops gave Cindy Sheehan the bum's rush because she was wearing a shirt they disapproved of?
This is not 'keeping public order'. There was no disorder. Just a statement which some twisted mall managerette couldn't handle.

I suspect there are lots of stories ike this one out there. Recall what happened to the Dixie Chicks when they opened their mouths? Oh, and "Free Speech Zones" where dissenters are corraled out of sight so their "free" speech becomes meaningless?

As a people, we are becoming seriously lax about the defense of freedom.

What's worse, we are becoming seriously nutsoid about reducing it in reactionary ways.

Here's a thread to those who speak out, and get hit in the chops for it, in the home of the brave.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:54 PM

American "democracy" is exposing itself for the sham it's been ever since the founding fathers were in their graves. It's about money and power, and damn the common good.

Home of the brave? Not since the last indigenous American was robbed of his land.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:22 AM

Here's something we CAN do: call the "manager" listed on Tower City's website and tell her what you think:


Karen Russell, Manager
Phone Number        

[phone]

Thanks for the heads-up, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:30 AM

They were being paid for their performance. The management have their rights also. Protest all you want, just don't expect me to automatically be a part of it through my patronage at the mall.

Was at a 5 act music benefit recently where the band leader (same city) did a anti-bush tirade at the end of their. The crowd had to be well over half left-leaning but the hush that fell over the crownd also resulted in him not selling one CD.

The average intelligent audience does not want political reflections cast on their entertainment.

Rent a hall or find a street corner and protest all you want. That allows choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: John Hardly
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:36 AM

"Bushites"?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:36 AM

....meant to comment on the Dixie Chicks. Amos, what is your problem with that scenario. They had their day in the Sun, on stage and no one stopped them. It was their gig and no one did one thing to prevent their 'freedom of speech'. Why are you suggesting that those who found disfavor with the Chicks actions; stopped buying CDs, many stations and DJs stopped playing their stuff, should have their 'freedom of speech' disallowed.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:55 AM

Cubs
On deck: Pirates at Cubs

May 1, 2006


Tonight: 7:05, Comcast SportsNet, 720-AM. Victor Santos (1-4, 6.48 ERA) vs. Sean Marshall (2-0, 4.22).

Tuesday: 1:20 p.m., Ch. 9, 720-AM. Zach Duke (1-2, 4.50) vs. Angel Guzman (0-0, 5.40).

The story line: The Cubs need to dominate the lowly Pirates before beginning a nine-game trip to Arizona, San Diego and San Francisco. The Cubs won two of three in Pittsburgh on April 14-16, but Duke beat them 2-1. Marshall and Santos also hooked up in that series, with Marshall an 11-6 winner. Guzman has to show more control of the strike zone in his second big-league start.

Mike Kiley

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:57 AM

United 93 (R)
History written in the moment
It is not too soon for "United 93," because it is not a film that knows any time has passed since 9/11. The entire story, every detail, is told in the present tense. We know what they know when they know it, and nothing else. Nothing about Al Qaeda, nothing about Osama bin Laden, nothing about Afghanistan or Iraq, only events as they unfold. This is a masterful and heartbreaking film, and it does honor to the memory of the victims.

RV (PG)

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:59 AM

Subject: RE: Springsteen - The Seeger Sessions
From: Martin Gibson - PM
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:30 PM

I agree with you, Ron.

These are really folk songs that the Boss is doing.

I am glad they are not being done so authentic and traditional.

getting these songs out in front of people again even if they do sound over-produced to the purists is much more meaningful than trying to get them out there in a style (such as braying and warbling) that will end up turning off people to thse fine songs.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:35 AM

Seems to me the worst aspect of the American national character surfaced during the Dixies' flap, when someone actually burned their CDs. If politics and music are independent items, then how come burning music is an appropriate response to a political statement?

The lizard brains didn't really do much harm, I guess, anymore than Martin is doing here with his subtle finesse.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Donuel
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:13 AM

When W and staff go on the road and have to stay in a hotel the standing rule they impose on the hotel is that all publicly visible TV screens (lobby etc.) must show FOX news network.

When Air Force 1 carries any reporters it is reported that only one TV show is ever broadcast. Can you guess what it is?

When speaking at college graduating ceremonies the standing order is that the University must first agree to EXPEL any student caught protesting against Bush at the event and never allow said student to graduate.

This regieme only needs to silence between 5 and 15% of protesters as well as any mention of the protest to be able to create an appearence of normalcy. This number game is similar to needing only a 30% approval rating to win the election since over one third of the people don;t vote and even if they did all one need do is disenfranchise or lose 5 to 15% of votes suspected of being oppositional.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:19 AM

"When speaking at college graduating ceremonies the standing order is that the University must first agree to EXPEL any student caught protesting against Bush at the event and never allow said student to graduate."

I find that one a little hard to believe. I'd want to see some links or a story on that one first Donual. The rest of it I can believe though.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,G
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:20 PM

Agreed, Wesley S. I went to 4 Graduations this year and saw various forms of protest; war, the entire government, etc. Orderly and no one booted out.

Amos, "If music and politics are indenpendent items......." , the Dixie Chicks did not have that view, so the opposing action was perhaps justified, eh?

What is good for the Goose is good........so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,G
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:24 PM

......."the lizard brains" did do some harm to their own careers.

(you were referring to the chicks?)

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 May 06 - 01:26 PM

By the way Guest G - I think what Donual is trying to say is that when the President is speaking at a University that these actions/expulsions will occur.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: kendall
Date: 01 May 06 - 01:35 PM

People don't want politic mixed in with entertainment?
You'd never know it at a Utah Phillips performance.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 May 06 - 01:56 PM

And yet.........

Cards on the table I don't like George Bush. i didn't like him when he was signing death warrants with alacrity and apparent enthusiasm. When I heard his election campaigns had been paid for by the armaments industry. I thought you would be at war before too long.

And yet......

it is a time of war. other young men are putting their lives on the line to carry out the orders of your elected leaders.

both wars seemed an understandable reaction to 9/11. to an awful lot of people it seemed that there had to be some payback for pissing about with America.

and its traditional to express loyalty to a war leader.

Lessons learned

if you really think its worthwhile to protest. make it a meaningful, thoughtful, dignified protest - not a bloody tee shirt.
Start putting together the organisation that will ensure neither party picks someone like this again.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 06 - 02:48 PM

and its traditional to express loyalty to a war leader.

There comes a time when that is no longer in the best interests of the country and its people; indeed the world and its people. Now is such a time.

if you really think its worthwhile to protest. make it a meaningful, thoughtful, dignified protest

If we'd done it that way before we could still be in Viet Nam, wld.

There are plenty of orgs. which are carrying out protests which ARE thoughtful and meaningful; "dignified" is subjective. Many people have lost their dignity in lives of poverty, constant violence, and poor conditions because of this administration.

Kendall, THANKS! It seemed so obvious!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:05 PM

Ahy do we have another amos Bush thread?

He has one giant one already.

This thread should be closed or combined with his other anti-Bush thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:06 PM

Cubs
On deck: Pirates at Cubs

May 1, 2006


Tonight: 7:05, Comcast SportsNet, 720-AM. Victor Santos (1-4, 6.48 ERA) vs. Sean Marshall (2-0, 4.22).

Tuesday: 1:20 p.m., Ch. 9, 720-AM. Zach Duke (1-2, 4.50) vs. Angel Guzman (0-0, 5.40).

The story line: The Cubs need to dominate the lowly Pirates before beginning a nine-game trip to Arizona, San Diego and San Francisco. The Cubs won two of three in Pittsburgh on April 14-16, but Duke beat them 2-1. Marshall and Santos also hooked up in that series, with Marshall an 11-6 winner. Guzman has to show more control of the strike zone in his second big-league start.

Mike Kiley

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:06 PM

why do we have another amos Bush thread?

He has one giant one already.

This thread should be closed or combined with his other anti-Bush thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 06 - 04:07 PM

(Sigh)

Nattering nabobs of nondiscrimination, this is not a thread about Popular Views of the Bush Administration.

This is a different thread. It is on a different subject, about a cultural degradation which is occurring widely and which undermines the vitality and flexibility and inherent strength of this country, and to which reactionary oppressors of open communication, like yourselves, are contributing by shouting for the suppression of dialogue.

To be able to see differences between things which are different is to gain new insight into the real and present world. Try it sometime.
It beats stuck pictures and Being Right at All Costs any day of the week.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 May 06 - 04:12 PM

Amos - I doubt there will ever come a day when young rock bands will stop wearing T-shirts protesting something/anything. And if that ever happens we can say goodbye to freedom of speech. If the supporters of "Shrub" ever try to supress all of the dissent they will have their work cut out for them. If they were smart - and they're not - they would just ignore them and pretend everything is peachy keen.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,G
Date: 01 May 06 - 04:18 PM

Amos, I could not agree more with regard to "gaining new insight".

More than 90% of yours come the same sources; Slate, BBC, NY Times, Washington Post, etc. Not exactly paragons of both sides of the political spectrum.

Try lectures, reading both admitted right and left wing sources while trying to maintain an objective view.....ah, never mind.......

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 May 06 - 04:20 PM

G - What sources do YOU suggest for getting the big picture ?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,G
Date: 01 May 06 - 04:35 PM

It is probably not possible to "get the big picture".

However, early every morning I read the NY Times/Post, the Washington Post/Times, whatever new stuff the Times mag might have along with US News/World Report and every Liberals favorite, National Review.

Then I try to decide what might be transpiring. NO TV news for a year now, none, and stay away from idiots like Jerry Springer on Air America and Shaun Hannity.

Just a few weeks ago, I was marveling over the dramtic increase in my ability to detect addtional flavors in food stuffs. (Increased intensity) I first gave credit to being over the pangs of a bad marriage and elongated divorce. Then, I overheard someone say that they felt better since they stopped watching network news. (also local for me) Who knows? ( Think I will go with the latter) I have yet to have anyone really tell what benefits they derive from it. Includes CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 06 - 05:54 PM

I do use Slate and the other sources you mention, mostly because they strike me as articulate and intelligent. I also read the Post, the WSJ, the Christian Science Monitor, and excerpts via Google News from all over, including some of the most rabid right-wing gibberish you could possibly imagine. I am biased toward those voices which use creative rhetoric rather than the crude and barbarian Slander Direct as a means of expressing their perspective. Friedman, Dowd and their fellows at the NY Times meet this criterion of creative communication a lot more than, say, Limbaugh or Hannidy do.

There are certain things about conservatism that I respect and appreciate, when it is practiced, but the ranting reactionary version of imperialism that is voiced by some characters in the pundit world is not of that stamp.

I prefer people who communicate thought; for example, Doug R and Bearded Bruce often make that effort.

By the way, President Bush recently said something I found genyuinely funny at the Press awards conference he went to. He said he was feeling greatly relieved, because he had survived the White House shake-up. I think this is the first time I ever laughed with him instead of at him.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 May 06 - 06:32 PM

"Slate, BBC, NY Times, Washington Post, etc" - these are regarded as left-wing? Do me a favour! The BBC has had a world-wide reputation for balanced reportage since well before the USA had any idea what "unbiased" meant. On a global scale, NYT and Washington Post come nowhere near socialist, much less left-wing.

What is "Slate"? Does it have any non-US presence?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 06 - 06:55 PM

Richard, who said those sources were left wing?

It was simply stated they were not representative of BOTH sides of the political spectrum.

Sorry if a nerve was struck. Your statement that the BBC is balanced tells a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:38 PM

Bottom line of this thread is simply "Do you value your right to free speech?" If so, discuss it and be damn glad you are able to freely do so.

Thanks, again, Amos, for starting this and for your cogent responses.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:57 PM

Do I value my right to free speech .... yup

And with that simple one word answer i have expressed by right to do so, along with everyone else who has posted to this thread, regardless of what they had to say.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:21 PM

First of all, unless I'm playin' at a protest ralley, I don't ever bring up politics in my performances... It is disrespectfull but...

with that said, hey, lets gets friggin' real here... Been to a country and western concert lately... Folks singin' about blowin' up Arabs and folks waving the flag and folks going way over-board wityh all the sappy references to patriotism and supporting the troops and bad mouthin' those "intellectuals" that the Bush's have made their family fight song for three decades now...

I mean, let's put this thing in some kinda perspective here... Progressives don't even go to these 3chord circle jerks because they know they don't need to be at these indoctrination concerts...

So when a bunch of Indie Band kids get booted for taking the opposing side, yeah, it bothers me that the washrag crybaby neocons get their way and have them pulled...

How do you spell hypocrisy anyway???

Grrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:24 PM

"Been to a country and western concert lately"

... not all of them are singin what you say they are singin Bobert.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:28 PM

Amos,

So the management of the place of performance are "Bushites", and anything they object to is "dissent".

Know I understand. The title of the thread would lead one to believe this was the action of some organized group. As an accused member of that group, I was wondering who I had suppressed recently. Perhaps you need to make your accusations a little more specific.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:50 PM

The motivation, Bruce, in this incident, was to suppress an expression of disagreement with Bush.

There's no question that wearing a teeshirt the has an interdiction symbol around the President;'s face is a form of dissent with the current administration.

However, I do not see you going around suppressing dissent, so obviously it is not the case that "any and all Bushites suppress dissent". However, the pattern of Bushites suppressing dissent has recurred often enough to make it a valid topic, imho.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:12 PM

How many of 'um you been to, sIx...

In the last year I've played at at least half a dozen "festivals", an' I've been surrounded with these folks... I've heard the songs and the talk...

I have two choices... Don't play or play... If you don't believe me, come on down to the "Festival of Spring" on Luray, Va. on May 13th where I'm booked to play...

All I can hope for is to reach a couple kids who come up to me after our performance and wanta learn more 'bout acoustic country blues which, in turn, will open their eyes to some fo the "other" politics...

But if I go rantin' on stage, I won't get future opportunities to reach a couple of kids... Meanwhile the redneck bands can say whatever they want... Yeah, they can make the jokes about the "intellectuals"... Haha... Didn't Hitler make jokes about "intellectuals", too???

I'm not gettin' on you, sIx, 'cause yer a purdy cool sIx, but lets get real here...

Bobert (alias Sidewalk Bob & the Pedestrians, in case anyone is coming to Luray and don't want to miss our performance...)

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:16 PM

Amos,

The motivation, Amos, in many comments here on Mudcat, has been to suppress an expression of agreement with Bush.

BTW, where are your favorable comments about the Bush Sudan policy? Or will you ONLY point out when you disagree with Bush, and never give him credit for doing something right? And immigration?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:17 PM

bobert, some Arabs are our enemy. al quaida is, but you obviously deny that. And so what if people feel patriotic? That's what's wrong with dirtbags like you. Criticizing people who want to feel good about some things in this country and being loyal to it no matter what.

Instead of pointing fingers and criticizing people who do so.

Ever been to a blues concert? A lot of people on welfare. There, I can make generalizations also, except in my case, it's probably true.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:22 PM

Well, being a Canadian living in the Maritimes I can be honest and say I have been to none ... except for a few Bluegrass festivals and our weekly jams... that's about as close to good 'ol country I get here. Bluegrass is totally void of politics and negative shit .. which is one of the reasons I like it.

But when you stated (my interpation anyway) that country music is all about rednecks kicking Arab butt and all, I thought of Willie Nelson, Wayland jennings, The Dixies Chicks and Steve Earl.

Where's Luray Bobert?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:40 PM

It's Waylon, not Wayland, 6

And you know why that music is popular? It is because it is the way a lot of people really feel. And actually, I am quite glad that they are positive types of people instead of negative whiners like the far-left whiny bobert types. It's much easier to get through a day being positive you know. Being negative and whiny and worried usually leads to depression I would think.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:57 PM

Wayland ... I sit here corrected ... thank you MG. True about Bluegrass.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:39 PM

Well, well, well...

If anyone ever needed proff that Martin's journey to Europe would make him more enlightened, or intellegent, his above post I'd like to enter as "Exhibit A" that that sho nuff didn't happen...

Actually, sIx, if Waylon were still kickin', I don't think he'd be on the Bush bandwagon... The Dixie Chicks sho nuff ain't... Willie Nelson ain't... Maybe that's why these folks don't get a lot of play time on ClearChannelCountryRadio...

It was ClearChannel that went after the Dixie Ckickes tooth and nail and used their 1300 radio stations accross America to use the public airwaves, which we supposedly ****all**** own to slam them and the next day there were CD smashings in the streets "Clear" accross America...

Can anyone explain to me why what ClearChannel di to the Dixie Chicks is any different from what the brownshirts di in Germany 60 some years ago...

And for the record, Martin, if you are indeed a Jew and have any sense of history here, you are a lousy Jew...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:58 PM

My rabbi said I was a good Jew, bobert, so you are trumped and meaningless.

The dixie Chicks still get plenty of airplay and I am glad. they are great singers and musicians.

And bobert, Waylon did a great patriotic tribute in a song called "America." You should listen to it sometime instead of trying to put words in a dead man's mouth like a moron.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:58 PM

Opps....

Yo, sIx....

Luray is 100 miles southwest of Washington, D.C....

Grab a flight to DC (Dulles) on Friday, the 12th, I'll pick ya' up, put ya' up at the house Friday night, then Saturday you'll meet the band and hear us do outr thing, which is gonna be some hot North Mississipppi Hillstomp/Delta Blues, an' have ya back at the airport early Sunday mornin' on my way back up to Maryland to attned (horrors) an all day long garden tour with the P-Vine....

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:01 PM

Cubs just won 2-1 against Pittsburgh.

Great pitching tonight.

Is liking baseball to patriotic?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:13 PM

Well, now, Martin is absolutely right. Going through a day being positive is far better than whining and being negative. I am all for that.

'Course, being positive about destroying things is kinda weird. And being negative about insane policies is probably not, itself, negative, if you see what I mean.

But hell, that's not the situation here, is it? Hell, we got us a good boy in the saddle, the buck is up, the troubles are all in furrin places, and we got the best damn indigenous music on the planet which is full of good vibes.

So I guess, hell, things ain't so bad.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:14 PM

"Bushites Suppress Dissent in America"

Here in Mudville, we just have the usual distraction. like the ever dfistracting Martin "the distractor" Gibson with yet aother of his little mindless trickery....

This is yet another way that Bushites suppress dissent... They try trivialize it...

Won't work, Marty... Too many folks are on to you, yer games and yer guy...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:44 PM

For Christ Sakes quit your whining and move to Canada ... maybe then ya can live with a positive attitude.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: dianavan
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:58 PM

Are you inviting Martin to move to Canada?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:04 AM

Sure .... I'll invite anyone who wants to live a more positive life here ... especially in Maritime Canada. But specifically ones who grumble hourly about the suppressive government of Bush.

Hell, who in their right mind wants to live in the U.S. now.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: dianavan
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:42 AM

I think you're right six.

Canada also has big business and corruption in government but we manage to stay positive about the big picture (most of the time).

I also think that Canadians have more to be proud of.

You're right - we need to expand the gene pool and maybe we can encourage another 'brain drain'. I don't know any immigrants who have any regrets about settling in Canada.

In Vancouver, we are crying for skilled trades people. If you are in the building trades, you will have a job waiting for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: tarheel
Date: 02 May 06 - 01:10 AM

well...where is a RONALD REAGAN,when we need him?
i remember the AIR CONTROLLERS strike(or boycott) during the Reagan Adminstration days and the Greatest President of our time Fired Them all!!!
Gee,we really miss you Ronnie!
Tar...

BTW,did you notice how easy it was to TRAVEL on the roads today?
hmmmm,maybe they should stay home every day!!!
tar...

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 May 06 - 01:31 AM

Okay, can anyone think of any better way to provide exposure to the sentiments expressed on someone's tee-shirt than to publicly ban him from wearing it? Instead of a couple of thousand people seeing the shirts worn by that band, the fool who banned them has guaranteed that several million people will be exposed not only to the shirts' message, but to the extremes to which supporters of that message's target are willing to go prevent it's being seen.   

Yep, that's lizard brained thinking all right. Get angry, react instinctively, don't worry about the consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bert
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:06 AM

...Suppress Dissent in America...

It seems from all these threads about censorship on Mudcat we need to get our own house in order.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 06 - 07:42 AM

B-W-L, the point here is do it on a street corner or in a venue the band is paying for. Not a combination public/private sector.

Anti Dem or anti Repub, their actions shows bad judgement on the part of the band. To get down to a level where all can understand, one can pee in their own back yard, simply stay out of mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 May 06 - 07:59 AM

Very good comment, Bert!

Sorry, I will not be moving to Canada. Nice place, but living here is just perfect for me.

So, what do you think the Cubs will do today, gang?

What's your game, bobert? Looks like it's called whining about something every day. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 02 May 06 - 09:01 AM

No MG ... I certainly wouldn't expect you to move here ... thanks for the comment regarding Canada though ... but if you ever get to the point of jumping ship ... do consider moving here.

How about those Boston Red Sox !!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 02 May 06 - 05:12 PM

6, why would you care about the Red sox?

You still have 1 team left in Canada, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 02 May 06 - 10:13 PM

I've been a fan of the Sox since I was a kid, before any Canadian teams were around ... plus I dislike the city of Toronto. I should also note there is strong historical connection between Saint John and Boston.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 May 06 - 10:15 PM

Oh, yeah? what's the connection?

Amos and me want to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 02 May 06 - 10:25 PM

Why do you want to know?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 02 May 06 - 10:37 PM

Because Martin is in the process of highjacking yet another anti-Bush thread...

Nuhtin' more 'n nuhtin less...

Normal...

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 02 May 06 - 10:41 PM

I wonder ... know one cares the least about Saint John, let alone know it exists. Just a town lost in the fog, lost in time.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 02 May 06 - 11:12 PM

THe idea that college students wearing one or another tee-shirt constitutes "peeing in one's back yard" is simply ludicrous.

Suppress the young from voicing their thoughts and you will raise a generation of compliant and robotic citizens with a lot of anger bottled up within. It is the kind of obsessive control and intolerance I would expect of a dictator, or a wannabe dictator. A shopping mall manager? Oh, come on. Local Public Mental Hygeine Officer? Sheeeeshe!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 02 May 06 - 11:17 PM

Suppressing the young from voicing their dessent .... it's healthy, it encourages them to rebel, to question, provides incentive for them to make changes from the mistakes we made. It worked for us, for a period of time at least.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 May 06 - 08:00 AM

6, the connection between Saint John and Boston.

bobert and I want to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: number 6
Date: 03 May 06 - 12:56 PM

Why would you guys want to know?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: dianavan
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:59 PM

Saint John and Boston?

Shipbuilding?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:05 PM

Amos, we were not discussing protest by college students. All campi have areas set aside for that. The band was hired, it was not a forum for protest but for entertainment. No indicators were given regarding any form of protest which would have provided those attending a choice.

Like I said, street corners are fine, rent a hall or get an approved facility. You are entitled to your views, I am entitled to my choice on listening or not. Is that not a simple concept?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:22 PM

GUEST @ 02 May 06 - 07:42 AM,

My point was not that the venue manager was wrong in her decision, just that it was short-sighted. Yes, if the band was being paid and was under contract to them, the management had a right to call the shots. But, the manager had insufficient foresight to see that her actions were going to blow up in her face. She would have been much better off to just let the kids' shirts piss off a handful of Bush supporters than to let her own actions piss of millions of people.

If she had complaints from audience members, she should have said, "Look, if I throw these kids off stage now, pictures of them wearing those shirts will be on the front page of tomorrow morning's paper and all over the Internet a few hours later. Don't you realize that's probably exactly what they want?"

Obviously, the woman never had any children of her own.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 13 May 06 - 12:02 PM

Subject: Protester Arrested

Uppity Cleveland woman carted to psych hospital by police and ordered
to a psych unit by judge
For as long as we have had some kind of mental health system, women
who "behave incorrectly" have been ordered to undergo its treatments.
At one time or another, feminists, suffragists, menopausal women, and
women who question authority in any way have been sent to
institutions so that they could recieve "help." The latest woman to
get such help is Carol Fisher of Cleveland. Fisher is on the staff of
Revolution Books, and on January 28, while she was putting Bush Step
Down posters on telephone polls in Cleveland Heights, she was ordered
by a police officer to take them down or face a fine. When she
complied, she was asked for her ID, which she did not have on her. He
then grabbed her by the arm, pushed her against a store window, and
knocked her face down onto the sidewalk. He was joined by another
officer, and they both pressed their feet against her back until she
could not breathe. Her chin was pressed down into the concrete;
Fisher has osteoradionecrosis in her jaw from radiation treatments
for cancer.

Fisher was handcuffed and shackled. During this time, Fisher yelled
out to everyone who passed what the posters were about. One of the
police officers then told her, Fisher says, to "Shut up or I will
kill you! I am sick of this anti-Bush shit! You are definitely going
to the psyche ward."

She was then threatened some more and taken away in an EMS truck. At
the hospital, Fisher was asked to undress in front of the police
officers, which she refused to do. The officers refused to leave, so
a nurse attempted to shield her while she undressed. Fisher says she
was then cuffed to the bed, given an IV of some sort, and made to
wait hours for a psychiatrist to interview her. By this time, members
of her World Can't Wait group were in the emergency room having a
confrontation with the police, who refused to let them see Fisher.
Someone called the news media, who never made an appearance.

Fisher was eventually released and sent home. On May 2, she went to
court and was found guilty of two counts of felonious assault of two
police officers. The prosecution's "witnesses" had not seen the
alleged assault; rather, they claimed that Fisher lacked respect for
authority. It took a jury more than eight hours to find her guilty.
According to a letter to the editor of The Free Press, the
prosecution misquoted Fisher's testimony and gave the jury incorrect
information about the city's arrestable offenses. When asked to
clarify the law, the judge refused.

As part of the pre-sentencing procedure, the judge, Timothy McGinty,
had Fisher undergo a state psychological exam. He had already
surmised publicly that Fisher must be mentally unstable to resist
arrest. McGinty then declared her "delusional," and on May 9, ordered
her to be incarcerated in psychiatric unit of the Cuyahoga County
Jail in downtown Cleveland, where she now sits and waits; she could
face a three-year prison sentence. According to Mark Crispin Miller,
who has spoken with Fisher by telephone, Fisher has also been placed
on suicide watch, has had her eyeglasses taken from her, and--if she
refuses to take the psyche exam--she will be sent to North Coast
Mental Institute for a 20-day evaluation.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2006/05/
uppity_clevelan.html

---

Brownshirts, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your decency!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:26 PM

Hmmmm...

Article found in a liberal blog.


Yeah...it's believable.(sigh)

As for supressing dissent?

Try standing up for the truth instead of making yourselves look so ridiculous stating the same false things over and over. You are, evidently, weak enough to start believing these things by just continuously repeating yourself.

It's a funny thing about truth, however.

Truth is made from fact. Not something that you want to be true so bad that you convince yourself into believing that it's true.

The truth isn't being suppressed at all. The last time I checked, however, defamation and libel were still considered against the law.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:31 PM

Hub:

If you find the story I posted lacks credibility, why not post a rebuttal in fact instead of a lot of steamed up, brown-tinted rhetoric?

The issue is not the truth or the lack of truth in the protester's position. It was the fact that Bushites suppressed her right to free expression and used an abuse of mental health institutions to do so.

I would ask you to find evidence for your vague assertions that there is something untrue about the story.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: dianavan
Date: 13 May 06 - 04:27 PM

Hubby - Wake up!

For those of you who are appalled at the actions of the police, prosecutor and judge, here is the address. Write him and tell him what you think of this arrest and the trial.

http://www.cleveland.com/printer/printer.ssf?/education/nie/justice/ask.html

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 May 06 - 04:39 PM

Amos,

Having lived through the McCarthy period of the Fifties, supression of speech is nothing new. John Adams was responsible for it in his day and perhaps that it's being challenged today may be a good thing in that it will wake people up.

Free speech is a right not just for the wealthy. Cindy Sheehan needs to be supported as one of the sane voices in the babbling cacaphony
of propaganda.

She not only has the right but the duty to speak out and I'm grateful that she does. I was once a Democrat but I will not support any candidate that will not speak out against the American occupation of Iraq. This means that I can't really call myself a Democrat any longer.

it seems to be a historical pattern that peacemakers are trashed by fearful opponents who have a warlike agenda.

Go Cindy!!!

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: GUEST,Bobert at sister-in-law's house
Date: 13 May 06 - 09:14 PM

Hmmmmmm, Hubster... Seems it is yer boys who have been the ones caught telling all the lies...

(But, Bobert, Bush says that he didn't know he was lieing...)

Tell it to the judge... In this case the judge is the Amercian people and if the polls are anywhere close only 33% of Americans still believe the guy... That mean that 2 out of 3 don't...

Yet, you will try the Karl Rove trick of blaming the honest folks who, BTW, were 100% correct in the lead up to the war and Bush was 100% wrong, as being the folks that don't telll the truth???

Is this yer final answer, Hub???

_______ Yes

_______ No

Are you on Bush's payroll, 'er what, "cuase the only thing that I can think of that would make someone so blind would be money, bad liquir, drugs or wild womenz.... 'Er maybe all four...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 14 May 06 - 03:03 PM

"I was once a Democrat but I will not support any candidate that will not speak out against the American occupation of Iraq. This means that I can't really call myself a Democrat any longer."


I'm sure the mainstream democrats thank you. Your type is what's giving the democrats a bad name.




"The issue is not the truth or the lack of truth in the protester's position."

Thank you, Amos, for clearing that up. You finally admitted that it doesn't matter what the truth is as long as somebody says it. Admitting it is the first step to recovery my friend.

If you will read the story, no background was ever given for this woman. We don't know if she has a mental problem from the past. She may very well have one. Just because it doesn't say that she didn't resist in some form or fashion doesn't mean that she didn't.

It's just as in the case with a friend of mine.

After his divorce, he met up with a girl that we went to high school with. She lived in Austin and they started a long distance relationship. She was taking care of her sick grandmother and when they put her into a nursing home, my friend helped her and her children move to North Texas and they moved in together. After living together for about a year, my friend realized that he hadn't had enough time to get over his divorce from his ex-wife of eight years. She too, was not happy in the relationship. He moved out. A month later, the girl tells him that she's two months pregnant with his child. So instead of marrying a girl that he knew that he didn't love, he told her that he would do the right thing and support his child in any way that he could. He paid her rent, paid her utilities, went with her to the doctor's office and is now monetarily supporting the child.

Now if this was worthy to be a news story written by today's media or even by some in here, here's what it would sound like:

"North Texas:
A north Texas man, who found a former classmate in Austin, started dating her and moved her away from family that loved her in the Austin area. After living with her for a year in the north Texas area, he got her pregnant and then left her."

Now in two sentences, even though it's factually accurate, does not give the whole story and makes my friend look like a jackass even though he is one the nicest guys that you could ever meet. It does not give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It plays upon preconceived notions and prejudices that are already formed in the intended audiences mind.

So in other words, there's probably a lot more to this story than what's being written. I'd be interested to know the whole story before I could jump to the conclusion that anything has been suppressed.

So your evidence, at best, is very, very weak.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:07 PM

Go see the film "Sophie Scholl".

See if it reminds you of anything or anyone.

Particularly the gent in the red robes.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 15 May 06 - 04:22 PM

Well, Hubster, you sure have not lost the art of spin. You twisted what I said right around and made it come out backwards, like a man swallowing a chicken feet first.

Just to set the record straight, the truth or lack thereof that is not germane is the content of the protestor's position. She was expressing an opinion.

The truth of the story is VERY important. You find it lacks credibility, but you fail to say why.

You simply assert at length that distortion in the press is possible, which I do not disagree with at all.

I don't care whether you assume the story is flawed or you assume it is mainly true. That's your lookout. But don't be twisting my words around like that.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 15 May 06 - 07:36 PM

Well, Amos, as long as the Hubster is attacking you, the messenger, and not the message you can rest asuured that Hub knows in his heart that he knows he's playin' a very weak hand... Very weak... So weak that everyone else at the table can now see the sweatbeads on his forehead...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 16 May 06 - 12:23 AM

I didn't twist anything, Amos. You posted the story. At the end, this was your message...


"Brownshirts, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your decency!"


With that little remark, are you trying to say that you don't care whether or not the story is true and are just using the "thought" behind the story to prove your point or do you actually believe the story is as just as it appears to be without knowing firsthand any history behind the parties involved?

With the brownshirts remark, it looks as if you take it to be the honest truth without prejudice.

If that's the case, I wrote a bestseller that stayed on the NY Times best seller list for many weeks in a row. Would you like to buy all of the remaining copies?

The only distortion here is you trying to pass this story off as proof of some "sinister plan" being cooked up by the current administration to attempt to suppress anyone's free speech who doesn't agree with their policy.


Stick to facts. Even though you're pretty good, don't try to exalt yourself to "Dan Rather" status just yet.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 16 May 06 - 12:48 AM

I took the story at face value.

Apparently you have reasons for not doing so. You still haven't said what thy are, in particular.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 May 06 - 01:52 PM

But didja see the film?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 16 May 06 - 03:15 PM

Mark Crispin Miller adds information on the case in an article entitled "Stalinism in Ohio". An interesting read.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 16 May 06 - 03:17 PM

The lady's own account of what occurred can be read on this page.

Anyone still want to suggest this is a fruadulent or imaginary report?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 16 May 06 - 05:11 PM

Nowhere did I say that this is a fraudulent or an imaginary report.

I'm just pointing out the fact that because of your blind hatred of the current administration, you're willing to believe any report slanted from anyone's POV as long as it helps you to support your point.

Equally as important as that, you and others around here are quick to dismiss any good news offered up to you about the economy or the war or anything else as "propaganda" from a "corrupt aministration".

Talk about the blind leading the blind.

Ask anyone who's had a run in with the police. I'm sure you won't find a person anywhere guilty of anything or at least willing to admit to it. Hell, it could have happened exactly the way that she described. But on the flip side, there may be a lot of stuff making her look like a complete idiot that she is pretending like it never even happened.

Taking things like this at face value and then making stupid statements like you made at the end is really the same as building your house upon the sand.

You're like my friend that had just been dumped and was on the rebound. You'd be willing to jump into the car with anybody if they would just smile and look your way.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 May 06 - 05:19 PM

So far I have yet to see any news or a rebuttal of the woman's story by any of the involved. So that leads me to think that no one is denying that the woman what she says she did. The only question here is weither or not her subsequent treatment was called for. She posted a politcial opinion on a telephone pole & she wore a t-shirt that made a politcial statement on it. Did any of this, first warrant an arrest, I see no difference in her action than if she had posted directions to a yard sale. If an arrest warrant was not called for than all actions following this incident are not relevent. Actions if this was an arrestable offence do not demand a psych evaluation without a reasonable cause. A display on a t-shirt is not a reasonable cause as "per the law" for an arrest or for an evaluation. It sounds more that, at least until otherwise explained be the police & the court, there should be a law suit pending against the police department & a court inquiery as to weither the judge is fit to continue sitting on the bench. The people & the law should not have to be subject to this kind of treatment because they have politcial opinions of any sort. This is a disgrace to America.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 16 May 06 - 06:36 PM

Hub:

This thread is not about this administration, but about the sad-sack knee-jerk mobthinkers who elected it, and who in their passion for it are willing to throw so many important principles to one side in order to act out their version of right thinking. Far right.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 16 May 06 - 07:53 PM

Ummm, where is all this good news, anyway, Hub??? You say the economy is good??? For whom, might I ask??? Sho nuff ain't good fir tghe average guy on the street... Oh, jobs are getting created, you say??? Great... Where did the good jobs go that cretaed theese new and unimporoved lousy jobs??? And who ever it is in the Buish administartion who says that inflation ain't a factor is on serious drugs... Ask any working man... Yeah, where's the good news, Hub...

Oh, you say that the good news in Iraq??? Since when is a danged civil war good news???

Really, Hubby... Exactly where is all this good news??? Unless yer a member of the corrupt upper 2% who, admittedly, are doing just fine...

Yeah, tell us again under which rock yopu are hiding all this good news...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 16 May 06 - 08:16 PM

"So far I have yet to see any news or a rebuttal of the woman's story by any of the involved."

That's exactly my point, Barry. I've never even heard of this woman's troubles until Amos dug it out of some-left wing blog. I haven't seen it on any of the news programs that are just waiting with baited breath for the next bomb to explode in Iraq to show "proof" that we're losing the war. It hasn't even made the political talk show route, that I've heard anyway. If this is an actual "true" story and happened exactly the way that it was left on the blog, I could almost guarantee that it would have made it to the mainstream.

Amos presents it as gospel and a sign of suppression.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 May 06 - 09:07 PM

I don't expect you'll be hearing much on this "story to be buried" either. Wrong, that was not my point. My point is that I HAVE seen a decent bit on this story & none of it seems to support the actions taken by the police department or the court, claiming any reasons justifing their actions other than she's a woman whose not in favor of the present right wing mind set that, it seems that the so called athorities are in favor of. Justice is supposed to be blind & so far in this case Justice is being raped & weither or not she's blinded it is apparent. That is my point, and until I see otherwise I have no reason to see it as anything but what it is.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 16 May 06 - 10:19 PM

Yeah, Hub, dinn't thinkl you had any answers fir my questions about just where to look fir the good news...

Here its been a couple of hours and you ain't come up with no good news...

Hmmmmmm???

Maybe there ain't no good news, after all...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 16 May 06 - 10:39 PM

Bobert,

Until you can intelligently contribute something to the conversation, please refrain from showing how unprepared you are to talk with the big boys.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 May 06 - 09:23 AM

That's right, Bubby, if it aint splashed all over Fox "News"[sic], it can't be true.

Who is it again that's "blind"?

Pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 06 - 09:46 AM

http://www.cleveland.com/sun/sunpress/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1146761088116210.xml&coll=3


NO mention on CNN, ABC, NBC, or other mainstream media. 10,000+ entries on Leftist media and blogs, so the story is not being "surpressed."
Note the conviction for assulting police, NOT posting anything.

There is more to this story than the person accused is saying. IMO

As someone accused of being a "Bushite", I have made no attempt to surpress dissent in America- thus the title of this thread is false and insulting to me.

Subject: RE: BS:SOME Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 06 - 10:05 AM

From her description of having her face pressed into the concrete, it is hard to imagine anyone believes this 56 year old woman assaulted the police.

As for the title, BB, the use of plural nouns does not automatically indicate "all"; it can equally well indicate "some", as in "Scientists Discover Cats Like to Swim".

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 06 - 10:12 AM

Amos,

"From her description of having her face pressed into the concrete,..."

And from others decriptions? I have been criticised for NOT having read the Far Left view of things, but can you present ANY mainstream version? ANYTHING from other than Left sources that have a point to score? If not, will YOU agree to accept a story that ONLY conservative sources are presented for as the absolute truth- and if not, explain just why you are so narrowminded and bigoted?


"As for the title, BB, the use of plural nouns does not automatically indicate "all"; it can equally well indicate "some", as in "Scientists Discover Cats Like to Swim"."

Agreed- so I can count on you to get those people who object to my title " Liberal Hate" off my back about the title?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 06 - 10:28 AM

I am inclined to agree that BOTH our titles could have been better chosen. Why don't you start a thread called "Liberal Loves" and make a study of the things that liberals seem to really delight in.

Here are a few, from my liberal perspective:

1. Free and open communications revealing bright ideas.
2. Human compassion showing itself in efficient actions.
3. Innovative enterprise succeeding without being suffocated by established enterprise.
4.   Courageous truth telling having postive effects.
5. Creative and positive solutions to problems that bring about win-win conditions.
6.   Moments when human tolerance, mutual respect and individual dignity are manifested.
7.    Instances of individuals enjoying privacy, freedom of and from religion, the right to vote and freedom of expression.
8.    Sustainable agriculture and renewable resources intelligently applied for maximumbenefit.

I am sure there are many more.

If you want to know what liberals hate, they are:

1. Demagoguery
2. Public officials catering to private interest for personal gain, also known as corruption.
3. Enforced conformancy to ideas.
4. Falsification of reality for personal gain or political manipulation.
5. Underhanded PR phrases which try to make you think the untrue is true and the true is untrue.
6. The unnecessary exercise of violence against humans.
7. The unnecessary use of violence against other species of animals and plants.
8. Unthinking rapine of resources.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 06 - 11:33 AM

"If you want to know what liberals hate, they are:

1. Demagoguery
2. Public officials catering to private interest for personal gain, also known as corruption.
3. Enforced conformancy to ideas.
4. Falsification of reality for personal gain or political manipulation.
..."


Ain't NO liberals here on Mudcat, then... 1,3,4 all over the place.

Unless they are self-hating.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 06 - 12:11 PM

Still awaiting the good news, Hubby...

And just who are the "big boys" anyway??? Like the deep thinkers who have gotten our country so screwed up??? Or just the one's on the take???

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 06 - 01:38 PM

I don't recall requiring you to accept any ideas, Bruce.

And I certainly don't get any personal gain out of posting to the Mudcat, so that rules out 4. I guess demagoguery is a pretty vague thing to accuse a non-leader of, so it's a wash.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bushites Suppress Dissent in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 06 - 01:44 PM

I will stand corrected. Let me rephrase my comment:

Ain't too many liberals here on Mudcat, then... 1,3,4 all over the place.