rejuvenating old guitar strings.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: tritoneman
Date: 18 Apr 15 - 05:59 PM

There's such an enormous - and certainly for any new player, probably bewildering - choice of guitar strings on the market. I suppose it was much simpler when the choice for a lot of us in the UK seemed to be limited to 'Cathedral' or 'Rotosound' - or Gibson or Martin (if you were rich enough!!). Guages weren't often discussed..... I eventually discovered Ivor Mairants Bronze strings. They weren't expensive and sounded good and to return to the main theme of this thread, I boiled them perhaps two or three times before putting a new set on.
Graham

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: Musket
Date: 19 Apr 15 - 03:33 AM

Certainly, elastic limit could be a factor if this is reached. My work up till fifteen years ago was with designing and building vibrating structures, feeders, screens, compacting tables etc.

When you tighten bolts on vibrating motors, you retightened them again after an hour and then they were OK as the elastic limit of (8.8) bolts had been reached.

Same with strings? Not sure. Pulling them when you fit them is more to do with bedding them in than stretching to a limit. If you reach the limit, then they would break easily.

I also don't think boiling water would be hot enough to stress relieve them but would be delighted to be proved wrong. I reckon the removal of gunk is the factor here.

To be honest, strings aren't stupidly priced versus the lotions and potions, heating costs etc. I put Elixir on those I want to last and D'Darrio on those I change often. I bulk buy the latter at just over a fiver a set.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 19 Apr 15 - 06:35 AM

Re Elixir strings. The first set I bought lasted well over a year. The second set (bought off eBay) lasted a few weeks. I don' t know if they were cheap copies or just a rogue set of real Elixirs. I wrote to Elixir and they kindly sent me a new set of strings.
I should add all subsequent set of Elixirs have not had the longevity of my first set. Don't know why.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 19 Apr 15 - 10:57 AM

I use Dr. Ducks .It pretty much does everything they claim. I put it on the strings and fretboards when I change them and about once a week thereafter and it gives fast action and keeps the strings lively for a long time. I've put it on the bodies of older instruments whose nitro lacquer finishes have gotten mungy and it's cleaned them up considerably though I haven't worked up the nerve to apply it to my higher end instruments.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: GUEST,jan burda
Date: 19 Apr 15 - 02:24 PM

The 2 principal reasons for strings going dead (Not breaking) are !. Work hardening of the wrap, and core. The metal becomes brittle/crystallized. Annealing at very high temperatures is needed to reverse this..not practical. 2. Multitasking players (eating pizza while playing) will most certainly effect the tone. This can be dealt with by the various cleaning methods mentioned.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: Musket
Date: 20 Apr 15 - 02:41 AM

I presume most people give the guitar a wipe after playing? I clean the fretboard with lemon oil when changing strings and towards the end of the life of them run a little Fretfast on them, remembering to wipe the excess off.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: Stanron
Date: 20 Apr 15 - 08:19 AM

I don't remember ever boiling strings back in the 60 or 70s. Other people talked about doing it but it seemed too much like hard work to me. What I did do was wipe them with a small piece of cloth soaked in methylated spirit or white spirit. I didn't unwind them or de-tune them, just soaked the rag in the solvent, wrapped the rag around one string at a time and ran it up and down the string a few times. It made a terrible squeaking sound on the unwound strings.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 20 Apr 15 - 08:39 AM

One other step I use when changing strings is to rub the fingerboard with a fine Scotch Brite pad. This gets rid of the grunge that builds up against the frets and in the grain of the wood and gives the board a polished and fast feel. Be sure to wipe the board down good after doing this and before applying oil.
I tried boiling strings w/ baking soda back in the 70's when 3-4 bucks meant something to me but never noticed a significant difference.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 15 - 09:04 AM

I loosen all strings but one at a time and get a chamois cloth and use friction to remove crap

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 20 Apr 15 - 09:26 AM

One other thing. Occasionally I lift each string at the 12th fret of a guitar or the center of a string length and let it snap down onto the frets then run a cloth between the strings and board. You'll be surprised at the amount of grunge you pick up on both sides of the cloth.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: olddude
Date: 20 Apr 15 - 10:41 PM

I don't know if it is me or common but old strings I change they have wear and flat spots you can feel so Iddon't think you can do anything but change them

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 03:18 AM

Musket
Certainly, elastic limit could be a factor if this is reached.

Elastic limit is a notional one in all metals, permanent stretch happens with increasing value as the string is tensioned. And cold flow has time and tension dimensions. At the tensions put on strings, elongation is happening immediately and with time. The amounts are going to be small in percentage terms but in musical terms it is noticeable to all but beginners. The excessive plucking after new strings is going to add to it, and teasing out whether the effect is from the guitar, the nut, bridge, machine head, fold of the string round the post, kinks anywhere or pegs - or this mythically "absolute/binary" elastic limit is impossible.

When the strings are new the crystal structure of the metal is "as manufactured". After putting on the guitar and tensioning them it will be modified, slightly. With time the crystals will have slipped past in places. This is another way of describing cold flow but the change is permanent and is heard as a "tired string". cold flow never stops while the strings are in tension, its value will depend on the brand - hence the reputation/price of some brands. And is not metal fatigue just another manifestation of the same process? Vibration causing failure - and increasing evidence as it nears? Music - vibration: spot the link.

cold flow can be demonstrated very easily in a metal that exhibits a lot (ie ductile metals). e.g. Solder wire. If you unfold a length from the reel and place the reel at the edge of a desk, the wire sticking out in thin air. It stays there. Come back tomorrow - where is it now? In the days of tin/lead it would be vertical, and even with modern RoHS compliant tin/antimony solder wire it falls overnight.

I have known several guitarist who hate others using their instrument, citing the acid in sweat that they lovingly don't have! (as much of presumeably). Their solutions are "not with mine you don't", dry cloth and "Fast Fret" et al.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: Musket
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 03:48 AM

Elastic limit is indeed notional. On four out of six strings, you have torsional stress on the coils and common or garden stress on the core.

You know when you go over it....

In addition, it is variable. Playing strings anneals them anyway. We used to sell systems for vibro stress relieving in industrial applications.

I am more inclined to blame manufacturing quality of the strings rather than a notional limit exceeded. The ratio of csa to length would allow far more drawing out than a guitar allows anyway.

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 04:33 AM

As a primarily electric guitarist I'm perhaps more comfortable
with what a lot of acoustic players would consider to be dead strings.

The duller sound is more controllable for my purposes.

There are even products for muffling the harmonics of open strings at the nut.

Also consider Bass guitarists who traditionally stuff foam under the strings at the bridge...

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: Bugsy
Date: 23 Apr 15 - 09:47 AM

This thread really has come a long way from "Boiling strings in saucepans". It's what I like to think Mudcat is all about.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: rejuvenating old guitar strings.
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 15 - 02:49 PM

Nothing sadder than a beautiful martin d28 with worn out strings. Loss of all that beautiful tone. Changing strings is a small price to pay