BS: Where are we now?

Subject: BS: Where are we now?
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 03 May 06 - 12:27 AM

Where are we now?


There are a lot of things that I will touch on so please bear with me. I've been away for a while but pop in from time to time to check out the mood and it has seemed to be business as usual from everyone here.

Amos is still spouting his usual liberal sources and trying to justify his existence by using big words.

Bobert is still trying to use class warfare to make himself not feel guilty for doing pretty well in life when others don't have it as well as he does.

sIx, Ebbie, Donuel, and the rest of the gang are still striving to make names for themselves by regurgitating the rantings of the two above and continue worshipping the words of Pelosi, Reid, Clinton and the usual gang of liberals.

Martin, the sports lover, is still trying to show how all of their circular arguments are exactly that.

BB is still using everyday logic and common sense to live his life and enjoys using relevant examples to bury the rantings of some here.

So in other words....

I haven't missed much. But what are the hot topics today that still gets everyone's blood to boil?

Immigration, War on Terror, Oil and Gas prices, upcoming elections.

Here's my take on each one.



Immigration

It seems as if there are several issues on this topic. 1st is the fact that we already have so many illegal aliens and the number is steadily increasing. On the flip side, if the government would just enforce the laws that are on the books then the issue wouldn't be what it is now. Let's enforce the existing laws before we go and try to make new ones.
This is something that really gets my goat about the Bush administration. The man, in an effort not to offend anyone, is catering to people that can't even vote for him. He's bending to people who have no respect for the laws that are on the books in the first place. Let's get the agents needed into place, then construct a fence and then round up the illegals and get them back to where they came from. This solution breaks no existing laws and even does something to prevent the permeable border that currently exists.
It doesn't matter that these people are doing jobs that no one else wants to do.
It doesn't matter that they are paying some of the taxes that our local and state governments collect.
It doesn't matter if they've been here for years and have become accustomed to the American way of life.
What matters is that they are breaking the law that currently exists and they must be caught and punished. If the punishment is going back to the country from which they came, then so be it. It's the law. I saw in another thread where someone had mentioned the Air Traffic controllers strike in the eighties. Reagan didn't fire the ATC's to bust the union. He fired the ATC's because they broke the law. (The busting of the union was more or less a fringe benefit.)
I mean, if we're gonna have the laws then let's enforce them. It may make the tree hugging environmentalists happy to know that a tree was killed for a piece of paper so that a law could be written that would actually be enforced.



War on Terror

What can I say about this that hasn't already been said? If we need to do anything different then we need to send more troops. I say this being the uncle of a marine currently serving in Iraq. He called to last week to inform me that one of his close buddies was killed by an IED and that another one of his buddies was severely injured in the same attack. Does he think that he needs to be home with his new wife?
He wants to be home with his new wife but he knows that he needs to be in Iraq to complete the job that his government has asked him to do.
I'm also the father of a 17 year old son who just enlisted into the US Army. His job? Infantry. Does this make me change my mind about the war and why we're there? NO. As a matter of fact, it boosts my belief in that why we're there is a good thing. In fact, my son believes that we should be there and knows why we should be there doing what we are doing. He's only 17 and should be looking at colleges and chasing high school girls. By him enlisting and about to enter basic training shows me that even our kids are listening and knowing what needs to be done and most importantly, have the courage to stand up and say "I want to make a difference." And actually doing it instead of throwing around useless, tired, 35 year old opinions on a blues music message board.
We have the most technologically advanced military in the world. We should have the troops in place to take advantage of that fact and overwhelmingly take the victory instead of waiting for it to happen by the people who have known no rule but that of a ruthless, murderous dictator for the past 40 years. Take the complete victory, show the new people what needs to be done and provide security while they do it, then come home. We have only taken the victory of getting Saddam out. We stopped just about a month or two too soon in my opinion.



Oil and Gas prices

Get off of big oil's back. Afterall, if we take back the $400 million retirement package, how much is it going to save us? And for how long?
Oil and Gas are traded on the open market. The market drives those prices. When the market gets rattled by the constant sabre rattling of Mr Goofy Hothead of Iran then the price will go up in preparation of tighter oil supplies. Iran is, afterall, the fourth largest supplier in the world. Let's open up new sources for drilling. Let's start up some of the old wells that are dotting the landscape of the southwest. Let's drill off of Florida's coast. China and Cuba are. Let's drill up and down the west coast. Let's drill in ANWR. Let's build more refineries so we can get more product to the consumer. Let's build more Nuclear power plants so we can ease the demand for oil and coal.
Demand is up. Oil companies are selling more inventory. It's only common sense that their profits will increase. That's the beauty of being in business. You sell more, you make more.
Sitting back and bitching about it is doing absolutely nothing. The controls set in motion by the democratically controlled house and senate in the thirty plus years prior to the '94 republican takeover is what got us into this mess. The missing spine of the Republican majority is what's keeping us there now.


Upcoming elections

Attention all liberals: Bush is not running again. There. Relax and take a deep breath. Stop bitching and whining about what he is doing and start offering genuine alternative solutions. That's the only way to get back in power. The day are over where you can get back into office by saying " He's doing a bad job. He's no good." It's been tried in the presidential races the last two times and the congressional races since '94. Where has it gotten you? A growing republican majority each and every time. Stop with the same arguments. It's time for action.

You game?
Bring it on.

Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: michaelr
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:33 AM

Hubby for president!

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:36 AM

Until the moneyed people want illegal immigration to be shut down it will not. There is practically NO ONE cheaper (meaner, in the UK) than the seriously rich.
Do you have any concept of what our border looks like?

"We have the most technologically advanced military in the world." Susu's H Yes. And currently there is no one in the world who can fight us on that basis. However, there are a hundred nations that could wage a guerilla war, a war in which we can only play catch up.

"We should have the troops in place to take advantage of that fact and overwhelmingly take the victory instead of waiting for it to happen by the people who have known no rule but that of a ruthless, murderous dictator for the past 40 years." Susu's H. Remember what Dubya used to say about nation building? The only way we can create our version of a democratic republic in Iraq is if we stay there forever. And even then it would be debatable.

Oh, and do your family think they are making the USA safer and more secure? ha

"Afterall, if we take back the $400 million retirement package, how much is it going to save us? " Susu's H You miss the point. This retirement package at this point is unique. How long do you think it will be before some other lucky fella demands the same?

"Let's drill off of Florida's coast." Susu's H Jeb doesn't want them.

May 2, 2006
Juneau Empire

Here is some of what Dubya could do:

*Tell the truth
*Prove your case with evidence, not preconceptions
*Regain control over the military industrial complex
*Help America get off its addiction to the colossal military spending that supports much of our economy, but ultimately wastes our wealth on the destruction of our loved ones and those of other countries;
*Don't spend taxpayer money if you don't believe in collecting taxes
*If you do spend it, spend it on improving the lives of those who pay taxes and the society they live in
*Get private money out of political campaigns so that the public pays for their campaigns and then politicians will work for the public rather than for private contributors
*Protect the environment
*Protect our constitution and its safeguards for justice and freedom
*Obey our laws and international laws
*Do not torture
*Don't be a hypocrite
*Don't invade other countries or subvert their governments unless we've been attacked by them
*Be aware of your own fallibility
*Listen to others, be inclusive in decision making; weigh decisions carefully –
*Worry about the consequences they will have on millions of people;
*Establish national health care

In brief, do things that are not on President Bush's agenda. I must be ignorant, but I'm trying to think of some positive things President Bush has done. Perhaps, a Bush believer would kindly send in a letter listing what they are.
Lisle Hebert

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: gnu
Date: 03 May 06 - 07:01 AM

I am so proud of the fact that I was among the unmentioned. Apparently, my new plan is working to some extent. And, now, I must return to where I was. Have fun with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 03 May 06 - 10:29 AM

"I must be ignorant, but I'm trying to think of some positive things President Bush has done. Perhaps, a Bush believer would kindly send in a letter listing what they are."

1. Cut taxes for EVERYBODY. If you got a rebate check of any size then you got a tax cut. If not, then you are not paying any income taxes.
2. Carried the war on terror to the terrorists.
3. Rid the world of a government run by the Taliban.
4. Rid a country of a murderous dictator and giving that government back to its people.
5. Strengthened our military after seeing it decimated for eight years.
6. Supported and pushed through the No Child Left Behind act so that our schools would be held more accountable in the teachings of our children.
7. His policies have caused the economy to grow for 17 consecutive quarters.
8. Because his policies caused the economy to grow then that makes it to where 2.1 million jobs have been created in the last year and the unemloyment rate, currently at 4.7%, is lower than the averages of the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's.
9. Provided prescription coverage for Medicare recipients.
10. Pushed through the Patriot act in order for ordinary Americans like you and me to continue to be protected from terrorists on our own soil.

Those are just the first ten that come to my mind. Now I don't think ignorant is the right word for you not knowing. I just think that you are filled with too much rage and hatred toward the man to bring yourself to admit that these things happened while he was in office. So what it looks like to me is that it's ok to blame him for the bad stuff that happens but when good news comes down the pike that there is no way in hell he could be responsible for that. I consider that to be just a little one-sided and way too intellectually dishonest. Some would say that it makes one (you) lose all credibility and, quite frankly, makes some look like complete fools.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 06 - 10:50 AM

Your list, SH, is so porous it is positively lacy. But it ain't purty.

I neglected to show that all of MY list and his sum up was verbatim from Lisle, but I am in full agreement with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: bhb
Date: 03 May 06 - 10:59 AM

I thought this was for where do we live now?

Cheers,

bhb

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 May 06 - 12:03 PM

What a self serving bunch of tripe. This poster comes "back" and starts a thread as if anyone missed him, or cares what he thinks. Here's an idea. Instead of starting a self agrandizing thread, why not just post in one of the current threads on these topics.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 May 06 - 12:52 PM

Well said Mick!!

Susu's Hobby's abscence must have been overlooked by many here.
Personally I thought that someone had been using an air freshner.

Seems to have run out now :0(....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: number 6
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:03 PM

I agree with you on that Mick.

I just want to know who Pelosi, Reid, Clinton and the usual gang of liberals are. Are they like Layton, Chow, McDonough and the usual gang of New Democrats?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: alanabit
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:12 PM

As a former Tax Officer, I just want to point out the intrisinc absurdity of the phrase, "Tax Rebate". It is used so frequently, that some people really believe it is possible. A look in the dictionary should suffice. No further comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: jaze
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:06 PM

Somewhere I read the suggestion we should make Mexico our 51st state. This would solve the illegal immigrant problem, Mexico is our largest oil supplier, so that should help gas prices and we'd gain great resorts, and have a smaller southern border. Makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Kaleea
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:38 PM

The people of Mexico might not desire to governed by dubblepew bush, aka, "the decider."

I can just hear it now, "If Mexico is now our 51st state, then I can go down there & get some groovey drugs since they are now legal. Let's see, shall I begin with heroin or cocaine?"

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:38 PM

Jaze - Maybe Mexico doesn't want to become the 51st state.

Susu's Hubby - First you say, "What matters is that they are breaking the law that currently exists and they must be caught and punished. If the punishment is going back to the country from which they came, then so be it. It's the law."

Then you say, "...so that a law could be written that would actually be enforced."

What law could be written that is easier to enforce than the law that currently exists?

If the U.S. citizens that hire illegal immigrants at dirt wages wanted the law to be enforced, it would be enforced.

Trouble is, who would clean their toilets?

The U.S. economy could not prosper without the cheap labour of illegal immigrants.

The U.S. can't make illegal immigrants legal without paying them the same wages that U.S. citizens are entitled to.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 04 May 06 - 02:23 PM

Mick,

If you don't like it then don't post a reply. It's really as simple as that. I'm sorry that you can't understand that concept.

Dianavan,

Please re-read my message again. If you read carefully, the existing law and then the law quote later at the end are referring to the same law. I'm just taking a jab at the tree-huggers. It's called reading comprehension. Keep practicing. You'll get better at it. I promise.

So, now, was it my ideas or the things listed that Bush has accomplished considered as "tripe"?

If you are referring to my ideas, then ok, they're my own personal feelings. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I think that mine and a few others make the most common sense rather than others that I see here. As a matter of fact, I really don't see others opinions very often because it's all either whining about what Bush is doing or whining about what Bush has done. Bobert is one of the few who actually take the time to list other alternatives or opinions and actually attempt to back them up. I respect him for that. We may be on complete opposite ends of the spectrum but I still have a healthy dose of respect for his views. He's funny too!

To tell you the truth, I could care less about what people think about me or my ideas. But that doesn't mean that my ideas won't work.
In fact, I'd love it if somebody tried to explain why my ideas wouldn't work. My point is that the time for whining and complaining is over. The only way to move forward is to look to the ideas and to move on from there. Some may say, "this is only a music message board so why waste my time here talking about things that aren't going to change anyway." If you feel that way, then stop posting messages to the political threads.

All movements start somewhere. It might as well be here.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:41 PM

I see that bumper-sticker-mentality hubby is back to his usual crap... Must have gotten some RNC-bumper-stick-mentality-campaign-literature in the mail today...

What utter tripe...

I agree with others, Hubby... I you have anything of interest to add to thses isssues there plenty of ***existing*** threads for you to use to show off yer.....

....ahhhhhh.....

....bumper sticker mentality...

BTW, one all 4 issues you have parroted the RNC's propaganda/positions almost word for word...

Great job at indepnenent thought, pal...

As for what you had to say about me???




























Bite me!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 05:57 PM

Hey there hybby. welcome back with your common sense approach that is so refreshing.

It was good to see it upset the likes of big mick and bobert. there responses were nothing short of babbling.   the only movements that start with them are of the bowel variety.

grunt

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 May 06 - 06:25 PM

First of all, Martin, haha... Hubby doesn't upset me... I find him amusin'... Kinda like you... I'm sure Mick does, as well... Hubby is too much a characture to take seriously... Kinda like you.... You know, no real thoughts of his own...Kinda like you, Marty...

Secondly, I knew you couldn't stay away from yer scatelogical infactuations forever... Back to the Betty Ford Clinic for Marty...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 May 06 - 06:51 PM

"I've been away for a while but pop in from time to time to check out the mood and it has seemed to be business as usual from everyone here."

So, since you are convinced that no-one wants to 'see the light' and be converted to your 'correct' way of thought, why are you wasting your valuable time here, unless you are just trying to feed your martyr complex?


"Immigration"

"What matters is that they are breaking the law that currently exists and they must be caught and punished."

I agree totally and the simple answer to that IS

"if the government would just enforce the laws that are on the books then the issue wouldn't be what it is now."

BUT...

"The U.S. can't make illegal immigrants legal without paying them the same wages that U.S. citizens are entitled to. "

Of course it can - just make slavery legal again... the US has said 'sod off' to the UN and their human rights nonsense, so what's the problem?


"Oil and Gas prices"

To achieve enlightenment about the long term matter of fossil fuel resources, go suck on an empty straw. :-)


"Upcoming elections"

"The days are over where you can get back into office by saying ' He's doing a bad job. He's no good.' It's been tried in the presidential races the last two times and the congressional races since '94."

That didn't work for kicking Clinton out either, so the "lets smear everything with shit" approach was tried - was it 'Liberals' who were 'obsessed' then? :-)


"War on Terror"

I do believe that the more elderly are now eagerly being accepted for enlistment... when are you going to show us the sincerity of your alleged convictions?

"We have the most technologically advanced military in the world."

The US (with the most technologically advanced military in the world then) got its arse kicked in Vietnam, and (IMO) will do so again in Iraq now still with the most technologically advanced military in the world (it's difficult to defeat a bull ant nest with a sledge hammer - it doesn't stop the ants in the long term, you CAN pound the crap out of the nest if that makes you feel good, though!). There were Right Wing Nutters who wanted to use "The Bomb" then, and also those still who want to do the same thing now...

The reason WHY for the invertible arse kicking is arrogant refusal to stop fantasising about the self importance of the USA to 'the destiny of the world' - you are all privileged to be living thru a rerun of 'The Last Days of The Roman Empire - Part II'.



"Somewhere I read the suggestion we should make Mexico our 51st state."

Already been beaten to that by Australia, and the FTA (F@@@ The Aussies)!


"In fact, I'd love it if somebody tried to explain why my ideas wouldn't work."

The explanation is simply this:

The simplistic mind that only sees the world in a simple black and white way is incapable of understanding (and even wanting to understand) a more subtle way of thinking in shades of grey. It's pointless even trying to show a movie in colour if all you have is a B&W tv set.

"the time for whining and complaining is over. The only way to move forward is to look to the ideas and to move on from there."

I couldn't agree with you more... but for totally antagonistic reasons as you and I see things from different viewpoints - you are inside the aquarium, and I am outside it!


Oh, BTW, Susu's Hubby

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:28 PM

'common sense approach' ... ???

This thread is in the BS.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:32 PM

All movements start somewhere.

Your own blog might be a better place.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:34 PM

"All movements start somewhere."

Try Senna Pods.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:50 PM

My hat is off to you, Foolestroupe, for even takin' the time to try yet again to get Hubby to, ahhhhhh, friggin' think and stop with the parrotin' of simplistic solutions to complex problems...

I've purdy much given up becuase Hubby in not capable of arguing a position beyond what will fir on a bumper sticker yet...

... he attacks me for being, ahhhh, friggin' successfull in life???

Ummmm, folks ain't successful in life without either being handed a large fortune to turn into a smaller one or working their butts off and being able to get along in their communities... No one ever gave me a danged thing... I worked my way thru college and everything I've gained came from hard ass work... I worked 20 straight years without a single vacation, other than 3day weekends... And those were 6 day weeks...

So, yeah, I have a great respect for folks who work hard and that, unfortunately, describes those at the lower end of the economic spectrum... Do I feel guilt??? Heck, no, I don't!!! Do I feel that the rich are on the gravey train??? Heck, yeah, I do!!! That ain't playin' no class-card... That's jus' the way it is... Yeah, I'd be willin' to pay more taxes it the dough were goin' to actaully trickle down and programs like Medicare and Social Security would be shored up... But to taxed so that Halliburton can make more dough is nuthin' but criminal!!! That playin' tghe class card??? Nah, jus' the way this ol' hillbilly sees it...

Meanwhile, Hubby, the "Bite me" comment holds... You have no right, given yer simple mind, to attack anyone, which is jus' about everyone, for being smarter than you...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: dianavan
Date: 04 May 06 - 08:33 PM

So hubby, if you are talking about the same immigration law and it can be enforced, why hasn't it been enforced?

Maybe its because Anaheim would go bankrupt without that cheap Mexican labour that they bus into the city every morning.

Maybe its because the fruit wouldn't get picked and would rot and the whole industry would go belly up.

Maybe its because those Calif. blondes might break a nail if they had to clean their own houses.

Sorry, hubby, I missed your "jab". I really don't think immigrants and tree-huggers have much to do with each other. I'd work on your comedy routine if I were you.

Don't think for a minute all of those illegal immigrants will gain automatic citizenship. If they were U.S. citizens, they would have to be paid minimum wage.

No, hubby, its easier to pay them peanuts and treat them like dirt.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 08:41 PM

I agree, dianavan. But no one is forcing them to work cheap. That goes with the territory of poor education, poor communication skills, and poor skills in general.

Want to get away from that? Try to better yourself like immigrants of the past have. Go to night school and learn English. Learn a trade. Take classes on American laws and culture.

Or settle to clean up tables or wash cars for whatever the market will bear.

Don't give them automatic citizenship. Make them earn that right!

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 08:43 PM

bobert, I find hubby's answers to have some fine thought in them.

I certainly can't take seriously anything you say from someone who admits to smoking a lot of pot and with his own son. Last I checked, that was still illegal. At worst case, it's quite pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:13 PM

Yeah, Marty, you would indeed think that Hubby's answers have some "fine thought to them" because you are a carbon copy politically as Hubby... No real answers from either of you... Just somethin' that both you read off a bumper sticker on Bubba's pickup truck...

As fir my son??? He would also kick yer Dean Martin Hootenany butt in a battle of the bands...

No brag, just pure ever lovin' fact!!!

But, hey, always fun messin' wid ya even if you don't have a real clue about complex issues....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:17 PM

After perusing this here thread, I don't know quite where (or who) we are, but on the whole, I'd rather be in Philadephia.

E.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:22 PM

Hubby and Marty ARE the same person. Loopie rocks rides again!

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Baltimore & Ohio Conductor
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:36 PM

ALL ABOARD, B&O service from Jersey City to Philadelphia now departing on track 3.

ALL ABOARD, B&O service from Jersy City to Philadelphia now departing on track 3.

ALLLLLL AAAAAABOARD!

WHEWWWW, WHEWWWWWW, WHEWWWWWW

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Inspector Clouseau
Date: 04 May 06 - 09:48 PM

Guest. I have arrived at the same conclusion. After some investigation into this thread and others in the archives I have deduced that Monsieur Marteen Geebson and Suzzi's Husband are tha same person. Indeeed they are. It is quite simple if you compare thee wording in Marteen's posts to those of Soozies Husband, you will see they are exactly the same.

Now, if you will excuse me I have a train to catch.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:07 PM

If yer goin' on to Chicago
Better get on, get on her quick
Yeah, if yer goin' on to Chicago
Better get on her quick
'Cause the Empire State Express
Is where you get yer business fixed...

(BTW, doesn't Martin live in Chicago???...)

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,The Big B&O Steam Engine
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:13 PM

Chicago is where he says he lives.

Chugga Chugga Chugga Chugga

But we aint goin to the Windy City

Chugga Chugga Chugga Chugga

WHEWWWW, WHEWWWWWW, WHEWWWWWW

We're goin ta Philadelphia my friend

Chugga Chugga Chugga

The City of Brotherly Love!!!

WHEWWWW, WHEEEEEEEEEWWWWWW, WHEEEEEWWWWWW

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:19 PM

If Ronald didn't take on the Air Traffic Controllers to bust that union, he surely did it because, since they were a wimpy white collar union, he was pretty damn sure they'd never find the wherewith-all to effectively mount a proper response. Not being street fighters, they didn't have a clue!

Again, I will say again that it was this small symbolic thread being snagged that started the big tapestry that was the labor movement in the U.S.A. to begin to unravel.

Of course, there are many factors in this unravelling. The above, combined with shipping a large chunk of the previously union jobs over yonder, automatically caused a diminishing of unions solidarity and power. Obviously, any union need jobs in place to exist.

The immigrants could, if things go wrong--or right (depending on your point of view), be a new grass roots form of Labor Union that will make organized labor look like an outdated group of pikers. ---- And it is NOT a matter of what is LEGAL (or illegal); it is simply a matter of what is right and wrong.

Ant Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 06 - 11:38 PM

Yep, I love in Chicago, bobert, home of the blues. Even though I don't waste my time singing and playing that repitious stuff, I would say I know more about it than you and your drugged out kid put together.

You and your kid need to pay another visit to your dope dealer. Keep him in the money and both your heads in the clouds as well as up each other's ass. Then you can pretend you know about heavy topics, even though you can't remember what you said 5 minutes ago.

Chicago is world class, man. Longtime home of the blues and great folk music. Hell, even Art Thieme knows that. And you wouldn't want to tell him he's wrong about that, would you?

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: redsnapper
Date: 05 May 06 - 03:47 AM

Chicago HOME of the blues MG? What planet do you live on?

Sure there's some fine electrified blues there and I've done the clubs but the blues was born elsewhere man.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: redsnapper
Date: 05 May 06 - 03:59 AM

Susu's Hubby,

Why are you regurgitating here what I can read for myself on Fox News anytime and wasting valuable bandwidth?

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 May 06 - 11:36 AM

Any kid at the young age of 17 should be looking at a college or university to continue to educate themselves, not entering a frat house for the "DUMBED DOWN". In a house hold where the son's father figure supports armed aggression & blind patriotism & where following the dictated government/military norms are the standards (without question)to follow without any educated (at 17 how can you say he's educated) reasoning, it's a logical choice for him to fore go his futher enlightening. God have mercy on you if your son dies needlessly & you realize that you've lead him to an early grave because you didn't raise him to think for himself but to follow,,,,,,,in your foolish, blind footsteps.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 05 May 06 - 11:44 AM

Ressnapper, you smell like a fish and think like one.

Chicago is one of the major homes of the blues, perhaps not the only home. Esxcuse me, electrified blues you nitpicker. the way it should be played.

Where do you live? Underwater?

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: redsnapper
Date: 05 May 06 - 11:49 AM

Well I don't live up my own ass like you Gibson.

Predictable crap from the master of it.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Baltimore & Ohio Conductor
Date: 05 May 06 - 12:02 PM

ALL ABOARD, B&O service from Philadelphia to Greenville Mississippi now departing on track 4.

ALL ABOARD, B&O service from Philadelphia to Greenville Mississippi now departing on track 4.

Home of the real Blues.

ALLLLLL AAAAAABOARD!

WHEWWWW, WHEWWWWWW, WHEWWWWWW

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 05 May 06 - 12:39 PM

No, red Snapper. somebody else probably lives up your ass.

Philadelphis is home to cheese steak and not much else.

greenville, Mississipi is probably home to a Wal-Mart.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Grab
Date: 05 May 06 - 12:40 PM

In fact, my son believes that we should be there and knows why we should be there doing what we are doing.

Does that mean all those posters saying "Are you in a 9/11 state of mind?"

If he truly believes that he's going over there to do the best for the people of Iraq, then full marks to him. But if he thinks he's over there to chase al-Qaeda, then he's been conned.

That's what many of us are unhappy about. Take on Saddam for being an evil murdering bastard - that's just fine with me. But to lie about the reasons for going in there (WMD and al-Qaeda links, in case you'd forgotten, both of which were proved to be false, and both of which the administrations of the US and UK were proved to know were false), that's bullshit. And to go in there with no plan of how to rebuild the country afterwards, well that's just criminal. If you think Bush and co had a plan for rebuilding Iraq afterwards, I suggest you check any news article on the subject (even Fox) and think again.

And by the same token, if the US wants to be the global policeman then that's fine by me. If the UK wants to help out, that's also fine. But policemen are bound by laws (Miranda in the US), which they're not allowed to break either. That means the Global Policeman needs to follow the Geneva Convention to the letter. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and "extraordinary rendition" make it pretty damn clear that ain't happening. If the "policeman" doesn't follow the law, then they're not a policeman, they're just another criminal bully.

(You think everyone in Guantanamo Bay was there for a good reason, then remember the four Brits who were held for 3 years without trial, of which two had never even been to Afghanistan.)

Oil and gas, market forces is fine. But do you want those market forces to shit all over the environment? Check out Bush's actions in sanctioning drilling in Alaska. Think that's going to be run extra-carefully so there's no spills? Think again - there's *already* been spills around ultra-sensitive caribou breeding grounds, and we're not even two years into it. Maybe you don't think it matters that animals get driven to extinction to let you drive your car, but the rest of the world begs to differ.

Then there's global warming, Kyoto and generally any failure to do anything about a problem that's staring America in the face. When it gets to the point where individual states are issuing laws *countermanding* the laws issued by federal government, then things are getting pretty damn sick.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Baltimore & Ohio Conductor
Date: 05 May 06 - 12:50 PM

Sorry Mister Martin Gibson. Your on the wrong train. If you want to go to the home of Walmart, you should be on the train to Bentonville Arkansas. We're gonna have to put you off this train at the next stop. Sorry, but you should have known better.


WHEWWWW, WHEWWWWWW, WHEWWWWWW

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: kendall
Date: 05 May 06 - 12:55 PM

I'll see your stupid bastard, and raise you one asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 05 May 06 - 07:31 PM

Well, Chicago is and was a grand place to hear the blues. Black or white, now or back then when it got plugged in so it could be heard over the sounds of bottles breaking against folks' skulls. Growing up there was a wonder hearing those sounds all over town. Bloomfield, Butterfield, Elvin Bishop, Corky and Jim, Charlie Musselwhite---even old Ira Kamen and Warren Lemming and Nate Herman. Muddy and Wolf, both Little and Big Walter, both Sonny Boy Williamsons, Buddy Guy, Jimmy Cotton, Hubert Sumlin, Jim Brewer, Bill Broonzy, Arvella Gray, Elmore James --- and a hundred more.---Martin is right. (I guess we all knew that!! ;-) What I really meant to say is that "Martin is correct."

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:03 PM

"But no one is forcing them to work cheap."

Du-oh! They ran away from a place where they were starving, and could clearly se that there was no future to a place that they believed al the publicly spouted bullshit about 'Send me your poor, etc - the Land of the Free, etc - the Land of Opportunity, etc' to discover that they end up in a place where they were lied to, and that if they don't work cheap, they will starve there too - but the FACT is that if they work the system and don't rock the boat, they will survive, and their children have a chance to do much better than they, or their children could ever have done where they ran away from!

They also KNOW, as it has been proved for decades, that if they do this, their greedy rich employers will not dob them in - which they will do in a flash if they rock the boat, and don't grovel. And they have known for decades, that no-one is interested in tracking them down if they don't rock the boat - and that they can, if they are not too exhausted, that they can learn English, and attend education programs for themselves too. Their children born in the USA are citizens and are dragged off into schools for their own good as nobody cares if their parents are 'illegals'.

Of course the poor bastards HAVE to work cheap, idiot!!! It's called 'voluntary slavery', and has been going on for centuries!

Yer right! They 'force' themselves!!!

Bloody idiot! You actually made more sense when you were just a potty mouth!

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:07 PM

"So in other words....

I haven't missed much"

Were you gone?

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:28 PM

Art,

Depends on what type of blues you want??? Sure, there were a few bluesmen livin' in Chicago when the blues bacame popular in the 20's but keep in mind that many of those folks had migrated north to get outta the cotton plantations...

Most of the folks that we now remember as the heavy weights of the blues, however, lived in or around the Delta in Mississippi: Son House, Robert Johnson, Tommy Johnson, Johnny Shines, Willie Brown, Willie Dixon, Muddy Waters... Yeah, these folks were blazing the trail for the "2nd generation" of blues players, of which you named a few...

Sorry, just couldn't let that statement stand, my friend, because it is is not an accurate accounting of the history of blues music...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:33 PM

Damn! I HATE having to agree with Bobert!

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:33 PM

"Ridin' on that train,
Gonna go insane..."

-- Hitchcock Railway, Joe Cocker

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:36 PM

Thanks for helping us understand Marty, Elmer Fudd!

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:51 PM

Sh*t happens, bb...

But not to fear, I just lit off a stink bomb in yer other thread...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: number 6
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:57 PM

A per the blues ... depends what kind ya like ... Chicago Blues or the historical Delta Blues ... personally I'm with Bobert on this one.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:07 AM

Because of Mudcat hairballs, I've not been able to respond to "Hubby"

But I just wanted to say --please, Bobert and you other guys, don't be hard on Hubby. In fact, Hubby, more power to you. Please organize as many as you can to fight the idea of a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. The more you and the other Bushites tear each other apart, the better for the rest of us. Please be sure to only vote for somebody who promises you a fence between the US and Mexico--you know it's the only way to preserve our way of life.. That way, lots of Bushites will lose--and the country will gain.

But if the idea of starting to think might, by some chance, ever appeal to you, you might consider that without a path to citizenship, the 11 million illegals will never come out of the shadows.   Would you? I wouldn't.   And as for hiring enough INS agents to track down all illegals, that would be perfect for the budget, already running a huge deficit, as well as a wonderful illustration of your small-government philosophy.   Brilliant. I must compliment you. You are indeed a true conservative---or maybe not.,

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:17 AM

Folks, I was talking about Chicago. I wasn't talking about the whole Goddamn history of the blues. The scene IN Chicago!!!---Just mother- freakin' Chicago!!!! It was wonderful when I was young. That's all I was saying!!! That is what I was agreeing with Martin about! So there...!!!

Of course the acoustic blues that Sam Charters and others called the Country Blues were wonderful and were FIRST. Shit, I am not a moron about blues. For heaven's sake, those early guys (and some gals too) were the best --- all the way from Charlie Patton and Son H. and Bar-b-q Bob and everyone. I own all their music and everyone else mentioned here---and I listen to it whenever I can. I prefer it by far to the over-the-top electric stuff. Sure, they all came to Chicago to get away from from poverty, and the hookworms, and pickin' cotton, and too much cholesterol in their diets, and building levees, and racism, and Southern attitudes, and, as Walter Vinson of the Mississippi Sheiks told me personally when I tape recorded him in Chicago in the early '60s, "Art, I left there to get away from smellin' mule farts!!" -- He was talking about walking behind the mule plowing row after row in one hundred and ten degree heat, and breaking up the clods of dirt with his two bare feet. It was all of the above -- and what you said too!

But Chicago is Chicago--and it was just cool as all hell to grow up in that place then.

Love,

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 May 06 - 10:58 AM

"What I really meant to say is that "Martin is correct."

Art


Thank you, Art. As natives, we just know. It almost goes without saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 May 06 - 11:09 AM

Well said, Art. I couldn't figure out why folks were pickin' nits when all you said was it was great and exciting to be around Chicago during those times. I didn't hear Martin say it was invented there, just that he thought it the home of the blues. I think he is wrong on that contention, but no one can deny that "Chicago Blues" is a major force in the world of Blues music.

BTW, have you still got a copy of your recording of Vinson? I'll pay.

Love ya,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 May 06 - 11:26 AM

It is one major home of the blues, Big Mick. It is one of the LEADING and major homes of blues music.

You twist things around, Big Mick. and you now try to kiss up to Art to distract the fact that he agreed with me.

I know you don't like me, and the feeling is sure quite mutual. But I do not abuse my privilege as a clone to make that point as I am not one.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 May 06 - 11:53 AM

Whooee! Mister Art! You taught me something new. Them blues guitarists came north because they had high cholesterol and wanted them northern pigs knuckle, ox-tail soup, fried chicken and scrapple.. :-)

Walk into any soul food store and you're back down south... :-)

Good to see you, buddy!

I'm more into sole food these days.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:34 PM

You mean you eat your shoe?

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:10 PM

If Chicago was the second home to the Blues, which I believe it was. like Art says, I just want you all to know that Boston was their vacation spot. I grew up on the same menue. The blues were a constent in Boston. Quite a few of the guys I grew up with ended up playing in bands with Muddy Waters, BB King & the whiter side bands. At 17 I could get into the Jazz Workshop & Pall's Mall which hosted an array of top blues & Jazz musicians, there were other clubs (can't remember their names) & they hosted blues & 60's phychedelic. On one hand you'd catch the Jefferson Airplane or Cream, next there's be Willie Dixion, John Lee Hooker, Big Mama Thorthan(sp?), Buddy Guy or Junior Wells, Muddy Waters & all the others. Sure Chicago was their second home but when they wanted to have some real fun & blow off steam they'd come to "Boston the Vaction Home of the Blues". I know what you mean Art, "wasn't that a time".
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: redsnapper
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:15 PM

No I live in the Shedd Martin and I've seen your ugly mug gawping through the glass! Mississippi is the HOME of the blues... such as you know anything about the subject.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 May 06 - 03:10 PM

Red Snbapper,
I lived in Oregon once, and you were delicious when prepared right.

Mick,
I will contact you by e-mail. It's as good as done.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 May 06 - 10:46 PM

Martin, you misread my intention. I acknowledge that Art agreed with you, and for what it is worth I agree with most of what you have said on this subject. I just disagree on your statement that Chicago is the home of the blues. But it is a major, maybe THE major, center of blues music.

I am not sure how I abused my status as a moderator by that post. Drop me a line and explain it to me.

BTW, I don't dislike you. I don't know you well enough to dislike you. I dislike it when you are abusive. In fact I detest it. But when the subject is one we are discussing, I am respectful of your knowledge.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 06 - 08:02 AM

I'm not.

He hasn't earned my respect for anything I've seen him spout here yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: number 6
Date: 07 May 06 - 11:50 PM

Where are we now ??

Right back to where it started.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Azizi
Date: 08 May 06 - 12:15 AM

And the beat goes on.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 May 06 - 12:15 AM

Where are we now? Simple. We are teetering on the cusp of a whole new age in human development, one that will revolutionize everything and lead us into an era of peace, joy, and prosperity.

It will be called the... *** Age of Shatner ***

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: number 6
Date: 08 May 06 - 12:28 AM

More like the *** Age of Sh$tner***

... and the beat goes on ... and on, and on, and on ....

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Kweku
Date: 08 May 06 - 11:17 AM

sure don't allow people into your country like that.makes Mugabe's program child's play.


clean your house first before you do so for your neighbour.

Subject: RE: BS: Where are we now?
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 May 06 - 01:11 PM

Foolestroupe, it probably started that I have no respect for you.

I mean, you can dish it out, but you take it like a little whining 8 year old girl.

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!