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Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road

DigiTrad:
LOCH LOMOND
LOCH LOMOND 2
LOCH LOMOND 3
LOCH LOMOND 4


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Loch Lomond - in Irish (12)
Origins: looking for origins of Loch Lomond (10) (closed)
(origins) Origins: Loch Lomond (52)
Origin: Loch Lomond (from The Corries) (6) (closed)
(origins) Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose (8)
OTHER Loch Lomond Songs ? (15)
Lyr Req: You take the high road & I'll take the lo (24) (closed)
Lyr Req: Wedding McPhees of Loch Lomond (5)
Lyr Add: The Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond (6) (closed)
(origins) Origin: Loch Lomond variants? (5)
Tune Req: Loch Lomond + The Minstrel Boy (3) (closed)


Rob O 22 Feb 99 - 07:28 PM
Maelgwyn (inactive) 22 Feb 99 - 07:30 PM
alison 22 Feb 99 - 09:44 PM
Ferrara 23 Feb 99 - 01:44 PM
dick greenhaus 23 Feb 99 - 02:03 PM
Bruce O. 23 Feb 99 - 02:13 PM
23 Feb 99 - 07:56 PM
Bruce O. 23 Feb 99 - 08:12 PM
Bruce O. 23 Feb 99 - 08:30 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 24 Feb 99 - 06:38 PM
Don Meixner 26 Feb 99 - 12:22 AM
Jack Hickman - Kingston, ON 26 Feb 99 - 09:20 AM
Jack Hickman - Kingston, ON 26 Feb 99 - 09:27 AM
jo77 26 Feb 99 - 02:22 PM
Jack Campin 26 Feb 99 - 08:18 PM
Lesley N. 27 Feb 99 - 10:23 AM
Bruce O. 27 Feb 99 - 12:23 PM
JESTER! 01 Mar 99 - 05:17 AM
23 Jun 99 - 06:15 PM
pavane 27 Jul 01 - 04:14 AM
ard mhacha 27 Jul 01 - 05:05 AM
GUEST,anonymous 24 Oct 02 - 02:32 PM
Sorcha 24 Oct 02 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,Shonagh 24 Oct 02 - 06:35 PM
GUEST 24 Oct 02 - 07:15 PM
GUEST,Q 24 Oct 02 - 07:32 PM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Oct 02 - 07:55 PM
GUEST,Q 24 Oct 02 - 10:23 PM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Oct 02 - 11:25 PM
IanC 25 Oct 02 - 06:40 AM
GUEST 25 Oct 02 - 12:54 PM
PeteBoom 25 Oct 02 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,Q 25 Oct 02 - 06:17 PM
Teribus 26 Oct 02 - 04:49 AM
GUEST 29 Mar 03 - 04:29 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 03 - 07:19 PM
GUEST,Bruce O 13 Sep 03 - 09:33 PM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Sep 03 - 02:45 PM
GUEST,Jim Rattray 16 Nov 03 - 04:48 PM
Jim I 21 Sep 06 - 01:16 AM
Genie 03 Sep 09 - 07:28 PM
Genie 03 Sep 09 - 07:37 PM
Jack Campin 03 Sep 09 - 09:05 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Sep 09 - 09:33 PM
GUEST 03 Nov 13 - 07:48 PM
Lighter 03 Nov 13 - 08:41 PM
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Subject: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Rob O
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 07:28 PM

Hey all...

I got my hands on a CD called Sons of Somerled, and heard a fairly cool rendition of this song. Which got me to thinking a few things that I know someone someone around her can answer. :)

1) "Gae" would be the same as gay as in happy?

2) "Tak" I saw this both in the lyric sheet with the CD and in the Digitrad database. Is this just a dialected version of Take or does it have its own meaning?

3) Oh, does anyone have a good chord progression for it?


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Maelgwyn (inactive)
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 07:30 PM

I think 'gae' is 'go' and 'tak' does mean 'take'.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: alison
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 09:44 PM

Hi,

I agree with Maelgwyn, it's just scottish dialect..... (have a go at reading some of Cuillionn's entries to threads sometime..... you'll get the idea...)

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Ferrara
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 01:44 PM

Do they give the history? I'm pretty sure it was written by a Scot who was waiting to be executed in England for rebellion. The Low Road is the road through Faerie, ie he is saying that he will never see Scotland again in this world but will see it in the hereafter. Somebody help -- is this fakelore or have I got it right? - Rita


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 02:03 PM

Rita- Good story, but fake. It's actually a fairly modern set of words, as I recall--


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Bruce O.
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 02:13 PM

The previous thread, giving the history, was in September, 1997.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From:
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 07:56 PM

I seem to recall that the poem was written by Robert Burns and later set to music. As I do not have a book of poetry (English or otherwise) handy, I won't mortgage my house on my memory. But that's my recollection.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Bruce O.
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 08:12 PM

It's was about 80 years after Burns died that the song appeared. Use the 'Forum Search' on 'Loch Lomond' to get the earlier messages.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Bruce O.
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 08:30 PM

The book where is song is said to first appear is 'The Poets and Poetry of Scotland', 1876. www.bookfinder.com lists several copies for sale.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 06:38 PM

There is more than one version of the song. Check the thread search as I know I posted something before off the Scots Music list, and no longer have it.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Don Meixner
Date: 26 Feb 99 - 12:22 AM

Loch Lomond has had a lot of mutations over the years. There have been some fairly sanitized versions as well as some blood thirsty ones. A bee bop version was done in WWII and I once heard a real Messy Soprano sing it on the Sullivan Show. The most listenable version I've heard was done by The Coories. I think because they just sang the song outright without pretense or trying to make it more than it was.

I realize that there some out there in the electric mists who view The Coories with the same disdain as they might John Denver or PPM. For me they were the first people to sing Scottish songs and make them accessible for me. They were also the first dialectic singers I ever heard who sang like their voices matched their words. (Sandy Paton's Many Sides album ofcourse won't be mentioned here.)

Maybe we sould discuss performing as a new thread or resurrect the old one that surely must exist.

Don Meixner


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Jack Hickman - Kingston, ON
Date: 26 Feb 99 - 09:20 AM


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Jack Hickman - Kingston, ON
Date: 26 Feb 99 - 09:27 AM

Pardon the blank message above. I hit the Enter button by mistake.

I think, like many well-known folk songs, the words to Loch Lomond were likely put to a much older melody, which has been lost in the mists of time. Another example is Danny Boy, which refers to the lyrics put to the traditional air entitled "Air from the County Derry" or the "Derry(Londonderry) Air." My personal view is that the Danny Boy lyrics are overdone, and we should stick to the music.

Buth having ranted my fill, back to Loch Lomond. I don't know the name of the melody to which these lyrics have been attached, but another lovely song using the same melody is "Red is the Rose", the words to which were composed in recent years by Sarah Makem, the mother of Tommy Makem, and a fine singer in her own right. A lovely song worth learning.

Keep the Faith.

Jack Hickman


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: jo77
Date: 26 Feb 99 - 02:22 PM

If you'll send me your lyric I'll chord it for ye :) Gae = go I am not Scottish but one of my ole buddies was and in addition to this gorgeous song is also 'I Belong tae Glasgow' This one is not for a 'teatotaller' :) qtech@ionet.net


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 99 - 08:18 PM

Bruce gives an 1876 date for this. That may be the date of first book publication, but it's older. There is a discussion of it in Piping Times, Oct 1971. The first appearance of something like the modern song was a broadside by Sanderson of Edinburgh, 1838. This was picked up from a boy singing it in the street by Lady John Scott, who tidied up some loose ends and gave us what we have now. I can find the Sanderson thing easily enough, I guess; local libraries have masses of his broadsides. Can't say this song does much for me. Sanderson's version was heavily adapted to the point of parody from an older one, but the standard myth applies to no version of it in existence. Pure twaddle.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Lesley N.
Date: 27 Feb 99 - 10:23 AM

Before I got look at the original thread (which I probably should do BEFORE posting this) - one of my sources says the tune was based on an old air, "Robin Cushie".


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Bruce O.
Date: 27 Feb 99 - 12:23 PM

Use forum search on subject: 'Loch Lomond', and see the note by Murray on Saltspring regarding "Kind Robin Loves Me" = Robin Cushee/Cushie (Robin quoth she). ABC's of two versions of the tune are on my website as KNDROBN1 and KNDROBN2 in file S1.HTM.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: JESTER!
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 05:17 AM

A rather rollicking version (almost rockabilly, sorta) apears on the albul "Invisible Means", a colaboration of Richard Thompson, Henry Kaiser, Fred Frith and Michael (?) French. Richard does the lead vocals, and Hank rips off some solos that you've never heard with Scots folksongs, regardless of authenticity. Great players with a sense of humor- check it out!

J!


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From:
Date: 23 Jun 99 - 06:15 PM


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: pavane
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 04:14 AM

By chance, I turned up this song - although it doesn't mention Loch Lomond, it looks like the same song, and is approximately the same age as the Sanderson broadside - may even be older, being printed in Newcastle between 1832 and 1842.

Flora's Lament for her Charlie


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 05:05 AM

Nana Moskuri,Sings it as well as anyone I have heard. I also remember the history of the song as about two brothers imprisoned in Carlisle after the 1745 rebellion. One of the brothers is dying and he implies that he will take the low road, etc. Even if it is another folk song taking poetic lisence, the song takes a new meaning, espically when sung by Nana. Slan Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: GUEST,anonymous
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 02:32 PM

We're singing this song in Women's Ensemble, and no one can figure out how to pronounce anything. From what I can tell, "gae" means "gaze", but I hear people saying it means "go" who would also make sense. "Tak'" is "take", as in "You'll take the high road."


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 02:35 PM

If you will go to the Scots Dictionary, which is here, you'll find most of the meanings.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: GUEST,Shonagh
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 06:35 PM

Ive always known Loch Lomond to be about two soldiers (Scottish) who were captured in England and one of them dies. The low road being his death and the high road being the one to Scotland. and i'll be in Scotland afore ye... implies that he'll be there in spirit before the other one escapes over the border. Its always been this story in my house. Not sure if its true or not, but the folk in my town have always believed it!


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 07:15 PM

There is a movie out, "Legend of Loch Lomond," the "ghost story of 18th century lovers, cruelly separated by war, but reunited in the present day by a beautiful young singer...." No, I don't want to see it.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 07:32 PM

The legend most commonly associated with "Loch Lomond" is told here: Loch Lomond
In 1745, two soldiers, captured and thrown into Carlisle jail by English soldiers, one to be set free, the other to be executed. The old Celtic belief is that if you die away from your homeland, you return by an underground spirit route called the "low road." Those transported in death arrive home immediately, whereas the one on the high road will take many days to get home.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 07:55 PM

It is, however, a completely imaginary, modern invention, and comprehensively discredited. There is no such "Celtic" belief. It is, as Jack Campin (who knows what he is talking about) described in this thread two-and-a half years ago as "pure twaddle". Did you not bother to read the discussion before posting to it?


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 10:23 PM

Malcolm, I gave the true story of Loch Lomond in Rosie's Posies post by Guest 05:39PM, 22 Oct 02.
On the other hand, how can a website called "The Thistle & Shamrock" be wrong? Repeat the story often enough, and it becomes gospel. Which it has. Legend 4, Twaddle nil.
Frankly, I rank this song right up there with the great Irish classic (shurely by O Carolan) about saintly (shurely should be beatified) Mother McCree.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 11:25 PM

Oh, was that you? Fair enough, then. Please use a consistent pseudonym, though, so we can keep track of who has said what! That link doesn't work, mind, so the true horror of "Thistle and Shamrock" is (mercifully, perhaps) as yet undisclosed....


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road
From: IanC
Date: 25 Oct 02 - 06:40 AM

The usual words, including the chorus, are generally attributed to Lady John Scott - as Lesley Nelson does here.

A set of previous words (which our Alicia probably used as the basis for her words), as well as a useful section from Ford's "Song Histories", is in Suzanne's Notes.

I couldn't find the "September 1997" post.

:-)


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 02 - 12:54 PM

The attribution to Lady Scott is repeated in several places. Has anyone a printing of her version?


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road
From: PeteBoom
Date: 25 Oct 02 - 01:53 PM

Regarding Legend 4, Twaddle Nil... I'm throwing in my bit on the twaddle side. Most of the folks I've heard (or read) supporting the 2 soldiers/lovers/whatever are seriously into the Brigadoonery I've been working against here in the States for longer than I'd care to admit.

They're the same folks that go on about wearing the "right" tartan for the clan they "belong" to (having paid the $20 fee), and how (Bonnie) Charles Edward was much beloved by his soldiers and respected by his generals and how the bagpipe is a great instrument invented in Scotland and it was banned after Culloden, and suspect that Stonehenge was "built by the Druids". They also find the strict historical accuracy of the films Braveheart and Rob Roy astounding.

If guilt by association, if not inference, is fair game, then the "legend" is pure twaddle.

Have a day -

Pete


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Oct 02 - 06:17 PM

Gee, Pete, don't knock the tartans. Selling of the "ancestral" cloth and accoutrements puts food on the table for a lot of people.
National Public Radio, in the States, was one of the purveyors of the Twa soldiers in the Jacobite Rebellion legend. Their program convinced American and Canadian viewers of the truth of the story. It is perhaps the best known story about a song. The Gringo and the Rosie legends are two more with wide currency.
They might not generate as much heat as the argument over Celtic-Seltic-Keltic-whatever (which is carried out on several levels) but once a story is accepted, people vehemently object to its displacement. Remonstration becomes a personal attack.


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Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Oct 02 - 04:49 AM

Hi Pete,

Thank you very much, your;

"They also find the strict historical accuracy of the films Braveheart and Rob Roy astounding."

Has made my day, got a very good laugh out of it.

Thanks again!!!


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Subject: correct pronounciation please
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 04:29 PM

can anyone tell us the correct pronounciation of 'Lomond'..is it with the 'd' or without....
Many thanks Dave!


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Subject: RE: Chords Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 03 - 07:19 PM

FROM BOH. IT IS WITH THE D. DA DA DA DA DA DA AND AL TAK THE ?


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Subject: RE: Chords Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: GUEST,Bruce O
Date: 13 Sep 03 - 09:33 PM

If it isn't too late to respond to Leslie's comment above, "Robin Cushee" is a corruption of "King Robin quo she". The earliest copy of the song is "Scotch Moggy's Misfortune", an English reworking of a Scots's ballad, somewhat bawdy, which may be found in the Scarce Songs 1 file at www.erols.com/olsonw, and in the broadside ballad index there. There's also an ABC there of the earliest known copy of it's tune.


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Subject: RE: Chords Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 02:45 PM

"It is, however, a completely imaginary, modern invention, and comprehensively discredited."

Hooray for you, Malcolm! Thanks for debunking another handful of troublemaking nonsense.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.


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Subject: RE: Chords Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: GUEST,Jim Rattray
Date: 16 Nov 03 - 04:48 PM

Hi
   Gae   means Go


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Subject: Lyr Add: LOCH LOMOND
From: Jim I
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 01:16 AM

Could I perhaps make a quick resume of the Loch Lomond thing. I'm trying to do sources for the songs in my songbook and this song is proving particularly difficult; especially due to the multiple threads and the long periods of time over these threads. I know Malcolm was not happy with the previous revival but I thought putting a lot of this together might be useful

First off, at least for the time being, I'm going to ignore Richard Thompson's version (Loch Lomond 2) in the DT.
------------------------------
Am I right in saying that the following is Lady John Scott's song "picked up in the streets of Edinburgh"? At least most of what I find on the net seems to suggest this.

Loch Lomond (1)

By yon bonny banks and by yon bonny braes
Where the sun shines bright on Loch Lomond
Where me and my true love were ever wont tae gae
On the bonny, bonny banks o' Loch Lomond

Chorus:        
And ye'll tak' the high road and I'll tak' the low road
And I'll be in Scotland afore ye
But me and my true love will never meet again
On the bonny, bonny banks o' Loch Lomond

'Twas there that we parted in yon shady glen
On the steep, steep sides o' Ben Lomond
Where in purple hue, the Hieland hills we view
An' the moon comin' oot in the gloamin'

The wee birdies sing and the wild flowers spring
And in sunshine the waters are sleepin'
But the broken heart it kens nae second spring
Tho' the woefu' may cease frae their greetin'
--------------------------------------------

Then from the Scots mailing list at www.siliconglen.com as well as from Henry and Susanne's excellent song site we have this version (or at least a very similar one) as sung by Matt McGinn. Although I haven't established yet where Matt got this version, according to GUEST in July 2003, "Matt McGinn had found this version in an old songbook". Could this be Matt's euphemism for "I wrote it but I'm not owning up"(?)

Loch Lomond (2)

Oh whither away my bonnie May
Sae late and sae dark in the gloamin?
The mist gathers gray oer moorland and brae.
O whither sae far are ye roamin?

Chorus
O, yell tak the high road and Ill tak the low.
Ill be in Scotland afore ye.
For me and my true love will never meet again
By the bonnie, bonnie banks o Loch Lomond.

I trusted my ain love last night in the broom,
My Donald wha loves me sae dearly.
For the morrow he will march for Edinburgh toon,
Tae fecht for his king and Prince Charlie.

O, weel may I weep for yestreen in my sleep.
We lay bride and bridegroom together.
But his touch and his breath were cold as the death,
And his hairtsblood ran red in the heather.

As dauntless in battle as tender in love,
Hed yield neer a foot tae the foeman.
But never again frae the fields o the slain
Tae his Moira will he come by Loch Lomond.

The thistle may bloom, the king hae his ain,
And fond lovers will meet in the gloamin.
And me and my true love will yet meet again
Far above the bonnie banks o Loch Lomond.

------------------------------
Tim Jaques back in 1997 added a verse from version 2 to version 1 as he remembered the Corries singing it.

Also back in 1997 Bruce said all he could find was a 3-verse version in "Heart Songs" 1909. Which version was that Bruce?

The Contemplator website suggests that Lady Scott adapted a broadside by Sanderson of Edinburgh (1838) Jack Campin back in 99 said he could probably dig up the Sanderson song

Then there's pavane's suggestion from 2001 of the song below dating to between 1832 and 1842 This song is also referred to several times by Malcolm Douglas in the thread about "Red is the Rose" back in 2003. Is Sanderson's broadside the same or similar to this one?

Flora's Lament for her Charlie

It's yon bonny banks and yon bonny braes
Where the sun shines bright and bonny
Where I and my true love went out for to gaze
On the bonny bonny banks of Benlomond

It's you'll take the high road and I'll take the low road.
And I'll be in Scotland before you.
And I and my true love shall never meet again
On the bonny banks of Benlomond.

It's not for the hardships that I must endure
Nor the leaving of Benlomond
But it's for the leaving of my comrades all
And the bonny lad that I love so dearly

With his bonny lac'd shoes and his buckles so clear
And his plaid o'er his shoulder hung so rarely
One glance of his eye it would banish dull care
So handsome the looks of my Charlie

But as long as I live and as long as I do breathe
I will sing to his memory fairly
My true love was taken by the arrows of death
And now Flora does lament for her Charlie

I don't particularly like this as it doesn't scan too comfortably. Also what is meant by the 'banks of Benlomond'?

------------------------------------------
And then how about the Andrew Lang poem of about 1876. (Well it was published then according to Wikipedia.) There are lots of references to "Scots Poets and Poetry" of 1876 when looking for Loch Lomond. I don't have access to that but the date fits for Lang

Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond

There's an ending o' the dance, and fair Morag's safe in France,
And the Clans they hae paid the lawing,
And the wuddy has her ain, and we twa are left alane,
Free o' Carlisle gaol in the dawing.

So ye'll tak the high road, and I'll tak the laigh road,
An' I'll be in Scotland before ye:
But me and my true love will never meet again,
By the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond.

For my love's heart brake in twa, when she kenned the Cause's fa',
And she sleeps where there's never nane shall waken,
Where the glen lies a' in wrack, wi' the houses toom and black,
And her father's ha's forsaken.

While there's heather on the hill shall my vengeance ne'er be still,
While a bush hides the glint o' a gun, lad;
Wi' the men o' Sergeant Môr shall I work to pay the score,
Till I wither on the wuddy in the sun, lad!

So ye'll tak the high road, and I'll tak the laigh road,
an' I'll be in Scotland before ye:
But me and my true love will never meet again,
By the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond.


Personally I think this is may be his take on the older song; turning it to where he thinks it belongs i.e. to the aftermath of Culloden. Also as far as I can see it is the only version to mention Carlisle jail. Is the story of the Scots prisoner down to Andrew?

-----------------------------------------------

Any more suggestions? And I'm not going to comment further on Scots prisoners! Anyway we all know how they got back to Scotland – they chatted up the provost's daughter and got her to steal dad's car (err horse!)

And all this so I can source the songs in my song book! I dunno whay I bother


Jim

PS I haven't included Bruce Baillie's version as you can read that for yourselves

Also can I say a big thank you to Malcolm Douglas. I would never have known about the Murray Collection without you Malcolm - it's brilliant.


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Subject: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You'l Take the High Road
From: Genie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:28 PM

At the moment (Sept. 3, 2009), Wikipedia has the familiar lyrics to Loch Lomond - those attributed above and often elsewhere to Lady Scott - as being the words to Andrew Lang's poem.

"Andrew Lang

About 1876, the Scottish poet and folklorist Andrew Lang wrote a poem based on the song titled "The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond". The title sometimes has the date "1746" appended[3]--the year of the defeat of Bonnie Prince Charlie's rebellion and the hanging of some of his captured supporters. Lang's poem begins:
There's an ending o' the dance, and fair Morag's safe in France,
And the Clans they hae paid the lawing, ..."

It goes on to give the lyrics we see in the DT for "Loch Lomond" (no number).

So I'm still trying to figure out who wrote those most familiar words to "Loch Lomond" and where the tune came from.


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Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: Genie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:37 PM

ETA: From reading the various threads here and what is currently at Wikipedia, it seems that the familiar tune (as in Red Is the Rose) may have been gleaned by Lady Scott, along with the "By yon bonnie banks ... " lyrics from hearing a boy singing it on the street --

OR

those lyrics were set (by someone) to an older tune of unknown origin.

I'm just trying to figure out what I should use for attribution when I pass this song along.


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Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:05 PM

Bruce Olson gave the tune for "Kind Robin loes me", which as he said is from the 18th century.

Words: unknown balladeer c.1830, tidied up by Lady John Scott much later.

I tried to find the Sanderson broadside but failed. There are bundles of their broadsides all over the place, though.

I suspect the Newcastle broadside is a side branch of the song's evolution. It's pretty coherent and it would be surprising if the song later evolved to lose all reference to famous historical characters like Charles Stuart and Flora Macdonald. More likely the balladeer decided it would make for a more saleable product if he or she put them in, but the sheet didn't catch on.


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Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:33 PM

This is a tough one.
The following from James J. Fuld, The Book of World-Famous Music.

"The earliest printing of this song was probably about 1840-1841, when it was published in sheet music form under the title Bonnie Loch Loman. The cover states that the song is from "Vocal Melodies of Scotland," and is arranged with symphonies and accompaniments for the piano forte by Finlay Dun and John Thomson...there is a reference to Stationers' Hall; ...states written by a Lady. Arranged by Finlay Dun. ...The back cover advertises contents of the four volumes of the "Vocal Melodies of Scotland.".... The song was not in fact included in any of the four volumes of "Vocal Melodies of Scotland," at NLS [National Library of Scotland], nor entered at Stationers' Hall."

Fuld continues his discussion, comparing some melodic phrases with "The Bonniest Lass in a' the World"...[1733].... "However in this writer's opinion [Fuld], "Loch Lomond is sufficiently different to be considered a distinct song."

Dang near everybody who has commented on Scottish song has suggested authors, i. e. Lady Scott, or tried to tie it to the times of Bonnie Prince Charlie, but nothing convincing.

Jack Campin (above) lists a tune from Olson that is very similar to the tune of "Loch Lomond," but for lyrics, "unknown" seems to be the most accurate assessment.


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Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 07:48 PM

We may never know what the original version of Loch Lomond was. I grew up hearing the Yon Bonnie Banks version, also sung too fast by American singers. A couple of years ago I was on YouTube looking for a good version of the song, as heard on the radio. I never found that but I found The Corries' version and I never really liked any other version as much again, unless I considered it a completely different song. Roy Williamson captures so much emotion in his rendition. The mood of these two versions is so different they could easily be regarded as having nothing to do with each other. Then there are the Irish Red as the Rose lyrics, which I also like better than the Yon Bonnie Banks.


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Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 08:41 PM

This thread has more complete information:

thread.cfm?threadid=65319


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