Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Barden of England
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:32 PM

Not me countess richard. Been watching Joni Mitchell on BBC Four, and a bit of Robyn Hitchcock.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:40 PM

Eh?
Who's Robyn Hitchcock anyway?
(Good grief, sounds dodgy).
This thread is so pointlessly bizarre I feel I must sprint to the pub.
I do hope the television's not on.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Barden of England
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:44 PM

My father was one of the Monty's Desert Rats and fought up and down the desert, onto Sicily and then up through Italy until he was badly wounded and shipped back home in 1944 to see his son, who was four years old, for the first time. He was fighting the very same fascists that you quite rightly attack and I would never forsake his memory for that cause be assured.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: growler
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:47 PM

John, I'm with you on that, My Dad was in the eighth army, at that time, and I hold his memory dear

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Stu
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 04:39 AM

"Fuck your 'well-intentioned' debate"

It's nice to see that the standard of wordsmith attracted to journalism is as high as ever. Which illustrious organs do you write for? Wouldn't be the Daily Mail by any chance?

All of us with family who fought and died in the war take exception to being called facists - the consquences of that conflict are still with many people today. It's all too easy to hurl words like that around as we've seen, but it's a cheap shot and reminds me of one or two who used to frequent this site and used the same tactic.

Seen as well-intentioned debate is fucked here, time to abandon thread to her ladyship et al.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:17 AM

Hmmmmm, as I wrote in the 'let's give a platform to those nice racists and fascists' thread:
Don't.
It's not 'well-intended debate'.
It's dangerous and misguided.
Anyway, stigweard, who the fuck called you a fascist? No-one that I can see. You're not Norman Tebbit with a silly handle, are you?
And, as I also said in the other thread, I intend to remain free to think and say and write what I like.
So I'll say 'fuck' when I want. It's only four letters and you can spell it. Unlike 'fasCist'.

Fasces (Latin): a bundle of sticks tied round an axe.
Fascismo - a term coined by Benito Mussolini

This inordinately long thread is supposed to be about a SONG (and not a very good one). OK, you like it. You can listen to it. Do you really imagine a government housed in an English parliament led by this show of tossers would let you? Do you?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Dave Earl
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:46 AM

Yet again we have an example of the language used by "I'm a (sometimes) working journlist".

A thought occurs to me. Why only sometimes?

Could it be that there is not much demand for a journalist (note my spelling) who uses that style of writing?

I can't imagine any publication that I might buy wanting an article written using that language/style.

Please be aware CR that I have been insulted and slagged off in better style and in better English than you have ever managed in postings I have seen on this forum.

Dave

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:56 AM

Oh dear.
The man in the silly hat strolls by again.
Who's insulted and slagged you off then?
Not me, I've hardly noticed you but you chose to insult ME by referring to me as a 'lady'.
Since you ask, I 'sometimes' do any number of things, including writing, and 'sometimes' nothing.
By choice, you see.
I'm a) a freelance and b) retired.
Though I can't imagine of what relevance any of this is.
Haven't you anything better to do?
I have and it doesn't include listening to SoH.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Dave Earl
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:01 AM

Call me over sensative if you like but :-

"Fuck off Dave.
And I ain't no lady.
Don't you READ previous posts?
I'm a (sometimes) working journlist.
So fuck off.
OK?"
is hardly a compliment.

As it happens I am at work (and have been since 07:00 this morning).

I can multitask when it suits me.

Dave

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:11 AM

I'd NEVER call you 'sensative' (or even sensitive).
But don't let me keep you from your McJob (are you playing Roots and other MOR garbage?)
Just quit telling what I can say and write.
Unless and until Tebbit and his Freedom Association crew take over I'm free to do and say what I like.
Now fuck off.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Dave Earl
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:24 AM

Spelling error competion =

CR 1 Me 1 result a draw.

You probably don't want to know but I am working in a Concert Hall where the music comes from across the whole range from Classical through MOR to pop/rock and occasionally folk type stuff.

I am not trying to tell you what to write/say I am just suggesting that you might get a less antagonistic response if you were to moderate your language.

Dave

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:54 AM

You may as well try to plait sand, Dave. There are people that actualy produce things, be they art, literature or music and there are those who critisise said works. Those who make a living by reviewing other peoples work and telling everyone else what to think are not worth worth arguing with. They will often wield clever words and phrases that make people think they are producing works of art themselves but all they ever create is dischord and unrest. I do not think I am being overly harsh in saying that the media have played a huge role in todays hatred of the west by fundementalist Moslems and vice versca. Somtime press can create their own wars. Sometimes.

Dave.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:08 AM

(closes eyes) One.... two.....

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Dave Earl
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:30 AM

Well I suppose I should know better.

I have crossed paths (and swords) with CR elsewhere in the past.

It seems that from the Ms Easby standpoint the rest of the world has got it wrong and only she has the right answer. I can live with that as a concept (not accept it though)but I find the bad language unpleasant and prefer not to hear such things etc from anyone (man/woman or lady/gent if you prefer).

It seems to me that if someone is cofident enough in thier beliefs they should be able to justify whatever it is without the use of bad language.

Now if herself doesn't agree with me (she doesn't have to)I'll just let things rest leave her to her own devices.

That doesn't equate to doing what she is fond of telling people to do.

Dave

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 09:19 AM

Firstly, I will use whatever language I please to express what I have to say.
I do have a lot to choose from and tend to tailor it to suit the audience,
As it goes, I'm not overkeen on the language you employ, finding it patronising, sexist, outdated, overbearing and crass.
All that's really getting up some of your noses (the SoH fanbase) is that I have two major criticisms of the song Roots.
I said when it first emerged (well over a year ago) that it was musically mediocre and lyrically, a rant bordering on the racist.
Some of the 'rest of the world' agree with me, others (including yourselves) apparently do not.
So fucking what? It's only a song.
Nobody in the present political climate is preventing you from listening to it, nor indeed forcing me to hear it.
I am not expressing 'my beliefs' in the form of language you prissily shy from, but my disdain for your idiotic male chauvinism.
Someone somewhere called me a 'man hater'. As a matter of fact I know not whether some of you are male or not. It's just that you act like a shower of pricks lacking the ability for constructive thought and hunting your quarry in a mindless, baying pack.

Goodbye, little boys.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Dave Earl
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 09:36 AM

When did I express an opinion on Roots? As it happens I have not heard it so I have no comment to make.

My issue was what I said it to be - the use of the F word by someone who I think doesn't need to use it.

You tailor your language to suit the situation do you? Hm

Think on! Think on!

Dave

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 09:58 AM

You haven't heard Roots?
Well lucky you, but what the fuck are you doing posting in a thread of which it's the subject?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Dave Earl
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:02 AM

Second line of my previous post - please read

Dave

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:17 AM

So you are a self-appointed member of the Fuck Police?
YOU think I 'don't need to' write in the way I do?
I write to topic.
Example: The only thing I don't like about SoH is . . . SoH.
Knightley is an adequate songwriter, Beer a really good musician . . . blah blah blah . . .

YOU stick your nose into threads about which you are spectacularly unqualified to comment.
Think I know who's breaching netiquette here.
Sod off.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Dave Earl
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:23 AM

Still not impressed.

Thank you for your lack of consideration.

Leaving now

I have a life and friends.

Goodbye

Dave

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM

If you are not one of the almost 30,000 that have now seen the video, here it is again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5h4PFBuzvw

On the "racist" thing, Steve Knightley actually did tackle those issues here, in his chat with Mike Harding on Wednesday. The interview is only 4 minutes long. It is worth hearing him explain it in his own words. It is on listen again until this Wednesday coming. It is around 10 -15 minutes in if I remeber right.

I shall continue to give him stick on the "Estuary English" barb though...and a rather good song about Buddy Holly.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM

Hey, thought this might amuse:

Who are you listening to at the moment?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:40 AM

Diane, no I don't think Cruel River will be quite your thing. Well, perhaps other than the Mark Knopfler song on it.

I think you might like what is in Phil Beer's upcoming box set though. I think that box is a Knightley-free zone but I couldn't swear to that.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:46 AM

Hi Keith, yes, saving my pennies for the Phil box.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 10:53 AM

Keep an eye out here then

http://www.chudleighroots.co.uk/

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST,sailorboy
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 08:23 AM

Just appeared on Phil Beers tour diary!!


And so to a busy day at Norden Farm arts Centre. We sold the evening show a couple of weeks ago and put in a matinee for four in the afternoon. This was in the studio theatre. We couldn't move over to the main auditorium because there was another show on. When we got there we discovered that the main event was a day of indian dance for youngsters featuring both traditional and film style dance. The large and partly communal backstage area was a riot of colour and exuberance as groups of kids practised and sorted their glorious costumes out and, as I put on my plain black trousers and a fresh black shirt and polished (you guessed it) the black guitar, I was struck once again by the contrast between what I 'm doing and what these kids were involved in. They were all born around Maidenhead/Slough/Reading but were full bloodedly celebrating culture from their parents homeland. They were up for it, wanted to do it and were having a ball doing it. I had a chat with some of the mums and took some pictures. The kids came to see the guitars and fiddles. As I did my thing I was aware of all this going on the other side of the door. (Quite inspiring really) My knowledge of our musical traditions only came about by a series of happy accidents and by being in the right places at the right time. What if I hadn't come across Davy Grahams 'Folk Blues and beyond' when I was fourteen, What if Katy Fincham hadn't become fascinated by the English concertina and taken me to The Jolly Porter Folk club. What if Pete and Mike Gaskell hadn't started the Double Locks club and booked people like Cyril Tawney and their very own Bob Cann. (Sticklepath boys).
We've lost more than we'll ever know etc etc
Anyway. Great gigs. Miranda was as always superb and Isambarde made a host of new friends. Thanks Mike and Ruth. Onwards and upwards!! See you at Nettlebed

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST,Sam Collins
Date: 01 May 07 - 12:53 PM

"except for the bullets, except for the guns, except for the youth thats gone" michael Franti and Spearhead, Light Uh Ya Lighter, "your net profit stats speak of murderous facts" The Coup, piss on your grave "they ain't teachin' us how to get crack out of the ghetto" Dead Prez, they Schools, "New world Water make the tide run high, run inland make your house go by" Mos Def, New World Water "Where are the weapons of mass Desruction" The Perceptionists, Memorial Day "Television, tell a lie vision, a schism, Negative realism" Pete Rock and C.L. smooth, Anger in the Nation.
I think Show of Hands complain about American rap because they can actually write good rather than farcial political songs about things   that are actually currentely relevent to society. But I suppose blacks arn't "THE WAY WE LOOK" so they shouldn't be listened too.

A masterace of farmers will reign supreme, burn the urbanites in their apartment blocks. Comit incest, hunt foxes, only trust your fellow tweedites, protect our heritige.


ok i'm taking the piss now but my previous comments stands this song is still racist( "The way we look and the way we talk")

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 02 May 07 - 05:24 AM

Any of you lot coming to Pocklington on thursday to see Steve Knightley perform then? See you there!

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 May 07 - 05:43 AM

OK, Sam, I answered your point about racism but you shose to ignore my answer and still keep trying to play the color card. Fair enough, your life, you clearly won't be persuaded...

But don't give me American rap "relevence(sic) to society". Not only me at 54, but my daughter at 21 and son at 25 find bugger all relevance in the rhymes-for-the-sake-of-rhymes or the pseudopolitical sloganeering (I quote back at you the examples you mentioned in your last message). Sorry, mate, slogans without thought and no ideals isn't politics - it's only aimless anger.

And while I accept that American rap does indeed express the anger of many (mainly Americans), it has zero relevance to those people the rapper wouldn't recognise if he/she bumped into: the ordinary folks, the taxi driver and the waitress, the newspaper seller and the garbage collector. No farms or farmers, so don't go on about that - and no big shareholders or company owners either. Just ordinary people. But they are the majority. They don't own guns, they don't get mixed in crime, they don't trash Heathrow airport because they were not upgraded to the 1st class lounge (rap with relevance to the real world, gimme a break!). And they deserve a voice that is relevant to them.

Rap, with its bling, posturing and posing, is not that voice. Punk might have been, once; folk might be sometimes. But rap isn't it. Not for them. Not for me. Not for the vast majority of people I know.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 May 07 - 06:14 AM

Of all the bits of Roots that might (even though this may not have been the intention) be construed as racist, 'the way we look and the way we talk' is not one of them because it is precisely this of which Knightley says: 'we learn to be ashamed before we walk'.

What he means (or what I take this to mean) is how mainstream education has taught a generation of English school children to disown and ridicule their own cultural inheritance. What's wrong with Roots is that it's just a rant which offers no solutions on how to overcome this peculiarly English trait. We haven't 'LOST more than we'll ever know off the rocky shores of England' because children can be, and are, being taught to value what's been hidden from them and, eventually, given the courage to add to it as well as to many other areas of cultural expression.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 07 - 08:25 PM

I quite like the sound of Countess Richard. You tell 'em love! X

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 May 07 - 12:20 AM

Patronising git.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 07 - 05:10 AM

How sad - somebody says something nice to you "Countess", and you throw it back in his/her face.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 May 07 - 05:33 AM

Whatever happened to the automatic zapping of unidentified Guests?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST,Patronising git.
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:05 AM

What a disappointingly anticlimactic reply! I still like you though. And thanks for the new soubriquet. X

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: TheSnail
Date: 03 May 07 - 04:42 PM

Hate to interupt this little lovers' tiff but can I say something about "Roots"?

I'm sure that Show of Hands intentions were good if a little naive but the Rabid Right can and will latch onto that sort of thing so you have to be careful. See, for instance, this.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST,Patronising git.
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:55 PM

Ah yes, the thread. "Roots" is mediocre and posey fayre but I agree with the snail- I'm sure they meant no harm.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: GUEST,noabawby
Date: 15 May 07 - 10:58 AM

We're agreed then? Steve Knightly won't be joining the BNP any time soon?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 May 07 - 12:33 PM

I don't think anyone has suggested he would but that's not to say that the BNP wouldn't seize on Roots to use for their own purposes.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands - Roots - what a track!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:04 PM

Why do you keep repeating the words? this is the fourth time now, once was quite sufficient, or is it that you think, the more you repeat it, the more people will like it?

Ah yes, the thread. "Roots" is mediocre and posey fayre but I agree with the snail- I'm sure they meant no harm.

Individually good musicians etc. but together they sound more ' pop ' than anything else.

It's just that one song I can't stand. I think it lurches dangerously towards 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' territory and "it's my flag and I want it back" sounds like a Daily Mail headline (Or a child in the playground.

Subject: John Tams - rewrite of Manchester Rambler
From: GUEST,Swaleman
Date: 10 May 12 - 10:14 AM

Does anyone have the chords for the rewritten version of The Manchester Rambler by John Tams? The lyrics were kindly provided by 'The Borchester Echo' in July 06 but the chord sequence is so much different from the original. Thanks for any assistance.