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Australian Bush Bands

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Les B 23 Feb 99 - 12:41 AM
Bob Bolton 23 Feb 99 - 02:00 AM
alison 23 Feb 99 - 02:32 AM
RWilhelm 23 Feb 99 - 09:04 AM
Liam's Brother 23 Feb 99 - 10:02 AM
Les B 23 Feb 99 - 11:32 AM
Bob Bolton 23 Feb 99 - 04:53 PM
Bob Bolton 23 Feb 99 - 05:03 PM
Les B 23 Feb 99 - 08:10 PM
katluaghing 24 Feb 99 - 12:53 AM
Bob Bolton 25 Feb 99 - 01:42 AM
25 Feb 99 - 03:20 AM
Alan of Australia 25 Feb 99 - 03:24 AM
Bob Bolton 25 Feb 99 - 04:24 PM
Les B 25 Feb 99 - 08:01 PM
jo77 25 Feb 99 - 08:23 PM
katlaughing 26 Feb 99 - 12:31 AM
alison 26 Feb 99 - 05:10 PM
Liam's Brother 26 Feb 99 - 08:53 PM
Bob Bolton 28 Feb 99 - 05:25 PM
katlaughing 01 Mar 99 - 12:38 AM
Bob Bolton 01 Mar 99 - 01:15 AM
Alan of Australia 02 Mar 99 - 04:23 AM
Bob Bolton 02 Mar 99 - 04:57 PM
alison 02 Mar 99 - 11:50 PM
katlaughing 05 Dec 02 - 11:47 AM
alison 05 Dec 02 - 06:49 PM
katlaughing 05 Dec 02 - 07:16 PM
dick greenhaus 05 Dec 02 - 08:45 PM
Bob Bolton 06 Dec 02 - 04:06 AM
JennieG 07 Dec 02 - 01:51 AM
Bob Bolton 07 Dec 02 - 08:03 AM
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cobber 23 Oct 04 - 07:05 AM
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The Fooles Troupe 23 Oct 04 - 08:37 PM
Bob Bolton 24 Oct 04 - 03:39 AM
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Subject: Australian Bush Bands
From: Les B
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 12:41 AM

Can some of you Mudcatters from oz-land describe the instrumentation and general concept of a Bush Band and recommend some Bands that may have tapes or CDs out ? Also, what is the structure of the dances they play for ? I've seen references to "first set," etc. Thanks for any info.


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 02:00 AM

G'day Les,

The concept of a "Bush Band" is, to some degree, a polite fiction. In the pioneering days any instruments around the place were used and this extended to the more portable 'orchestral' instruments like clarinet, cornet etcetera. In fact many people reckoned the best dance bands around were the "German Bands" - not the "Oompah" brass bands of Prussia, but the various preipheral 'Germanic' people that came to Australia as refugees from the conquest of their homelands as part of the 'Unification' of Germany. Of course many of the same sort of people ended up in America.

Many recent band s play a mix of standard folk revival instruments - guitars are big, despite being vary rare in the bush before modern adhesives and plywood made the guitar feasible in the extreme temperatures and dryness of the Australian outback. The more traditionally inclined will often feature a button accordion - usually 2-row - or a concertina ... the Anglo types are thetraditional bush instrument ... English and duets systems were the province of the Salvation Army and British concertina bands.

Portable instruments played a large part in forming an Australian accent in this music. Great distances were covered by itinerant workers and nothing larger than a fiddle can be wrapped up in a swag. Whistles and mouthorgans were often the mainstay of dances at stations and other bush sites. The concertina and the very small accordions of late 19th c. brought a measure of power and harmony.

The novelty (more correctly: improvised) instruments like the tea chest bass and the lagerphone (an old broomstick covered in loosely nailed bottletops, plus folly bells and jingles ... played by bouncing on a rubber tip while rhythmically tapping and stroking with a notched stick) as well as bones and other rhythm devices of fencing wire and scrap tin, often give colour to a band. Commercial bands tend to stick closer to standard instrumentation.

All the threads of English, Scottish, Irish, and assorted European traditions went into the melting pot and produced a few interesting new mixes. The Dance music had a base in the Dance Hall and Ball Room but acquired a distinctive democratic twist, with many dances, which in their original form involved a lot of watching one couple do their bit, were done with everyone doing the same steps. this shows up, for instance when one compares the Australian style of 'Haymakers' with the Irish form or the English original 'Sir Roger de Coverley'.

During the nineteenth century, dance fashions moved through the older line, circle dances with the very British jig and reel tunes, to the quadrilles (sets, such as the 'First Set' or the 'Lancers') on to the various couple dances - polkas, mazurkas and waltzes, but also a real long-time passion for the varsovienne.

In the folk revival, bands originally were very much song-oriented, doing traditional and contemporary songs from a strongly Irish influenced British tradition. Dancing was often from English (e.g. EFDSS) sources and it was some time before field collectors thought to collect Australian dances along with the tunes and songs.

Most bands that seek to have a strong Australian feel to their dance music concentrate on the various types of sets, even though couple dances were the great crazes of the latter part of the 19th century. A lot of music that feels quite different from the all-pervasive Irish sessions comes from this period and my group, 'Backblocks Musicians' (working entirely from Australian-collected material - which obviously has past histories all round the place) concentrates on these styles.

A good site for further, detailed information is: Australian Bush Music Wongawilli Style at . This is put together by a really good traditional band "Wongawilli" and 'The Wongawilli Dancers'. It looks as if the Wongas will be touring America this year, if they can scrape the money together and they are really keen about their dancing and their music.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: alison
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 02:32 AM

Hi,

I am in two bush bands, catering more for your ordinary parties, weddings, church do's, fundraisers etc rather than for accomplished dancers (who do the fancier stuff).

Our instrumentation is guitar (accoustic, although one of the bands is more electric), bass, mandolin, lagerphone, and me on a variety of whistle, flute, accordion, bodhran, and keyboard as necessary, + we all sing Aussie songs.

For inexperienced dancers we do things like.... the Heel and Toe polka, Circassian circle, Virginia reel, Galopede (also known as the Queensland backstep), Barn dance, Gay Gordons etc...... (all easy for everyone from toddlers to oldies.)

We are not a "traditional" bush band .... but because of the instrumentation we then have the versatility to do other modern stuff too... which the audience usually request especially at parties etc.....

hope this helps.....

If you want recordings..... check out Wongawilli (as suggested by Bob)for a traditional sound, or the Bushwackers for a more upbeat version (drums and electric guitars +the usual traditional instruments).

Slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: RWilhelm
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 09:04 AM

A good source for Australian CD's is Gregs Music World. They have quite a lot of music not readily available in America.


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 10:02 AM

Hello All!

Pardon the temporary digression from this very interesting topic (Bob Bolton can attest to my proven sincerity), but it strikes me that Wongawilli sounds a lot like the part of Bill Clinton's anatomy that keeps getting him into those, er, tight spots.

Back to the bush, I tried searching Greag's Music World for Wongawilli and came up, er, empty handed. Anybody got any suggestions. Keep it, er, clean folks.

All the best.


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Les B
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 11:32 AM

Thanks all, especially Bob, for all the info. It just so happens that I've been listening to a "Wongawilli" CD for the past couple of days, hence my questions. Bob, could you expound a bit more on the "Lancers" set, I've seen music with that title in a turn of the century fiddle tune book. Also, what is the "EFDSS" you reference in regard to dance ?


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 04:53 PM

G'day Les,

Sorry to be acronimically cryptic. EFDSS stands for the English Folk Song & Dance Society and they have been there (Cecil Sharp - or C# - House, in London) for ever. The pioneer modern collectors of British folk song mostly worked with the EFDSS and there are many different subgroups concerned with both song and dance.

In the postwar period their style of dancing flirted with the schools' curricula and their Community Dance Manuals were holy writ to a whole generation of physical education teachers. I certainly learnt dance from this source in Australia as a promary school student. These were mostly the simple group dances, in lines and circles and without too much of potentially stimulating contact, as in couples dances.

The 'Lancers' was one of the first of the Quadrilles ... highly structured dances for four couple facing each other in a square set. Quadrilles were made up of a number of parts, mini-dances within the greater whole and each couple would do a specified set of steps, repeated in turn by the next couple then that section of music finished and a the next part began.

Experienced (read obsessive?) dancers love the qudrilles for their variety, complexity and grace. there has been a great revival of interest in all the range of quadrilles among Aussie dancers. The Caledonian (Scots) have always clung to their specific version of The Lancers ... at our colonial balls, they just form a set among themselves and do their thing. The Lancers was also something of an identifying feature of English Home Counties house parties of the inter-war (WWI - WWII) period.

The name 'Lancers' suggests the origin of the quadrille, from the Spanish 'cuadrilla' (or Italian 'quadriglia') a troop (squad) or company. The dance is supposed to suggest the cavaly practices in which four mounted cavalry men trained their horses to fight the enemy's mount while they fought the man. The Spanish Riding School, in Vienna (?), where the great white Lippizaner horses 'dance' is a relic of the same traditions.

The great fad for quadrilles was the mid 19th century and 'The Lancers' seems to be the most durable survival and is often the shorthand (shortspeak?) for the whole group. At the height of its popularity, there were endless sets of music published but the 'bush' musician made do with whatever familiar tunes could be squeezed into the currently popular dance times.

The form of the quadrille was appropriated when Calvinistic churches of middle America banned sinful dancing. The kids came up with 'calling games' ... no music, no couple hold, arranged in open squares with a caller giving directions. Eventually church authorities had to admit that this was dancing, but wasn't TOO sinful and it became 'Square Dancing'. I'm told similar "non-dances" still happen among the country Reform Lutherans in South Africa - a very similar religious tradition and environment.

Extra Note to Liam's Brother: G'day Dan,

I don't know why there is nothing of Wongawilli on Greg's Music World site ... Wongas have at least 2 CDs and a few cassette tapes. The best site for them is obviously their own "Australian Bush Music Wongawilli Style" (at http://wollongong.starway.net.au/~gsmurray/index.html#contents ). I thought I posted that address yesterday, but it has vanished from my reply. Perhaps I should not have put it into < brackets > or I should have added some arcane HTTP code to nail it into place!

Wongas are a great traditional band, even though Dave De Santi is a first generation Neapolitan/Australian. Their sources are from local Illawarra (country area, south of Sydney) musicians and singers and they don't sound like a 'plastic' folk band. Dave's mother-in-law is drummer with 'The Marshall Mount Merrymakers', a dance band that has been going for 60 years and built their own dance hall about 45 years ago, when the local school hall overflowed.

Regards

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 05:03 PM

G'day again,

Sorry: 'esprit de l'escalier' ... after that remark by Liam's Brother, I should explain that Wongawilli is a coal-mining ghost town at the foot of the Illawarra escarpment. One of the few things still standing is a nice country hall and the Wongawilli Band and Wongawilli Dancers have it for a 'peppercorn rental' ... as long as they keep it standing, painted and tidy.

It's a great asset - they can hold dances for a few dollars entry because they aren't paying city rents and the band are there to play for practice/fun ... and the keen dancers ditto! It works well in the country because everyone expects to drive long distances to a social function and they draw on something like a 100 kilometre radius for dancers.

It makes us Sydney folkies, dealing with local councils planning on a hall-rental-led financial recovery, bands that have to make a living in an expensive city and weekend traffic jams, quite jealous.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Les B
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 08:10 PM

Thanks, Bob, I did a little surfing and found the Wongawilli site, but your fine explanation of the Lancers far surpasses their info. I believe that what were termed "calling games" became "play party" games here in America. After looking at the Wongawilli site I'm now considering building a lagerphone. What else do you use besides beer bottle caps -- the "hawk" bells or "sleigh" bells you can sometimes find at horse tack or harness shops ?? I went back and looked up the old thread here at Mudcat about Alan of Australia's "Foster" lagerphone, so I have the basic idea.


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: katluaghing
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 12:53 AM

Anyone else heard Yothu Yindi? I bought their CD "Tribal Voice" after hearing them on public radio & seeing them on television. They've got some great cuts on there. According to the liner notes, the traditional music they play is that of the Gumatj & Rirratingu clans. The band is from the "Amhem Land's Gove Peninsular" and are of the Yolngu (Aboriginal)people.

kat


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 01:42 AM

G'day Les,

A lagerphone is great fun ... if you notice, after emptying the requisite 150 - 200 beer bottles! There is no limit to what you might attach - the instrument actually harks back to the "Chinese Pavilion", "Turkish Crescent" or "Jingling Johnny" - all the same intrument, a staff covered with brass jingles, often pairs of cresent-shaped pieces that jingled as the staff was swayed back and forth (hence "Turkish Crescent") and often the top was a cascade of succeedingly larger perforated brass cones (which looked like a "Chinese Pavilion").

Theese were played in Eastern country as a rather quiet rhythm accompaniment to dancing, but were adopted by the European 'Military Bands' of the 19th century as a sort of Drum Major's staff with sound effects. They tended to call the instrument a "Jingling Johnny".

I have seen old Australian photographs of makeshift bands with all sorts of things attached to an old broomstick or sapling as a sort of improvised "Jingling Johnny" and I think that the Lagerphone was just the next step in making a useful rhythm instrument from found materials.

The real Australian innovation was not the use of the newly available resource crown seals (available here after ~1905) but the supercharging of the sound possibilities by fitting a bouncy rubber 'crutch tip' to produce a strong primary beat by bouncing, then striking and stroking with a notched hardwood striker to give a secondary and tertiary beat.

The provision af little brass bells and jingles gave the possibility of a fourth level of beat, by flicking the wrist to produce occasional bursts of jingles. The lagerphone can also be decorated with coloured ribbons and boards with band names and/or pictures ... making it somewhere between a drum kit and a regimental flag!

If you are interested, I have written a small pamphlet on traditional bush instruments, as well as a few monographs on aspects of the lagerphone - especially the importance of good design and construction for the striker. If you give me an email address, I can send the appropriate bits as an MS Word file, with illustrations, that you could print out. I know I can't overload the valuable bandwidth of Mudcat for this purpose, but it presents no problem to send it to an individual address.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From:
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 03:20 AM

G'day,
Of course to be really Aussie, it must be made from a branch of a gum tree!

I usually make mine fairly heavy so that it bounces better, actually takes less effort, less tiring to play 20 mins of the Virginia Reel.

The rubber stop is a good heavy duty door stop. My striker (bow?) is a small axe handle. Never counted the bottle tops, must be well over 200. The preparation can be lotsa fun. If you can scrape out the plastic insert in the bottle top. It was easier when they were cork.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 03:24 AM

Whoops! I was operating without a cookie & my name didn't go into the previous post.

Cheers,Alan


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 04:24 PM

G'day again, especially katluaghing,

Yothu Yindi are pretty much a rock band - rock 'n roll being the pretty much the most popular musical idiom among modern, particularly urbanised, Aboriginal groups.

I have the rather remote distinction of sharing a place in a poster series with them. The Australian Broadcasting Commission, in 1990, brought out a second edition of "The ABC Book of Musical Instruments", a book by Michael Atherton aimed as junior high schools. As with the 1980 edition, they had an accompanying series of posters of different band types and suggested class activities.

Their marketing people asked me to arrange a bush band, but they kept changing the date, time and place. In the end they wanted a band at 5.30pm on a Wednesday afternoon at their Gore Hill practice studios. It was a very 'scratch' band! Myself with Anglo concertina(and my button accordion, bones, whistle, mouthorgan and "Barcoo Dog" rattler scattered in the foreground), a lass named Meg Ryan ( a schoolteacher who played mandolin) and a fiddling friend named Ralph Pride who brought his 7 and 11-year-old daughters who played my lagerphone and bush (tea chest) bass.

This went into the final poster series along with the Sydney Chamber Quartet, a Latin American group 'Papalote', the Sydney University Gamelan, ... and Yothu(u?) Yindi. The ABC reckoned they liked ours the best because the target audience, 12 to 14 year-olds, could identify with the range of ages in our 'band'.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Les B
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 08:01 PM

Bob, I would indeed like to see the instructional phamplet -- I've already acquried the caps, a rather tall and sturdy rake handle, and a rubber crutch tip, and am now realizing that some measurements must be applied. My e-mail is lesben@MT.net


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: jo77
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 08:23 PM

Bli***y what a strange thread. Australia source of skiffle I think - Odd USA folk has it's most powerfull influence from - nope not Africa but Native America!! Listen to the old timey music. I suspect that Australia just like Merica takes much of it's rhythms from the native culture. Also why should any one claim 'ownership' of a music ??? Just a thought - if Heights of Alma is a tune who needs to own it and why????


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Feb 99 - 12:31 AM

Hullo, Bob,

Thanks for the clarification on Yothu Yindi (yes, it is "u", I checked the cd) and the chuckle about the poster; quite a band you'd got there, by the sounds of it!

I, too, would enjoy a copy of your bit about bush instruments. I'm eager to try out a piece of quaking asp, what we usually refer to as aspen tree, to make a lagerphone out of. My daughter cut it, peeled it, and carved a bit of a tall walking stick for me. I think it might work really well. I'll have to make Rog switch from aluminum cans of beer though!

To all: While I haven't been following this complete thread, I guess to each his own. Nothing makes me happier, sometimes, than to put on one of my favourite Native American drumming tapes, and play along on my own drum. Also, to Antiguan music my son-in-law gave me, to a middle eastern tape of dumbek drumming, Irish bodhran(sp?)or to taiko drums of Japan. Personally, I don't care too much where the influence comes from, as much as what I feel in my heart when I hear it. My heart, as some American Indians say, is "red", although I can only claim a small amount of NA blood from a gggrandmother. But, mixed in there, just as much, is the love I have for Scottish, Irish, and English traditional music and almost any other ethnic/traditional music I hear; they all have a beat, which to me and some of them, represents the heartbeat of Mother Earth, and that is what sings to me.

Katlaughing


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: alison
Date: 26 Feb 99 - 05:10 PM

Hi,

Here's a picture of that lagerphone again.. to show you the sort of thing you're aiming for...

Lagerphone

I have made a full size one and a small one.. my midi-phone.... or half-a-lager phone which is only about 3 foot long.. great for kids to play or for not being too noisy in a folk club,..(although it still has a pretty good sound.)

Have fun

Slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 26 Feb 99 - 08:53 PM

Hi Bob!

I ordered the Wongawillis CD from Musica Pangaea today. I look forward to hearing it.

All the best, Dan


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 28 Feb 99 - 05:25 PM

G'day All,

LesB: I have sent to your email address three MS Word files on the subject of lagerphones, lagerphone strikers and an extract from my booklet on 'Bush Instruments' ... a general look a folk band instruments in the Australian revival.

katlaughing: The files sent to Les B total about 700 kb and include illustrations, so they are no appropriate to post to the forum. If you would like a copy, I can forward them to an email address.

Liam's Brother: G'day Dan, I hope you enjoy Wongawilli ... you may even have the chance to hear them in the flesh later this year, if they can get their American trip organised. I'm off to the Illawarra Folk Festival, later this month, a great little festival, very much organised by Wongawilli and their friends of Illawarra Folk Club.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 12:38 AM

Thank you, Bob. I'm sorry I didn't leave my address earlier. If you're still willing, it would reach me at katlaf@coffey.com

Thanks for all of your time and effort!

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 01:15 AM

G'day ...

Katlaughing: I will send the same files I brought in for les B. I hope they are interesting and useful. Improvised instruments are a great interest with me because I believe that the need to improvise and make do built important parts of the Australian Pshyche ... and musical style.

Les B: I'm glad you enjoyed my material ... your comment on dimensions highlights a common problem with lagerphone - people want to make them too big and play them too hard. The instrument has a great power as originally seen (made of an old broom-handle ... not a gum sapling, Alan!).

When brawny young lads in bush bands build them out of heavy hoe handles and beat them with a building plank studded with upholsterers tacks, they lose all the subtleties of which the lagerphone is capable. It's like replacing a drum kit with a very large bass drum ... with snares! It's different ... but is it music?

Using a traditional instrument and working on the richness of variation and style is far more profitable ... and powerful, in the long run.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 04:23 AM

G'day,
It may be personal preference but I find it hard to be creative with a light (i.e. traditional broomstick) lagerphone. A heavy one bounces better & is actually easier to play once you get a rhythm going. A lot depends on the rubber stop at the bottom, it needs to be good & solid.

I've also found that bottle tops nailed to a horizontal or angled surface produce sound more efficiently than those mounted on a vertical surface. (It seems that it's good for bottle tops to bounce up & down on top of each other). My lagerphone may be a deviation from the traditional but it's a bit innovative & I've had people remarking on the sound, especially compared to lighter ones.

My playing style is probably more suited to an audience used to hearing drummers than to those expecting to hear a traditional bush band, but our band is a high energy band, described by one traditionalist as "not really a bush band", I suppose the electric guitar & synthesiser have something to do with that too. Fair enough - Fairport Convention aren't really a folk band either. Our audiences always have a lot of fun & don't seem to mind.....

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 04:57 PM

G'day Alan,

My remark about saplings is to rebut a modernist tendency to portrait anything in the past as crude and primitive and to use kitchy bits to look "old". Many things made in the last century were of excellent quality, handmade to individual purpose - at the cost of a lot of labour (which was cheap).

Today everything is mass-produced at no cost in labour (the machine does it) and materials, which do still cost, are skimped. An old broomhandle has considerably heavier than a cheap supemarket stick and is a good median weight for a lagerphone. Probably the nearest thing is a good garden rake handle.

What strikes me as going too far, is to use something too heavy, like a heavy hoe handle ... but it does become a matter of style ... do you go for effects over which you have control (all the extra twists and taps that a traditional pattern permits) or do you launch a behemoth that carries on at its on pace ... while you hang on to it?

On the matter of the sound of bottletops on horizontal surface; the first lagerphone that the general public saw ... Brian Loughlin's one in the original Bushwhackers (1954/57) had two butt-joined hardwood boards (about 450mm/18" wide) mounted on the top. This gave a group bottletops bouncing vertically on top and an equal group striking a flat section in front. Both give more sound than tops striking only two points on a round handle. The tops on the stick are probably more important for appearance than for sound.

My lagerphone is based on Brian's design and gets both a loud sound and a range of interesting variation ... and it is possible to accompany songs without raising homicidal thoughts on the part of the singer!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: alison
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 11:50 PM

hi,

I would just like to point out that my lagerphones, (big and small).. and Alan of Oz's are made from gum trees... but... no trees were harmed in their acquisition... (they had already given themselves up willingly in the interest of music!!).

I think they play very nicely and are controllable. Personally I like something a bit chunkier than a broom handle to hold..... The one I made for the kids is probably about that thickness and they manage it really well.

Slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 11:47 AM

Just thought I'd refresh this as I've been collecting bits to make a lagerphone and after rereading Bob Bolton's and others' descriptions, I thought others might also like to read this thread.

I've been fascinated about these since the first time I read about them, here at the Mudcat.

Thanks, again, to all who wrote so informatively.

kat


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: alison
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 06:49 PM

my link above doesn't work anymore... but to see and hear a lagerphone you can visit this site

bunyip bush band

you get to hear us sing and play a bit too


slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 07:16 PM

Very kewl, Alison!! I love the sound! Thanks very much!


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:45 PM

Musica Panagea is, unfortunately, defunct. CAMSCO has a few Wongawilli CDs in stock, though. Also Gerry Hallom's fine "Undiscovered Australia II.


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:06 AM

G'day Kat,

Since this site, there has been a dedicated site for lagerphones! It's run by Keith Sayers, from Canberra at:

Lagerphones
Keith (despite being a member of the Canberra PC Users Group) isn't too good on graphics ... and seems to have done something that 'ate' a lot of his earlier examples, leaving only very poor 16-colour versions, but he's working on replacing them.

The text is fine and helpful (although you might recognise the odd word or phrase from me!).

Have fun - just remember they sound much better if you drank all the beer to provide the 100 - 200 bottle tops! (Actually, Dad used to have the Boy Scouts at Jamborees, where he gave bush music classes, make "lollywaterphones" ... "Lolly Water" being a local term for soft drinks!)

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: JennieG
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 01:51 AM

Where I grew up in the bush, a million years ago, bush bands didn't exist. We had regular dance bands - piano, clarinet, saxophone, trumpet, drums, etc., but just one of each instrument, not a 'big band' sound. Anything that smacked of a "bush" sound was referred to very derogatively as hillbilly music; that included performers like Tex Morton, Smokey Dawson, Slim Dusty, etc., and anything with guitars and/or banjos in it.

Come to think of it their names don't sound Australian do they??!!!

The dances we did then were mostly couples dances such as waltz, Pride of Erin, gypsy tap, there were no set dances done. The Lancers and First Set (which I really like dancing now) had long gone from Tamworth when I was young and lovely.

Cheers

JennieG who is having breathing trouble with smoke from the fires and we are nowhere near them


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 08:03 AM

G'day JennieG,

Yes - have a look ... way up at second post, at the first few paragraphs. The "Bush Band" is a deliberate creation of something that might have happened in the late 19th century (far before you were around) ... and, at that, it is fairly contrived, particularly in taking advantage of modern guitars ... and amplification.

Them old blokes just played hard on squeezeboxes ... and knew that the dancers knew what they were doing.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: GUEST,John Knox
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 11:22 PM

To: Bob Bolton
would you be able to provide details of the lagerphone as described. My 5 year old is interested in making one for himself. TIA

John Knox


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: cobber
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:05 AM

Seeing as how this excellent thread has been reopened, here's a few stories about my band, Cobbers. Firstly, in the early days of the band (1968 onward) we hated the name "bush band" but it was one that everyone was using then to call a folk band that played anything like Australian music. We always though it very restrictive and also, to us, a true bush band was the sort of unrehearsed wonders that happened at festivals and sessions. Once it became rehearsed and professional, it lost that "bush" flavour. It's all semantics, I guess. As to the instrument, one of the earliest ones I saw was just after leaving school in '64. I was at a camp and one of the older blokes had one. It was a simple branch with about a dozen or so tops on it and was played quite quietly, not like the future developments that could rival a full drum kit. Around '69 we played at a wedding in Buxton, Victoria, a tiny town of a pub and a service station in those days. The pub owner's daughter was getting married and so there were people coming from all over. One big timber cutter and his wife came in and asked to join the band. He had the biggest feet I'd ever seen and played a tea chest bass and she played a very loud lagerphone. The amazing feature of her instrument was two saucepan lids on the top of the stick that were held apart by a spring. Every time she hit the ground, they crashed together. That was in the days before we acquired a p.a. so we just had to follow the beat she set. It was a great night. In the seventies, when we were playing the uni circuits and went through the high volume period that was needed to be heard above several thousand drunken students, the lagerphone was too quiet to be heard properly, so Christy plated on a stage made out of a pallet which had a pick-up fitted and was routed throught the pa. It was also miked in two places. No wonder we're all half deaf now! In 1979 when we went to LOndon, we played at the Cafe Royale and as there were four bands on and we were doing the floor show they ashed us to perform down on the dance floor. We didn't mind but we pointed out that we would need a piece of board to play on to protect the floor. The manager, who was pretty officious said, " My good man! This floor was laid in the seventeenth century. It has survived the blitz and stilletto heels. Nothing you could do to it would hurt it". It was about fifteen seconds into the first song when the chips started flying. We finished as the roadies were trying to gaffer down the larger pieces. The night before, we'd been to see the Dubliners at Luton and they were returning the visit that night. When we had arrived, this same manager had said to us, "There were some Irish people who had called to see us. They said they were Dubliners or something. I sent them away". You can see why we didn't feel too sorry for the bastard. The next week we played in Dublin and half way through the show, the power of the vibrations that the lagerphone produced brought one of the speaker boxes crashing down off the wall onto tyhe tables. I warn you, folks, they can be dangerous!


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 11:47 AM

John Knox - Bob was not at his local folk club tonight!!

I assume he was up the coast at Umina Festival, so no doubt he will contact you when he gets back.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Helen
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 03:53 PM

Thanks for the interesting history, cobber. Brings back memories of going to see the Maitland Bush Band. I can't remember who played the lagerphone, but it might have been John Burns, perhaps.

As Bob Bolton said earlier, lagerphones can be dangerous to your health in another way. You've got to drink enough beer to get enough bottle caps to make it. And in those days it was longnecks and not stubbies or throwdowns (translation: full bottles, 750 ml, or 375 ml bottles or 275 ml bottles).

So maybe the whole lagerphone thing should be restricted to people over 18??   ;-)

Helen


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 08:37 PM

It's possible to cheat, you can buy 'home brew' supplies - a pack of couple of hundred crown seals for very little money nowadays, sometimes, even in the Supermarkets.

A good point - old tops had cork seals which would fall out with age - new tops have plastic seals - should you remove them for better tone and volume?

This is a serious musical question!


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:39 AM

G'day Helen,

When Dad made up ... or had the Boy Scouts make up ... such rattlesticks they were what he called "lollywaterphones" ... because all the crown seals came from soft drink bottles (locally called "lolly water").

When I made up a (more or less) replica of the first lagerphone seen on Australian stages - that made and played by Brian Loughlin in The Bushwhacker Band, around 1953 - I managed to talk a couple of hundred unused KB Lager tops out of the Kent Brewery. The primary excuse was that I wanted to use the name of a good local larger ... but I also had in mind that Dad's initials were KB (Ken Bolton).

Incidentally, the lagerphone next back in history, that made by John Meredith after seeing his brother Claude's in Holbrook, is now in the National Library of Australia (it was in a display of new acquisitions until last month) ... with a striker of very pretty fiddleback maple - made by my Dad! It was rather interesting to throw in that bit of information when I had been recommended to the Pictures Librarian at the NLA to identify and date the instrument!

Foolestroupe: Bulk packs of crown seals from home brew shops are a handy source for minor projects ... but they lack the history of personal ingestion that clings to a collection of bent and branded beer bottle bungs! Old bottle tops that dated from the cork insert era do seem to have a better ring (or better memories!)

The plastic seals are getting harder and harder to gouge out of new crown seals - I can get most out by dropping a good number of crown seals top downwards into a large frying pan of poiling water, I grab a seal by its edge with angled long-nose pliers and firmly grip the seal (with my hand outside the column of rising steam, whilst levering out the plastic with a sharpish screwdriver. As soon as they cool down, it's almost impossible to loosen the glue!

When I'm doing a workshop on improvised instruments with younger kids ... I just leave the plastic seals in. So the lagerphones are not quite so loud ... well, the complaints from parents aren't either!

Sandra: Sorry, Pat was not well - I think I was catching whatever was beating her round ... and I guess I was rather depressed after the funeral of Malcolm MacKenzie, up at Lithgow on Friday. I probably would have picked up if I struggled down to The Loaded Dog ... but ...

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Joybell
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 06:58 PM

Well cobber, so that's where you fit. I'd have met you a time or two. I had a far less well-known bush-band called "Wallaby Stew". We played around the Lilydale area East of Melbourne, mostly. Learned a lot about dance-calling on the run as I went. Picked up a lot of fun work from the interest you stirred up as "The Cobbers". We took up the over-flow from bands like yours.

Bob, excellent pieces on Bush Bands.

                                     Cheers and hello cobber, Joy.


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 07:00 PM

Bob,

I'll have to get on to you for a supply of that "poiling water" - is it anything like the Queensland brew known as 'XXXX' ? - although from its effects it sounds more like 'Dead Dog Scrumpy'!!!


:-P


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 11:27 PM

G'day Foolestroupe,

I'm afraid that, if I aspired to being a good touch-typist, I've left my run a few decades too late!

(Or ... just maybe ... my accent has been getting too much in character for the "novelty" group I will field at the Londonderry Rural Fire Service fundraiser in two weeks: The Blue Mts Bush Fire Brigade German Band. We'll be presenting Australian-collected tunes with a strong "Germanic" ancestry - played on concertina / button accordion / cornet / trombone ... maybe clarinet ... maybe banjo - in the guise of a circa 1890 street corner band!)

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: muppitz
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 04:33 AM

Just quickly flicking through, I used to know of a band called "The Rocky River Bush Band".

I am reliably informed that they are still operating, although I haven't seen them myself for a few years and the line up has changed quite significantly since then so I'm afraid I can't be more specific than that!

Muppitz x


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Subject: RE: Australian Bush Bands
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:31 AM

Muppitz - The Rocky River Bush Band was in Europe in summer this year, I don't know where they performed. All I know is they stayed with Helge Arildso in Denmark & have performed with him.

I have 2 of their CDs - Sea Boots & Swags (1999) & We'll Plow the Briny Ocean (1997). Line up Pete & Annie Thornton, Des Fenoughty, Dylan Woolcock, Fritz Fitton, Cate Burke. www.rockyriverbushband.speedlink.com.au

the album with Helge - Shanghaied crew - Seasongs & Shanties with Bob Webb, Cztery Refy, Rocky River Bush Band (1997)

Last year at the (Oz) National Folk Festival they perfomed with Danny Spooner & The Roaring Forties & what a session of shanties & seasongs that was.

sandra


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