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ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy

Joe Offer 03 Jul 06 - 03:01 PM
Louie Roy 03 Jul 06 - 05:13 PM
katlaughing 03 Jul 06 - 05:37 PM
open mike 03 Jul 06 - 05:41 PM
Louie Roy 03 Jul 06 - 06:01 PM
Helen 03 Jul 06 - 06:01 PM
Louie Roy 03 Jul 06 - 06:48 PM
GUEST,harpgirl 03 Jul 06 - 11:23 PM
open mike 04 Jul 06 - 01:03 AM
Louie Roy 04 Jul 06 - 10:09 AM
GLoux 04 Jul 06 - 10:21 AM
Louie Roy 04 Jul 06 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,harpgirl 04 Jul 06 - 11:50 AM
Louie Roy 04 Jul 06 - 12:05 PM
GUEST 04 Jul 06 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,harpgirl 04 Jul 06 - 12:35 PM
Louie Roy 04 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM
Louie Roy 04 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,harpgirl 04 Jul 06 - 01:52 PM
GLoux 04 Jul 06 - 03:36 PM
Louie Roy 04 Jul 06 - 03:40 PM
Stewart 04 Jul 06 - 04:14 PM
Louie Roy 04 Jul 06 - 07:26 PM
open mike 04 Jul 06 - 07:33 PM
wysiwyg 04 Jul 06 - 10:48 PM
Stewart 04 Jul 06 - 11:20 PM
GUEST,harpgirl 05 Jul 06 - 12:20 AM
JohnInKansas 05 Jul 06 - 12:51 AM
Louie Roy 05 Jul 06 - 10:20 AM
GLoux 05 Jul 06 - 01:13 PM
Helen 05 Jul 06 - 04:34 PM
BanjoRay 05 Jul 06 - 04:55 PM
GLoux 05 Jul 06 - 05:44 PM
Helen 05 Jul 06 - 05:56 PM
HiHo_Silver 05 Jul 06 - 06:04 PM
GLoux 05 Jul 06 - 06:57 PM
Helen 06 Jul 06 - 05:42 PM
Stewart 06 Jul 06 - 06:38 PM
Stewart 06 Jul 06 - 07:06 PM
Helen 07 Jul 06 - 03:39 AM
GLoux 07 Jul 06 - 10:41 AM
Louie Roy 04 Aug 06 - 10:25 AM
Mr Happy 06 Apr 11 - 09:16 AM
Mr Happy 06 Apr 11 - 10:00 AM
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Subject: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 03:01 PM

Louis Roy sent me this MP3:I can't leave it up forever because I don't want to impose on Jon Freeman's generosity by leaving large files at his site, but it will be there for a while. Can anybody identify this fiddle tune for Louis? It's a nice tune and sounds somewhat familiar, but I rarely can remember titles of lyrics-less songs. Here's Louie's message:
    Joe I have no idea what the name of this tune is.When it was composed ,If there are any words,Who the artist was but I figured if you put it on the forum and let the membership listen to to it someone will answer all the question.Hope you can do this and if anyone is interested in the chords I'll gladly furnish them.Louie Roy

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:13 PM

I sure hope some one will identify the tune maybe the artist and when it was written and thank you Joe for helping out.I know there are some excellent fiddlers and other excellent musicians in the mudcat organization so I'll keep my fingers crossed.Louie Roy


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:37 PM

Just a note: the fiddler is 90 and Louie is in his 80s. Great job, fellahs!!


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: open mike
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:41 PM

is louie the guitarist? nice accompaniment...
maybe Sorcha will know.....hope you find the title...
it is a nice waltz...


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:01 PM

Yes open Mike I am on the guitar,and the chord configuration is a little difficult..Louie Roy


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Helen
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:01 PM

Hi,

I can't help with identifying the tune but contacting the people at these two website's may help.

Old Time Music MIDI Archive - 19th and 20th Century dance

The Fiddler's Companion

The website owners have a large number of fiddle tunes and may recognise it immediately or know how to help you to track it down.

Helen


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:48 PM

Thanks Helen I'll check out those two sites.Louie


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:23 PM

for starters, its a waltz so that narrows it down considerably


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: open mike
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:03 AM

there is another site with lots of fiddle tunes
j c's tunefinder
http://ecf-guest.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind
john chambers can be reached here:
jc@trillian.mit.edu


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 10:09 AM

Thanks Helen for the info,but neither one was able to help.Open Mike I'll check out the ones you recommend.Thanks Louie


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GLoux
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 10:21 AM

Louie Roy,

What area of the country (I'm assuming you're in the US) are you? And who is the fiddler?

I don't recognize the tune, but it sounds like a "contest-grade" waltz from Weiser to me.

-Greg


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 10:59 AM

Im from Oregon and the fiddler is a man last name Kinman


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 11:50 AM

Louie Roy...two ways to go

look up on the web any info on -----Kinman (what is his first name?) or

get someone to play the tune into a midi and match it at JC's. Alison could do it. I can't do this but I do find the waltz very familiar



Alison are you out there? And how are you old girl?


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:05 PM

Harp Girl I play with this fiddler at least once a week and have for the past 15 years.He has no idea where he came across this tune and he is 90 years old and he grew up in Texas with a musical family and has been playing the fiddle for over 80 years.He seems to think it came out in the 1920s,but again that us only a guess and as far as he knows he never did know the name of it


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:12 PM

Louie, I hear a G a C a D and a minor (Amin?) in your accompaniment
and an G A and D and G in the B part. Can you write the correct chord sequence?

What is dear Mr. Kinman's first name?

I really like it. Very nice playing.

I thought it sounded like a Texas Waltz and I am looking about for such. any more clues?


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:35 PM

Louie, is this your pal?


Oregon fiddler Guy Kinman


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM

Harp Girl this is my pal.Louie


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM

Here are the correct chord sequence for this song.On the MP3 it is played twice and the second go around is identical of the first
and each part has 4 different chord sequences and if you play by ear you'll have no trouble if you listen to the tune,but you'll have to work on it.

1st part    G C G B C G D

2ND PART   G C G E A D

3RD PART   G C G B C B

4TH PART   C D C G D G

REPEAT START OVER

1ST PART    G C G B C G D

2ND PART    G C G E A D

3RD PART    G C G B C B

4TH PART    C D C G D G


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:52 PM

Thanks, now I can accompany you both. I sent a note to Alison to see if she would midi it and then we can match it up. I have looked in TheSession.org, The Waltz Book, Folk and County Waltzes for Fiddle and JC's with no luck as yet.

Let's not forget your picture Louie! Louie Roy


I hadn't seen this before.


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GLoux
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:36 PM

Louie,

I have posted your question with a link to the mp3 on the old-time newsgroup, rec.music.country.old-time, to see if the pundits over there can identify it. I can definitely hear someone like Benny Thomasson playing it.

Thanks for the pictures, harpgirl...

-Greg


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:40 PM

Open Mike That web page you sent said it was unavailable but I sent an email to JC and I hope he answers me Louie


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Stewart
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 04:14 PM

I just transcribed the tune, and here's the abc. I think it's fairly accruate, but tell me what you think.

X:1
T:Louis Roy Waltz
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:G
D DC|B,3C DB,|C3D ED|DC B,C DG|B4-B ^A|
=AF F3A|G2E2FG|D3E DB,|CB, A,G, A,C|
B,3C DB,|C3D ED|DC B,C DG|B6|A2E3D|
^CD E3G|F3A FE|D3E DC|B,3C DB,|C3D ED|
DC B,C DG|B6|A2F3A|G2E2FG|F6-|F3F (3EFG|
G2E3G|F2D3^D|E C2C DE|D3c BA|G3A Bd|
cB AG FA|G4-G A|G3d (3d^c=c|B3c dB|
c3d ec|dc Bc d b|b6|a2f3a|g2e2fg|d3e dB|
cB AG Ac|B3c dB|c3d ec|dc Bc db|b6|
a2e3f|e2a3g|f3a (3fed|c3d dc|B3c dB|
c3d ed|dc Bc db|b6|a2f3a|g2e2fg|f6-|f4ef|g2e3g|
f2d3^d|e c2c de|d3c BA|G3A Bd|cB AG FA|G,A, B,D Gd|g6|]

I can't find it anywhere either. It sounds like a Texas waltz.

Cheers, S. in Seattle
To play or display ABC tunes, try

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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:26 PM

Stewart,When you talk about ABC format you are talking greek to me I don't know one note of music I play everything by ear.


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: open mike
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:33 PM

once again John Chambers has a site that explains this..
http://ecf-guest.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/
ABC is a system by which music can be transferred into text

and with a simple and free translation program can be
played as a midi file or printed in notation ..
usually when you see a mudcat entry about ABC
there is a description below it that encourages
you to take the time to learn abouot it because
it is a good program.

if you have the soft ware (again it can be found
for free from several sources) you can cut and
paste that alphabetical soup above and hear it
palyed by your computer or printed out in the
"dots and lines"

this site says it is the official ABC music home page
http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 10:48 PM

Louie, the people trying to track the tune down at other sites will use that ABC stuff to compare it to other tunes. I think they can even do a search using that gobbledegook.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Stewart
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 11:20 PM

Just copy the whole abc and paste it into Concertina and then click on "submit" and you will have a midi and the graphic score (dots).

S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 12:20 AM

I can't get that to work, Stewart....


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 12:51 AM

Worked fine for me, harpgirl.

Copying extraneous characters of spaces around the ABC may toss a clanker. The link to the Concertina site opened fine. Click in the window and paste, and it all came up.

I used the right-click, save target as, to get the midi, pdf score, and their "original ABC" back as separate files.

The midi is just a bit faster tempo, playing back at 1:36.
The mp3 takes 1:56, but if you knock of the couple of snorts and burps (0:08) at the beginning of the mp3 it's very close.

The "evenness" from the midi perhaps makes it "feel" a little more brisk.

It sounds to me like it probably had lyrics at some point, and the bit of modulation in a couple of places seems to suggest an early 1900s sheet music style; but of course a song could have been made from a fiddle tune, or the tune from a song could have turned into a fiddle tune... so not much of a contribution here.

John


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:20 AM

Open Mike I sent John Chambers an MP3 this AM and maybe he can come up with a name.Anyway thanks to all of the mudcatters who shared their wisdom and expertise,this is what makes this sites such a wonderful place.Everyone trys to help.Thanks again Louie Roy


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GLoux
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 01:13 PM

Kerry Blech responded saying he's not familiar with it, which means it is *very* obscure...Kerry recommended that the request be posted on Fiddle-L. I don't belong to Fiddle-L, but am wondering if there is a Mudcatter here who does and could post the query?

-Greg


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Helen
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 04:34 PM

It sounds a bit like a Mazurka rather than a waltz to me, or a different type of dance tune. It reminds me of the dance tunes John Meredith collected in Australia in the 1960's & 70's from older musicians out in the country areas.

Helen


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: BanjoRay
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 04:55 PM

Hi Greg - I've posted the question on fiddle-l, with the both the link to the recording and the ABC transcription.
We'll see.....
Ray


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GLoux
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:44 PM

Thanks Ray !!!

-Greg


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Helen
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:56 PM

Like this one:

A Mazurka

It's the last tune on the page.

Jack Kevans passed away last year

obit
but the page said that he didn't know the name of the tune. The first part is very similar to Louie's tune.

Helen


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: HiHo_Silver
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:04 PM

Have sent tune to several fiddlers and clubs on the East Coast of Canada. As of yet no one has been able to identify. Is it possibly part of two or more old fiddle tunes put together? Some have replyed that parts of the tune sound familar. However, this is true of many tunes. Many tunes vary from region to region.


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GLoux
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:57 PM

Another thing Kerry Blech said was that to him it sounded like a country western song from the 20s or 30s done instrumentally...

-Greg


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Helen
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 05:42 PM

Please, could someone else listen to the midi file of the mazurka I gave a link to above (From: Helen Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:56 PM). To me, the first part sounds almost the same as Louis Roy's mystery tune.

When I first listened to it, with the different speed, and being played with a piano sound, it seemed similar only, but then when I compared the sheet music on that page with the sheet music generated by the abc posted by Stewart on this thread (as generated at Concertina.net) I realised that the first part of the Mazurka is almost the same as Louis's tune.

If it is the same tune it doesn't solve the mystery, because Jack Kevans didn't know the name of the tune, which was not common for him because, as I recall, he knew the names of almost every tune he played and where he got it from. But, it might give a starting point for tracking it back. I know some people who played music with him and they may be able to shed some light on it.

The reason I went looking for Mazurkas in the first place, in relation to this tune, is that the name of Sally Sloane, kept popping into my head. SS was born in the 1890's in NSW, Australia and had collected many songs & tunes to play. Many of her songs/tunes were collected by John Meredith in his Folk Songs of Australia book, which has dance tunes like varsoviennas, mazurkas, schottisches, as well as songs. There were significant crossovers of American and Australian tunes, probably relating to the goldrushes.

Jack Kevans also played in a band set up to showcase the work of an old timer called Charlie Batchelor, a fiddler, who had been playing these old tunes for most of his life.

But, I need someone else to listen to and compare the two tunes.

Please.   :-)

Helen


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Stewart
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 06:38 PM

Very interesting, Helen. I transposed the Mazurka down to the key of D, the same key as the Louis Roy tune, and then put them together in double staffs so they both play together. They do sound similar. But then many fiddle tunes have parts that sound similar to other fiddle tunes. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're the same. Could be variations or have both come from some earlier tune. Who knows, maybe there's only one original tune! Anyway the two make for an interesting duet, a little dissonant in a few parts, but overall they seem to work.

Here's the abc of the combined tunes. Copy and paste it into Concertina and then you'll have the midi and the dots.

X:1
T:LouisRoy-Mazurka-JackoKevans
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:G
V:1
z4DC|B,2B,C DB,|C3E AG|F2FG FE|D3E DC|
B,2B,C DB,|CB, CE AG|F2[F,F]G[F,A]F|
G4DC|B,2B,C DB,|C3E AG|F2FG FE|D3E DC|
B,2B,C DB,|CB, CE AG|F2[F,F]G[F,A]F|
G4D2|B2BB cB|A2AG[F,F]G|AB Ac[F,B]A|
GF GE DG|B2B2cB|A2AG[F,F]G|AB Ac BA|
G4D2|B2BB cB|A2[F,A]G[F,F]G|AB Ac BA|
GF GE DG|B2B2cB|A2[F,A]G[F,F]G|AB Ac BA|G4z2|]
V:2
z2zD DC|B,3C DB,|C3D ED|DC B,C DG|B4-B ^A|
=AF F3A|G2E2FG|D3E DB,|CB, A,G, A,C|
B,3C DB,|C3D ED|DC B,C DG|B6|A2E3D|
^CD E3G|F3A FE|D3E DC|B,3C DB,|C3D ED|
DC B,C DG|B6|A2F3A|G2E2FG|F6-|F3F EF|G2E3G|
F2D3^D|E C2C DE|D3c BA|G3A Bd|cB AG FA|G4-|]


Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Stewart
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 07:06 PM

Oops, that should be both in the key of G.

S.


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Helen
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 03:39 AM

Thanks Stewart,

I've listened to them combined and they are different but similar. The first couple of bars are the same but they are a bit different after that. But also, do you hear what I mean about the Mazurka rhythm? It "swings" slightly differently from a waltz.

Helen


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: GLoux
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:41 AM

I also posted a link to the MP3 recording on the Sugar in the Gourd Forum two days ago. Unfortunate both that forum and the Old-Time news group are coming up dry. Sorry, Louie.

-Greg


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:25 AM

Until someone identifys this tune and gives it the proper name and artist we'llcall it Guy's Waltz.Louie Roy


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 09:16 AM

Maybe Louis's Waltz?

http://jc.tzo.net/~jc/cgi/abc/tuneget?F=MIDI&U=http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/2862&X=1&T=LOUIS


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Subject: RE: ID Fiddle Tune for Louis Roy
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 10:00 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgBeHc6umvo


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