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Subject: RE: BS: Film: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:58 PM Divis Sweeney the above post did not come in from the real DB. I will pm you the true identity of poster. Best regards J |
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Subject: RE: BS: Film: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:44 PM Hi GUEST DB Good chance I probably will ! So your wife and mother have confessed all to you ! I suppose to late to say sorry, but a man's needs are many ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Film: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST,DB Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:40 PM This evil "Divas Sweeney" should rot in hell - true scum! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:32 PM Just watched a programme there on Ulster television about the hired police hitman Haddock. Six ex detectives have come forward and stated that he was responsible for the murder of over 20 people. One said he arrested Haddock after two local people who saw the murder and name him, he wasn't masked. The ex detectives were told in the station by special branch to release him ! The UVF have killed 32 people since 1994, and not one person has been charged with any of these murders. The programme stated there was clear evidence of British collusion in twenty of these murders. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:22 PM Only hibernating. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 31 May 06 - 04:03 PM And Zebadee said "Time for Bed" |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST,Billy McKinley Date: 31 May 06 - 02:55 PM I wonder who ard? Charolotte ? Keith ? John ? or Looney tunes ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 31 May 06 - 02:24 PM Stigweard, Quite a few years ago the BBC did a series on the British Empire, for the India episode they had John Cameron the Scottish journalist write and narrate his account of the Raj and their doings in that part of the world. He referred to an incident in Afghanistan in which a large number of British troops were wiped out by the Afghans, John found after much research that this episode of the Afghan campaign in the [circa] 1850s was never seen in any history books. In my time in England I was amazed to find that very little was known of Englands affairs with her neighbouring island,in a recent University Challenge TV Programme, three simple questions on Irish geography went unanswered by the students. Nothing seems to have changed when we are confronted by some of the opinions on Ireland by various British `catters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Stu Date: 31 May 06 - 01:03 PM "His astonishment was, that none of them had heard of the Tans and their dirty deeds in Ireland, a hell of a lot more has been swept under the carpet from then (sic)." You don't know how true this is Ard, and films such as Loach's will hopefully open the eyes of the general populace in Britain to some of the oppression dished out in their name over the centuries (and still being in other parts of the world). Where I lived in England we never even did our own history in our O level lessons (early 80's), our exam board preferring social and economic history of the eighteenth - 20th centuries (when we were robbed of our lands by the Acts of Enclosure - we've all suffered under the Norman yoke on these Islands). There was no chance of finding out what happened in Ireland or any of the other places our predecessors stuck their oar into. Previous to secondary school, our history lessons pedalled the same old tripe. Cromwell was portrayed as a crusader of justice and defender of the common man, and the Empire was a force for good that never did any wrong etc. All complete twaddle of course, but that's the way we were brought up. When IRA bombs were going off in the city I lived near people were scared witless - there was no way of questioning the reason why this was happening - of the cause and effect so to speak. I know plenty of people who still hold strong views about the various protagonists in The Troubles which have not changed for decades because we were never given a different point of view. Just look at the reaction in the British press to the film and you will see what I mean - no attempt to see another side of the coin, to address the core issues because it was seen to be almost traitorous to critisise 'our boys' over there. Of course the situation is not that black and white as we all know now, but I find it disturbing that those involved in all sides of the conflict are still portrayed in such basic terms (interestingly, Loach has been critisised himself for portraying the British in the film as one-dimensional villans, which is an easy trap to fall into when represeting an enemy). I consider myself lucky. I came to view the situation differently because I love Irish traditional music and wanted to play it. Gradually I became familiar with some of the arguments from the other side of the fence, and I can say now my view has changed dramatically. This is due to folk music (from all our Island's traditions), which carries an honesty and fundamental truth film makers would do well to learn from, and which enables anyone to see more than the one-sided black and white viewpoints that some would like to make us all accept. stigWeard |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 31 May 06 - 05:50 AM Billy, Good to catch you here. You forget to give the posts that would make a liar of me in the other thread. Please do so or take back the slur. (Billy is an unusual name for a Republican. Do your friends call you King? ...'king Billy perhaps.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 31 May 06 - 05:05 AM Well Billy what else did you expect from Watters,the sour grapes are choking him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST,Billy McKinley Date: 30 May 06 - 09:03 PM SUCH A LOAD OF TWAT. Review: The Wind That Shakes The Barley By Darren Waters a well known supporter of British policy in Ireland BBC News entertainment reporter Ken Loach speaking at the Cannes film festival said The Wind That Shakes The Barley was a story he had to tell. Set in Ireland in the 1920s it recounts events that led to the formation of an independent Ireland and the creation of Northern Ireland. The Wind That Shakes The Barley The Wind That Shakes The Barley is set in 1920s Ireland Loach's aim is to cast his political eye on events that are rarely discussed in the UK and beyond and remain open wounds for many Irish citizens. Cillian Murphy plays Damien, a young man set to leave Ireland and become a doctor in London. But events overtake him. At the start of the film, Ireland remains an effective colony of the UK; with British soldiers stationed in the country. Damien witnesses the murder of a young friend, killed at the hands of brutal British soldiers because he would only give his name in Gaelic, and not in English. Determinedly political As he prepares to depart for London, soldiers attack a train driver because they have been told by unions not to carry British military personnel. Encouraged by friends to fight the British he enlists in a small cell of Irish republicans, part of the IRA. Paul Laverty's script is one-eyed, and unashamedly so. Loach and Laverty's aim is determinedly political - to show an occupied country which rises up to throw off the yoke of an invading army. It is a clear attempt to find resonance with events in Iraq, with the US in the role of the Empire clinging on to the past. Such lack of balance, however, results in a one-dimensional script. The British are depicted as cardboard cut-out thugs and the motivation for the protagonists is delivered with a heavy hand when a lighter touch is needed. The film works best when examining the emotional turbulence felt by ordinary Irish men and women when they have to turn to armed struggle and murder. In one scene the Irish Republican Army attacks a British troop convoy and many of the Republicans are visibly distressed with the deaths they have caused. But the power of the scene evaporates when the soldiers return home only to find British troops attacking an Irish farm and its female-only habitants as part of a search for IRA members. The Wind That Shakes The Barley The film heralded Ken Loach's first Palme d'Or win It clumsily absolves the characters of any guilt over their murderous actions and sets the tone for the subjective stance of the film. Fractious tensions Murphy handles his role well - and wrings out depth from his character that is not written down on the page. His sense of torture when forced to shoot an informer from his own ranks is both touching and the touchstone of the film. The supporting cast of Padraic Delaney, Liam Cunningham and Orla Fitzgerald is also very strong. The film loses its sense of purpose towards the end when Loach and Laverty examine the division within Irish republicanism that led to brother against brother and family against family. In one scene, characters reel off dull, political rhetoric. It was intended as a glimpse into the fractious tensions of the time but feels rather more like a party political broadcast. As one of several films at Cannes which dealt squarely with war - and specifically aimed to make connections with the war in Iraq and its aftermath - The Wind That Shakes The Barley was the most straight-forwardly political. Loach has lamented that the events of the 1920s in Ireland remain little known outside the country itself. The Palme d'Or win will ensure the film reaches a wider audience but it is disappointing that his Cannes win comes for one of his weaker films. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 29 May 06 - 05:15 PM If only ard another member could keep it to the film in question this time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 29 May 06 - 04:30 PM I see the film is to be released in Ireland on June 29th, so as this Thread heads over the horizon, a futher chapter can be added when we see the film. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 29 May 06 - 08:34 AM Got two pm's myself ard from members about the Tans. One had read up a bit on the internet the other asked what books I would advise to read to learn more. Great to see the repression highlighted in this film. Hope it's one of more to come from Ken. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 29 May 06 - 08:11 AM Well done Ken Loach a unanimous verdict from the Cannes jury, Irish actor Cillian Murphy was amazed to have so many English friends asking him for more information on the Black and Tans and their role in Ireland. His astonishment was, that none of them had heard of the Tans and their dirty deeds in Ireland, a hell of a lot more has been swept under the carpet from then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: freda underhill Date: 28 May 06 - 06:24 PM Like you, gnu, I'm an aussie of Irish (and scottish) descent, and grew up on a diet of music and stories, handed down over generations. My father was a wonderful singer and storyteller, and a wonderful man. Its interesting that Ken Loach has commented that The Wind That Shakes The Barley is a critique of today's war in Iraq. He has also said, "Our film is a little, a very little step in the British confronting their imperialist history. And maybe if we tell the truth about the past, maybe we tell the truth about the present." Palm d'Or at Cannes is no mean achievement - I look forward to seeing it. freda |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Leadfingers Date: 28 May 06 - 05:12 PM Well Ken Roach does at least make good films , wether you agree with the sentiments expressed or not ! This one has won the Palm d'Or at Cannes ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: gnu Date: 27 May 06 - 05:29 PM Ah... the dirge I sing most often. I heard it first sung by a lad of note when I could first hear as a babe in my crib. Ya know...I recall that songman, who shall remain nameless, saying, in a nutshell, and I paraphrase, radically, "God Bless England... for the last nine hundred years." Being a Canuck of Irish Descent, I know very little of any of this. I only know of the spirit of my forefathers who left Ireland five generations ago. I only know the songs they taught to me. From lullabies to fight songs. They were songs of humour and of sorrow. But, overall, they were all songs of spirit. The songs, the poetry, the prose, the dance... this is what I cherish. I am forever grateful that I know not of the strife... even though, that is why I am me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Tannywheeler Date: 27 May 06 - 05:15 PM This is a very sad song: boy and sweetheart are saying goodbye because he can't stand "foreign chains around us". He's going to "join the bold, united men while soft winds shake the barley." While they have an affectionate farewell a sniper shoots the girl, "...and on my breast in blood she died while soft winds shook the barley." He goes out for revenge, then lays "my true love's clay-cold corpse where I full-soon may follow. As 'round her grave I wander drear--noon, night, and morning early, with breaking heart whene'er I hear the wind that shakes the barley." Very sad report on some reasons why war & conquest are the wrong ways to relate to people. Belligerants attend...cease belligering. Tw |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 01:36 PM My new thread |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST,Bente Date: 27 May 06 - 01:20 PM So you will only answer to questions about the film ? you have had plenty to say about every other topic only the film ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 27 May 06 - 01:17 PM Keith in front of other members as my witness can I ask you these questions once again, simply answer them yes or no. What would you do if your country was invaded by another countries army. Would you rise up or lay down ? Have I not on more than one ocassion showed you that the IRA said sorry to it's victims for their campaign ? Have I not asked you to admit that the British army were guilty of murder of innocent people in Ireland ? Please Keith answer these simple three questions before more build up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 01:15 PM No i will not answer here unless it is about the film or that period up to WW2 Instead I will start a new thread. Here we go again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 27 May 06 - 01:07 PM Territorial soldier, enough said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 27 May 06 - 01:04 PM I am native, Boise, Idaho. Clearly you support the British remaining in Ireland and defend their crimes against it's people, please answer. Yeah I noticed to that you ignore the tricky questions. So why post if you only want it one way ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 01:00 PM Guest Bente, A lot of questions have been flying around. Which are you referring to? I wish I could find the post where Sweeney said sorry to me. Was it for the insulting way he dismissed my viewpoint at the start of this thread? Keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 27 May 06 - 12:55 PM 30 years to late for you Keith, how long must the Irish people wait for the one from the British, it too would be welcomed ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 12:52 PM I was just responding to our American Guest's last comment Divis. I do know that PIRA has announced an end to hostilities. 30 years late but welcome all the same. Keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST,Bente Date: 27 May 06 - 12:51 PM Keith. Divis has posed a good question here to you. What is your problem ? He said sorry to you, are you going to sorry to him ? Or is it your afraid of your mates in the territorial army reading it ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 27 May 06 - 12:41 PM leadership of Oglaigh na hEireann have apologised unreservedly to the victims of their actions. A dramatic and unprecedented move occured last July when the IRA apologised 'unreservedly' to anyone affected during their campaign. To this day neither the British Army nor the British government have made any form of apology to the Irish people for their actions. Nor have they made any form of apology to those interned without trail. I hope people reading these posts can see that Keith is continuously trying to provoke me about the IRA. Only he has the answer as to why. I see no point is asking him for his reason as he doesn't answer my questions anyway. How many times must I repeat the above statement ? I think I have done this twelve times since last July. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 27 May 06 - 12:22 PM Do you think that you should explode bombs in shopping malls and railroad stations because of that? Backshoot young police officers and service people, on and off duty? Or there is the other side of the coin. Come here and defend paid government assassins. Be involved with loyalist gunmen in Collision. Be found guilty in the European courts of human justice of torture and other crimes.Defend an army who murdered children in the streets. Shoot young men involved in no crime in the back. Send innocent Irishmen to jail for crimes they did not commit. It's not black and white Keith. Don't try to make out that it is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 10:39 AM Guest, You said you are from the States (or one of you did) Are you a Native American? If so your lands were invaded more recently than Ireland was. Do you think that you should explode bombs in shopping malls and railroad stations because of that? Backshoot young police officers and service people, on and off duty? Are you a Mexican American from California? Then your state and others were taken by force from your ancestors much more recently than any part of Ireland. Your Californian gold financed the industrialisation of USA. Your histories would have been very different. Should you start killing the Gringos now? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 09:33 AM Guest(s??) Interesting discussion points that I have debated many times on this forum. I will gladly repeat my arguments to you by PM because all the other contributors here have heard them before. However if you think up a Guest name and start a new thread I will happily debate with you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 27 May 06 - 09:20 AM Thank you Keith. I agree with your viewpoints and I am sure you will agree, those paramilitaries came about due to Britain being in Ireland in the first place, otherwise why did they exist ? what cause had they. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 08:56 AM Yes Guest, I am pro Irish but anti the paramilitaries, Loyalist and Republican, who have brought so much death and misery, and delayed the legitimate aspirations of the Nationalist people of the North. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 27 May 06 - 08:50 AM Why is there no room in the above for your reply ? You seem to be willing and able to cover most other subjects in it. Yet again convenient. So are you now saying you are pro Irish ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 08:32 AM No need to be a member, just give a name or nickname. I offered to answer the question about how I would respond to an invasion of Britain in a new thread. This is not the place. I take it that you could not find an example of an anti Irish post so please drop that spurious allegation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 27 May 06 - 08:14 AM Sorry did not realise I needn't to be a member to debate. Convenient answer from someone who was asked several questions in above replies and still refused to answer them. Are you saying Member Keith that you did answer all the questions the above members put to you ? If so they didn't appear ! Please reply and say why you will not answer these members. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 May 06 - 08:03 AM American Guest, if you are also all the previous Guests you are getting very repetitive. anti Irish? attacking Irish? At the risk of being as repetitive as you, PLEASE GIVE EXAMPLES of such posts here or shut up. And if you want to debate you need a name so we know which guest you are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 27 May 06 - 06:59 AM Drummer boy speaking for a hell of a lot of Irish friends we have as much interest in the Da Vinci Code as we have in the Mogolian local election, and on second thoughts don`t read McGuffins books, it would be better to let you rave on in your ignorance of all things Irish. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 May 06 - 03:57 AM Fascinating to read about a the various Catholic and Protestant pressure groups leafleting and protesting outside cinemas showing The da Vinci Code over there. i saw the film last night. Couldn't really see why Hope Ireland feel the population is at risk from it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 May 06 - 03:39 AM Cheers Jude - The timing makes it a good remedy for World cup fever! I am looking forward to it even more now. No-one has told me about the Irish in Kings college though... Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Alba Date: 26 May 06 - 09:34 PM Dave the UK cinema release date for the Film is 23rd June 2006. Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 26 May 06 - 08:34 PM I have watched this thread daily. It started out reviewing a film. Then it attacked the Irish people. It then attacked individual Irish members. Saw very little sense in some of the posts. Have to say what ard mhacha has said here has made a lot of sense and I took his advice and read the pages he referred to. Divis took a lot of hits and never got replies to the questions he posed. Dave brought calm to rough waters. If you ask do us lot in the States understand the English ? NO! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 May 06 - 05:50 PM Not just in Northern Ireland either, ard mhacha. And not just the British army! Until we stop training people how to kill and maim it will continue happening all over the world:-( How do we have soldiers that aren't trained like that though? Are they a necessary evil? Trouble is I don't know what the answer is. But knowing the Mudcat someone will;-) BTW - before I lose the thread altogether does anyone have any details of where and when this film is showing? Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 26 May 06 - 04:49 PM A post from DtG that is honest, and unlike some of the others who never did take my advice and see the workings of an army of occupation by Googling John McGuffin for an education on how the British Army behaved in the north of Ireland. This bye the way is far from being a Thread drift, just pointing out similar terror tatics as the Tans and Auxies used to subdue a risen people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 26 May 06 - 01:14 PM You've summed up my ramblings very well Dave. Thanks..Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 May 06 - 01:04 PM Damn! Missed the 100 and lost the plot while I was at it. Who are these Irishmen at Kings College? I was just begining to re-enjoy it as well! Thanks, Guest of 8:16, I begin to see, at last, where you and ard are coming from. You say To call trained troops "scum of the earth" is acceptable. and, believe or not I now understand the sentiment. I quoted a few lines of Kipling earlier on - From Tommy Atkins to be precise. The Soldier, it seems, has been considered scum from those times at least. A lot longer I suspect! I must admit I picked up more on the 'British Army' bit than the trained troops aspect. In the context that the British Army is part of that group of 'trained troops' (Perhaps the Universal Soldier to give us a musical leaning?) I will accept that they are, to many, the 'scum of the earth'. I disagree in other ways as all the soldiers and ex-soldiers I know have been decent human beings - But I have only seen thm in civies! Rememeber of course that in war there are only allies and enemies. The scum of one side are the angels of the other. Chances are neither view is the whole truth though. Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST,Billy McKinley Date: 26 May 06 - 11:46 AM Ard mhacha I was in Kings College. Remember awaiting the conference results in a hell of a blizzard. Some people don't like to admit to it as the practice is somewhat shameful. Remember an Irish guy there called Cassidy, he collected postcards. Maybe he was involved ! |
