BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 07:11 AM

Article IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Article X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

These are the most ignored articles. The federal government has no authority to take things or matters into their own hands that they are not specifically empowered to do in your Constitution. If all else fails, there is always the second ammendment, which means it would make it very hard to burn gays without consequences, if they dont want to be burned.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 09:53 PM

From a poet who is arguably the greatest Candain singer-songwriter of modern times:

Patriots shout promises,
And fools salute a flag,
While the country that it represents
Is torn apart like rags.
It's not just done in fact -- it's done in deeds.
My country 'tis of thee.

Rich man left you helpless,
With his bank account intact.
Poor folks never had it --
Can't ask us to put it back.
It hurts me deep inside to see you bleed;
Country, 'tis of thee.

(Excerpted from "Country 'Tis of Thee", by B. Murdoch).

A

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:55 PM

"I wonder how they felt later when they found themselves staring out from behind the barbed wire. "

Moot Point. Most of them didn't do that for very long...

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:49 PM

"unlike the Hetrosexual mob with their 50% divorce rate, they would not be contributing to the amount of children that currently go without as a result of broken homes and subsequent reduced incomes."

Hate to spoil a good punchline, but SOME such couples ARE determined that they WILL have children 'raised in a loving environment', in spite of some very basic biological hinderances...

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:41 PM

Don-

Thanks for providing the link to the NPR interview with Michelle Goldberg, author of KINGDOM COMING: The Rise of Christian Nationalism. My mother says this book is really scary so you should think long and hard about whether you want to assume the responsibility of becoming more fully informed. JudyB and I are planning to do that soon!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 07:13 PM

I am pleased that the Senate did not let the Amendment Discriminating Against Gays go anywhere; but it is still (IMHO) shameful that they had to even discuss something that should have been laughed out of court before it got to Capitol Hill. Ptui.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 07:10 PM

Good point (s), Mr Brillo

Part of the reason for some to live by the rules of a religion is the dictates of same. The Golden Rule works as do the 10 Commandments, even if one does not pay strict attenton to the first 4.

While I consider myself a follower of the Bible, I am of the opinion we are violating/ignoring the rights of citizens with the various State laws that have been passed in the last several years.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Bill Brillo
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 06:32 PM

Not my country, not my law. Isn't it the duty of government to ensure fair treatment for all its citizens so, regardless of creed, colour or belief, people in similar situations should pay similar taxes, get similar benefits and have similar responsibilities. Religions have their own rules, one chooses to join a religion and live according to it's rules. We see what happens when Religions run countries (Iran). By the way, the Anglican/Episcopalian church is not a Protestant church it is a Catholic (as opposed to Roman Catholic) one, check out the Nicene (Nicean) Creed!

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 02:23 PM

Michelle Goldman, Charlie Noble's niece, was interviewed on "Fresh Air" with Terry Gross. Thanks for the head's up on that, Kat. I managed to track it down and listen to it. Well worth the time. Folks can listen to it HERE.

You know, people tend to snort "conspiracy theory" when anyone gets worked up about possible plots to take over control of the government, but dammit all, there are power-hungry factions out there, and so far, the PNAC and the Christain Nationalists seem to be succeeding. They're entrenched in the government and they're in the White House.   

"The sky is falling!" my ass!!!

I'm quite sure that there were people in Germany in the 1930s who snorted "That's just a conspiracy theory. That can't happen here!" I wonder how they felt later when they found themselves staring out from behind the barbed wire.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 12:42 PM

I suppose I would be consider by some as a right winger something or other.

I am a believer that this mess didn't get its' start from some slime that washed ashore. Have been registered as a Repub for the second half of my voting 'career'. Not sure where that party is headed these days.

With that bit of background, I was happy to hear a few minutes ago the the proposed Amendment to the Constituion did not get off the ground.
Gay marriage should be considered an oxymoron to those that travel the road as I do. However, I see nothing wrong with the Domestic Partners title. I know of brothers who have never married, live on the old homestead and totally share. There are some States' laws that have eliminated the benefits that these people are entitled to.

I noted in a paragraph on my former company's info sheet on health insurance that was sent to all concerning the new prescription benefits offered under Medicade. "Includes....,Domestic Partners...."
Never notice that before but never gave it any thought also. All I was interested in was the continuing benefits provided as part of an early retirement package.

Again, we seem to focus too much of our time on minor things. What percentage of the citizens are Gay? 3 - 5%? And unlike the Hetrosexual mob with their 50% divorce rate, they would not be contributing to the amount of children that currently go without as a result of broken homes and subsequent reduced incomes.

"Protection of Marriage" - A good idea with regard to the divorce rate. Just keep the Feds out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:41 AM

Buncha effing criminals, you ask me. Talk about PREverts, making political hay out of that dear and precious document is about as PREverted as you can get. Chaps me byuttocks, it do.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 10:18 AM

According to a junior member from LA, divorces are now the fault of gay marriages:

But win or lose, Vitter and other supporters said it's important that the Senate debate the issue.

"We spend a lot of time here in the Capitol debating a lot of domestic and social issues, and yet so many of those issues start in the home," Vitter said. "And the greatest predictor of success in life is a strong, two-parent family and the right upbringing for a child."

Vitter said that voters in his state want "their wishes honored" on the marriage issue and are worried about seeing them overturned by judges.

Asked by a reporter how the amendment would help deal with the problem of divorce and deadbeat fathers among heterosexual couples, Vitter said it's important for Congress to deal with those issues as well.

"But I think recent history has shown that when marriage has been radically redefined, then it ceases to have any meaning and any significance in the life of a society," Vitter said.

So, he must agree with Ake's suggestion that we do away with marriage altogether!

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 04:50 AM

That's a briliant answer, JOhn, though I am sure the Southern Baptists aren't the nly ones to have perverted translators! Speaking of which, one of my fav. books remains the Metaphysical Bible Dictonary by Chas. Fillmore. Very useful in finding what the actual Aramiac(sp) meaning was of a word and what the symbology is behind words of the Bible. It helps when combatting such ignorance as this *amendment.*

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 09:43 PM

On the subject of the homophobia expressed by the current fundies, but many years ago when similar "movements" were evident, a very devout and very well educated minister gave a series of discussions for the "Youth" of the church where I attended, in which he discussed his own doctoral and postdoctoral dissertations on his own translations of surviving writings from both New and Old Testament times.

Most of the "Youth" were college level students, and several were intending to proceed to seminary. He showed facsimiles of a number of "writings," a small part of his collection, and impressed us all with his documentation and validation of sources, and the discussion was at a quite intellectual level.

At his conclusion of a full and thoughtful discussion of the Sodom episode in Leviticus, one of the pre-seminarians asked:

"So how did the Southern Baptists come up with their interpretation?"

His answer was quite direct:

"Obviously their translator was a pervert."

It may be the only thing I am quite sure that I remember exactly from the sessions; but I've not seen a contradiction of that opinion in the succeeding 50 years.

The good (my opinion) Rev. Dr. Bruce E. M. departed shortly thereafter to a post of Director of Educational Publishing at the headquarters for the American Baptist Convention. I regret sincerely having heard nothing more of him since.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 09:21 PM

My Lutheran Minister (who was a distant family relation) used to say:

"Remember - Practising Christians haven't got it Perfect yet!"

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 08:48 PM

I believe that the Anglican church is the Episcopal church that we're familiar with in the US. They/It is famously accepting of those outside the norm.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 08:18 PM

Need new reading glasses - keep seeing this thread title as "Fag Marriage..."..............

Justice Kirby, one of the Senior Judges in Australia, has finally made a public statement (he has never ben secretive about it before, just never said anything publicly, and has never been maliciously "outed") about his live in Male Partner. He still claims to be a practising Anglican, and regularly wries to the local Bishops, every time they make a public anti-gay statement - pointing out that each gay person has brothers, sisters, other family members, and that's a LOT of people to upset...

Perhaps our American friends might like to take THAT idea and run with it... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 07:57 PM

JohninKS and Charley Noble, thanks for your postings. Fearful as it may seem, John has it right in that the MAJORITY needs to speak up NOW or we will be governed by the "Christian Nationalists" as Charley's niece has termed them. If anyone missed her interview on NPR a few weeks back, I would urge you to seek it out and listen. She is one brave and smart young woman. I hope the rest of her generation follow suite and VOTE, as well as all others who want to save our country.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 07:39 PM

why don't we just ban marriage for everybody ..homosexuals, lesbians AND the silent majority.

As almost half of marriages now end in divorce, and most of the others stagger on in abject misery, the "partners" too lazy, cowardly, or desensitised to make a run for it and get a life, banning the institution of marriage would seem to solve many problems. Not only the homosexual circus, but the damage done to our children by warring parents, many of whom are unfit to bring up a dog never mind a child.
Todays parents are more interested in safeguarding their "space" and lifestyle than in the mental wellbeing of their children.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 07:16 PM

Of course if all those 36% voted for Bushdom they'd get a lot more votes than they did last time round. Don't anybody relax and think it's in the bag.

I suppose theidea of a constutution where nothing ever gets removed, but the changes are just added, like that one they apparently have in Massachusetts, is to guarantee work for lawyers like the ones who wrote it. Clever lot these New England lawyers...

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 07:02 PM

This nation was not conceived as a vehicle for imposing moral strictures on each other, at least not by the Founding Fathers.

To imply that the Constitution is a meet vehicle for this kind of preachery and shallow moralistic dictatorship is to degrade the entire spirit of the greatest experiment in social inventions ever tried --- the notion that people could live in mutual respect of self-determination.

To conceive of such a thing is to announce one's own woeful ignorance of the whole purpose and meaning of the charter documents of the nation.

The Bill of Rights

The Constitution of the United States

The English Bill of Rights after James II, 1689

Madison's Intent and Philosophy regarding the U.S. Bill of Rights

The Declaration of Independence

Other Founding Documents

Bush and his cronies are flagrantly displaying abysmal ignorance of these documents and the principles they established, and they should be laughed out of the capitol for it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 06:57 PM

I doubt that Bush or his "Conservative" supporters in this Marriage Amendment particularly care whether it passes, although it's not impossible that there may be some who actually are "true believers." It seems clear that that this is primarily for the benefit of the "fundies" who seem to be the main source of votes for the current Congress and Administration.

It should not be brushed off as an "It'll never happen" thing though. As of the present, 37 States have passed Amendments to their State Constitutions incorporating what is now being proposed for the US Constitution. Nearly all of the remaining states have recently passed new statutes with essentially the same effect, or in a few cases have reasserted and in some cases reinterpreted older laws.

Should we have a Congress sufficiently ignorant and/or uncaring to send this amendment to the states, IT WOULD MOST LIKELY PASS AND BE RATIFIED if put to votes in the states, in the US of today.

If good Christians (and others) who believe that something other than the "perfectness of one's anus" may influence their arrival in heaven DON'T OBJECT VIGOROUSLY, and SOON, it is the intent of the fundamentalists to impose their religious law in the US, and they do not intend to stop with one Amendment. As long as they can deliver the votes they will have the willing cooperation of our current crop of politicians. Regretably, it is immensely clear that they probably can succeed if current political trends are allowed to continue.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 05:10 PM

Thanks, Charlie. I just read the review on Amazon and added it to my list. A matter of considerable concern me, as it should be to a lot of people. Including liberal Christians, many of whom, fortunately, are getting pretty fed up with the religious Right.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 04:14 PM

Anarchism...

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 04:12 PM

"Robert Heinlein explored the subject in one of his books - the Davis family if memory serves, but I don't remember off the top which one it was. "

"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is the book, which also expounds on Rational Anachism

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 04:04 PM

Correction: Michelle Goldberg's new book is entitled KINGDOM COMING: The Rise of Christian Nationalism.

Whatever!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 04:02 PM

Most of the Republicans I know here in Maine are embarrassed by the Bush Gang. They do wish they could just take their tax breaks and go back to sleep, but they keep waking up during the night with the most bizarre dreams.

My niece Michelle Goldberg just put out a new book THE RISE OF THE CHRISTAIN RIGHT. If you want to read something really scary...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 12:26 PM

Ok Robin. I was zoned in on US history, since it seemed to be a US thing we might be discussing here, due to the recent resident manipulators; pandering to the fundies again.

But there are more recent (than the assualt on the pagans) historical precedents for what's going on in the US now. At the moment I'm committed to a meeting I need to prep for, but I'll try to be back in a few hours.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 09:00 AM

"The Roman Catholic Church then bullied its way in?"

JiK. I do comprehend that you live in North America (including physically residing there), but I was thinking some many centuries earlier, when 'those damned pagans' in Europe and Britain were bamboozled by those carpetbaggin' monks...


:P

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: John P
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 08:49 AM

I agree that this isn't about gay marriage at all. It's an election year so they get it out of storage and wave it around until they get their huge network of bigot churches to tell everyone to go vote Republican. No one who is putting these things on the agenda gives a rat's ass about it.

Wouldn't it be fun, though, to start a drive to have consititutional amendments requiring us to turn the other cheek? To love our enemies? To take adulterers outside the city and stone them to death? Isn't it true that wearing cloth woven of two fabrics is an abomination, just like homosexuality?

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: harpmolly
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 01:06 AM

Tee hee...today's Pardon My Planet seems quite germane to this discussion. ;)

I'm getting really good at this blue clicky thing...

M

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 12:33 AM

But hey, Bush's approval rating has gone up a whole 5% lately -- to a whopping 36%. Somebody must like something he's doing... 8-(

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 11:33 PM

Amos -

As indicated, that particular legal document is an incomprehensible maze, but not surprisingly isn't all that much different from several others in the same category. Some of them make very interesting reading, but I haven't been interested enough to read until finding how the Mass story ends. Emailed to myself, its about 600 KB, which would indicate 60 or 80 pages - at least.

If you're interested:

All current State Constitutions for the 13 original states can be accessed from: http://www.timepage.org/spl/13colony.html.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 11:10 PM

John:

Thanks for the elucidation -- I confess you had me a bit aggrieved and puzzled there!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 11:02 PM

Before anyone gets into my last previous posting about the Massachusetts Constitution providing for taxation in support of religions, I should confess to telling the truth in a lying manner. (But I deny being a politician, even if it may look like a politician's trick.)

Massachusetts doesn't "srike and replace" as their Constitution is amended. They simply add on a few more paragraphs. If you get the "annotated version" you may find the notes telling you what's been replaced by a later amendment, so the above "quote" is in the current document, but in the fine print you can find that the claim of authority for the Commonwealth to tax to pay for supporting (Protestant) religion was replaced by a granting to the religions themselves the authority to tax their members and a guarantee that the Commonwealth would enforce collection.

The footnotes indicate additional changes (after 1810), but I haven't travelled the entire maze to discern what the effective current document ends up saying. I sincerely doubt that more than a very few residents of Massachusetts could address the question with any real competence; but that doesn't make them significantly "inferior" to citizens of most of our states.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 11:01 PM

So far in the thread I see one single post that I disagree with somewhat, and I would consider that one to be a well-intentioned thought that I'm tempted to agree with. Is it possible this thread isn't going to deteriorate?

If Bush's amendment should ever pass, the only clear effect I can see is a few dollars saved for any employers who are actually contributing
significantly to their employee health care, at the cost of solidifying economic discrimination against gay (and polygamous) people.

It might also have the social "benefit" of encouraging a larger fraction of gay people to stay in denial and attempt heterosexual marriage. Hard to say if this would be significant now, or if there is enough gay and gay-accepting community support out there by now to minimize that effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 10:33 PM

My interest in marriage may be flagging but that's not to say that anyone else who wants to give it a try shouldn't have the right to do so in whatever combination they can envision.
I personally draw the line at sheep or llamas but I will defend with my life the right of anyone else to give it a go!

Having this issue on the front burner is really refreshing. I no longer need to be concerned about our international adventures, our abuse of enemy-combatants and friendly non-combatants, our furious billowing national debt, and other collective hangnails of the ruptured social contract.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 10:14 PM

The Roman Catholic Church then bullied its way in?

True, but so did many other "religions." It depends (not depended) on where you live, as to which church tried and is trying to make the rules for you.

Take, just for an example, the current Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts:

"Article III. [As the happiness of a people, and the good order and preservation of civil government, essentially depend upon piety, religion and morality; and as these cannot be generally diffused through a community, but by the institution of the public worship of God, and of public instructions in piety, religion and morality: Therefore, to promote their happiness and to secure the good order and preservation of their government, the people of this commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies politic, or religious societies, to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily. "

(bold and italics added)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 09:59 PM

Some Harvard men, stalwart and hairy, Drank up several bottles of sherry; In the Yard around three They were shrieking with glee: `Come on out, we are burning a fairy!' -- Edward Gorey

*

Some people in my country, even in the government, are capable of minding their business. A couple of friends of mine had rather conventional ideas of marriage (two sexes, monogamy, etc.), but being atheists & anarchists refrained from involving the church & state in the matter. When she took a job and used her husband's last name, she received a form letter from the Social Security Administration warning her that a person named such and so was using her number. She wrote on the back "I find it convenient to use the last name of the man I am living with", signed it, and sent it back. The office sent her a new card.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: The evil of most days is more than sufficient thereunto. :||

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 09:42 PM

Anual reports in Virginia, hes, and the State Corporation Comission amils 'um out to ya, all filled out, an' all ya do is sign the thing, send 'um $100 and yer good to go fir another year...

(21st year of being "president" (lol...) of my corporation...)

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: paddymac
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 09:32 PM

"Corporate marriage" is not a new idea, but, like any other human bonding/binding scheme, it is neither all good nor all bad. Robert Heinlein explored the subject in one of his books - the Davis family if memory serves, but I don't remember off the top which one it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: hesperis
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 09:11 PM

Corporations are a hell of a lot more expensive than a marriage licence and are required to submit (and pay to submit) quarterly reports to the government.

Some kind of similar legal entity to a corporation would be the best way to logically handle the issue of union of people.

Of course, logic usually has nothing to do with love, much less marriage.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 08:47 PM

Hmmmmmmm?

John excellent post gave me an idea....

Marriage = Corporation!!!

Maybe this is the way around the issue??? Rather than civil unions two people could set up a corporation for "ownership of properties" and for a mutitude of other things such as hospitalization, insurance, etc. with the corporation being the common denominator???

What do you think, John???

There's got to be some way to beat out the folks with NASCAR mentalities who somehow have gotten control of what used to be a rather intellegent society....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 08:46 PM

I was in a Social Security office today as Karen had never changed her name on her card. I was shocked in this ultra-conservative and religious administration to find actual pornography in a SS office. Right there on the office wall above everything else were two wholly filthy and disgusting pictures!   One was of a huge Dick and the other of a gaping asshole.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 08:01 PM

Dear JohnInKansas,

I know you DID say, it was only a 'partial answer', but...

I so rarely get the chance to argue with you over any of your pronouncements, that I just gotta jump in here... :-)

While what you have said is spot on, long before that, people organised their own 'civil ceremonies; weddings, burials, comings of age, etc.

The Roman Catholic Church then bullied its way in and took over all the 'significant civil ceremonies', as it gradually got its tentacles in, long before 'The New World' was invaded...

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:59 PM

It takes a lot of nerve and complete perversion of purpose, and a warped moral compass, to use the Constitution of the Unitd States as a plastic token in a gimmick for campaigning purposes; it really shows the character of the man.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:54 PM

Anyone who perceives their marriage to be the leat bit threatened by a gay couple marrying has much bigger problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:54 PM

Bush's popularity ratings are in the biffy, the Repubs in general are looking a little green around the gills, and there's a Congressional election coming up in a few months. And to add to their problems, at least a few Democrats are acting is if they've actually grown spines. This whole issue is an attempt to by-pass the higher brain centers and appeal to the reptile brain of the voters.

"Never in our history has an incumbent administration relied so heavily on the intellectual sluggishness of the electorate."
--Bill Maher.


Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:34 PM

It seems pretty obvious that this amendment isn't being introduced with any expectation of getting passed, but purelly as a gimmick for campaigning purposes. As Mrrzy said, takes attention away from the war, and also from any real political or economic issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Flag Marriage and Gay Burning
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:27 PM

BestComment Mrrzy.