Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig

Subject: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 06 - 08:36 PM

How picky are you, and what are YOUR criteria? I turned one down today.

I accepted the same gig last year and it went as crappy as I knew it likely would be. I feel GREAT about not having it hanging over my head, and I already had our band OK'd on whichever decision I might make (I do our booking).

What are your criteria? Has that changed over time? What have been some of your learning lessons that guide you now?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 May 06 - 09:57 PM

Not enough $$ or an unwillingness to make up for short cash with other perks (food, drink, lodging, whores....)

"it went as crappy as I knew it likely would be"
Sounds like self-fulfilling prophecy to me.... at the very very very least every GIG can be a paid rehearsal.....

Actually there's one even better... a few years ago at a pub-in-a-can downtown, a chum of mine was playing a regular Tuesday night gig when a bunch of FKN-soccer-ball-licking-a$$holes came in, and when he wouldn't only play the bigoted and misogynist music they wanted to hear, they booed him off the stage....

I was sat at the bar when one of these FK-holes came over.... he stood beside me and said "We sure showed him..."

I lit a smoke, inhaled deeply and exhaled these words right into this ignorant mthrfkrs face....

"Oh ya.... he just got paid a whole nights cash for 4 songs, and now is free to go elsewhere and not endure you, while you pay the bar back his wage.... You really showed him eh...."

I then got up, helped my chum out with his gear, and we went to a lovely pub where we spent the night pounding pints, tossing darts and laughing at moron-soccer-fans.....

Every gig has a silver lining, if you're willing to find it

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: stallion
Date: 27 May 06 - 05:31 AM

South Shields this year, One of the Wilson's had pulled out of the gig and we "stood in", I came out of the Coronary Care ward on the wednesday, played it on the Sunday and was back in Coronary care on monday morning. a) I was not at all well during the performance and so I thought it was sub standard, b) I seriously risked my well being.
In hindsight I should have pulled out but I hate dissapointing people, I am of the school that if you say you are going to do something you do it. We are doing a charity gig next month, someone offered us a paid gig on the same evening, the charity gig came first, that is the one we shall be doing.
Peter

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Roughyed
Date: 27 May 06 - 08:05 AM

My band played a gig at a club which was not particularly brilliant but the organiser like us and booked us for St Patricks Night which was about nine months away. In the meantime we acquired a really good agent, gigged all over the place and tripled our fee. We were offered another St Patricks night gig for about four times what we were getting from the club but turned it down on the grounds that a gig is a gig and we had effectively given our word.

Anyway St Patrick's night arrived there were about five people in the audience and it was a lousy gig (we were brilliant of course!). It turned out that open warfare had broken out on the committee and we had fallen foul of their internal politics. I still think we were right to do it but it still rankles a bit.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Hamish
Date: 27 May 06 - 08:24 AM

Domestic pressure....   ~8^(

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Rockhen
Date: 27 May 06 - 08:27 AM

Nice to hear there is still honour among musicians to stick by their promises.
We haven't had any gigs that were dire...most have some redeeming feature, even if just being an experience to relate in an amusing way at a later date...however we have had some interesting ones...
One gig was an outside private party in someone's garden. We were well into the last set which people did seem to be enjoying,honest!... when, the party host decided it would be nice if people could have some other entertainnment ready for when we finished. He then proceeded to get a lawnmower out and started mowing and area near our stage so that people could play the the game (I think it had a golf theme...) more easily....we wouldn't have minded but he forgot to tune the mower and it was in totally the wrong key...

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: stallion
Date: 27 May 06 - 08:46 AM

G works as a good drone!

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: DMcG
Date: 27 May 06 - 09:34 AM

Swan Arcade (Jim Boyes, Heather & Dave Brady, with a solid 'Trad. English Folk' set of songs) wrote on the sleeve notes of their first LP:

All the Good Times
The inclusion of this song stems from the time we were billed by mistake as a country and western trio.

... nothing too picky there, I think!

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 May 06 - 09:44 AM

Let me hasten to say-- we did not bail on a booked gig, but just declined a repeat the following year when the early signs of organizer chaos were, once again, present.

We've had a lot of bum gigs that were nightmarish in one sense but that did offer us something positive we were grateful for-- we all have to pay our dues when we start out; we've been grateful for every opportunity.

So what I am looking for is your experiences in declining-- what have been the factors that went into your decisions to say, once in awhile, "Thanks for thinking of us but we'll have to pass on the opportunity this time," other than being already booked.

One factor for me was the health factor-- three of the four of us are somewhat mobility-challenged. This gig was particularly trying a year ago, and none of us have gotten much stronger since then! :~)

I'm not asking you all if I did right-- I am asking you when and how you found yourself being able to say a gracious "no thanks."

~Susan

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Max
Date: 27 May 06 - 10:33 AM

Last year we took most any gig we could. It was our first year, the thrill was there, we needed the practice and experience, so it made sense.

2 of us have kids, a third a husband and farm, and all but one of us had a full time job (there was 7 in our band at the time). We need to make sure that it's worth our time to do it. Not just money, but exposure and opportunity too (free beer caries a bit of weight as well).

Our band is now 4. 2 of the fellers split off because they wanted to do music full time. We're still quite close and gig with them often, but 3 of us just had no interest in the grind to "make it". We already made it as far as I was concerned. These guys now gig like maniacs, almost every night. The rest of us take maybe a gig a week, sometimes 2 as long as the price is right.

We try not to play for less than $300, but that changes with opportunity. We took a gig with no guarantee a few weeks ago because it was the new "hot joint" in Wilmington. Turned out that we were on the bill with 4 hard core rock bands. In situations like that, we just turn it into a fun night out. We killed, but the only people there were the other bands and their girlfriends. I don't like vanity gigs.

I feel real good where we are right now. Our name is around town, 3 towns in fact, and the offers come to us. We take them or leave them depending on the compensation, fun factor, exposure etc, on a case to case basis. We don't sweat it. We know we can have just as much fun in the rehearsal room anyhow.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 May 06 - 10:48 AM

"we all have to pay our dues when we start out"

You never stop paying your dues....

I'll play for good money... I'll play for a good cause.... I'll play for a good time....

If none of the three are there, I'll play for myself

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 27 May 06 - 11:03 AM

Since we're not full-time musicians, we all have other sources of income, so we're not dependent on the money. And since I'm the one doing all the booking, publicity, web maintenance, personnel issues, scheduling, cd sales, etc. I pick and choose the gigs I like that fit into our life. As a result, I've turned down many gigs that happened when Frank (husband) and I were planning to go to a festival or other event, even ones we had done in previous years. I've also effectively turned down private party gigs by making the price too high, when the occasion didn't look like something that would be a good fit for us. And I've turned down bar gigs and background music gigs. Been there, don't need to do that anymore.

Some of these refusals, by the way, do not make other members of the band happy, but then all they have to do is show up and play music. The booking, publicity, personnel, web, cd etc job is always up for bids...

The good thing about turning down gigs (aside from the personal empowerment) is that I get the chance to steer some gigs to friends who have done similar favors for us. That is very gratifying and also a good thing for the friends and works for the promoter as well.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 May 06 - 11:17 AM

" The booking, publicity, personnel, web, cd etc job is always up for bids..."
I suspect you'd have to suck it up and play a lot of gigs if someone else was doing the booking..... :-)

"I get the chance to steer some gigs to friends"
Very nice indeed!

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 27 May 06 - 12:00 PM

Right, Clinton. In fact, I'm having to "suck it up" this Fall doing a private party for a band member's relative. Only fair, because he's done many "good causes" for us in the past.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 May 06 - 12:06 PM

You make it sound as if you don't want to be there

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 May 06 - 12:12 PM

Well, we're not exactly a band, but I have new rule - no more nursing homes unless a member of the staff agrees to stay with us. The last time, two residents got into an angry argument and a kitchen worker started vacuuming right near us.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 27 May 06 - 12:15 PM

It might be fun, but generally I'm not crazy about playing at private parties. My ideal gig is a concert situation where people are there specifically to hear music, or specifically to support some cause that I also support.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 May 06 - 12:39 PM

Any room with a stage.... I'll find an audience

:-)

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:03 PM

Many times over the years, people have come to me and asked my to get my friends/group to perform. When I ask them how much they are paying, I am told that they have no money but that the cause is good and we will get good exposure. My response to them is that "We only play for good causes but we cannot eat exposure."

As a rule, I have found that people who do not pay treat you poorly in other ways. When I volunteer, it's my choice, not the sponsor's. When I run a gig, I make sure the people are taken care of. As a result, my friends are willing to work for less or free if I ask them to. Then again, reputation is everything.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:08 PM

" I have found that people who do not pay treat you poorly in other ways."

Really? Every freebie I've ever played for so far (Knock wood) has treated me VERY well....

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 27 May 06 - 01:39 PM

I agree with Ebarnacle, when I first started I did free gigs,
and you definitely get treated differently when youre not paid.
THings change if you ask for even a token amount like 20$ gas money
you do get treated with more respect.
No one asks an accountant to do free accounting for some good cause
even though he loves his work, but theyve no problem asking musicians or artists.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: GUEST,Gin
Date: 27 May 06 - 05:37 PM

We charge a fee and then give back the money at the end if we feel it's appropriate- in UK they can even claim tax back so they get more back than they paid ( I think!!)

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: stallion
Date: 28 May 06 - 04:02 AM

I agree with the last comment, it is a bit off thread but I think worthy of note. We came in for a bit of flak about not charging for our services, it was undermining the people who were trying to make a living/break even with folk music. Now we have a nominal fee for charities which is usually "returned", ie. a percentage of the "gate". In fact no money changes hands. Regular folk clubs it is the going rate. Private parties - food drink and cd sales!

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: BB
Date: 28 May 06 - 07:13 PM

To those who say, "There's no money in it, but think of the exposure...", the reply might be, "I've known people to die of exposure!" Most people that offer that are trying to get music for free, and are more likely to be business people than charities, in my experience.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 28 May 06 - 08:49 PM

I was asked to play at a bluegrass festival in Anderson, Alaska for the last weekend of July coming up. They offered free admission and $40 which is not even enough to pay for the fuel to drive to the place. Shortly after I turned them down, I was asked to perform at a fair in Delta Junction, Alaska for the same weekend. They offered a plane ticket to Fairbanks, a rental car for me to drive to the fair and have for the weekend, lodging in a hotel in town and $400 bucks on top of it all. Needless to say, I certainly was glad to have turned down the bluegrass folks.

Money is not always a concern for me, in fact I perform many shows throughout the year for no fee and still do pretty good with CD sales, but I've gotten pickier over the last few years. Will the gig interfere with my need for a periodic fishing trip. Does the gig provide decent beer and food. Is it a campout or is there a bed to sleep on. Who is the audience and what are the chances for sales. These are some of the things that I use for decision making. Since I'm a solo act, I don't have to run the offer past anyone but myself.

Mike

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: GUEST,EBarnacle
Date: 29 May 06 - 07:41 AM

Let me revise my last post. The problem is with people who expect you to work for free for their cause. They refuse to see music as a profession, simply as a way to entertain. As mentioned, how many doctors or accountants offer their services for free--or are even asked to?

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 May 06 - 08:55 AM

well, in this neck of the world some accountants are known to offer their services as Honourary Auditors to small not-for-profit organisations, including some folk organisations.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: stallion
Date: 29 May 06 - 09:28 AM

now children, it doesn't matter what other people do it is how one conducts oneself, Alaska Mike (when do I get an invite to go fishing?) had good fortune at someone elses parsimony. I think the maxim, "each to his/her needs" and gigs taken on their merits. Yes we got shafted fairly recently, we waived our P.R. fee for a local radio station who sold the show nationally, think of the exposure! (yes we did consider that). Ultimately I thought of the greater good of taking folk music to a wider audience, a better deal.(incidentally, of all the tracks we did(live concert) the finished programme included what we thought were our three weakest songs.!)
PS
Are there any places that eat performers alive, warning notices will serve us all!

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 29 May 06 - 10:14 AM

Stallion, you are most welcome to attend any of the numerous Alaska Mike fishing seminars that take place throughout the summer. The seminars have no registration fees, but you must supply your own license and gear. They include transportation from Anchorage to a variety of pre-selected fishing hot spots in a diesel guzzling 4x4 pickup truck, songs & stories which may or may not be true, careful instruction on fly tying and method, and a fold out couch bed to sleep on when the trip is over. Sometimes these seminars are planned well in advance, but usually they occur on the spur of the moment desire to get away from it all. Let me know if you're interested.

Mike

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 May 06 - 08:12 PM

its an awful trade off really. you have to feel your way and work out what's right for you.

I always think there is something a bit missing with artists who have never really had to compromise and play what the public wants.

obviously that doesn't obtain with classical music. But folk - well people is really what its all about. In England we have a class of folk musician who has been cocooned by great critical success, and big recording deals.

and its really bloody sad in a way. because they never learn the essentials of the rhythms that people dance to, and that ordinary folk sing along to - naturally that is, not just cos its the correct response in the holy sepulchre of the folk club. they don't learn their craft - and in a way that's why we don't have a living folk culture.

you can do too many crap gigs, but if you never do them, never have to succeed with an audience to put food on the table - then something will always be missing.

that's what I think.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 May 06 - 08:47 PM

"they don't learn their craft"

Actually, this DOES apply very strongly to 'classical musicians', both 'orchestral players' and 'soloists'.

Orchestral players just don't get the jobs if they don't display the 'right stuff' at the auditions - if you don;t show that you know the 'rules' you are not wanted - if you can't keep proper time, play out of tune etc.

Soloists, because they are not working under the same rule, i.e. they 'interpret' things have a slightly different set of rules to work under. But they too have to 'audition' in a way. If they enter a large competition, they will either stand out from the rest, and thus come to notice, because they will usually end up near the top finishers, or they will be 'just another also ran', and thus unnoticed.

For them to crack a recording contract, they have ALREADY done 'the hard yards'.

With 'pop', 'rock' and 'folk' 'artists', it is usually the whim of some uneducated non-musical accountant type who decides if a contract should be given. They often don't get it right - witness the large number of performers who get endless knock backs until they 'strike it lucky', and the tales of promoters who got it wrong - the "I coulda signed the Beatles, but I didn't like their music!" w*nkers!

Also, with a mostly 'recorded music "industry"' - like the 'comedian industry' - the changes in society which once fostered growing of talents via lots of live public performances which may have taken 10 -20 years to acquire the skills, such a way of life has mostly vanished, and "instant fame" is now expected as the normal thing.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Effsee
Date: 29 May 06 - 09:34 PM

I'm intrigued.."In England we have a class of folk musician who has been cocooned by great critical success, and big recording deals."
Come on WLD, name names, who are you talking about?

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 May 06 - 09:55 PM

WLD, yes.

You've nailed it (again). In our particular genre, and with the types of offers with which we are beset, what you are talking about is a large consideration. We HAVE learned what people want. When an organizer who knows zip wants to tell us what we are wanted for, it's really hard to wrap my head around the fact that they don't really understand that we are not what they are looking for, and that their event wouldn't do well even if we were willing to do what they ask.

We generate something quite special.... most organizers in this tiny, sparse market haven't the vision to recognize that unique thing as a reality to be hoped for.

We're very good at what we do-- and so one of my criteria, I am coming to see, is whether the offer is a chance to do what we do or merly an effort to fill a slot with something they hope will have some buzz. And I'm not here to spread buzz for them.

Another is, will the logistics work for us with the limited strength at our disposal between us? Will it be physically possible for us to manage the location, the gear, and the tech end?

And about supporting causes-- I do NOT support the very skewed cause this recent offer entailed. Our band DOES support the next two items on the table. I'll finish planning for them, and we'll do them over the summer.

About "exposure," I think I feel like Max describes above. We ground out some really crap gigs to become known in our area. It must have worked because we get more offers than we can accept-- we suddenly woke up one morning to find we were now considered a fixture in the community, not "who are they and what do they do?" But even back in the days we played just out of gratitude for the call, often beyond or strength, we didn't say yes to ALL the offers. We all either have day jobs or caregiving responsibilities to juggle.

I'm just sad the world is so hungry for music that we (all of us) can't fill every request. People ought to learn to do some music for themselves, is what I think. I like the idea of steering gigs to friends-- but I'd do it by making new friends who might be musicians under their terror, too.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 May 06 - 10:15 PM

My pet peeve is an otherwise worthwhile organization who asks us to play gratis. I think, "well, it's a cause I'd like to support; and it sounds like it might be a good time," and I say yes. Then they say, "And, oh, as long as you're coming, would you mind bringing your sound system? And I'm sure you won't mind if the other band that's playing after you uses it? And if we borrow it for a couple of speeches?" OK, I'm exaggerating - a little. But I have an iron clad rule now: Play for free if the cause is worth it and the gig sounds like fun. But seven times never do the sound for free.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Willie-O
Date: 29 May 06 - 11:03 PM

I am completely onboard with EBarnacle, and doubly with Midchuck.

For me, hearing the word "exposure" from a stranger over the phone elicits pretty much the same response as being asked to play a benefit for the National Association of Child Molesters (and bring my own PA) would. OK, slight exaggeration there.

My experience is that anyone who offers "exposure" cannot provide it, because THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE DOING!!! And starting with the grand precept that you'll play for free as a convenience to them, you'll be lucky to get a gratis hot dog out of the deal.

So those are the gigs I turn down, cause they're not real gigs.
Not long ago, someone I know who is like Queen of the Mountain in her own head, had one of her proxies call me up and ask to borrow "a small microphone" for their event. I soon figured out that by "a microphone", they meant "a PA system". Honestly didn't know the difference!

Yup, I'll play for a good cause in a heartbeat. To me the definition of a good cause does not include "because we want to have a bunch of music without paying for it", which seems to be the norm for many community events. Later on, though, you find out that sure enough, one or two "headliners" did get paid--in fact, got paid a lot, and there was just no money left for anyone else. This is not a system I want to support.   

And like Max, I don't care for 'vanity gigs' either. Just to be able to say you played there, and leave out the detail that there was no audience? I'd rather catch up on me sleep.

W-O
Funny eh, as I get more jaded, I get offered more & better gigs. Because if you can provide a professional performance--on time, more or less sober, and appropriate to the venue and audience--that will get noticed and will get you the references that will get you your next paying gig.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 06 - 02:33 AM

to be honest - I think its not entirely a British phenomena, what I'm talking about.

I think for example that Ry Cooder's bar room sound - doesn't sound much like anything in a real bar room. A bit too arty farty for the drunken maniacs most real musicians working real bar rooms have to appease.

English folk music(as broadcast) is so far outside the sensibilities of most English people as to really require no further elaboration. I wasn't taking a smack at any particular musicians - we all work as best we can.

That's why all these podcasts and Mudcat are so great. IT's like hearing England's working musicians breathe. too late for most of my generation, but future youngsters won't be tied down by the Lilliputian imagination of the music industry. I firmly believe we never got to hear the best songs of our generation.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Rasener
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:56 AM

I have been reading this thread with dismay. It almost makes me want to close my folk club immediately.
I have for the last 3 years there abouts put one huge amount (when I say huge I mean huge) of unpaid hours/telephone costs/travel cost/promotion costs etc into running this club.
It is a concert style club and has 4 unpaid floorspots and one 45 minute floorspot which is paid but not at a full gig price.
The purpose of the club, is to provide performers with a means to platform themselves and to offer an opportunity for people in a rural area to see the immense amount of talent that is around at a very reasonable price £3. Any small profits or losses go back into the club.
It runs every other Friday (summertime as well).

So quite honestly if thats the way you guys think you can all stuff it. Hopefully there won't be anywhere you can play soon.

Les goes away to calm down.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:27 AM

" I have found that people who do not pay treat you poorly in other ways."
Really? Every freebie I've ever played for so far (Knock wood) has treated me VERY well....


Hmm . . . a statement I would have made until recently.

A sound person we've worked with quite often asked us if we'd take part in a fundraiser for a seniors' centre he'd gotten involved with. He's always worked his butt off for us, so the answer was an automatic 'yes'.

The evening was a dinner (lasagna) and variety show being organized by an MC who (we figure) thought he was Ed Sullivan. There was my trio (old tyme / folk / roots), another trio (Newfoundland music) and assorted singers and dancers (who all performed to canned music) and a comedian.

Performance-wise, it was a very different sort of evening and we had a lot of fun - all our stuff went over well with the audience.

How were we treated by the organizer(s)? Well, not at all. None of the performers were given food, except maybe the sound guy (who lugged his own gear - twice - once for a rehearsal and for the gig itself) and was still expected to buy a ticket so his wife could attend! As for us, there was a tray of cookies (mostly digestive biscuits) and a pitcher of tap water backstage.

There was supposed to be a table set up in the lobby for us to sell CDs. No such animal that I could see. As soon as the concert was done, I hurried out to the lobby to just stand around looking silly. (One lady came up to me and actually bought a CD.)

I suspect we'll be asked again next year. I expect we'll be declining as graciously as we can manage.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:44 AM

Reply to "The Villan" . . .

I think (I'm hoping) you're misinterpreting the drift of this thread. I don't believe it's about not being paid, but rather about being treated with disregard, disrespect and a total lack of consideration. Sadly, this happens all too often in the case of fundraisers whose organizers may be well-intentioned, but simply have no clue about how to treat people.

In the case of folk clubs, such as you run, we all know there's little money being made and that they're run simply for the love of the music. I don't think anybody's disrespecting that, or the effort you put into it. I have been, and currently am, involved in just such clubs here in Canada.

I seriously doubt that any of the performers you've had feel that they are in any way being taken for granted. Be of good cheer, laddie . . .

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: redsnapper
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:44 AM

When I have good reason to think I won't enjoy it...life's too short to waste time! The money is of secondary importance.

RS

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:49 AM

"When it stops being fun..."

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Rasener
Date: 30 May 06 - 06:17 AM

Jeremiah
I would like to think that I treat everybody that comes to the club with the utmost respect, even if I can't offer the world to them.
I do feel guilty that I can't pay everybody, but the club wouldn't survive in such circumstances, and I feel that we would all lose out to some extent.
Maybe I have been a bit rash there and misunderstood the purpose of the thread - so apologies.
Les

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 06 - 06:47 AM

Nothing at all to feel guilty for Les - the people who play there are nothing but grateful for the work you put into the folkscene.

Even if Faldingworth is in the arse end of nowhere. Its quite nice to step out of reality occasionally and visit somewhere where the scarecrows outnumber the inhabitants.

Leadbelly (or maybe it was Bukka white) had it about right when he said, as he counted his fingers after shaking hands on a deal, I figured it was better to give than receive.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Rasener
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:00 AM

Thanks there WLD. I am glad to say that there are a group of performers including yourself who very kindly support my efforts, and without them, the club would not exist. Long may it reign.

"Its quite nice to step out of reality occasionally and visit somewhere where the scarecrows outnumber the inhabitants"

LOL, you are not far wrong there. Maybe I can go and nick some of the scarecrows and put them in the audience on Friday. Do you think you can get them to join in the choruses WLD :-)

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:38 AM

it never really necessary with my songs - getting the buggers to laugh is th problem.

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:41 AM

When asked to perform for free for charity I ask - how much are you charging for tickets? I then say I will deduct the cost of one ticket from my fee. If that is not acceptable I don't do the gig.
I don't see why I should be expected to donate more than ten times than each of the gig punters does.
And if the charity is not one I support I don't do the gig anyway.
Guest

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 May 06 - 08:41 AM

Your loss Guest....

I'm hard pressed to think of a 'charity' gig that I've done that didn't lead to at least 2-4 gigs that paid.... often way more than my average fee... Gigs that I never would have got if not for doing the freebie.....

I have also, at such charity gigs met some great people, had some great food & drink, had some great fun, and left feeling wonderful for the whole experience.....

Sorry your experience has been so bad....

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 May 06 - 09:00 AM

Les (The Villan), folk clubs like yours generally don't exist, as far as I know, on this side of the pond, except maybe in the larger cities at events such as the FWGW organizes. Therefore "gig" has a whole different context for this thread-starter. I'm sorry if the cultural differences led you to misunderstand my intent. I'd be glad to play in the type of environment you describe, if we had it here within a couple of hours' drive.

In any event, my question was a general one for discussion, not a slam at organizers or an effort to elicit these. I think we all know that there are good ones and there are idiots, but that wasn't my point about the opening post, either. (We've had plenty of "gigs from hell" type discussion in the past.)

I just wanted to know what criteria guide people, generally, in whether to accept or decline an opportunity. Just because Mudcat is so argumentative these days doesn't mean that we can't still discuss our lives in music in a reasonable fashion!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: redsnapper
Date: 30 May 06 - 09:48 AM

Same experience with charity gigs here as Clinton Hammond... mostly I've done them for Amnesty International. All have led to other gigs. Good reason to have your cards to hand.

RS

Subject: RE: Why and/or When to Turn Down a Gig
From: Rasener
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:31 PM

Susan
Thanks for that and sorry if I misunderstood.

I like to set up charity evenings that affect performers from the folk world. All the door takings have gone to that specific charity and the performers have always done the evening for nowt.

I would really like to do a big gig for Autism one day as my daughter is on the Autistic Spectrum. So any big named performers who might be interested in supporting me on that, please let me know. It would be a UK event of course.

Cheers
Les