BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 01:59 PM

'The Egyptian-born physician said that the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah and the Palestinians would not be ended with ``ceasefires or agreements."

"It is a jihad (holy war) for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahri said. "We will attack everywhere."'

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 02:19 PM

"The patrol base has been repeatedly caught in deadly crossfire since it was built as an observer post in 1972.


"What I can tell you is this," Hess-von Kruedener wrote. "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing."

"The closest artillery has landed within two metres of our position and the closest 1,000-pound (450-kilogram) aerial bomb has landed 100 metres from our patrol base."

"This has not been deliberate targeting," he added. "But has rather been due to tactical necessity."

Hess-von Kruedener had been an infantry officer with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry for 20 years.

He served in Cyprus, the Democratic Republic of Congo, formerly Zaire, and twice in Bosnia before joining the UN Truce and Supervision Organization last October. "


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/26072006/2/national-un-peacekeeper-described-constant-bombing-days-death.html

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 02:58 PM

Yup, these are the same people who hide weapons under women and children, so they run near UN posts to avoid being killed, except the Israelis learned to take war seriously and continue to kill them.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,HEDD
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 04:49 PM

Lessons in Lebanon!

What sort of war has the Israeli armed forces learnt?
It seems to me they have become expert at waging war on civilians with their targetting of houses,apartment blocks, bridges,fuel depots,power stations,ambulances,schools,hospitals,petrol stations and car convoys.

In fact this Israeli army seems to have learnt its terror tactics from the nazis in the second world war and the Shock And Awe invasion of Iraq three years ago.

Israel has certainly lost the friendship or respect of many around the world.The sight of all the children maimed by blast,shrapnel and cluster bombs has been quite appalling.

But the Israeli invasion seems to be in some trouble.It has not won the quick victory it expected and seems to be outthought and outfought by an enemy who is numerically inferior and weapons inferior.

Many of the Hezbollah fighters would have been relatives of those killed by the Israelis in the last invasion or perhaps imprisoned and tortured under Israeli direction at the notorious Al Khaim prison run by Isrea's allies.The Hezbollah is proving a tough nut to crack and a poll in Lebanon this week has shown that a huge majority of its christian and muslim population believe Hezbollah to be a legitimate resistance force fighting off the invader. People are flocking to join to seek revenge for the bombing and shelling and missile fire.

Israel is entering a quamire and to quote a Pete Seeger song "The damn fool kept yelling go on!"
hedd

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 04:59 PM

"Israel has certainly lost the friendship or respect of many around the world."

That is a lie. The people who hate Israel today hated Israel 20 years ago. They have lost no friends nor have they gained any. Israel's security depends on military power. Israel has been attacked consistently and persistently since the 1940s. I would have more respect for the pro-Hezbollah posteres on this thread if they had even once tried to get Hezbollah (or its predecessors) to stop attacking Israel. But you damned well haven't. None of you. IMO, your hatred of Zionists and Zionism is a not-so-cleverly disguised hatred of Jews.

Answer this: When have you ever written one letter asking Hezbollah to stop? WHEN? Your interest is not those poor civilians in Lebanon, because none of you have a care for poor civilians in Israel. You have no sense of justice; simply a sense of hatred. Curse the lot of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: C. Ham
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 05:19 PM

As I've come to expect, Peace's analysis is totally insightful.

Here is an excellent commentary by James Lileks that addresses the issues that Peace raises.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:04 PM

Hedd you dope. Israeli children are murdered by Islamic militants policy and you say nothing about that. One sided bullshit, and if you ain't Muslim you will be next in line when israel is finished. Think about it!

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,hedd
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:14 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,hedd
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:15 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:32 PM

yes Hedd they want to kill all infidels, so when Israel is destroyed they can concentrate on the USA remember 911?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,hedd
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:33 PM

SUFFER THE CHILDREN!
You Zionists can curse as much as you like .It doesn't disguise the fact that the Israeli army and airforce are a bunch of murderous thugs who have waged a barbaric war on innocent men,women and children.
As for the charge of being anti semitic .That is rubbish! Some of the most articulate and forceful critics of Zionism and Israel are Jewish---critics who have renounced the right of return and have criticised the cruelty and militarism of the Zionist state that is Israel.

One of you nameless Zionists talks about "when Israel is finished..." What tosh!Israel has one of the world's most powerful armies which is use as a kind of enforcer for American oil and strategic interests.The reality is that Israel is morally bankrupt, would be economically bankrupt without American support and yet still has a military machine that causes immense destruction to innocent people.

I went to sunday school and I dont remember the Bible saying suffer the little children...and lob a few cluster bombs onto their apartment blocks.
You lot can curse all you like but there was another honourable Jewish tradition of respect for others before Zionism and one day in the future that tradition will assert itself again after Zionism collapses under the weight of the thousands of innocents it has killed in the Lebanon , in Gaza and on the West Bank.
hedd

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:40 PM

Hedd your bullshit is just laughable, you should think about it before posting you sound like a Jihadi

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:40 PM

Guest, Sammy
Guest, dan
Guest, hedd

I take it that you support the 1967 borders defining Israel and Israel's right to defend them as stated by CarolC?

Simple question. Let's throw out your polemics and grandstanding and start with a simple answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,a senator in a seersucker suit
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:10 PM

A simple yes or no would be suffice.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:36 PM

HEDD,

"under the weight of the thousands of innocents it has killed"

I wonder if Hezbollah will collapse under that weight. But I rather think not. They have no morality at all, do they.

The Israelis are being as careful as their weaponry will allow. Had they been purposely targeting civilians, there would be substantially more than 400 dead. I agree that 400 is 400 too many. But in your sickness, you do not agree that 40 is 40 too many. The forty were just Israelis, just Jews, right? And by virtue of being Israeli and Jewish, they had it coming, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: podman
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:41 PM

Last week, a cross-border raid by the radical Lebanese Shiite movement Hezbollah embroiled Israel and Lebanon in an escalating conflict. In 2002, [The New Yorker's] Jeffrey Goldberg wrote a two-part article examining Hezbollah, which he called "the most successful terrorist organization in modern history." Read part_one and part_two.

The area in which Hezbollah makes its home is saturated with pictures of radical Islamic clerics including Ayatollah Khomeini, which casts doubt upon whether Hezbollah is hiding out among innocent civilians or the entire community is Hezbollah.

The articles are long but well written and slightly more believable than the fans of terror we're seeing show up on the guest list.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,freddie
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:08 AM

"The Israelis are being as careful as their weaponry will allow" says the misnamed Peace in an above posting."

Mmmmmmm !

Tell that to the relatives of the four dead UN observers.

Tell it to the surviving paramedics .....The Israeli missile punched a hole through the centre of the red cross painted on the top of their vehicle.

Tell it to those in the car convoys fleeing north who saw their neighbours blown to bits on the road of death.

Tell it to the Doctors in Tyre and Beirut who have been working overtime amputating limbs of toddlers and teenagers.

Tell it to the friends of the German Lebanese family. They were killed in a basement cellar when the bomb crashed in.

Tell it to the 700000 refugees made homeless in their own land...just as the Palestinians were made homeless 58 years ago in Palestine.

Careful?...Yes the bomb aimers were very carful.They only followed orders.

Weaponry did you say?... Yes we know who built the big bombs.
freddie

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:09 AM

WALT, is that you? You on or off your meds?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,tony
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:29 AM

"The horrors grew from small beginnings.The belief in a Jewish homeland which began well over a hundred years ago following the progroms in Tsarist Russiahas now developed into state violence.

When the zionists came to Palestine they emphasised their separateness .They took over arab land,often evicting the occupiers.

The zionists organised their own trade union [the Histradut[.They organised their own markets and shops.They desttoyed arab produce.No arab was allowed into the Kibbutz movement.The majority of Jewish owned land belonged to the Jewish National Fund whose constitution forbade arab tenants.By 1946 Tel Aviv with a population of 300000 had no arab residents.

Zionism ,however was beginning to inflict more and more outrages on the Palestinian people.The state of Israel,declared in 1948, was accomplished by a terror campaign that drove out many of the indiginous Palestinians----they have never been allowed to return.

The Israelis search for allies has meant it has become close to some of the worst regimes in the world including the apartheid state in South Africa and the Death Squad states of central and south Ameica.
It even trained the SAVAK secret police in the Shah's Iran.

In 1935 the Zionist practiced discrimination....but today that crack has widened .The crack of Jewish sperateness has lead to the horror of the Lebanon and the monstrosities of Zionism.

The arab working class is the only power that can stop Zionism and smash imperialism .The existing states can't do it."

Tony Cliff
[born Ygael Gluckstein into a zionist family in Palestine in 1917
socialist and fierce opponent of zionism ]

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:32 AM

Nobody supports wogs who train kids to kill and blow themselves up. Draw a fucking cartoon and they all dance and scream kill the infidels... fuck em...

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:33 AM

Tony Cliff was a dedicated Marxist. So what's new?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,jon
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:39 AM

Some 10000 tonnes of leaking oil has leaked into the sea from a destroyed stage tank some 35 miles south of Beirut.Another tank with about15000 tonnes of heavy oil is also expected to leak into the sea.The tanks have been burning for the past 2 weeks following Israeli air attacks and the sea and the coastline in the area have been contaminated.Job well done Olmert!!
jon

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:44 AM

And of course, as a Marxist he really liked Stalin. And Stalin was a master of sorts at killing lots of people, wasn't he? Gee, Guest Tony, you choose your idols well. BTW, did you take that from the Socialist Worker Online, July 29, 2006, issue 2011?

Wasn't it Stalin who starved about 8,000,000 Ukranians? What do the Socialist Workers have to say about that? Let me guess. They'll deny it, right? And how do the Socialist Workers feel about Hezbollah and the killing it does? Did they say, or that doesn't fit the pogram. (Notice the lack of an 'r' in that word. Wouldn't want you to think it's a typographical error.)

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:46 AM

"Job well done Olmert!!"

I wonder if you have given credit to Hezbollah for starting the war, Jon? Don't they deserve just a little credit?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:53 AM

Effects of war come ashore in form of oil slick at Beirut's Ramlet al-Baida beach


Daily Star [Lebanon] staff
Saturday, July 22, 2006


BEIRUT: Part of Beirut's shoreline has become covered in oil, threatening marine life, according to an article published in An-Nahar daily. The shore at Ramlet al-Baida, where Israeli warships have been firing from, has been covered in the thick toxic liquid, the report said.

Beirut Mayor Abdel Monem Ariss, who toured the area, has stated that the source of the diesel oil could either be the heavy traffic of ships and boats that have come to Lebanon to evacuate foreigners, or the Israeli warship that was hit by Hizbullah rockets. The warship might have had to empty an extra load of oil, Ariss said.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb

Ariss ruled out the possibility that the diesel oil might have resulted from the burning gasoline tanks at the airport because he said "its combination differs from that of diesel oil found on the Ramlet al-Baida's shore and the smell differs as well."

Ariss said that he had delegated Marwan Chidiac, the head of the Civil Defense, to investigate the case.

Environment Minister Yaacoub Sarraf was to coordinate a shore cleanup. - The Daily Star

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:07 AM

One more thing:

What are all you Socialist Workers saying about the average daily death toll in Iraq? Are you aware that the 'average' has now gone over 100 deaths per day? And what did the Socialist Workers say about Rwanda? And what are you saying now about the war just starting between Somalia and Ethiopia? Do you know? Do you care? Do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,sammy
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:19 AM

Eh
I think Cliff was an anti Stalinist and a supporter of the great Jewish and Russian reviolutionary Leon Trotsky who warned in his own writings of the dangers of Zionism.

Trotsky was murdered in 1940 on the orders of Stalin and around 20 of his family were either murdered,executed or imprisoned by Stalin.

Cliff is an important commentator on Zionism in that he was born in Palestine in a zionist family and saw at first hand the ill treatment and thuggery meted out quite casually to arab workmen by Zionist goons.When he complained as a teenager about this thuggery he was beaten up and threatened .

Apparently he was highly amused at being called a self hating Jew.
" Me he would say ...I am Jewish but I love myself!" Cliff was only a small man in stature but a great anti racist and socialist.

He helped found the Anti nazi League In Britain in 1978 which smashed the then growing Nazi National Front. For some reason the Zionists hate him!
sammy

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:20 AM

And for you guys and gals who don't open links to read what may be an opposing view, here is a snip from the link posted by C Ham:

"Oh, who cares. Even though Somalia is run by Islamists so extreme they make the Taliban look like lapsed Unitarians, the progressive peace movement would take notice of the region only if Uncle Satan intervened to help Ethiopia support the U.N.-recognized government. And then the progressives would rally to the Islamist cause. Recent anti-Israel protests remind us again of our era's peculiar alliance: The most violent, intolerant, militantly religious movement in modern times has the peace movement on its side.

The usual delusions are abundant. The progressives imagine they're the vanguard shielding the last jot of human rights from the ever-gathering fascist storm. (Forget the executions in Somalia for the crime of watching the World Cup; there's a rumor Wal-Mart won't offer the usual new-release discount for DVDs of Al Gore's eco-doc.) They imagine that conservatives support Israel because they want to convert Jews and usher in the last book in the "Left Behind" series. They have internalized the Palestinian narrative so deeply they blame the "occupation" for rocket attacks coming out of territory no longer occupied. They're so convinced of their rectitude that the obscenity of an Israeli flag spattered with swastikas makes perfect sense: Why, if the Israelis weren't actually Nazis, the progressives wouldn't oppose them. They marched with communists for Worker's Rights, regardless of whether anyone in communist countries had a job or any rights. And now they march with Hezbollah supporters for Peace and Justice."

Yeah . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:26 AM

Sammy:

So you really ARE a Socialist and up on Mr Cliff (may he rest in peace). So tell me, why do you support murderers like Hezbollah? You do that in the name of what?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,freddie
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:30 AM

Peace...you do a good line in caricatures
you are named peace but are full of hate
you see plucky little Israel when most of the world sees a neighbourhood bully.
You see self defence when Israel acts as a mad rottweiller.
Kofi Annan is hardly an anti semite but is appalled by what he has seen of the attack on Lebanon.
freddie

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:31 AM

One last thing because i have to go.

Where does your group stand on Syria, Iran and Al Qaeda? Do you think they do 'good work' too? I mean, wasn't it Syria who thoroughly screwed up Lebanon to begin with? And doesn't Iran have a wonderful record for free thought, what with the Ayatollah and all? And doesn't Al Qaeda have a great history with women's rights? Seems to me you folks sleep with the devil when it's convenient. Anyway, have a nice day, whoever you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:36 AM

Freddie (since I now know who you really are), I do not like what Israel is doing. OK? But I don't like what Hezbollah has been doing for years. The trouble you and I have is that you really think Hezbollah are someting other than murdering bastards controlled from Iran. I think they are nothing else but!

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Ringer
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 09:37 AM

"Can the jeering critics of Israel stop catcalling for a minute and explain how Israel is to defend itself against an enemy that shoots from among women and children, and from behind UN soldiers? Can they explain why they are such apologists for terrorists? Can Annan explain why he did not call on Hezbollah to stop risking the lives of his staff, or pull them out when they were being used to screen terrorist fighters?" From Here, along with a photo of UN and Hezbollah flags flying side by side at the UN observer post.

"Annan" btw is, of course, Koffi Annan, doting father of the corrupt Kojo.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,freddie
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:23 AM

Reply to Peace
You ask what socialists have to say about the invasion of the Lebanon.Here goes!

Israel has launched a full scale, all out war on the Lebanese people...not just the resistance fighters of Hezbollah.It has been supported by the USA which has long provided the latest weapons ,training and finance to Israel.

If the Lebanon is smashed then the sights will be turned on Syria and then Iran.

Meanwhile Gaza continues to be attacked with missiles,bombs,tanks,artillery and snipers.Israel has a history of barbarism that goes back for many decades.

Resistance to this imperial attack is essential.

There is no equivalence between those doing the fighting.
Israel has a record of invading other countries while Hezbollah is a resistance organisation stemming the forward onslaught of both Israel and the USA . It is being supported by a growing tide of arab,christian and muslim opinion across the Middle East.
freddie

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:35 PM

"The lynching of Israel continues, this time with United Nations boss Kofi Annan accusing it of the "apparently deliberate targetting" of a UN observation post, killing four observers.

The usual suspects are now running with this line, with The Age front page screaming: "UN told: please explain.''

The venom against Israel - as splashed about by former Deputy Prime Minsiter Tim Fischer on ABC 774 this morning - is extraordinary. Do these people seriously think Israel aims to kill UN staff, and that this was not simply - as Israel insists - a tragic mistake?

What makes Annan's allegation so unforgiveable is that his UN Interim Force in Lebanon has been warning for days about what almost certainly caused this tragedy. Hezbollah fighters, who have already been firing behind screens of women and children, have also been shooting from behind and next to the UN positions, presumably hoping Israel will not dare shoot back and risk exactly this kind of propaganda disaster.

Read the UNIFIL press releases for yourself to learn that Hezbollah has not just shot at and seriously wounded UNIFIL observers - without any protest from Kofi Annan or The Age. You'll also learn that UNIFIL has repeatedly reported Israeli shelling and bombing near UNIFIL outposts because Hezbollah fighters were shooting from right beside them .

Says the UNIFIL press release of 20 July:

Hezbollah firing was also reported from the immediate vicinity of the UN positions in Naquora and Maroun Al Ras areas at the time of the incidents (of Israeli return fire). "

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,jon...Remember Qana
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:33 PM

Israel does have a history of attacking the UN.In April 1996 it attacked the UN post at Qana in southern Lebanon.It was packed with Lebanese civilians who had fled from nearby villages which had been attacked by Israeli warplanes and artillery fire.

The UN base was targetted by Israeli artillery shells which exploded among the refugees.One hundred and five [105] were killed.It was carnage.Over 100 hundred others were maimed.Utter devastation!

And the Israelis are still doing it.

This was a barbaric war crime but as far as I know no Israeli soldiers were held to account for this terrible
jon crime

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,adam - remember Hama
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 03:41 PM

Hama massacre occurred when the government of Syria attacked the town of Hama and killed thousands of people on February 2, 1982. Amnesty International claims that 10,000-25,000 were killed at Hama, though many figures exist and the number could be considerably smaller or larger than this. The Syrian government had made no official claim about the number killed at Hama.

Hama defied the dictator of Syria. Syria supports Hezbollah. It is obvious what Hezbollah is willing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,BA
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 04:23 PM

So much ink and airtime leaves one just bloggin' along trying to make sense after yet another dispatch from CNN and various al-Jazeera acolytes.

Once the two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah and the Katyushas unleashed, what exactly could Israel have done differently from what it has done? No one has any suggestion apart from the truism that Israel has a right to defend itself. Except, it seems, Israel has a right to defend itself only so long as it does nothing.

A country fighting with only a fraction of its true force in order to minimize civilian deaths, as Israel appears to do, risks losing both the war and the propaganda war. It can be accused of turning Lebanon into a charnel house while achieving only limited battlefield success. No doubt the dead and injured civilians include Hezbollah members, but I have no idea if eliminating them is causing more harm to Hezbollah than to Israel.

When the enemy places soldiers and weapons within civilian areas and sometimes right inside civilian homes -- giving new meaning to the notion of the kids playing war games -- you can defeat them only by a massive land invasion or by reducing the entire area to rubble. Israel's critics are vocal but all they have on offer is the chimera of a ceasefire and an international force to police it. The international community has been unable to enforce the 2004 UN Security Council resolution 1559 to disarm Hezbollah. The UNIFIL force in the region has proved utterly useless as have all previous "peacekeeping" missions in the Middle East.

Israel, less than 60 years old with only 6.4 million people, appears to soak up most of the world's moral outrage at the expense of many worse situations unremarked. The inaugural session in Geneva last month of the newly constituted United Nations Human Rights Council spent its time focused on "Israeli human rights violations in the occupied Palestinian territories." Never mind violations in Darfur, China, Zimbabwe, etc. Iran's delegation included Saeed Mortazavi -- a wry touch. Mortazavi is Iran's prosecutor general, implicated in torture and illegal detentions. Iranian-Canadian photojournalist Zahra Kazemi died while in his custody. There were no international warrants for his arrest in Geneva when he checked in as there would have been had toothless Augusto Pinochet shown up. Or comatose Ariel Sharon. At least, if Canada's own Louise Arbour had her way.

But then, Israel is the mother of all Rorschach ink blots when it comes to the UN. The only country created by a vote of UN members as opposed to merely being admitted by them, it remains the only one that has no permanent membership in any of the world's groupings. The Asian bloc, which includes Lebanon, Syria and Egypt, won't let it in. The Western European and Others bloc finally gave it temporary status in 2000, but that membership is a temporary visa to be renewed every four years -- rather like a Turkish worker in Germany.

Speaking of Louise Arbour, she has been issuing press releases and muttering darkly about Israeli military and political commanders bombing "sites with alleged military significance, but resulting invariably in the [unjustifiable] killing of innocent civilians." Such people might, she says, have a "personal criminal responsibility." If Madame Arbour were running a restaurant in Trois-Pistoles, "Pepsi et frites. Le duo parfait," her moral fog wouldn't matter. Unfortunately, she is the UN's high commissioner for human rights. I suppose she should be congratulated for beating the odds. Normally, people who can't tell the difference between the intentional and the accidental are streamlined into non-academic careers at a fairly early age. Only a minority become Supreme Court justices or heads of human rights offices.

One shouldn't be a crybaby and raise the spectre of anti-Semitism in easygoing Canada, but I find it intriguing that some French- Canadian radio broadcasters commenting on the dispute refer to "les Juifs" rather than "les Israéliens." Broadcasters of all sorts are problematic, though. The BBC has been trying to keep its petticoats clean after giving the game away as correspondent Barbara Plett covering Arafat's departure from Ramallah told viewers, "When the helicopter carrying the frail old man rose from his ruined compound, I started to cry." More like, don't cry for me, Palestine. Few people get Nobel Peace Prizes for warmongering and theft.

But in spite of all its effort, the BBC has practically gone native. While its newscasters aren't yet wearing Lawrence of Arabia headgear, their camels are at the ready. BBC broadcaster Fergal Keane, known for his "humane" take on events, gave viewers a mini-documentary this week with vivid footage of horrifyingly maimed children in Lebanon together with his commentary attributing the suffering to a "Red Cross ambulance fired at by an Israeli missile." Any BBC newscast on the situation could play happily on al-Jazeera -- and probably does.

Ultimately, all the rockets Hezbollah has been hoarding must be there to use against whoever blocks its design -- which is power. If we could stop looking under beds for Israeli war criminals, we could focus on what this is all about: whether the Middle East will be under the primary influence of Iran or the West -- neither of which are Arab powers.

Arab countries seem unable to run their own affairs. Nature abhors a vacuum and this vacuum has a lot going for it in other ways. The region is swimming in oil and the people are largely literate -- indeed if anything, a bit too taken by poetry. The result is a hugely valuable, un-staked claim that attracts predators. Iran has its heart set on recovering the empire of Xerxes but unlike the legend of the biblical King Xerxes (a.k.a. Ahasuerus), this time round there's no Esther to save the Israelites.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 04:35 PM

Hey, notice how many different names CarolC has posted under since deleting her cookie?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 04:49 PM

No matter how hard each side tries to justify it's actions by proclaiming, "SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!", a war in which there are more dead children than armed combatants is obscene and morally unjustifiable.

The NATO bombing of Kosovo over a span of 78 days resulted in the deaths of around 500 civilians. In just three weeks the confirmed civilian deaths in the Lebanon alone, have far exceeded that, despite assurances of care and the supposed sophistication of weaponry. Something really stinks and its not just the body count.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:27 PM

Did the militants in Kosovo use women and children as shields and set their armaments up in densely populated areas so that they could use the civilian body count for propaganda purposes?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,phil
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:35 PM

Isn't Israel a member of Eurovision?

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,Granville
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:54 PM

You Zionist supporters seem to want it all! The Israeli military are waging all out war on the civilian population of the Lebanon and Gaza...................and you want world approval of its actions.
You want us to say "Well done plucky Israel!"

You want us to say "Never mind the kids torn apart and the old lady in Gaza killed by artillery fire."

But most of the world doe mind.There are killers on the loose in Africa and terrorising the region.

But there is Israel which is also terrorising its neighburs and has been doing so for several decades.

The original people of Jerusalem and other cities were driven out at the point of a sharp knife and a bayonet.They have never been allowed to return to their homes because Israel was declared to be a Jewish state.......However there are many Jewish people both secular and religious who believe that it is a brutal hijack state or simply profane.

The Palestinians have refused to give up their fight for civil,human and national rights and have been punished for their impertinence time and time again.

They have been killed in large numbers, imprisoned and tortured, exiled and beaten and seen their land stolen
.
You Zionists scream with rage not only at the actions of the Palestinians but also at those who report on the situation or who stand witness to the crimes of the Zionists.Hence the killings of Tom Hurndell and Rachel Corrie and the others shot while filming or observing the criminal actions of the Israeli military.

Zionists do not even want to use the word Palestinian as if somehow its use gives them legitamacy. The Zionists are the thugs,the killers and the racists....and that is why you are meeting resistance in Gaza,the West Bank and the Lebanon!
G

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,mark
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:05 PM

The commander of Israeli armed forces on the northern border was taken to hospital today suffering from abdominal pains and exhaustion.Lt General Dan Halutz was allowed home and told to eat well and rest.
Meanwhile the Israeli minister of Justice was taken in by the police last week for seven hours of questioning for an inappropriate kiss with a female.
He too,was allowed home!
Things seem to be tough at the top...
mark

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 07:01 PM

Gee. Mark, that was really illuminating. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: freda underhill
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 08:08 PM

i refer again to this unpopular thread the need to win which was geared at the sometimes abusive debating techniques on threads like this one.

Yes, robo, as I have stated previously, I support the 1967 borders defining Israel and Israel's right to defend them, but as far as I am aware those borders do not extend into Lebanon. And bb, please answer with arguments and not misguided derisive attacks.

and Peace, thanks for your thoughtful pm about my Lebanese colleague and her deceased aunt and hospitalised children.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST,brian
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 08:23 PM

The most telling thing to me in this sad little column is the positive glee the Hezbollah supporters are taking in reporting all the civilian casualties. Naughty naughty Israeli zinistas.

It's merely a matter of choosing your cry-point. The terrorist lovers are willing to call the Terrorists 'defenders' and the Israelis attackers and invaders. The Israelis aren't covering themselves with glory. But they are not claiming glory. Somehow the amen-corner of the Hezbolla lovers is trying to make these killers the heroes.

The Arab street is supposedly falling all over theselves kissing the ground before Hezbollah.

But this will end. The Lebanese will remember how this all came about. There will be folks trying to raise money for Hezbollah who get the cold shoulder.

Why pay for trouble?

All I can say is if Israel is going to all this trouble to kill civilians that the terrorists are hiding with, they better make it worth their while.

Finish it and get out.

But don't go kidding yourself that we won't remember who started it and who took the most joy in all the victims. Your wasting your time.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: C. Ham
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 10:34 PM

Yes, robo, as I have stated previously, I support the 1967 borders defining Israel and Israel's right to defend them, but as far as I am aware those borders do not extend into Lebanon.

Then, pray tell, explain why Hezbollah started this lousy war by crossing the border into Israel and taking Israeli prisoners.

Hezbollah knew that Israel would be provoked into a military response and that innocent civilians would undoubtably be killed. After all, Hezbollah hides behind innocent civilians.

The thing is, Hezbollah wants innocent civilians to die. The more innocent civilians die, the happier Hezbollah is.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 10:57 PM

Afghanistan (where the local religious right richly deserved removing) was bombed back into the stone age. Local resistance to the occupation army continues.

The US invasion of Iraq on the pretence that Iraq was a military threat has greatly encouraged local resistance to the occupation forces.

Remember Korea, Vietnam, Ireland, Algeria.

The only time Israel will bring peace to the Lebanon by present means will be when nothing at all moves there.

You do not make friends with a population by destroying its homes, its families, its land, and all trappings of civilisation. At most you subjugate it.

Once, not long ago, I supported Israel's defence and even its occupation of the Golan Heights and the West Bank. But here and now in the Lebanon and in Gaza Israel is trampling people and countries who have not been the assailants of Israel. The people in the refugee camps without water are not Hezbollah or Hamas - yet. The destruction of the hopes they had been laboriously building may yet make them so. The power stations bridges and roads destroyed served many indeed mostly those who were not Hezbollah or Hamas.

Israel's brutality here and with its armoured bulldozers has turned this previous supporter into a critic. What it has achieved across its borders seems likely to be more extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Gaza Strip 28/9 June 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:47 PM

Bridge, there are more fucking cel phones in Afghanistan now than two years ago some fucking stoneage when girls are actually at school again. Fuck Off idiot