BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old

Subject: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:37 AM

A friend of mine sent me this. Be warned - it will stir you.

What Can One Say

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:54 AM

Yes, it takes courage, patience, understanding, honesty...wisdom.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 06 - 11:16 AM

Hey, Hawk, read it. Please.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:12 PM

Thanks, Ebbie. If I didn't know better, i would think I was seeing Viet Nam again.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 06 - 01:11 PM

But maybe that is good, Sinsull. As has been said many times, hadn't it been for the outrage of the people at that time the Vietnam war might not be finished even now. I welcome similar outrage today; I think it's seriously overdue.

My thought is that a war against terrorism- not to mention a totally unrealistic war against terror - is actually not winnable in any sense except superficially. We may reach the day when acts of terrorism are fewer, but the potential is there any day of the year, and year after year.

Which is why the causes of disaffection must be addressed.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 May 06 - 01:51 PM

I wasn't able to get it to load. Can you give us a clue as to what it's about ? Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:09 PM

Wesley, my friend wqrned thqt dial up is slow on this. I recently went to broadband so I have no trouble.

This site was created by a 15-year-old student in Alabama, Ava Lowrey. All of it done in April 2006, it is given in 7 segments at this point.

They are labeled:

'No More Broken Promises'
'WWJD' (What would Jesus do)
'The Time is Now'
'Warning: Adult Language and Poor Spelling Ahead'
'A Decision He Lied About'

It is backed by songs and is full of photos and other depictions of deployment to Iraq, return from Iraq, war in Iraq...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:38 PM

Ebbie, the protesting did not end the 'war' in Vietnam, our ineptness causedit. Remember the escape from the roof top of the US Embassy as the North Vietnamese tanks rolled into Saigon?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:43 PM

Oh, I remember very well. However, my perception is that if the people had not shown so clearly that they no longer supported the war, the US would have poured increasingly more and more men and materiel into Vietnam. Not that they/we would have eventually 'won' but the debacle could have gone on much longer.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Amos
Date: 02 May 06 - 03:00 PM

Declaring war on a condition is an absurdity that only a politician would consider doing; anyone who has any military savvy would define their enemy in a way that would make it possible to know when you had won, or not. If the Bush administration really wants to wage war against nebulous conditions, I would recommend they "focus" on "nebulous platitudes" and "meaningless bloviation" as major domestic enemies.\

A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 May 06 - 03:19 PM

I happen to agree with this kid that the Iraq war was wrong and should not have been started.
But his approach is just overly emotional propaganda and does not at all appeal to me.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 06 - 03:43 PM

First of all, Wolfgang, this kid is a girl. Does this mean that you did not follow the link?

There is nothing wrong with emotion, per se. On occasion it is profoundly appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: GUEST,Not that guest, not that one, either
Date: 02 May 06 - 03:44 PM

Who would Jesus bomb?
God, please protect me from your followers!
God bless...Everyone, without exception!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: LilyFestre
Date: 02 May 06 - 05:10 PM

Not long ago there was a thread here about how people felt about the war in Iraq and there was a link in that thread that led to another very touching video...does anyone recall this thread? I've looked through my posts but can't find it. The site had a video for each anniversary of the war and one of Bush and his pals doing the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: LilyFestre
Date: 02 May 06 - 06:29 PM

Found it:   www.bushflash.com

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 May 06 - 06:53 PM

Jesus would not bomb anyone, but he WOULD drive the moneylenders out of the temple. The moneylenders in this case are the lobbyists, bankers, and CEOs who control political parties and plan, arrange, and fund unnecessary wars.

I did read it, Ebbie. The whole thing. As Wolfgang says, it's emotional propaganda, but in this case the emotions are entirely justified. This war is wrong.

As for Vietnam, it WAS the tremendous surge in domestic protest against that war that got the USA out of it. Anyone who lived back then should be well aware of that. They weren't defeated militarily, they were defeated psychologically, because their own public lost belief in that war...as they are now losing belief in the Iraq war...and for good reason.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Bobert
Date: 02 May 06 - 08:02 PM

And I vividly remember back in 70 and 71 with hawks suggestin' using nuclear weapons and had it not been for the demonstartions maybe that was Nixon's "Secret Plan" that somehow never was revealed???

But, yeah, like LH has pointed out, the American people had turned against the war... Heck, even my Republican father marched in the Moritorium in D.C. with my mom and me... And that was the proudest day of my life, I might add...

I also couldn't get the videos to load since I'm on dial-up but from what folks have had to say, this girl has left her mark for peace...

The saddest part about this entire nightmare is tens of thousands of innocent people have been killed just so that one party could stay in power a little longer so it could rob workin' folks right here at home...

This, IMO, is worse than Vietnam and for that very reason... Vietnam wasn't about winning elections yet invading Iraq was very much a political decision with an eye on the '04 election... Purdy sick decision making... But it worked... Barely... Okay, maybe not at all if historians can sort out Ohio (the '04 Florida...)

And lastly, we thought after Vietnam that we had learned a valuable lesson from our parent's generation and here we have allowed those of our own generation to put the sword before what we said we had learned... If nothin' greater can come out of this is that the kids, like the one who set up this website, will not allow their generation to fall into the same traps for Einstein said that insanity is "repeating a behavior expecting different results"....

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 03 May 06 - 12:16 PM

Ebbie,

They would be more moving if they didn't use the same images over and over. It tends to minimize the impact if people are saying "What?, only fifty bad pictures?" and without true context it's only propaganda.

And the one with the swearing is off base as I've heard just as much of it from the Liberal side.

Don't get me wrong, I think we were wrong to start this thing. But I don't remember being all that worldly wise when I was fifteen. I really don't think she sees anything other than the wounded and dying (which should be enough!). Not that I support G.W.Bs. reasons for going to war, but does she understand what happened to the Kurds and Shiites while Saddam ruled? Does she understand the genocide in Darfur?

We can pull out and end our involvement in Iraq (which I'd like to see happen) but I don't think that it's going to result in peace in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:09 PM

Chief Chaos (good to see you!), there are a couple of points I'd make:

* These articles were written separately not as an expansion on the previous one. So, no, I'm not surprised that many photos were used multiple times.

* The swearing- the girl didn't even imply that other people of either side are not capable of using confused thinking and foul language. That was not a subject she addressed.

* We don't know the ending yet of the story. Yes, the Kurds and the Shi'ites suffered under Saddam. But removing the fist of Saddam so that now the three factions are fighting amongst themselves and with the very high risk of all-out civil war has created a situation that is dangerous in the extreme.

* More to the point, I guess, is asking just why it was the US's responsibility and right to go in there in the first place. And for constantly shifting reasons.

* I don't understand: You say, "What? Only 50 bad pictures?" Since no one else has said that, it must have come from your own mind. Please explain.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:26 PM

I think the emotionality is completely appropriate. Busco has been all too effectively using propogand emotionality for his side of the issue since before it even began. Remember that war represents the failure of all other forms of conflict resolution. That may be a quote from someone, but I can't remember who.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Peace Takes Courage' -A 15 year old
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:55 PM

In previous post, it should be "Bushco." Then it makes more sense.