BS: Is closing threads censorship?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 03:49 PM

Great. Now the clones can take their shots at Roger all in the same thread, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:01 PM

It is more likely that there will now be much less posting in the BS section Bruce!
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:10 PM

This is not a shambles thread and it should not count as one. I started it and I asincerely asked the question.

I am requesting that thisa thread be open for all eternity.

If someone would like a PM to that effect, I will send them one.

The on-going discussions basically boil down to the childish, "it's my ball, so it's my rules" concept.

To watch it constantly discussed and the power brokers stick out their chest is somewhat entertaining I find.

To the same effect, there should be 1 whining thread about anything else at one time.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:29 PM

Send me a PM then, Martin. It's a slow day in Orillia. ;-P

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:36 PM

You need to log in to receive a PM!
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:46 PM

Right now I think the best thing that could happen to the Mudcat is to close down the BS section for a good 6 months. Let it become a music site again. Then if it looks like people are going to behave perhaps the BS section could be brought back.

This is just a personal opinion - your mileage may vary, ect.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:47 PM

OK I logged in and sent Little Hawk a PM to keep the thread open.

Maybe I should send one to Jack the sailor. He says that he doesn't read my PMs and deletes them. but if you put a short message in the title of the PM, he can't help but see that.

I love the feeling that comes with success.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:49 PM

Novelty is always amusing Martin ☺
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:49 PM

describe "behave."

That sounds like something a demasculating school teacher would say.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:50 PM

Latex novelties I think some would find amusing also, Giok.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 06 - 06:16 PM

Why close BS for six months? It isn't what is being posted that is the problem.

The problem is what is being deleted, why it's being deleted, who is doing the deleting, who is doing the reinstating because they don't agree with the deleting and five or six people all with differing definitions of hijacking and personal attack being able to do any of the above.

Cease moderation for six months and see the result. And before someone posts that it would be a quagmire of nastiness, unless you have proven psychic abilities don't bother. And I mean tested in laboratory conditions with a thesis written on it and video evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 May 06 - 06:34 PM

You almost hit on something there, GUEST @6:16PM. How about three different forums for people with different attitudes toward free speech? There would be "Turbo Mudcat" for those who think the forum should be wide open and unmoderated. Then there'd be "Regular Strength Mudcat", moderated by Joe & Clones. And there'd be "Mudcat Light" in which anyone could edit or delete anyone else's post.

(Just in case someone doesn't get it, that's a joke, not a serious suggestion.)

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 May 06 - 06:53 PM

No wait! It wasn't a joke! If I say it was a joke then that means I'm trying to interject humor and, as we've recently learned, at least one "clone" considers interjecting humor to be tantamount to attempting to hijack the thread which will result in the offensive post being DELETED! I was serious! Three forums for three types of folks!

Now it's not a joke. It's just a really stupid idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 06:57 PM

I am afraid to either agree or disagree with you, BWL, lest one of the positions be construed as showing or not showing support for your position which you seem to have wavered on and so, in closing, yes: he's right or wrong!

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:00 PM

Just don't be asking any difficult questions because they lead to thread CLOSURE!

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:02 PM

Ain't that the truth. Or not. I am agreeing with you in a non combative way.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:08 PM

I took that to be most non combative, but please don't agree lest I was wrong to say to BWL that he was either correct or not, because then you will have become someone who is attempting to side-track the thread by using the word "ain't", and that's pretty combative--or NOT, if saying it could possibly be construed as combative and make you feel that tuna in salmon sandwiches is gauche.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:15 PM

I am glad you're keeping this thread open, Martin--and I am glad that there are a few others as well who recognize that this is not about Shambles, and the questions we all have can not be dealt with by simply being dismissive of Shambles--

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:28 PM

It suited some people to make it into a shambles issue. Like I said in a probably closed thread, I watched as my posts supporting shambles were deleted. And I wasn't alone. But you can only play that game for so long. And the longer it went on the lazier those playing it became until it was transparent.

And peace you do know that by mentioning tuna and salmon in the same thread contravenes the 92nd ammendment. One thread one fish.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:38 PM

Well, closing threads works, because that thread still has unanswered questions on it. And they ain't being asked anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:38 PM

And now that fish has been mentioned in this thread it can't be mentioned in any other thread until next Tuesday. It's okay to mention crabs, shrimp, squid, or oyters on another thread, but you can't call them "shellfish" since that has the word "fish" in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:39 PM

Or what? The thread will flounder?

We might tuna you out?

Someone might carp on your choice of fish?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:43 PM

Not crabs, PLEASE!

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:44 PM

Wet Dream......Kip Adotta

It was April the forty-first
Being a quadruple leap year
I was driving in downtown Atlantis
My barracuda was in the shop
So I was in a rented stingray
And it was overheating

So I pulled into a Shell Station
They said I'd blown a seal
I said, "Fix the damn thing
And leave my private life out of it
Okay pal?"

While they were doing that
I walked over to a place called the Oyster Bar, a real dive
But I knew the owner
He used to play for the Dolphins
I said "Hi Gil"
You have to yell, he's hard of herring

Think I had a wet dream
Cruisin' thru the Gulf Stream
Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh
Wet dream

Gil was also down on his luck
Fact is he was barely keeping his head below water
I bellied up to the sandbar
He poured me the usual

Rusty snail, hold the grunion
Shaken not stirred
With a peanut butter and jellyfish sandwich on the side
Heavy on the mako

I slipped him a fin
On porpoise
I was feeling good
I even dropped a sand dollar in the box for Jerry's squids
For the halibut

Well the place was crowded
We were packed in like sardines They were all there to listen to the big band sounds of Tommy Dorsal
What sole

Tommy was rockin' the place with a very popular tuna
Salmon Chanted Evening
And the stage was surrounded by screaming groupers
Probably there to see the bass player

One of them was this cute little yellowtail
And she's giving me the eye
So I figured this is my chance for a little fun
You know, piece of Pisces

But she said things I just couldn't fathom
She was too deep, seemed to be under a lot of pressure
Boy, could she drink
She drank like a . . .
She drank a lot

I said "What's your sign"
She said "Aquarium"
I said "Great, let's get tanked"

Think I had a wet dream
Cruisin' thru the Gulf Stream
Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh
Wet dream

I invited her to my place for a midnight bait
I said "Come on baby, it'll only take a few minnows"
She threw me that same old line
"Not tonight, I gotta haddock"

And she wasn't kidding either
Cause in came the biggest, meanest looking haddock
I'd ever seen come down the pike
He was covered with mussels

He came over to me and said
"Listen, shrimp, don't you come trollin' around here"
What a crab
This guy was steamed
I could see the anchor in his eyes

I turned to him, I said
"A-balone, you're just being shellfish"
Well, I knew it was going to be trouble and so did Gil
'Cause he was already on the phone to the cods

The haddock hits me with a sucker punch
I catch him with a left hook
He eels over
It was a fluke but there he was
Lying on the deck, flat as a mackerel
Kelpless

I said "Forget the cods Gil
This guy's gonna need a sturgeon"
Well, the yellowtail was impressed with the way I landed her boyfriend
She came over to me, she said
"Hey, big boy, you're really a game fish
What's your name"
I said "Marlin"

Think I had a wet dream
Cruisin' thru the Gulf Stream
Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh
Wet dream

Well, from then on we had a whale of a time
I took her to dinner, I took her to dance
I bought her a bouquet of flounders
And then I went home with her
And what did I get for my trouble
A case of the clams

Think I had a wet dream
Cruisin' thru the Gulf Stream
Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Wet dream
Cruisin' thru the Gulf Stream
Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Wet dream
Cruisin' thru the Gulf Stream
Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:47 PM

Sometimes I get the distinct impression that someone is using this forum to harvest data for a PHD thesis on the dynamics of internet behaviour. Lately there has been no shortage of material which could be analyzed and processed into academic fodder.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 06 - 08:06 PM

Fodder begins with F. Which is too close to fish for comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 06 - 08:30 PM

I thought you couldn't have meat and fish in the same thread. You can have dairy in the fish threads, but not in the meat threads. And no shellfish threads at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 08:52 PM

Thank you, MTed

I do want this thread to stay open because this is a serious issue.

Shambles has been dissed for doing nothing but standing up for what he believes in. The people who have a problem with him quite frankly are dickwads who obviously get uncomfortable in their own world of political correctness. These are the people who are being "protected" by such things as posts being deleted, thread closures, etc.

Fuck them!

I think there is a mirage here. A mirage of fairness and indifference.

Boo Hoo. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! My feelings got hurt by someone on a web site. Quick! Delete that. Pretend it wasn't there.

What the fuck is the real agenda of Mudcat anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:03 PM

It's agenda presumably was somewhere for people to come and discuss music above the line and bs below it.

It has morphed into some people's surrogate front room. Where people sit in their favourite chairs and nod in agreement at each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: number 6
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:04 PM

Never mind fish, dairy, meat or shellfish ... Just don't talk about the weather.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:05 PM

Could be, Guest

Why not call bs what it really is.

bullshit

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:58 PM

It's the weather what done it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:03 PM

TOM WAITS - "Emotional Weather Report"

late night and early morning low clouds
with a chance of fog
chance of showers into the afternoon
with variable high cloudiness
and gusty winds, gusty winds
at times around the corner of
Sunset and Alvorado
things are tough all over
when the thunder storms start
increasing over the southeast
and south central portions
of my apartment, I get upset
and a line of thunderstorms was
developing in the early morning
ahead of a slow moving coldfront
cold blooded
with tornado watches issued shortly
before noon Sunday, for the areas
including, the western region
of my mental health
and the northern portions of my
ability to deal rationally with my
disconcerted precarious emotional
situation, it's cold out there
colder than a ticket taker's smile
at the Ivar Theatre, on a Saturday night
flash flood watches covered the
southern portion of my disposition
there was no severe weather well
into the afternoon, except for a lone gust of
wind in the bedroom
in a high pressure zone, covering the eastern
portion of a small suburban community
with a 103 and millibar high pressure zone
and a weak pressure ridge extending from
my eyes down to my cheeks cause since
you left me baby
and put the vice grips on my mental health
well the extended outlook for an
indefinite period of time until you
come back to me baby is high tonight
low tomorrow, and precipitation is
expected

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: jaze
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:04 PM

Mudcat is what it is. Plain and simple. Either like or don't. If you don't, you can always start your own forum where everything can be just the way YOU want it. Why torture yourself with a forum that drives you crazy? Start your own if you don't like this one. Then, when we visit you, we would have to abide by YOUR rules. Wouldn't that make you happy? Or don't they let little pimple-faced pud fucks in cubicles at the telemarketers office start their own forums?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:09 PM

"pimple-faced pud fucks"

George Bush?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:13 PM

"... dissed for doing nothing but standing up for what he believes in."

nothing BUT?...And the KKK were 'just' gonna march thru Skokie, standing up for what they believe in...showing how proud & patriotic they were...*wry grin*..(yeah, that's an extreme example of overdoing it...but you get the point, maybe)

It seems a bunch of folks want to stand up for what they believe in, too...namely, that Shambles' technique is disruptive and misleading. As you can see, Shambles still has the opportunity to say pretty much what he pleases...in one thread at a time....he just can't do the Mudcat equivilant of renting a truck with loudspeakers and driving thru many threads at once, posting, re-posting years old quotes and filling the air with tedious, repetitious rehashing.

Not a perfect solution to either his goals or Joe & the clones problemsm but we'll see how it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:16 PM

. . . or Stephen Harper?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:24 PM

?? what's a Stephen Harper?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:25 PM

never mind...Google showed me. Guess I'm behind on the news.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: number 6
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:27 PM

"what's a Stephen Harper?" ... he's Bush's boy up here in Canada.

He's the current Prime Minister of Canada.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:31 PM

Canada: So, sIx, how's the weather?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: number 6
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:36 PM

I can't say Peace .... I might get deleted.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:57 PM

Cloudy in the West, and it Looks Like Rain"

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 11:30 PM

wry grin, Bill D? Maybe in your own mind. I'd say more like a shit faced grin.

And don't compare this to skokie, because you haven't got a clue. I went to high school in Skokie and live one town over currently. Been around that town all of my life.

comparing the KKK to a guy like Shambles trying to make a point that he believes in on a web forum is ludicrous, basically stupid, and typical of your pseudo-intellectual and politically correct posturing.

Limiting him to 1 post is censorship, when there are no other limits imposed on anything or anybody else.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 11:50 PM

Depends on whose shitlist yer on at any given time, Martin.

BTW, Shambles isn't limited to one post. The sentence read something along the lines of him being limited to one thread to talk about censorship. Hell, at least then ya know where the clones will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 May 06 - 10:19 AM

You won't be deleted,number 6, no one is ever deleted. Sometimes you run into an "overly enthusiastic Clone".

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 May 06 - 11:05 AM

But is this not backwards? Shouldn't YOU have to find a good reason to close a thread rather than posters having to find a reason that you then judge good enough to re-open it? Posters do not (currently) have to find a good reason to start a thread - why should they be expected to have to find a good reason for you to re-open it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 May 06 - 11:14 AM

This thread of course is asking if the closing of threads is censorship and nothing to do with the following which about censorship and attitude. But as the discussion is not permitted to take place in the the clearly titled thread - it will have to take place in this one.

Whether the attitude that seems to be currently encouraged on our forum of judging the worth of our fellow posters and trying to find way to prevent them from posting where and what they choose - is desirable, has anything to do with Max's intentions for our forum, why this has happened and how/if this attitude can be changed?

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 06 - 11:20 AM

Mudcat is what it is. Plain and simple. Either like or don't. If you don't, you can always start your own forum where everything can be just the way YOU want it. Why torture yourself with a forum that drives you crazy? Start your own if you don't like this one. Then, when we visit you, we would have to abide by YOUR rules. Wouldn't that make you happy? Or don't they let little pimple-faced pud fucks in cubicles at the telemarketers office start their own forums?

Jaze what it was and what it has become are two different animals. And stop shouting dear it's very unbecoming.

Subject: RE: BS: Is closing threads censorship?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 May 06 - 11:32 AM

It's a bit disingenuous to say that Shambles was dissed for fighting for something he believes in Martin.
Somebody changed the title of one of his threads without asking him, which caused such an outpouring of angst from Shambles, that one would have thought he had been physically castrated without anaesthetics.
As I understand it, the thread title referred to the PEL legislation which was going through the House of Commons at that time. This PEL bill affected only England and Wales, and in order to clarify matters for the uninitiated, the letters UK were added to denote that the thread concerned matters in that country.
Helpful thing to do I think, although it should have said England and Wales not UK, as the act does not affect Scotland!
After all why would the users of a US based web site, with a world wide membership be interested in this 'little local difficulty', it seems like an odd place to choose to run his crusade. Maybe he would have been censored on most other sites which are not as liberal as the Mudcat?
Now nobody is doubting Roger's sincerity or dedication in fighting this cause, the PEL bill is a catchall that unfairly impinges on the activities of people who love to make music in pubs and village halls in England and Wales, and should be rescinded immediately.
His swamping of the threads with quotes, was over reaction in spades, his personal vendetta against the clones in general and Joe Offer in particular has strayed a long way from an anti PEL campaign.
His extrapolation of an editing action into a full blown anti moderation campaign defies logic.
It is in short his methods and not his motives that are the cause of concern to many people on here. It is a bit like shooting doctors outside abortion clinics, because you disagree with the practice, or digging up the remains of someones Mother as a means of blackmailing that person into stopping breeding guinea pigs for medical research.
While on the surface of it Shambles being 'dissed' for holding the views he does is unjust, and his careful selection of his quotes might make it seem like that, this is merely the part he wants you to see to gain sympathy, it is not for the reasons he states that he has been asked/told to cease his carpet bombing of the threads.
There have been mistakes made along the way, and this has added to the confusion, Joe Offer entered into public discussion/comment with Shambles, which he should never have done. Known clones have said they'd be happy to see him gone, which they shouldn't have done. All clones should be anonymous, with the possible exception of Joe Offer as a conduit for liaising with Catters in private. And no critical comments should be added to posts by clones EVER! Informative additions only allowed!
However we are where we are, and there is no going back, so perhaps we should all keep schtum for a bit while people cool down.
Sorry if this is a bit long and perhaps not the polished polemic I would aspire to, but I hope that it clarifies some of my thoughts.
Giok