BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please

Subject: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:37 AM

We are working on a new business venture, and I've been building the website for it. I have built it using only code (much of which I have shamelessly "borrowed" and adapted to my needs). I am a total beginner at website building, and while I know that the site works well in Exploder, Firefox, and Apple's browser (can't remember the name), I don't know how it behaves in other browsers.

Also, there is a video in the "videos" link on the home page, and I don't know how easy/difficult it is for people to load it and watch it, or how easy/difficult it is for people to download the required software if they don't already have it.

If there are any kind souls who would be willing to go in and have a look around and report back with what they find, I would be grateful.

A La Carte Digital Video

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:48 AM

it shows fine in Opera, but I am still struggling to get my alternative player for QuickTime working. I 'wish' there was less use of proprietary video formats...though I understand why one might use them.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:50 AM

SilkTide had this to say.....

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:51 AM

oh...and it shows just fine in the K-Meleon browser, too..*grin*...I guess it is basically compatible with usual standards.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:52 AM

Might want to get more text, so that search engines will pick it up if someone is looking.

Looks like a good site to me.

Not that * I * would use that background...

8-{E

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:59 AM

I think it is handsome. It might benefit from some human-interest pictures to liven it up. It responds quickly. Not highly interactive, but that will come. Good job.

"A la carte" does not mean from the cart, I should mention. It means something closer to "from the list". So when you say "from the cart" it sounds odd and hard to interpret, IMO. Suggest you say "a la carte" instead -- it is widely understood as meaning picks from a list.

A

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 11:08 AM

What SilkTide said, but it's still under constsruction.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Morticia
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 11:08 AM

I agree with Amos about perhaps some photographs.....but looking good.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: MMario
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 11:28 AM

If your design continues on the way it stated I'd say you're good. The downchecks silkTide had were in links to other sites and from other sites (which will probably self correct) photos and artwork (which will also correct as you grow the site) and hits on google - which presumable will correct as the site ages - since they mention false readings if site is less then "a few months" old.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 06:16 PM

This is great. I'm really glad I started this thread. You guys have brought up several issues that I hadn't even considered.


Thanks for checking, Bill. I never even heard of K-Meleon, and would not have known to check it out.


That SilkTide site is a great resource. I am extremely relieved (and somewhat astonished) to discover that I have received an 8.3 from them for "How well designed and built the website is". Although to be fair, a lot of the credit has to go to the people I "borrowed" code from.

And the criticisms are not really a surprise. I really do need to do all (or at least most) of the things they suggest.


Thanks, beardedbruce. Although you might use that background if you were a "bride-to-be", or wanting to sell services to them.

;-)


Thanks, Amos. I've already made the change in the wording. I'm really glad to know about that.


Thanks Sorcha, Morticia, and MMario.

I'll have to see what sort of pictures I can find and figure out the best places to put them.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 09:54 PM

Especially since you don't have much text filling it, you should consider setting your table width as a percentage of the screen, instead of at 800. That way, those of us who are still setting our displays to 800x600 will be able to see the lovely background. (I'm not sure what the function of the table that's set at 100% is.)

Otherwise, it looks o.k. via Firefox on a PC. (I couldn't run the Quicktime, though.)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 04:25 AM

Firstly, good to see you are using a simple but very clear layout. I really think it is the best way to go for most of us.

I like the backgroud creamy colour on the opening page but think that should be used on the other pages too. The leap to a stark white is a bit of a shock to the system.

I notice SilkTide reports a number of errors - 80 on 3 pages. I would fix these even if to date you haven't encountered a browser that has failed. The reported does mention possible accessibility problems for the disabled (an it isn't only the UK that have laws concerning this BTW) so I don't know how a text reader would work.

I'd suggest you run it all through the w3c validator (http://validator.w3.org/) I don't think it would take you long to correct and if you wish, once done, you can even add a logo to your page to show you have taken the trouble to ensure you have produced compliant html.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:11 AM

Also, I'm not sure about your quicktime movie page. I haven't got it on this linux box anyway but...

I notice a couple of references to a directory "Movie_files" which doesn't appear to me to exist.

I've also noticed (although I don't think it affects your method) that MS in typical fashion has changed the rules in later/updated browsers for embedding QT earlier this year. It might be worth a look through this.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:27 AM

Just an aside, one famous case regarding accessibility involved the Australian Olympic Committee getting fined $20,000 (AUS).

Some details on these issues (here

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 09:41 AM

Looks good. Two things occur to me though.

The background creamy colour is a big contast with the plain white. I'd use something a little lighter.

People are described as videographers. I don't know if this is a common US phrase, but to me (UK based) it's a horrible word. I would suggest video cameraman instead.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 09:42 AM

I think it's a cool site, Carol. I have no criticisms. I was having some trouble loading the video, but that's this machine, not the site. I wish you every success with the venture.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:22 PM

It's a nice site, very legible. I have the following suggestions:

Your location should be on the home page. For example, there's no point for a bride in Arizona to use your site if you are in Ontario.

The red rose background is not quite right. Red roses evoke Valentine's Day and chocolates, not the wedding day.

I tried to download the videos, and it took so long, I gave up. I use Windows XP home and Internet Explorer.

I suggest you include a picture of one of you on location so buyers can see what your equipment is like, how much room it requires, etc.

Best of luck with your venture.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 02:39 PM

Thanks everybody. Great suggestions. I need to spend some time looking at the things each of you are talking about very carefully. After I do that, I might have some questions for you. Hope you don't mind. I have a couple for right now, though...

Bunnahabhain, videographer is pretty standard in the business here in the US. I think it's the video equivalent of 'photographer'. I think there is probably a difference here in the US between 'videographer' and 'video camera man' in that (I believe) a videographer does more of the compositional and directorial decision making than a camera man (but I would need to ask my son for a more official definition). What does videographer mean in the UK?

leenia, what color flowers would you tend to associate with weddings? (I had red roses for mine, but I'm hardly normal   ;-)

Has anyone watched the video? I am also interested to know if people would find the video useful if they needed to learn how to tie a tie.

Tonight we will be filming the second installment of our instructional video series - 'how to do a manicure'. If anyone has any constructive suggestions for improvements we could make in our second video (as compared to the first), that would also be very helpful.

More questions later, no doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: fat B****rd
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 02:56 PM

Wot Peace said, all the best Carol.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM

CarolC,

White roses are traditional, but Yellow are often used these days.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:02 PM

Ok, I've got a couple of new backgrounds.

http://alcdv.com/indexPeachRose.html

http://alcdv.com/indexPinkRose.html

http://alcdv.com/indexWhiteRose.html


Any feedback on these?

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:04 PM

The peach are wonderful, but the white are more "wedding"


JMHO, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:06 PM

Well, only sort of. White rose or carnation means death. But brides do wear white usually.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:07 PM

I agree with the bearded one.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: s&r
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 03:18 AM

I can only get one page with no way of getting any further into the site. W Explorer.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:22 AM

I stayed up all night long last night for the second time this week, working on the website.

Surely this means I am now officially a computer geek.

I've made the first of what I'm sure will be many changes based on the excellent advice here in this thread.

I made a compromise on the color of the flowers. I used the peach ones, but I lightened them up significantly. Here...

http://alcdv.com/

The white ones looked too formal for what we expect to be our target demographic (relatively non-traditional, budget conscious people)


Becky, I changed the width to 750 because of your suggestion. I'm still trying to figure out what happens with all of the possible ways I can approach that issue, but I'm glad you brought up the matter of the narrower screens.

On the question of what the 100% setting for the table border is, without that, the right margin is fixed and if I slide the right edge of the window to the left, the edge of the window goes over the edge of the table. With the 100% setting there, the right edge of the table slides to the left for a bit before the edge of the window slides over it. I borrowed that bit of code from the Google search page.


I changed the background inside the table to white in the home page. I agree that it doesn't work very well to have that one a different color from the other pages.


Thanks for the validator link, Jon. I'll check it out. Also, thanks for the link about Quick Time. On the subject of extraneous code... there is probably quite a bit of it in there. I have been weeding it out as soon as I have been able to identify it, but there is still a lot of code in there that I don't know what it does. The pages with the videos embedded in them started out as a template on my son's Mac laptop. I have adapted the template to do what I need it to do, but I'm sure I need to do some weeding out of extra and unneeded code in there.


I will definitely need to find out everything I can about making the site more accessible. Thanks to those who have provided resources on that subject.


Thanks for the suggestion of putting our location on the home page, leenia. That's a good suggestion and I will definitely do that very soon. I also like the suggestion of putting a picture of one of us on locaion in the site. I'm not sure when I'll be able to do that, but I'll definitely be thinking about how to get it accomplished.


Thanks, Peace and fat B****rd.


Stu, were you able to find the links to the "About Us", "Contact", and "Videos" pages?

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:26 AM

IMO, there is still too much white on the text overlay.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:33 AM

One other thing...

Of the people who tried to watch the video and couldn't (not including those who don't have Quicktime), did you open the page and the video loaded but didn't start?

For some reason with that particular Quicktime viewer, it is necessary to press the little "play" button (the little triangle to the right of the speaker button). I want to see if I can correct that, but in the meantime, if you tried but didn't press the button, you might be able to watch it if you do that. Also, it takes a minute or two for the video to load.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:34 AM

Are you referring to the background color inside the table, Sorcha?

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:35 AM

...and are you saying that the color is too white, or that there is too much area with that color in it?

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 12:02 PM

Yes...the background square is just too big....can't hardly see any of the lovely peach roses.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:28 PM

Are you in Explorer or Firefox, Sorcha?

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:29 PM

Or rather, I should ask... which browser are you in? I guess I shouldn't assume it's either of those two.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: s&r
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:39 PM

All I see is a page looking like a visiting card, with a 'tablecloth' that it's laying on. I can see no links or progressions; I;ve run the mouse cursor all over the picture, but nothing.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: s&r
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:43 PM

Got them - don't know why they didn't show before.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:53 PM

Just installed mPlayer. Can now see the quicktime movie on Suse Linux 10.1/firefox 1.5.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:53 PM

Thanks Stu.

I have them in the same color as the rest of the words. I was wondering if they would be missed by some people because of that. It's possible that they will be. But I'm having a problem with the idea of having them be blue and purple. I need to think about that one.

Also, in Explorer, they are not underlined. Do you think you might have found them more easily had I let the underlines show?

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:55 PM

Jon, do you have any input on whether or not you think you would find the video useful if you needed to learn how to tie a tie?

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:13 PM

Well let's say that if I'd never tied a tie, I'd be reasonably confident I could tie one from that and I'm not usualy the best (possibly as I'm left handed and sometimes without even realising do things back to front) at following simple instructions like that even with someone standing next to me.

Subject: RE: BS: New Site: Constructive Criticism Please
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:36 PM

Great! That's what we're after. Thanks for watching it.