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BS: Marshalls and sherriffs

Big Al Whittle 09 May 06 - 02:37 PM
number 6 09 May 06 - 02:38 PM
Rapparee 09 May 06 - 02:41 PM
Amos 09 May 06 - 02:53 PM
Rapparee 09 May 06 - 03:04 PM
jeffp 09 May 06 - 03:04 PM
Rapparee 09 May 06 - 03:07 PM
catspaw49 09 May 06 - 03:11 PM
gnu 09 May 06 - 03:11 PM
The Shambles 09 May 06 - 03:14 PM
Ebbie 09 May 06 - 03:36 PM
Joe Offer 09 May 06 - 03:37 PM
M.Ted 09 May 06 - 04:15 PM
number 6 09 May 06 - 04:46 PM
Rabbi-Sol 09 May 06 - 05:22 PM
Uncle_DaveO 09 May 06 - 07:50 PM
number 6 09 May 06 - 10:07 PM
Amos 09 May 06 - 10:12 PM
number 6 09 May 06 - 10:30 PM
dianavan 10 May 06 - 03:04 AM
Joe Offer 10 May 06 - 04:20 AM
GUEST,weelittle drummer 10 May 06 - 03:32 PM
Stilly River Sage 10 May 06 - 04:14 PM
number 6 10 May 06 - 04:32 PM
Janie 10 May 06 - 05:20 PM
The Fooles Troupe 11 May 06 - 07:33 AM
Stilly River Sage 11 May 06 - 11:42 AM
Becca72 11 May 06 - 01:24 PM
catspaw49 11 May 06 - 01:29 PM
The Fooles Troupe 12 May 06 - 08:24 AM
Kaleea 12 May 06 - 08:21 PM
Uncle_DaveO 13 May 06 - 05:17 PM
Uncle_DaveO 13 May 06 - 05:22 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 May 06 - 05:32 PM
bobad 13 May 06 - 05:59 PM
mrdux 14 May 06 - 02:34 AM
mrdux 14 May 06 - 02:38 AM

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Subject: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 May 06 - 02:37 PM

what's the difference?


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: number 6
Date: 09 May 06 - 02:38 PM

State = Marshall
City/town = sheriff

correct me if I'm wrong

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 06 - 02:41 PM

In the US, the sheriff is usually the law enforcer for the county; towns and cities have their own police force. The marshal could be the term for the town police, especially in small towns, but this title is nearly obsolete -- and many small towns now get their police protection from either the sheriff's office or the state police. Usually this title is now reserved for members of the US Marshals Service.


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 06 - 02:53 PM

They both derive from terminology of the Middle Ages -- marechal, in France, and sheriff, in England. There is no cut and dried defintiion of each term, as it depends on the local town and county government's evolution. In general, Rapaire (as usual) has pinned the tail on the donkey.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 06 - 03:04 PM

Now figure out the differences between BATF, FBI, the Secret Service, the US Marshals, the Tribal Police, the Texas Rangers and the Texas Highway Patrol, DEA, the railroad police, the shore patrol, the military police, the air police, BIA police, and the police authority of Customs, the Coast Guard, campus cops, and about a million other police agencies.

Then we can take a flier at various non-police security services....


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: jeffp
Date: 09 May 06 - 03:04 PM

In Maryland, law enforcement is usually handled by Police departments, while delivery of subpoenas, etc. is the function of the Sheriff's department.


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 06 - 03:07 PM

Dang! I forget the fire investigators!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 May 06 - 03:11 PM

I shot the Sheriff, but I did not shoot the deputy.........I stuffed a mango up his ass instead.......

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: gnu
Date: 09 May 06 - 03:11 PM

The Marshall helps Miss Kitty defend her land from being taken over by the guys from the bad ranch up over the hill in the next valley.

The Sheriff helps the railroad and the government get Miss Kitty's land for the public good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 May 06 - 03:14 PM

The guns are bigger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 06 - 03:36 PM

I don't often dream of Mudcatters but in a dream last night, Amos, I dreamt that you were there and you kept using Latin words and phrases. I asked you how long you had studied it and had you taken it in college and high school.

You said that you "came late to it" and then said you had studied it for seven years.

Would you amplify on that?

:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshals and sheriffs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 May 06 - 03:37 PM

In the U.S., the U.S. Marshals Service is part of the U.S. Department of Justice, which is headed by the U.S. Attorney General. The marshals serve primarily as officers of the court, and one marshal is appointed for each U.S. Court District. The marshal has a team of deputy marshals who work as court bailiffs and court security officers, serve court warrants to apprehend lawbreakers, and perform other court-directed duties. The marshals are at the receiving end of court orders, and they are responsible for executing court orders. Other U.S. law enforcement agencies are more in the business of proposing court action.
Local marshals are rare in most U.S. jurisdictions, but there are a few. Generally, they are officers of the court.

In general, sheriffs are officers of county governments in the U.S. - but here in California, sheriff's officers usually also serve as officers of the county courts, working as bailiffs and serving warrants.

In most California counties, the sheriff is also the chief correctional officer, operating the county jail.

Every state has a different system of courts and law enforcement and corrections, and many local jurisdictions within states have differences. As a federal investigator doing background investigations for security clearances and sensitive federal jobs, I had to get criminal and other records from a wide variety of state and local jurisdictions, and had to pretend to understand them all. It was an interesting challenge. After 25 years, I got so I could "fake it" pretty well.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 May 06 - 04:15 PM

On thing that no one has mentioned is that Federal Marshalls are often really big guys.

I once received a traffic ticket, unfairly, I thought, so I checked the "I plead not guilty and request a trial" box.

A couple months later, after I had forgotten the whole thing, slightly after dark, I pulled into my long, country driveway, only to find myself bathed in searchlights and being addressed through a bullhorn. I had not read my ticket carefully, and neglected to remit bond equal to the the fine(about $50, at the time), and was under arrest.

Two very large individuals approached, and explained why I had been singled out for the extremely cinematic honors. They explained that there was a new court, especially set up for minor traffic infractions, with a new judge, who had hoped for a much more important appointment.

They were friendly guys, and we had them in for coffee, and chatted about the business of Marshalling. As Joe alludes to above, it involves giving things to people who don't really want them, and often requires taking them places that they don't really want to go. Size, it develops, is an advantage in these situations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: number 6
Date: 09 May 06 - 04:46 PM

Marshall Matt Dillon was a big guy come to think of it.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 09 May 06 - 05:22 PM

New York City had a special corps of Marshalls to collect debts and perform evictions. These jobs were given out as political patronage to the party faithful. They would keep a percentage of everything they collected.
                                        SOL ZELLER


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 May 06 - 07:50 PM

Let me indulge in a pet peeve and pedantism here:

The law enforcement officer of whom we speak ALWAYS has only one L; it's spelled "marshal", with one L.

"Marshall", so spelled, is a man's given name, or a family name.

Yeah, I guess there could be a "Marshal Marshall", if a member of that clan went into law enforcement.


As to the other officer, it's "sheriff", with ONE R and two Fs.
It refers back to the medieval usage, of the Reeve, a high officer representing the King's peace in a given area. The Reeve for a shire was the "shire Reeve", which became our word "sheriff".

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: number 6
Date: 09 May 06 - 10:07 PM

Thanks for the correction Dave.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 06 - 10:12 PM

Marshal (also spelled Marshall) is a word used in several official titles of various branches of society. The word derives from Old Germanic marah "horse" and scalc "servant", and originally meant "stable keeper". As marshals became betrusted members of the courts of Middle Ages Europe, the title grew in reputation. During the last few centuries, it has been used for the most elevated offices. The spelling of the name ("Marshall") is often confused with the spelling of the title ("Marshal").
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal

# Sheriff is both a political and a legal office held under English common law, Scots law or American common law, or the person who holds such office.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheriff

# The chief administrative and judicial officer of a shire. He collected taxes and forwarded them on to the Exchequer, and was also responsible for making sure that the King's table was well stocked.
www.renaissancemagazine.com/glossary/glossaryq-s.html

# The royal officer of a shire managing its judicial and financial affairs.
www.domesdaybook.co.uk/glossary.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: number 6
Date: 09 May 06 - 10:30 PM

Thank you for presenting the variant of the word marshal Amos.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: dianavan
Date: 10 May 06 - 03:04 AM

Marshal is a derivative of the word marshmallow. The big guys in the grey suits and the funny hats with stars on their chests. The ones who have bellys like marshmallows hanging over their belts and they strut. Thats a Marshal.

Sheriff, on the other hand, comes from the Arabic name Sherif.

Sherif was a Marshall who stuttered and so he called himself Sherif-f-f-f-f. That was abbreviated to Sheriff and so the name stuck in some parts. Other parts kept the name of Marshal for those guys who like to wear stars and strut.

Which ones ride the motorcycles? Thats the sheriff right? The Marshall has the fast car, right?

Actually I think that if you are busted, the Sheriff keeps it but the Marshall gives it back.

Oh, I'm so confused!


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 May 06 - 04:20 AM

Is that like Omar Sheriff, Diana?

And what TV series did Penny Marshall star in? I remember it was two women working in a brewery in Milwaukee, but I don't recall the costar or the name of the series....

But I believe that law enforcement marshals always spell it "marshal," and I think DaveO for setting the record straight.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: GUEST,weelittle drummer
Date: 10 May 06 - 03:32 PM

what always gets me confused is the Wyatt Earp story.

He was a deputy Marshall, but the town sherrif Johnny Behan didn't get on with him

Then Wyatt stood for election after the OK Corral business and he didn't get elected. At one stage he was a Deputy Marshall, being hunted by the Sherrif.

Complicated....


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 06 - 04:14 PM

Isn't Sherrif a brand of gelatin in Canada? I think Shatner did commercials for them.

You're all forgetting about Constables. They're part of that municipal/county mix down here. They are elected law enforcement officials who do a variety of things, and who, like the Fort Worth Marshals, serve papers on people (divorce papers, etc.) I think Constable districts are the same as the Justice of the Peace districts. Here in Texas, anyway.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: number 6
Date: 10 May 06 - 04:32 PM

Yes SRS ... you are correct, Sherff is a brand of gelatin here in Canada ... as whether Shatner did commercials for them ... I dunno, if he did, I would have immediately erased it from my memory.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Janie
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:20 PM

Yer all wrong. Marshal(l)s lead parades. Nearly always, their first names are 'Grand'.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 May 06 - 07:33 AM

Sheriffs exist in the Australian Legal System, a hangover from English Law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:42 AM

I grew up close enough to the border to watch Canadian and US television all my life, and in college (Western WA U in Bellingham) that was the only tv that came in well on antenna, so I remember seeing Canadian commercials. By the time I was in college Star Trek had already been and gone, and maybe Shatner was looking for a little support on the side. Perhaps Little Hawk will bring his encyclopedic knowlege of the man into this thread and give us an answer.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Becca72
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:24 PM

Joe, that would be Laverne & Shirley co-starring Cindy Williams...with 2 L's...


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:29 PM

Actually Penny took one of her L's as she didn't have enough for all of Laverne's clothes.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:24 AM

Those two certainly raised 'L'!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Kaleea
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:21 PM

2 of my great great uncles were U. S. Marshalls, except that way back when they were referred to as "Peace Officers" in them thar parts. They were appointed.
Now, when I lived in Maricopa County, Arizona (Phoenix), Sheriff Joe Arpaio was reelected time after time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:17 PM

There ARE no "US Marshalls". Nor were there. They are "US Marshals"!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:22 PM

Nor are there any US Roberts or US Freds.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:32 PM

So in Westerns who is top dog? Or is that purely dependent on who is the bigger star? Can a sheriff arrest a marshall or is it the other way round? Or is it one way when they are in town and the other when they are out of town?


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: bobad
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:59 PM

"There ARE no "US Marshalls"

But there was the US Marshall Islands so that is "technically" wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: mrdux
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:34 AM

during the last half of the 19th century, the municipal police chief in certain western u.s. jurisdictions -- including kansas -- was often known as the city or town marshal. wyatt earp was a deputy city marshal for wichita and assistant city marshal for dodge city.

around the same time, the chief law enforcement officer of the western territories was the territorial marshal. wyatt's brother virgil was assistant u.s. marshal for arizaona the territory of based in tombstone. virgil later became city marshal of tombstone, where he deputized brother wyatt for the purposes of the meeting at the o.k. corral. wyatt was briefly a deputy u.s marshal in early 1882.

my guess is that matt dillon was the city marshal of dodge city.

michael


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Subject: RE: BS: Marshalls and sherriffs
From: mrdux
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:38 AM

sorry about that. it should have read: "assistant u.s. marshal for arizona territory, based in tombstone."


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