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BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism

Lizzie Cornish 16 Jun 06 - 10:36 AM
Ernest 16 Jun 06 - 10:48 AM
Lizzie Cornish 16 Jun 06 - 11:10 AM
GUEST 16 Jun 06 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,Different guest 16 Jun 06 - 11:24 AM
Lizzie Cornish 16 Jun 06 - 11:30 AM
GUEST 16 Jun 06 - 11:34 AM
Lizzie Cornish 16 Jun 06 - 11:46 AM
GUEST 16 Jun 06 - 11:51 AM
Richard Bridge 16 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM
Lizzie Cornish 16 Jun 06 - 12:11 PM
GUEST 16 Jun 06 - 01:00 PM
Les in Chorlton 16 Jun 06 - 01:08 PM
Lizzie Cornish 16 Jun 06 - 01:48 PM
Les in Chorlton 16 Jun 06 - 01:56 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jun 06 - 02:12 PM
Lizzie Cornish 16 Jun 06 - 05:14 PM
Tootler 16 Jun 06 - 06:41 PM
Dave Hanson 17 Jun 06 - 02:25 AM
Lizzie Cornish 17 Jun 06 - 07:08 AM
Dave Hanson 17 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,Jon 17 Jun 06 - 11:52 AM
Tootler 17 Jun 06 - 05:34 PM
Lizzie Cornish 17 Jun 06 - 06:26 PM
Lizzie Cornish 17 Jun 06 - 06:30 PM
GUEST,Jon 17 Jun 06 - 07:05 PM
Lizzie Cornish 18 Jun 06 - 04:22 AM
Fiona 18 Jun 06 - 03:01 PM
Nigel Parsons 18 Jun 06 - 03:24 PM
Lizzie Cornish 18 Jun 06 - 03:52 PM
BuckMulligan 18 Jun 06 - 04:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 18 Jun 06 - 05:14 PM
Lizzie Cornish 18 Jun 06 - 05:19 PM
BuckMulligan 18 Jun 06 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 18 Jun 06 - 06:27 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 06 - 06:38 PM
Dave Hanson 19 Jun 06 - 04:37 AM
GUEST 19 Jun 06 - 04:47 AM
The Barden of England 19 Jun 06 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,Jon 19 Jun 06 - 05:27 AM
Lizzie Cornish 19 Jun 06 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,Jon 19 Jun 06 - 06:24 AM
The Barden of England 19 Jun 06 - 06:59 AM
Lizzie Cornish 19 Jun 06 - 08:22 AM
Fiona 19 Jun 06 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,stevethesqueeze 19 Jun 06 - 09:02 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 19 Jun 06 - 09:02 AM
Lizzie Cornish 19 Jun 06 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,Jon 19 Jun 06 - 09:22 AM
GUEST 19 Jun 06 - 09:34 AM
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Subject: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:36 AM

Are you all happy for Folk And Acoustic music to be only spoken about on the Folk and Acoustic board?

...or do you want your music to be out there alongside everybody else? Played in *mainstream* BBC radio programmes, from Radio 1 to Radio 6?

I'm coming up against Music Racism on the new 'Music Club' board, as apparently, despite it being a place where they invite you to talk about music for which you have 'a passion and love'....I'm NOT allowed to talk about Show of Hands or Seth Lakeman as I've been told that they (and I presume therefore many others too) should only be discussed on the F&A board!

So...are you into Music Racism? Or do you believe in One Music?

And do you think that World Music should be on Radio 2 mainstream as well?

And could it please be possible for any of the Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang Of Pathetic Suspects' to not come on this thread to hurl their usual 'She's A Troll!' abuse at me.

..I LOVE this music...so darn well get over it guys!

What do you think? Music Racism or One Music?


Lizzie :0)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Ernest
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:48 AM

Special interest. Please stop using the term "racism" inflationately. Real racism is not as harmless as the question if a kind of music is played during daytime.
Best wishes
Ernest


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:10 AM

Ernest, I take your point. However......it is folk and acoustic music that has the guts to stand up and shout out about racism in the first place.....and that message, along with all the others within it..is NOT being allowed to get out!

Take for instance this wonderful man..Vinnie Jones, a blend of Bruce Springsteen and Martin Luther King:

http://www.myspace.com/vinniejames

His songs are all about man's inhumanity to man! Vinnie is part African/part Native American, so I'm sure he knows all about racism.
Take a look at his blogs on slavery and the 'n' word, he's trying to get it taken out of the dictionary, and quite right too!

But if the twits over on the Music Club board got their way, I'd not be allowed to tell people about Vinnie's music, which has the power to spread a wonderful message...and that CAN'T be right!

There is only ONE type of music...and that should be spoken about by all of us, no matter what it may be. Vinnie's music is deeply important as is the music of many others in the folk and acoustic world.

It just makes me fume that it is not having a voice out there in mainstream radio and TV....and it's time it was changed!


Lizzie :0)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:19 AM

Vinnie Jones.. folk singer !!??

I'd imagine he'd do great versions of macho trad songs
about shooting and fighting..

.. and more shooting and fighting


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Different guest
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:24 AM

I'm with Ernest. You aren't using the word racism in a fair way.

Music prejudice, yes. But while music prejudice does sometimes rise to the level of racism, it doesn't in this particular context.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:30 AM

If you're going to insult artists, I'd suggest you have the guts to at least identify yourself, Cowardly 'Guest' And...for your information:

From Vinnie's 'All American Boy' CD, his song 'Freedom Cried'

"...I remember the red man he was proud and free. Down through the years he's been a real good friend to me. I let him sell me almost everything he had. Then I just took the rest when times got bad.

Then freedom cried and she kept me up all night......

I remember the black man, he was tall and strong. I always knew I couldn't hold him down for long. I never understood why I made him a slave. He never understood the reasons I gave...."

So I'd suggest you do some research and get to know his music and beliefs before you start hurling your negative words around!



But, as usual this is getting off thread....can we try and keep to the subject if possible.

Are you happy to have F&A music never discussed openly on any other BBC board than the F&A one?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:34 AM

errrmm.. proof read your own writing
before flying off your broomstick handle dizzy lizzie


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:46 AM

Sigh!

Are you happy to have F&A music never discussed openly on any other BBC board than the F&A one?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:51 AM

lizzie.. for flips sake !!??

"Take for instance this wonderful man..Vinnie Jones, a blend of Bruce Springsteen and Martin Luther King:"


now go pour yourself a cool glass of pop
and calm down a bit


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

It may be ghettoisation, but it isn't racism.

Lizzie, you do remember who the other Vinnie Jones is don't you?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 12:11 PM

Sorry!!

Vinnie JAMES!!!


VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES, VINNIE JAMES!


(Oh Shucks! How Embarrassing Smiley!)

;0)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:00 PM

so then Lizzie..

if you ever need any help in 'persuading'disagreeable BBC forum users......


http://www.pwagroup.com/celebs/celebs.asp?filter=Actors&celeb=324



BTW.. now you put the idea in my head..

I seriously think Mr Jones could be an excellent folk singer
and ideal personality for popularising
the more 'manly' aspects of our folk music culture


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:08 PM

I guess some people would rather spot a typo than address a difficult and important point Lizzie.

In reality many genre of music blend from one to another. It suits the BBC to compartmentalise music for resons of their own. As a consequence they compartmentalise the forums (fora?).

It makes for drab exchanges that relect narrow, drab music. The Mudcat, now that's a bit different. You can say anything you like on here and some people will ignore your central theme and go for the typo! I poked fun at somebody or other yonks ago was accused of "causing trouble on websites"!

Keep posting, you know you have a good point, deep breathing?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:48 PM

Thanks Les. ((xx))

Sometimes I just get so exasperated that this music is hidden away. But I'm going to keep on keeping on over there and to hell with the lot of them!

And Guest Plonker above, you're right Mr. Jones IS a great folk singer...

I'll start a thread on Nic over there shortly! It's way overdue that more people knew about his music too!


:0)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:56 PM

So much good music so little time!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 02:12 PM

I agree with you Lizzie.
Why should the musical elite declare a rich and varied genre to be unworthy of consideration alongside their stuff?
Thanks for raising the issue.
keith.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 05:14 PM

This is a link to the BBC 'Music Club' board, where I started a similar thing earlier on:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3163834&latest=1#p36636632


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Tootler
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 06:41 PM

Lizzie,

If you really want to see the Beeb's attitudes to our Folk Music, follow this link and click on "Roots".

Whose music do you notice is missing?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:25 AM

Lizzie, you of all people should know what a pile of crap BBC message boards are, and as to the BBC attitude to folk music, it plays what it plays because it is OBLIGED to by it's charter, the BBC would be happy if it could get away with just playing pop and classical.

eric


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 07:08 AM

Tootler....that's bad isn't it! When are we going to realise that the music of ALL of us is important and that the English come under World/Roots music right alongside everyone else.

Eric ;0)....The BBC boards are basically appallingly modded and they are, in my opinion, visited by small group of total control freaks! Freedom of discussion is not permitted, just take a look at what Paul Sherratt and his buddies have done to the Show of Hands one on the new Music Club board, and before you tell me I'm rabbitting on about SoH again and it puts people off, I merely chose them as my FIRST thread on there, because Johnnie Walker has started playing their music on his Sunday show over the last few weeks, plus Steve was recently on Radio 4 as 'Country Life' has been chosen for the soundtrack of a new film on the problems in the countryside. This was shown in the House of Commons last Monday....as always All Hell Broke Loose!! My first post has been removed btw, although WHY when I am on Pre-Mod in the first place, I have no idea!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F4387184?thread=3146306


I'm aiming to talk about loads of other people too, but keep following the BBC link above, as that discussion grows and watch the control freaks telling me that I musn't talk about folk music on any other board than the F&A one.

Oh...and last night, someone else started a thread on Karine Polwart on there...now interestingly, she's not been harrassed to death over that, as I am being over the SoH one...and it's raising interest as people over there don't know about Karine! I've put masses of info and links on about her in Message 3, but....the Mods still haven't allowed it on! Grrrrrrr...!

Those boards could be used for such good! They could open up so many closed minds and get people thinking! But no....they are controlled by The Weird Ones and the BBC is happy to let it happen.

Folk music has been held in a box for way too long, English music in particular, often being kept locked away by the very control freaks I'm talking about. Well....the time has come to throw the box away and let it out.

*BUT* it won't get out if everyone sits on boards for er...folk music, where you are all talking only to each other.....

TALK TO THOSE WHO **DON'T KNOW!**

For....."Without our stories or our songs, how will we know where we came from?" Steve Knightley 'Roots'


Lizzie :0)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM

Lizzie, I may or may not agree with your opinions about SOH but NO-ONE has the right to CENSOR o BAN your opinions unles you are being offensive and I've never known you to be so.

At least here on the Mudcat you will be treat like an adult, and if someone has a go at you it's mostly done in fun, unlike the BBC boards.

eric


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:52 AM

Lizzie, I would agree the BBC boards have terrible troubles with mods (usualy every inconsistant and at times illogical and plain wrong application of the house rules) and that the house rules are too rigid and they can make some discussions on folk music impossibe.

I however see nothing wrong in some segragation and desire to keep boards reasonably on topic. I believe this is far more important at the BBC than most Internet forums simply because of thier volume of traffic and the number of specaiist areas they try to cater for.

Dave Hanson has given his view above, comparing the BBC to Mudcat but I don't think that comparison takes all factors into account. Although, personally I do perfer increased breakdown of categories into logical areas, Mudcat is small enough to cater for all its discussion into 2 areas without to many problems but I don't believe it would be workable on the BBC site which under it's current structure I believe has hundreds of areas each with it's own followers whether it be football, cricket, various forms of music, individual tv and radio programs, local interest disucssion for each county, etc.

To drift breiefly into censorship and Dave's comments, Mudcat is not going to make the national headlines or get sued for posts in their forums, etc. Applied badly, or otherwise, I can see needs to be tighter than here.

If there is abosolute refusal to allow any OT comments at all in some of the BBC boards, it is something I would probably disagree with but I can't say I've experienced problems with the occasional aside in any of their boards I have used or have I reference to non-folk, eg rock, music in the BBC folk and accoustic board.

Where I would be more likely to agree is if a board is getting bombarded with OT stuff. I haven't looked through the example given towards the top of the thread but I know your posting history in F&A well Lizie.

Apart from getting banned and having duplicate membership identities, it has included several repeated rants and or/crusades in the F & A, perpetual SOH promotion etc. My initail reaction knowing that is perhaps you have just been pissing people off again.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Tootler
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 05:34 PM

Tootler....that's bad isn't it! When are we going to realise that the music of ALL of us is important and that the English come under World/Roots music right alongside everyone else.

Absolutely. Especially as the traditional music scene is particularly vibrant here in North East England and there is a distinctive local repertoire of both songs and traditional dance tunes plus there are probably more people than ever playing Northumbrian Pipes (not me, unfortunately - I have enough on coping with my Anglo ).

We also have Folkworks encouraging and supporting traditional music and running classes and workshops plus an excellent set of summer schools.

If that's not Roots music what is?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:26 PM

I think the North East has a far stronger sense of identity than most other regions in the country. And to overlook you like that....makes me fair seethe! But then...I'm doing a lot of that lately I'm afraid.

From Jon:

<<<>>>

First of all Jon, I have posted very little about Show of Hands on the new BBC boards which have been up and running for over a year now. And the *only* reason that the whole Show of Hands thing started in the first place was that from the very first day I arrived on that board all hell broke loose about them, apparently because I DARED to talk positively about Steve and Phil...and EXACTLY the same thing is now happening on the Music Club board..it is uncanny!

Secondly, despite a few hurtful posts over there from you Jon, particularly lately, I have, not once *ever* behaved in such a manner to you. Perhaps you'd care to think on that, before posting any more words like the ones above, however it is your freedom to think of me in whatever way that seems to make you happy.

As far as your words 'pissing people off' go, I'll just say that I have always written, and will continue to write, in the way that I have a right to and that is, the way which is entirely natural to me. I will *never* write as others tell me to, nor will I write ONLY about the subjects or artists you or your friends so desire or deem to be 'acceptable'

And, if you care to remember I started a thread where I quite openly listed and admitted to the names that I had, just before Mel let me back on under my original name. Don't you remember? Surely you do....Naughty Lizzie, Show of Hands Susie, Elsie (LC)....and for your information anyone can change their 'nickname' at anytime on the BBC board these days, it is on the screen each time you post. Mind you, they've fixed mine now...ever since I changed my name to 'Thegirltheycouldn'thang' after those two weeks of unadulterated bullying that went on.

I am my own person and I refuse to be turned into a Stepford Wife by a few fiercely controlling people who inhabit messageboards! And if that is, to use your words again, 'pissing people off' well.....Hard Luck!

Anyway, this is not about me, it is about whether folk music should be spoken about freely and openly on all BBC boards, and in all places.

Oh..and Eric, many thanks for your kind words.

Lizzie


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:30 PM

These are Jon's words I was referring to, they didn't appear in the post above.

From Jon:

"Apart from getting banned and having duplicate membership identities, it has included several repeated rants and or/crusades in the F & A, perpetual SOH promotion etc. My initail reaction knowing that is perhaps you have just been pissing people off again."


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 07:05 PM

Secondly, despite a few hurtful posts over there from you Jon, particularly lately

Over where Lizzie? Not the BBC F&A I've only posted to 3 threads since I took a break from the place in April and I can't recall making a single comment directed at you in that time.

I've no wish to dictate to anyone what bands anyone enjoys or don't enjoy and am open to the fact that one's definition of what is folk differs from anothers. None of these things are problems to me.

Where I have had a problem with you is simply that when you know something is causing out and out mayhem, you seem to delight in doing it more. You even described one set of rows as fun, etc. In my earlier days at the BBC, I used to try to defend you and would atill defend your rights to like SOH, state an opinion that differs to mine, etc. but not to do so 20 times over for the sake of a row, and not to defend one single person's unwillingness to give and take a little.

I'm sorry I reached the opinion I have of you Lizzie, but it wasn't for trying to reason with you.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:22 AM

This is from my first message on this thread:

"And could it please be possible for any of the Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang Of Pathetic Suspects' to not come on this thread to hurl their usual 'She's A Troll!' abuse at me."

Thank you.


And now....an apology:

This is for the mysterious 'Guest' in messages 4,7 and 9, who picked me up over getting Vinnie James surname wrong. I said Jones! (oh the embarrassment!)....and I then, in exasperation, referred to said Guest as Guest Plonker.

I shouldn't have done that, not only was it uncalled for, but you were being very funny, I just 'saw red' at the time and didn't see the humour.

So...I'm very sorry if I upset you by calling you a Plonker....it was wrong...and you were right...it WAS funny, as were your posts....I COULD certainly use Vinnie Jones on the BBC boards, as you suggested...particularly on the thread over there, of a similar name to this one.

So...here's a big (((XXX))) for you instead!

Lizzie :0)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Fiona
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:01 PM

Would it please be possible to refrain from using the word 'racism' in this way? It's quite the wrong word, nor are people who disagree with you 'twits'.

eric the red is quite wrong, you've not been 'banned' and are only being pre-moderated because of your behaviour.

As for Vinnie James is it the norm on myspace for artists to ask folk to send them money 'to support a European tour'? It looks like a scam to me.

fx


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:24 PM

FILM STAR: THE EASY LIFE
(Attributed to one V.Jones)   

I'll grant at football I'm past my best.
So from sport I may have to take a rest.
I've a new way to support my sons,
With lock, stock, and my two smoking guns"
       CHO: Toor-a-loora-la, toor-a-loora-lie
             Toor-a-loora-la, toor-a-loora-lie
             I've a new way to support my sons,
             With lock, stock, and two smoking guns"


"My latest film now is "X-Men 3"
And those X-Men may get the best of me.
Professor X reads my every thought,
Yes, it's Vinnie Jones as the Juggernaut!
       CHO: Toor-a-loora-la, toor-a-loora-lie
             Toor-a-loora-la, toor-a-loora-lie
             Professor X reads my every thought,
             Yes, it's Vinnie Jones as the Juggernaut!"




Sorry... thread creep!

Nigel


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:52 PM

Fiona, please read my first post about the Radio 2 gang of pathetic suspects coming over here to insult. If you want to insult me in your usual manner, I would suggest you PM me and spare other people you ignorant comments. I won't open your PM's, but at least you will be able to get it off your chest.

And if I could just point out that at least I have not had to change my name, as you have, from 'fiona nic' to 'faerie nuff' to avoid being tracked back to some damning posts. So PLEASE do not lecture me on behaviour, when you were one of the very instigators of such unpleasantness on that board. Please check out the 'Is This Board Rubbish?' and 'Enough Is Enough' threads, amongst others, if you've forgotten.

Oh and as far as Vinnie James goes....you know nothing whatsoever about him, or how Myspace works for him or for others. When you care as much as he and others do and can write songs such as they are writing, then and only then would I perhaps contemplate listening to what you have to say.

And now...if you would kindly take your highly ludicrous, and as always, deeply insulting, personal comments back to the Radio 2 F&A board, I, and I'm sure others, would be much happier.

However, if you have *anything* worthy to say on the subject of this thread then please feel free to contribute.

Thank you.

Lizzie


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:36 PM

I'm afraid I'm just an ignorant Yank, but educate me: why in hell should ANY particular forum necessarily be forced against its wishes to cater to any particular community who don't seem to be interested in whatever the forum's stated focus is, but who want to focus on something else? No doubt there are people who drop into the mudcat now & again and wish there were more stuff going on here about indie-punk, but there are tons of places devoted to indie punk so why should it upset anyone? (Speaking of Indie punk, look up BravoFuckingBravo, great band, currently touring the US after successful completion of college freshman year by a couple of the member one of whom looks a lot like me)

The point I'm asking I guess is, if this or that particular board doesn't cotton to the kind of palaver ya fancy, why go there? Come here. Screw 'em if they can't talk acoustic.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:14 PM

I am with you, Lizzie, even if the term ;racism; is not quite the right one. It is not just BBC music boards but the establishment in general. If you say you would rather have Jez Lowe than Ladysmith Black Mbazo you are a 'racist'. If you like North West Morris instead of Albanian ethnic dancing you are accused of being against immigration!

It winds me up no end. It is what the right wing nutters use as examples of why the country is 'going to the dogs'. It is seldom the ethic minorities themselves who accuse us of these things either. It is the politicaly correct, offend no-one brigade that make matters worse.

If people would rather have English folk music than Reggae why should they be called racists? If they prefer fish and chips to rogan josh why call them blinkered? If they will not listen to or eat different things at all then by all means educate them. But if they have tried and still prefer English stuff, don't decry them for it.

There, got it of my chest. Step down from the soap box:-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:19 PM

Trouble is this music is not being played in the media is it? It USED to be, but now...it's not.

And unless people go on general music boards and jump and down about that fact, all over the place, write in, write to papers etc. whatever it takes, things will never change!

Folk music is JUST music, same as any other genre. It has every right to be discussed openly on a BBC board which states quite clearly that it is for discussion of music that you love and have a passion for. I shouldn't be 'hounded' because I dare to go over there and talk about people they may never have heard of. WHAT is that all about?

Mudcat is a wonderful place, filled with some lovely people, but it's *only* known about in the folk world. Again..closed doors, fences etc....

This music is way too good to keep shut away.

You may be happy to see it lying in the media's gutter, but I'm not. I know of so many talented people and bands, who, perhaps years ago, would have been 'out there' yet now, they feel, to borrow some ideas from John Young and his band (prog rock) as if they are 'strangers in their own land'

It needs to change. (at least, in my opinion)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:10 PM

Don't blame the media. Unless you're proposing some grim conspiracy, which is highly unlikely, IMO. Any genre of music gets attention in proportion to the bills it pays. Perhaps it galls you to think of the music you love as "niche" but there it is.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:27 PM

: This is from my first message on this thread:
: "And could it please be possible for any of the Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang
: Of Pathetic Suspects' to not come on this thread to hurl their usual
: 'She's A Troll!' abuse at me."

I have never heard of this person before but I know *exactly* what to think when somebody comes across like that at the start of a discussion.

Go away.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:38 PM

> "take your highly ludicrous, and as always, deeply insulting, personal comments back to the Radio 2 F&A board, I, and I'm sure others, would be much happier."

Lizzie, YOU take YOUR highly ludicrous, and as always, deeply insulting, personal comments back to the Radio 2 F&A board. I, and I'm sure others, would be much happier.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:37 AM

At least Lizzie has the courage NOT to hide her identity, unlike the cowardly guest above.

eric


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:47 AM

She's got more false identities than a tone-deaf, professional people smuggler


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Barden of England
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:11 AM

I'm with you Lizzie, although I too think the word 'racism' is a little over the top and that 'prejudice' is probably what you are really trying to say. I also do sometimes think that you can push SOH a bit too much, but you obviously are enthusiastic about them and their music, as am I. I too feel agrieved when people try the put down of 'Take your MOR and snigger/snoggers' in amongst most of their posts. What the hell is wrong with MOR or singer/songwriters? There are many singer/sogwriters who would pass their very blinkered view to my mind, but there you go, and who moderates what is 'Middle of the Road'? We live in a broad church and all the better for it. To my mind it is far better to just say 'I don't like' than to just show ignorance by that petty put-down.
By the way Lizzie - don't just pass us by at the Bedford Sessions at the next Sidmouth Festival. Come in and have a listen - and introduce yourself to me. Just ask for me by name - they know me.
John Barden


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:27 AM

John, let's not confuse the issue. The snigeer snog write comment is not people but just one person. Few bother to critice or Lizze for matters of taste but get fed up with her crusades, Most accept people's tastes vary.

Here is a comment from the BBC F&A board this morning.

"I think the person in question has ruled out a return to this board but I'm not holding my breath.
Recently this board has been quieter but a good deal more civilised and with a greater variety of posters.
I'm very sorry to see that the infant Music Club board has turned into a war zone (all in the name of 'passion')within a few short days."

This is a good indication of the effects Lizzie has and is having on other boards (of which, outside the BBC, she is banned at least from froots). And no, this is not happening because she likes SOH.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:03 AM

I could get into fRoots board anytime Jon. I *choose* not to. I have no argument anymore with Ian Anderson, we agree totally over Myspace at least. But Ian, like you cannot *bear* Smilies...I love them...and so...he locked the door. I never said anything rude on fRoots. I did mention Show of Hands...once...and that was also enough to send his BP up! ;0) Basically Ian has er..banned more people than are left on there. It's a very quiet board, filled with er...self named intellectual types.

Oh..and that quote from the new "Whoopppeee! Let's slag Lizzie Off" thread that has just started over on Radio 2 was put there by another of The Weird Ones from the Music Club, needless to say, he's over on that board, trying to direct people over to the F&A board to join in.

But Jon, I've have been bullied so much lately, that it is now Water Off A Duck's Back! I have had to learn to wrap myself away so tightly from foul words and twisted minds. It got to me...OH HOW it got to me....but never again. NEVER will I let people whose souls are filled with bitterness ever harm my soul again!

So, if I were you, I'd go back with Fiona and all the other Guests or new names who may appear on here, join in that thread, which breaks every House Rule going...and have a thoroughly enjoyable day.

Personally, I'd prefer to write, as I so love to do, about this soul soaring music that has become so important to me.

Thanks very much Jon.




And John, (John Barden to avoid confusion) thank you for your kind words. Yes, I'll come and find you and give you a hug! (that's if, The Weird Ones haven't 'got me' first of course!)

;0) Chuckle!! ;0)

Lizzie


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:24 AM

But Ian, like you cannot *bear* Smilies...I love them...and so...he locked the door.

Was that were you you were posting rows and rows of smilies per post, had a polite request from the site owner to be more sparing with thier use and continued with your "smilie abuse" despite the fact you knew that lines of smiles were annoying the site owner.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Barden of England
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:59 AM

I'm afraid my girth probably wouldn't allow a hug Lizzie :-). Far too much of the falling down water in various hostelries has turned my six-pack into a firkin!

Jon - I take your point in that it is normally the one person who gets on my nerves regarding 'snigger/snoggers' seeing as I'm one of that band, so I'd like to apologise for painting everybody with that particular brush.
John Barden


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:22 AM

'Tis OK John...I like the sound of firkins! ;0)

And Jon, do give it a rest there's a good fellow. I never posted acres of Smilies on Ian's site....he has a fit if you go over two. But, I've a feeling that Ian grins from ear to ear as he zaps us all, one by one....Oh! The power of your own board eh! ;0) Good job Max isn't like that.

Now, if I were you, I'd hurry on over there because Ian needs each and every one of you on his board to fill it out a tiny bit.

Meanwhile, over on the BBC Music Club board, I can no longer post on the Show of Hands, Oysterband or Seth Lakeman threads. I can on the others though. Er...somehow, I don't think it's a technical glitch either...so there we are then. "We don't want your type of music around here!"

APPALLING behaviour by the BBC, and one I shall be making yet another official complaint about, although I've already made *two* and not heard a thing...yet.

Hey ho!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Fiona
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:44 AM

In between complaints I'd suggest you look up what 'racism' means, the misuse in this thread title is objectionable, even more so since you're bandying Martin Luther Kings name about. I'm glad the BBC have removed it.

And I've just looked at Vinnie James myspace site again. It's quite clear, he's asking people to send him $20 so he can tour Europe, in return you'll get a 'free cd' which you can buy on Amazon for $1.98.

No dates planned, so if he doesn't tour will he send folks back their money?

This is just making me cross, so it's my final word.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,stevethesqueeze
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:02 AM

In my humble opinion Racism is the wrong word. But I think there is prejudice against folk and acoustic music in the manstream and I accept that it is a minority interest. For me though I don't mind. I hate comercial radio and the whole commercial music scene. I am rather glad and a little bit proud to be seperate from the mainstream. But thats my own opinion.

stevethesqueeze


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:02 AM

: Meanwhile, over on the BBC Music Club board, I can no longer post on the Show of Hands,
: Oysterband or Seth Lakeman threads. I can on the others though. Er...somehow, I don't think
: it's a technical glitch either...

Of course not. They're an entertainment business, why should they give a platform for boring self-righteous people to drive their audience away?

Now go away.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:11 AM

Apologies to folks for this, but it has to be said:


Lordy, I do hope so Fiona!

And er...Vinnie already has some dates booked up for next year. He's hoping to come and live over here, actually. The reason being? He is desperate to get his message spread, as are very many people in this world Fiona, and that message is that we all need to change.

If you took the trouble to look a little deeper you would find song after song of his that deals with our children, drug addicts, corruption, apathy, racism!

Steve over at The Acoustic Stage, was so impressed that he got Vinnie's music over almost immediately, take a look. He's hopefully playing at Otterton Mill, down the road from Sidmouth next year, as once more, the man who runs it was deeply impressed. I'm sure he will have many other offers coming in too. I certainly hope so.

You have, in my opinion, a very deeply suspicious mind Fiona. It is what has twisted your view of me and given you the zeal to try and twist the views of others.

Before you go round messageboards slagging people off I'd suggest you find out a bit more about them first!

And I presume YOU have asked the BBC to remove a post of mine then, where I brought up the fact that Vinnie has the passion of Springsteen mixed with the compassion of Martin Luther King? Shame on you! Absolute SHAME! Because that is exactly what he is about Fiona! Although HOW Vinnie aims to turn people's views around when people such as yourself malign him in that way....I've no idea...but I'll tell you something...he won't give up, no matter what you decide to throw at him!

So...is Vinnie going to become the new 'hate figure' in your campaign....or do I still feature as No 1!

I wish you well in your twisted, mixed-up world....but do not bring it to my door again!

And talk not to me of racism!!!! I may be the same colour as you, I may not, but your's and others attitudes to me is exactly the same thing!

"You are not one of us"
"You do not belong here"
"You are a troll"
"You are lower than the lowest form of human"
"We do not want to hear what you have to say"
"We do not want to hear your music"
"We do not want you"

SHAMEFUL....yet...DEEPLY illuminating!

Racisim is about hatred and fear. It is about one form of people deciding they are better than others. And one 'tribe' of people being fearful of others. It is about darkly dominating things, that should never be, but sadly are....it is all around us and...at present...for many people...it is getting worse!!!!

And the VERY PEOPLE who are writing about it, who have experienced it first hand and who are trying to make a difference are the VERY PEOPLE whom you choose to DAMN!!!


Look into your soul 'Fiona' *whoever* you may be!   

And look DEEP!



Lizzie


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:22 AM

"You are not one of us"
"You do not belong here"
"You are a troll"
"You are lower than the lowest form of human"
"We do not want to hear what you have to say"
"We do not want to hear your music"
"We do not want you"


Sounds like you should go eat worms, Lizze.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:34 AM

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:22 AM

"You are not one of us"
"You do not belong here"
"You are a troll"
"You are lower than the lowest form of human"
"We do not want to hear what you have to say"
"We do not want to hear your music"
"We do not want you"

Sounds like you should go eat worms, Lizze.

============================================

Is it any wonder that Lizzie gets put out. Shame on you GUEST, Jon. Is that the best you can do? The lowest common denominator just doesn't cover it!! Don't answer GUEST, Jon - Lizzie. Don't give them the satisfaction


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