Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes

Subject: Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 11:44 AM

Well, it would be nice if I could answer all questions on the subject in this first message and then post a copy in the FAQ, but the problem is that I really don't have "sure-fire fixes." Brother Art Thieme has long been cookieless in Illinois, and this has been a source aof great dismay and consternation to many of us. I was trying to schedule a Midwest house call to fix his cookie this summer, but it didn't work out.

I've made only one house call in my 9-1/2 years at Mudcat, and I was totally successful in resetting Barry Finn's cookie in New Hampshire. I have much less luck talking people through cookie fixes online.

Part of the problem is that most of us tech geeks have never had cookie problems ourselves, so we have not been able to develop the necessary empathy to help non-geeks resolve their cookie problems. As far as I can see, cookie problems are almost always due to a corrupted cookie on the user's computer. They are almost never due to problems on Mudcat's computer.

My usual remedy is to tell the user to do this:

Go to http://www.mudcat.org/member/logout.cfm (logout) and delete your cookie. Do it a second time to delete all traces of a Mudcat cookie. Go to tools/options on your browser and clear the history and the cache of Internet files, so there are no old Mudcat pages on your computer that might interfere with getting new pages. Go to http://www.mudcat.org/Login.cfm (Login) and reset your cookie with user name and password.

Now, usually this works - but it hasn't worked for Art Thieme and many others, and this is a source of frustration to me. Can anybody help me refine instructions so they are both sure-fire and goof-proof?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:33 PM

Well..... why can't we network a freebie service call from a techie to go over to Art's place, or anyone else's? I know one in my area that would do it pro bono, so there must be others in other areas who would?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM

Joe, Yes cookie problems invaraibly lie with a user's machine. The server only really asks the browser to set one and reads cookie information the browser sends it.

No' I don't know any 100% guranteed to work methods - except re-format and re-install maybe -)

Probably the easiest for Art if he's been through everything that's been suggested would be to use a different browser.

Subject: RE: Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:28 PM

GETTING RID OF OLD COOKIES:

Several of the more recent Windows versions automatically set up more than one user. To completely clear all crumbled cookies, it may be necessary to clear cookies individually for each user, and to clear cookies for all of the users on the computer.

1. Backup Cookies:

Assuming that someone might have cookies other than the one from mudcat that they'd like to save, IE and probably other browsers allow you to export the existing cookies to a separate file that will not be used by the browser. In IE, "File | Export," a "wizard" opens, and after you click Next, you can choose "Export Cookies." Make a folder to put them in, and export them to look at later.

2. Delete Cookies:

Once you've saved (made a backup of) the whole mess, in IE (and probably similarly in other browsers) Tools | Internet Options should show a button (on the "General" tab in IE) for Delete Cookies. This should remove ALL existing cookies for the user logged on when it's clicked. Removal using this method is pretty reliable, but not perfect.

3. Repeat 1 & 2 for each user:

The same process should be completed for each user defined on the machine.

4. Verify removal:

A problem with the last statement is that many users won't know how to "log on" to their own computer as one of the default "other users" that Windows sets up automatically.

In Windows Explorer, at C:\Documents and Settings\ the first few folders listed should be the "user folders" for the possibles. There will generally be:

an "Administrator,"
an "All Users,"
a "Default User,"
probably a "named user" in most but not all cases,
sometimes a "Local Service" (see below) and
usually a "Network Service" (see below) folders.

In each of these folders, there may or may not be a subfolder named "Cookies." If nobody has ever logged, connected, and received a cookie as that user there may not be a cookie folder, or the folder may be empty. Deleting all the files in any cookie folders that have something in them should clear all the cookies for the user of that folder. You should not delete the folder itself - just the contents of the folder.

The "Local Service" and "Network Service" folders sometimes have a few cookies, but it's usually best to leave what's in these two, since the only things likely to appear are related to things like your Google toolbar and such, and/or stuff related to local network setup, which you'll probably want to keep. Usually anything that appears here is easy to identify, with clear naming that tells you (sort of) what it's for.

If the "Delete Cookies" in IE worked, the "Cookies" folders immediately preceding should be empty. They usually will be, but once in a while something "sticks."

If anything is found in the "Cookies" Folders under each user name, deleting there usually gets rid of everything; BUT -

The "Cookies" folders are phonies, like the "My Documents" thing. It displays stuff that isn't really "in" a physical folder location. This is supposed to be "helpful" to the user, but sometimes it isn't, and sometimes the linkup with the "real" location of the files doesn't work as expected.

5. Double-Check Cookie Removal:

Each user folder (C:\Documents and Settings\username) may or may not have a subfolder called "Temporary Internet Files" that is actually (we think) the "physical folder" where both cookies, web pages, images, and other junk is kept. If the above steps have been followed, there should be no cookies there, but it's a good idea to check. If you've done the "Delete Cookies" and the "Delete Files" with the "Delete all Offline Content" box checked in IE at the Tools|Internet Options General tab, the folder should be empty.

GETTING A NEW COOKIE:

With recent security patches in nearly all Windows versions, and with recent versions of IE (with patches) the security settings in IE may block cookies in sometimes puzzling ways. Recent updates to IE itself have changed the meanings of some of the security levels that you can choose.

For mudcat, as a specific example, the new default settings may reject the cookie entirely, or may accept a temporary cookie that lets you log on, but that gets deleted when you close the browser so that you're not logged in the next time you come back.

I assume (he says glibly) that most browsers allow a site-specific "accept cookies" setting.

In IE

a. Tools | Internet Options

b. Click the "Security" tab at the top.

c. I would suggest, if your IE and OS are up to date, that the "Internet" zone be set as your normal mode of browsing. For most users, this is "safe enough" and the more secure settings really get in the way, unless you're working under an Gestapo IT manager who won't let you go anywhere regardles of what you want to do.

d. Click the "Privacy" tab at the top.

e. I would suggest that the "slider" be set to "Medium High." This will block cookies from sites without security certificates and most "third party" cookies.

f. If there is a box at the bottom to select "Block Popups" I would suggest putting a check in the box. If you have the Microsoft popup blocker it works pretty well, is not intrusive, and usually allows easy "turn-off" for a site where you need to let something through.

g. LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT FOR MUDCAT: (You are in IE, Tools|Internet Options, on the Privacy tab)

Click the "Sites" button. In the box marked "Address of Website," click inside the box and type "mudcat.org" (without quotes) and click the "Allow" button. You may be offered choices about whether to accept permanent or only temporary cookies and you should choose to allow everything for mudcat (since we trust them) if a choice is offered.

h. Check to make sure that mudcat.org appears in the lower box with the notation Always Allow beside it.

NOW you can go to the mudcat login, sign in, and have a crumble-free cookie (I think).

Note that the very thorough removal of old cookies is seldom really necessary if the GETTING A NEW COOKIE routine is followed completely; but most people have so much trash in their cookie bins that dumping it all every once in a while is not a bad idea.

Variation in individual setup, presence or absence of security patches, and use of a variety of browser make it difficult to produce a simple bullet-proof script; but I think I've included the essentials so that especially adapting to other browsers should be fairly obvious.(?)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:42 PM

I'm still not satisfied. I sent login information to a user the other day, and she reset her cookie and got to what looked to a normal Forum Menu, complete with a link that said You Have 43 Messages. She clicked on the link, and couldn't access her personal messages because the personal messages page wouldn't recognize her as logged in. Why does this happen, and is there an easy way to fix it?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:53 PM

Had that happen a few times.

If you are logged in, reboot your machine. That is, turn it off and wait fifteen seconds. Turn it back on. Go to Mudcat. The messages should then be available to read.

Subject: RE: Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 10:34 PM

Joe...and others...I had this sort of thing happen, and I found what seemed to be the fix for me was to REFRESH Mudcat! This is because the page you start from when you reset the cookie is still in the cache, and once the cookie is reset and you return to the threads, your browser is reading the previous settings!

...so...reset your cookie so that you see the "you have X messages" comes up, THEN refresh so that your browser reads that cookie, rather than looking at the earlier, cookieless setting.

I'd almost bet that Art has some setting enabled telling his browser to refuse cookies.

Subject: RE: Tech: Cookie Problems: Sure-Fire Fixes
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 02:15 AM

Thats a good point of yours Bill.
I always refresh when going to a website such as Mudcat for the very reasons you mention.