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2026 Mudcat origins question

Mo the caller 11 Jun 06 - 02:16 AM
Azizi 11 Jun 06 - 10:12 AM
Azizi 11 Jun 06 - 10:58 AM
Azizi 11 Jun 06 - 11:33 AM
Mo the caller 11 Jun 06 - 01:49 PM
Azizi 11 Jun 06 - 03:39 PM
Jim Dixon 30 Jun 06 - 05:11 PM
Mo the caller 30 Jun 06 - 05:41 PM
Leadfingers 30 Jun 06 - 05:58 PM
Jim Dixon 30 Jun 06 - 06:09 PM
Leadfingers 30 Jun 06 - 07:28 PM
Mo the caller 01 Jul 06 - 04:38 PM
GUEST,deppends 28 Jan 07 - 02:06 AM
GUEST,deppends 28 Jan 07 - 02:10 AM
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Subject: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Mo the caller
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 02:16 AM

Most of the information is in a current thread (except the origins of the origional rhyme and whether there is any language it makes sense in), but can you imagine the number of footnotes there would need be for a future folklorist to sort out the cultural references is this creative use of language?

"Kentucky fried chicken and a pizza hut,
Mc Donalds, Mc Donalds

Luck Skywalker and a Jabba the hut
Dath Vader, darth vader

A luck sky chiken and a Pizza the hut
Mc Vader Mc Vader"


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 10:12 AM

I love kid's creativity!

I particularly like how the third verse transposes names and word endings, thus 'adding' to the fun

But that version of "Kentucky Fried Chicken and A Pizza Hut" presented above made me realize that in this Internet age, "typos" have joined the ranks of "misremembering" and "mishearing" for how children's rhymes may accidentally change and those changes are passed along.

I think 'luck' is probably a typo for "Luke" as the other references in that verse are to the Star Wars movie characters.

Of course, I could be wrong about that.

But then again, I could be right.

:0)


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 10:58 AM

And speaking of children mixing and matching references and lines from various sources to make their rhymes, probably the most widely known handclap rhyme nowadays is "Brickwall Waterfall". One version of that rhyme was featured in the 2003American movie "Dickie Roberts: Former Child Star". I'd be interested in knowing if anyone knew this rhyme before 2003 {as I don't think that movie's writers made it up whole cloth}.

There are numerous examples of that rhyme.

ABC hit it
thats the way uh huh uh huh
i like it uh huh uh huh
thats the way uh huh uh huh
i like it uh huh uh huh
u got the grooves
i got the moves
brick wall waterfall
girl u think u got it all
but you don't
i do so boom with that attitude
peace punch captain crunch
i got something u can't touch
bang bang choochoo train
wind me i'll do my thang
reese piece seven-up
mess with me i'll kick your butt

posted by starburst http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php; July 15, 2005

[used with the permission of that blog's members]

****

it's called A-B-C Hit It! {and/ or Brickwall Waterfall}. It goes:
A-B-C Hit It! That's the way Uh-Uhh I like it Uh-Uhh.
That's the way Uh-Uhh I like it Uh-Uhh. Brickwall Waterfall
Girl you think you know it all. You don't. I do. So Poof with the Attitude. Peace Punch Captain Crunch. I got something you can't touch.
Bang Bang Cho Cho Train. Wind me up I'll do my thing.
Yummy Yummy 7Up Mess with me I'll beat you up. Wait, Come back.
I think you need a Tic Tac. Not 1 Not 1 Not 2 But the whole six-pack. I'm not trying to be mean but you need some Listerine. Not a sip not a swallow. But the whole dang bottle.

{PS. To the owner of this website usually the Brickwall rhymes are games you play with your hands. Thanks!!!}
-lauren; S.A T.X ro ; 5/7/2006 http://www.cocojams.com/taunting_rhymes.htm

****

Brick wall waterfall boy/girl you think you no it all you dont i do so shh whith that Additude Your Mama your daddy your balled headed granny she 99 she thinks shes fine she going out whith frankinstine shes hip shes fat she needs a tic-tac not a tic not a tac but the hole six pack im sorry to be mean but she needs some listrine not a sip not a swallow but the hole bottle
-Timothy, 2/2/2006 http://www.cocojams.com/taunting_rhymes.htm

In my next post to this thread, I'll present my guesses as to the sources for the some of the rhymes' verses and references.


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 11:33 AM

As I mentioned, some character is the 2003 film: "Dickie Roberts: Former Child Star" recited this insult rhyme. That accounts for why it is so well known. But, imo, this rhyme is so popular because kids like creative dissin [insult] rhymes that rhyme.

Here's my thoughts about some of the sources for that "BrickWall Waterfall rhyme":

ABC - The Jackson's song hit "ABC"
"Hit It"- a commonly said command in R&B and Hip Hop songs [and perhaps popularized by some artist whose name I can't think of but I can hear him saying it-I'm thinking MC Hammer, but then again probably not.

****

"thats the way uh huh uh huh
i like it uh huh uh huh
thats the way uh huh uh huh"
Title and refrain of hit song by K.C. & The Sunshine Band-release date October 15, 1999

****
"Brickwall waterfall" [here's a stretch-but it feels right to me]
The old children's game "Water-flower".

I know I mentioned this game in another thread, but it's not coming up in the DigiTrad or the archived threads, so here's the words to one version of that pantomine game song:

Water-flower, water-flower, grow-in up so tall,
All the young ladies will sure-ly, sure-ly die,
All except Miss 'Lin-dy Wat-kins, She is every where.
The white folks say, The white folks say,* Turn your back and tell your beau's name

[slightly faster]
Doctor Doctor can you tell
What will make poor Lin-dy well?
She is sick and 'bout to die.
That will make poor Johnnie cry.
Marry, marry, marry quick.
'Lindy, you are just love sick.

John-nie is a very nice man.
Come to the door with hat in his hand.
Pulls off his gloves and shows his rings.
'Mor-row is the wed-ding day
-source: Altona Trent Johns: "Play Songs of the Deep South" {Washington D.cC., The Associated Publishers, Inc,, 1944; p. 11}

* this line suggests that these children heard this rhyme or at least part of this rhyme from White folks.

****

"Boom with that attitude!" {more commonly given as "Poof with that attitude" -I'm not sure where this comes from, but it is omnipresent in street attitude rhymes & is usually accompanied by that 'don't even go there" hand gesture {palm up in a stop gesture, but held to the right side of your face with your face averted to the left and your facial expression stern}

****
"peace punch" source??? ; maybe just a rhyming phrase for-
Captain Crunch- brand name of American cereal

"Bang bang cho cho train" etc- commonly used verse in dance style cheerleader chants

"7-Up" -brand of soft drink

"Tic Tac"- brand of candy/mouth freshener

"Listerine"-brand of mouth wash


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Mo the caller
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 01:49 PM

Azizi - Your water flowers are in the DigiTrad as Water water wallflowers.
The version my mother sang was -
Wallflowers wallflowers growing up so high
All you young ladies will surely have to die
[Except ----, she's the fairest of them all;
    She can dance, she can sing,
    And she can wear a wedding ring ]*
Turn, turn, turn again, turn your back to the wall again.

* I made the middle lines up, must have been something like that
A wallflower is an English flower (related to cabbage and radish) that can grow with very little soil, or even out of the cracks of old walls
A wallflower is also a girl without a partner at a dance.

Do you think that the link came before or after this game with its suggestion of dieing an Old Maid?


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 03:39 PM

Hmmm.

It also occurs to me that the "Brick wall" part of that rhyme could have originated in The Commodores' 1977 R&B hit "Brick House". This song praised a stacked [well built] woman with these words:

Artist: The Commodores Lyrics
Song: Brick House Lyrics

Chorus:
She's a brick----house
Mighty mighty, just lettin' it all hang out
She's a brick----house
The lady's stacked and that's a fact,
ain't holding nothing back.

She's a brick----house
She's the one, the only one,
who's built like a amazon
We're together everybody knows,
and here's how the story goes.

Verse:
1. She knows she got everything
a woman needs to get a man, yeah.
How can she use, the things she use
36-24-36, what a winning hand!


(Chorus)


Verse:
2. The clothes she wears, the sexy ways,
make an old man wish for younger days
She knows she's built and knows how to please
Sure enough to knock a man to his knees

(Chorus)

Bridge:
Shake it down, shake it down now (repeat)

source: http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/undercoverbrother/brickhouse.htm

-snip-

It may be that both these possibilities are valid [or neither one is valid]. I don't think children spend very much time [if they spend any time at all] trying to figure out the meaning of a rhyme. For instance, I think that children hear "Brick Wall/Water Fall" as words that make sense to them :o) and rhyme..The meaningfulness is important, but it's the sound of the rhyme that trumps everything else AND the fact that the rest of the rhyme fits into a familiar pattern of two sentence rhymes that children are familiar with.

I don't think that children say to themselves "When I say brick wall/water fall" I'm calling that girl [or guy] a wallflower.

In other words, I think adults speculate about these questions of source materials and meanings. Kids say & do rhymes as a means of self-entertainment without getting heavy duty about them.

Btw, Mo. Thanks for giving me [and others] the opportunity to think out loud about children's rhymes on this thread and other threads that you have recently started.


Azizi


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:11 PM

OK, I came to this thread late, but…

Mo: What does the title of this thread mean?
What song are you referring to?
Where did it come from?
What other thread are you referring to?

Please, people, if you want to start a new thread to discuss something that is going on in another thread, give us some links! Give us some information! Don't simply assume everyone just finished reading the same thing you were reading!


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:41 PM

Sorry Jim.
I was referring to Azizi's "Lyr Req: Kid's rhymes: Big Mac, Coca Cola & more" thread (no. 91948) and Little Robyn and Azizi's posts 03 June 6.35 PM onwards, about the variations on the Girl Guide camp fire song Ram sam sam. Some people didn't know the original song so I was imagining a future Mudcat discussion, tracing the version I quoted at the top of my thread back through various half forgotten versions and cultural refences.

I didn't imagine the thread sticking around very long.

Point taken


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:58 PM

Mo - What the Hell are the ACTIONs for the Luke Sky Walker/ Jabba the Hutt / Darth Vader verse ??


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:09 PM

So I suppose 2026 refers to the YEAR 2026? That wasn't clear, either.


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:28 PM

Jim - Its a REALLY silly Childrens song with actions !! There have been ALL sorts of extra verses added by 'The Folkies' !!


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: Mo the caller
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 04:38 PM

Leadfingers, Azizi quotes it from Source:http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php posted by mandi at April 26, 2006
{the poster identified herself {himself?} as a college freshman}

I can't find it on that site so I don't know if actions are given.

Jim, I did mean the year 2026. How many words are you allowed in a thread title? I couldn't work out how to phrase it concisely, and obviously failed.


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: GUEST,deppends
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:06 AM

you know the brick wall waterfall song...
DO you guys know the actions to it or where to get them or wztch them?


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Subject: RE: 2026 Mudcat origins question
From: GUEST,deppends
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:10 AM

in the movie dickie roberts the lil girl sings it with actions!


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