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Lyr Req/Add: Sidney Allen / Claud Allen

DigiTrad:
CLAUD ALLEN
SIDNEY ALLEN


Gene 06 Jul 06 - 11:06 PM
Peace 06 Jul 06 - 11:10 PM
Jim Dixon 07 Jul 06 - 03:15 PM
Peace 07 Jul 06 - 03:36 PM
Sorcha 07 Jul 06 - 05:37 PM
Joe Offer 07 Jul 06 - 07:04 PM
Joe Offer 07 Jul 06 - 07:21 PM
Peace 07 Jul 06 - 07:26 PM
Peace 07 Jul 06 - 07:29 PM
Gene 07 Jul 06 - 09:49 PM
Joe Offer 08 Jul 06 - 02:24 AM
GUEST,Debbie in Utah 19 Jun 07 - 04:18 PM
Debbie in Utah 20 Jun 07 - 10:27 AM
Goose Gander 20 Jun 07 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,gwb 25 Aug 16 - 08:48 PM
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Subject: Req: Lyrics & Singer
From: Gene
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 11:06 PM

saw this post while surfing the net...

the requestor is looking for song about a Judge and the man he was trying. The man eventually shot the judge. The requestor only rembers the following...

he mounted to the bar with a pistol in his hand,
and sent Judge Thomas to the promised land"


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Subject: Lyr Add: SIDNEY ALLEN
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 11:10 PM

Sidney Allen

Sidney Allen

Come all you rounders if you want to hear
The story about a cruel mountaineer.
Sidney Alien was the villain's name.
It was in a court house he won his fame.

The caller called the juror right at half past nine.
Sidnev Allen was the prisoner: he was right on time.
He mounted to the bar with his pistol in his hand
And he sent Judge .Mathey to the promised land.

Just in a few minutes the place was in a roar
The dead and the dying mere lying on the floor.
With a 39 special and a 38 fall
Sidney backed the sheriff up against the wall.

The sheriff he was in a mighty close place
With the mountaineer staring him right in the face.
He turned to the window and then he said,
"In a few more minutes we'll all be dead."

Sidney got on his pony and away he did ride,
His friends and his nephew riding by his side.
They all shook hands and swore they would hang
Before they would give up to the Valton gang.

Sidney Alien traveled, and he wandered all around
Until he was captured in that far western town.
They carried him to the station with a ball and chain,
And they put poor Sidney on that last-bound train.

They arrived at Sidney's home just at11:41,
Met his wife and his daughter and his two little sons.
They all shook hands and they knelt down to pray,
And they said, "Oh, Lord don't take our papa away.

The people all gathered from far and near
To see poor Sidney sentenced to the electric chair;
But to their great surprise the judge he said,
"He`s going to the penitentiary instead."

DT #777
Laws E5
From Hudson, Folksongs of Mississippi
Collected from Mr. T.A. Bickerstaff of Tishomingo MS
courthouse massacre occurred in Hillsville VA in 1912
SOF
apr97

from

www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/folk-song-lyrics/Sidney_Allen.htm


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Subject: RE: Req: Lyrics & Singer: He mounted to the bar
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 03:15 PM

And www.traditionalmusic.co.uk got it straight from us, including the typos:

See SIDNEY ALLEN in DigiTrad.


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Subject: RE: Req: Lyrics & Singer: He mounted to the bar
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 03:36 PM

DANG

Sorry, Jim. I didn't know the title of the song to begin with, however.


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Subject: RE: Req: Lyrics & Singer: He mounted to the bar
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 05:37 PM

Casey Jones melody?


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Subject: DT Correction: Sidney Allen
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:04 PM

Well, as long as Peace posted the DT lyrics, maybe I should post the corrected lyrics from Hudson. Looks like the the DT text came from OCR.

Sidney Allen

Come all you rounders if you want to hear
The story about a cruel mountaineer.
Sidney Allen was the villain's name.
It was in a court house he won his fame.

The caller called the juror right at half past nine.
Sidney Allen was the prisoner; he was right on time.
He mounted to the bar with his pistol in his hand
And he sent Judge Mathey to the promised land.

Just in a few minutes the place was in a roar
The dead and the dying were lying on the floor.
With a 39 special and a 38 fall
Sidney backed the sheriff up against the wall.

The sheriff he was in a mighty close place
With the mountaineer staring him right in the face.
He turned to the window and then he said,
"In a few more minutes we'll all be dead."

Sidney got on his pony and away he did ride,
His friends and his nephew riding by his side.
They all shook hands and swore they would hang
Before they would give up to the Valton gang.

Sidney Allen traveled, and he wandered all around
Until he was captured in that far western town.
They carried him to the station with a ball and chain,
And they put poor Sidney on that last-bound train.

They arrived at Sidney's home just at 11:41,
Met his wife and his daughter and his two little sons.
They all shook hands and they knelt down to pray,
And they said, "Oh, Lord don't take our Papa away."

The people all gathered from far and near
To see poor Sidney sentenced to the electric chair;
But to their great surprise the judge he said,
"He's going to the penitentiary instead."

DT #777
Laws E5
From Hudson, Folksongs of Mississippi
Collected by Mr. T.A. Bickerstaff of Tishomingo MS, from Mr. J.E. Quillen of Maud, Alabama.
This courthouse massacre occurred in Hillsville VA in 1912
SOF
apr97


There are no tunes for any of the songs in the Hudson book, but I'd say that "Casey Jones" is a good possibility. Here's what Hudson says about the background story:
    The ballad is apparently based on the sensational courthouse massacre at Hillsville, Virginia, in 1912. "when Judge Thornton L. Massie sentenced Floyd Allen to a year in the penitentiary...the sentence was received with a volley of pistol shots from the sentenced man and from twenty of his relatives and retainers in the court room. In less than a minute 200 shots had been fired; the judge, the sheriff, and the prosecuting attorney lay dead; the clerk of the court and several of the jurors were suffering from bullet wounds; and the murderers had swung onto their horses and headed into the mountains." [Literary Digest, March 30, 1912]
The next song in the Hudson book is Kenny Wagner, another great story.
Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on the song:

Sidney Allen [Laws E5]

DESCRIPTION: The Allen Family is in court; Sidney and the others break out by shooting the judge and starting a gunfight in the court. Recaptured and brought home, he is sentenced to a long prison term instead of being executed
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1936 (Hudson)
KEYWORDS: prison fight trial feud
HISTORICAL REFERENCES:
1912 - Trial of the Allen family
FOUND IN: US(Ap,MW,SE,So)
REFERENCES (8 citations):
Laws E5, "Sidney Allen"
Hudson 104, pp. 242-243, "Sidney Allen" (1 text)
Gardner/Chickering 140, "Sidney Allen" (1 text)
Thomas-Makin', p. 155, (no title) (1 text, 1 tune)
Warner 113, "Hillsville, Virginia" (1 text, 1 tune)
Burt, pp. 254-255, "Sidney Allen" (1 text)
Darling-NAS, pp. 191-192, "Sidney Allen" (1 text)
DT 777, SIDALLEN

Roud #612
RECORDINGS:
Vernon Dalhart, "Sydney Allen" (Domino 3642, 1925; Banner 1672, 1926)
Henry Whitter, "Sydney Allen" (OKeh 40109, 1924)

CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Casey Jones (I)" [Laws G1] (meter)
cf. "Claude Allen" [Laws E6] (subject)
Notes: The members of the Allen family seem to have been the backest of backwoodsmen. Floyd Allen was sentenced to a year in prison by Judge Thornton L. Massie, whereupon the whole family started shooting and made their escape. Later captured, Claud (no e, according to contemporary sources) and Floyd were eventually executed; Sidney ("Sidna") was sentenced to prison. - RBW
File: LE05

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2006 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics & Singer:He mounted to the bar-Sidney A
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:21 PM

What are a 39 special and a 38 fall? - Warner has a 38 special and a 38 ball, which makes a lot more sense.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics & Singer:He mounted to the bar-Sidney Allen
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:26 PM

Good eye, Joe. The following is from

www.blueridgeinstitute.org/ballads/allenssongs.html

Found that site with a Google of "a 38 special and a 38 ball" (in quotation marks).


Come all you rounders, if you want to hear,
A story about a brave mountaineer,
Sidney Allen was the villain's name,
And he shot up the courthouse while he run his game.

The judge called the jury 'bout half past nine,
Sidney Allen was the prisoner, and he was on time,
He mounted to the bar with a pistol in his hand,
And he sent that Judge to the promised land.

Just a moment later the place was in a roar,
The dead and the dying were lying on the floor,
With a .38 special and a 38 ball,
Sidney backed the sheriff up against the wall.

The sheriff saw that he was in a mighty bad place,
The mountaineer was staring him right in the face,
Sidney turned to the window, and then he said,
"Just a moment more and we'll all be dead."

Sidney mounted to his pony and away he did ride,
His friends and his nephews they were riding by his side,
They all shook hands and swore they would hang,
Before they'd give in to the ball and chain.

Sidney Allen wandered and he traveled all around,
Until he was captured in a western town,
He was taken to the station with a ball and chain,
So they put poor Sydney on that eastbound train.

Sydney arrived back home at eleven forty-one,
Sidney met his wife and daughter and his two little sons,
They all shook hands and begin in to pray,
and said, "Lord, don't take our papa away."

But the people they all gathered from far and near,
Just to see poor Sydney sentenced to the electric chair,
And to their surprise, the judge he said,
"He's going to the penitentiary instead."

Link here.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics & Singer:He mounted to the bar-Sidney Allen
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:29 PM

PS, that link contains a song entitled "Claude Allen". Guess they both got their own ballad.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics & Singer:He mounted to the bar-Sidney Allen
From: Gene
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 09:49 PM

thanks to all..


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Subject: RE: Lyrics & Singer:He mounted to the bar-Sidney A
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 02:24 AM

Claud Allen is also in the Digital Tradition. Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on the song:

Claude Allen [Laws E6]

DESCRIPTION: Claude Allen is placed on trial and, due to the Governor's indifference, is handed over for execution, leaving his mother and sweetheart to mourn
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1917 (Brown)
KEYWORDS: trial execution family mourning
HISTORICAL REFERENCES:
1912 - Trial of the Allen family. While in court, Sidney Allen shot the judge, and the rest of the family was soon shooting too. Sidney was sentenced to prison, but Claud and Floyd Allen were sentenced to death
FOUND IN: US(Ro,SE)
REFERENCES (4 citations):
Laws E6, "Claude Allen"
BrownII 246, "Claud Allen" (2 texts plus mention of 2 more)
Burt, pp. 253-254, "(Claud Allen)" (1 text)
DT 771, CLAUDALN

Roud #2245
RECORDINGS:
Clarence Ashley & Doc Watson, "Claude Allen" (on Ashley02)
Hobart Smith, "Claude Allen" (on FOTM) (on LomaxCD1705)

CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Sidney Allen" [Laws E5] (characters)
cf. "The Triplett Tragedy" (tune)
Notes: For a bit of background to this song, see the notes to "Sidney Allen." Although the whole tragedy occurred in the twentieth century, it appears very little is known of this family.
Clarence Ashley said that he taught the ballad to Hobart Smith c. 1918, but that's a bit tenuous to assign an earliest date. - PJS
Even more curious are Burt's notes. Her source was one Dragline Miller of Ely, Nevada, who from her description sounds to have been born in 1875 or earlier. He said he learned this *before* his prospecting days. Given that the shooting occurred in 1912, when Miller was at least 37, something odd is going on. Though the strongest likelihood is simply that Miller's memory was bad. - RBW
File: LE06

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2006 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: Lyr Add: CLAUD ALLEN (different version)
From: GUEST,Debbie in Utah
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:18 PM

CLAUD ALLEN
(Supposed to have been written by Claud Allen himself, while in jail awaiting execution)

My name Claud Allen, I must die.
The judge decreed, oh hear my cry!
When I was young, in the bloom of youth
I loved young girls, that is the truth.

In father's tavern day and night
I did hard work with all my might.
The only summons I could ever hear
Was, "Bring on more gin, ale, and beer."

In the Hillsville Courthouse, by his side,
I loaded his guns with respect and pride.
The same did this girl for her father there;
she was hailed for her deeds - I get the chair.

There does the girl, I do declare,
With her painted cheeks and powdered hair.
Her painted cheeks and powdered hair
Has brought this poor soul to a snare.

My dear old father, it was he
Who caused this sad, sad misery;
This sad destruction did on my bring,
And caused my poor neck for to swing.

The time has come; I must go away.
I cannot here no longer stay.
Hark, from my tomb loud billows roar!
Oh Lord! Have mercy on my soul!

I learned this song from my father, "West Virginia Slim" Roby Russell Mabry, known most of his life as Slim Mabery (yes, the last name is spelled differently). He was born at home, just outside of Woodlawn, Virginia, on April 7, 1908; died in March of 1995, one month before his 88th birthday. He started collecting rare and unusual songs as a young teen, and continued throughout his life. I believe we have the lyrics to somewhere around 500 songs, but recordings of him singing only about 100 of them on inexpensive cassette tapes made in the 1970's-80's. Unfortunately very few have been digitized at this point.

Almost all my belongings, including notes on my father's songs, where he may have learned them, etc., are in storage until home construction is completed later this year. I feel confident that he learned these words to "Claud Allen" while still living in the Virginia/West Virginia area, which he left in the mid 1920's. His parents, grandparents, and family friends all had instruments and would often sit up singing songs late into the night, and it is likely one of them heard the song from someone somehow connected to the Hillsville Courthouse Shootout that took place in Carroll County Virginia in 1912, during which young Claud Allen loaded guns for his father.

I found lyrics in your database for a different song, also called "Claud Allen," which is written from a third-person point of view. I was very interested to find anything related to the song title in your database!

Enjoy

DL


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Subject: RE: Req/ADD: Sidney Allen / Claude Allen / Claud Allen
From: Debbie in Utah
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:27 AM

I just found and joined Mudcats yesterday, and posted the CLAUD ALLEN song above. If a person types "Hillsville Courthouse Shootout" in their search engine, there is a lot of information out there on the history of the incident.

Just a couple of items to note:

Claud was spelled without the "e" on the end.
Sidna was the spelling, but pronounced "Sidney" at the time of the incident. It is interesting to know there is a ballad named for him, AND that it was written with the contemporary spelling.

Having fun in Utah...


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Subject: RE: Req/ADD: Sidney Allen / Claude Allen / Claud Allen
From: Goose Gander
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:44 AM

Hello Debbie, and welcome to the Mudcat! That's great that your father collected, recorded and committed to memory so many songs. Please feel welcome to post anything from his collection that's interesting to you, because I promise there are plenty of people who visit here who would love to hear about it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req/Add: Sidney Allen / Claud Allen
From: GUEST,gwb
Date: 25 Aug 16 - 08:48 PM

I well remember Slim Mabery, who I used to hear sing at NPS social events at Lassen Volcanic National Park in the early 1950's. He may have been the first folksinger that I ever saw. As a child at the time, my favorite song of his was "Barnacle Bill the Sailor". My family, now including even the younger ones, still refers to Chaos Crags Lake (as it was officially renamed) as Lake Juanita, which Slim named for his wife.


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