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concertina tutor for song accompaniment

The Sandman 08 Jul 06 - 12:05 PM
Desert Dancer 08 Jul 06 - 06:58 PM
The Sandman 08 Jul 06 - 07:07 PM
Desert Dancer 08 Jul 06 - 07:26 PM
Geoff the Duck 08 Jul 06 - 07:48 PM
Fliss 08 Jul 06 - 07:55 PM
Desert Dancer 08 Jul 06 - 08:45 PM
Desert Dancer 08 Jul 06 - 08:51 PM
Artful Codger 08 Jul 06 - 11:23 PM
yrlancslad 09 Jul 06 - 02:24 AM
GUEST,helen 09 Jul 06 - 04:16 AM
The Sandman 09 Jul 06 - 05:00 AM
Bob Bolton 09 Jul 06 - 05:05 AM
GUEST,Andy 09 Jul 06 - 05:42 AM
The Sandman 09 Jul 06 - 06:11 AM
Leadfingers 09 Jul 06 - 06:53 AM
The Sandman 09 Jul 06 - 12:46 PM
The Sandman 10 Jul 06 - 08:53 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jul 06 - 09:41 AM
The Sandman 10 Jul 06 - 11:49 AM
Fliss 10 Jul 06 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,Rowan 10 Jul 06 - 06:41 PM
The Sandman 10 Jul 06 - 06:54 PM
Fliss 10 Jul 06 - 07:28 PM
Desert Dancer 11 Jul 06 - 12:24 AM
The Sandman 11 Jul 06 - 03:50 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 06 - 05:51 PM
The Sandman 11 Jul 06 - 06:30 PM
Tootler 11 Jul 06 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Rowan 11 Jul 06 - 07:31 PM
Anglo 11 Jul 06 - 08:15 PM
Artful Codger 11 Jul 06 - 10:37 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 12 Jul 06 - 04:10 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jul 06 - 04:36 AM
The Sandman 12 Jul 06 - 06:26 AM
GUEST,helen 12 Jul 06 - 05:28 PM
The Sandman 12 Jul 06 - 07:49 PM
pavane 13 Jul 06 - 06:29 AM
The Sandman 13 Jul 06 - 08:12 AM
The Sandman 14 Jul 06 - 04:09 AM
Artful Codger 14 Jul 06 - 07:11 AM
Tootler 14 Jul 06 - 06:59 PM
Artful Codger 15 Jul 06 - 02:42 AM
Tootler 15 Jul 06 - 04:44 AM
The Sandman 15 Jul 06 - 05:52 AM
Tootler 15 Jul 06 - 09:55 AM
The Sandman 15 Jul 06 - 09:39 PM
The Sandman 18 Aug 09 - 12:51 PM
Phil Edwards 18 Aug 09 - 06:29 PM
The Sandman 19 Aug 09 - 07:33 AM
The Sandman 20 Aug 09 - 06:28 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 20 Aug 09 - 08:44 AM
The Sandman 20 Aug 09 - 09:59 AM
Tootler 20 Aug 09 - 08:31 PM
The Sandman 21 Aug 09 - 04:40 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 21 Aug 09 - 04:48 AM
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Subject: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 12:05 PM

I believe that my tutor for song accompaniment on the english concertina,is the only concertina tutor that covers this subject in depth. It is available from me,Dick Miles, Cooragurteen Ballydehob County Cork eire.It is only my way of doing it, not the only way, but hope it may be useful .It has arrangements of folk songs designed to give ideas, so that the student may eventually go away and make their own arrangements of their own songs.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 06:58 PM

What flavor concertina, Dick?


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 07:07 PM

Well its not a licorice stick,neither is it a Gob stopper .its best described as a pot pourri of English Scottish and Irish traditional.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 07:26 PM

Well, that's the music played on it, and an answer to a good question I didn't ask. What I meant was, anglo or English? :-)


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 07:48 PM

The good captain says - tutor for english concertina (or was it concretina?).
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Fliss
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 07:55 PM

Sounds interesting.. might indulge myself. You havnt mentioned the price Captain B.

Ive not plucked up courage to accompany myself singing with concertina. Can with guitar, but concertina takes all my concentration.

slan
fliss


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 08:45 PM

Oops!


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 08:51 PM

And, as an player of an English concertina, but more of a singer than a player, I'm intrigued. What would the cost plus P&P to the U.S.A. be, though?

Aside from the issue of divided concentration trying to accompany a song with the concertina, my other main problem is that the instrument's louder than my voice. Any thoughts?

~ Becky in Tucson (Arizona)


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Artful Codger
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 11:23 PM

Er, use less force on the bellows? If your concertina can't play softly, look into getting a model that doesn't require as much initial force to sound. The concertina shouldn't be like bagpipes - one volume fits all. You could also try playing more in the higher registers, though this can be trying on the average listener - and neighborhood pets.

As for the divided concentration issue, you can "time-slice" your singing and playing, using the concertina for musical filler during vocal pauses or verse bridges. You can then ease into a fuller accompaniment, adding a few well-chosen chords or parallel melodic snippets as you sing. It works best with songs that have large gaps between vocal lines, or phrases which end in long, held notes.

Playing concertina accompaniment is a good way to counter the "wall of sound" syndrome guitar players are prone to. You tend to focus more on what is essential, and how notes should sing. (I'm clearly in the "less is more" school, unfashionable as that may be in these days of sensory overload and facade.)


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: yrlancslad
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 02:24 AM

A word of encouragement to all you out there thinking about, or trying to, sing to your 'tina accompaniment.I found it terribly difficult if not impossible at first, not at all like on guitar, banjo or ukelele where it seems to come quite naturally. But stick with it, it gets easier and easier and one day you find yourself hearing a neat song and just picking up the 'tina and playing and singing right along.It does help, in the beginning to know the song really well so you don't have to think about the words too much, I chose songs I'd sung unaccompanied for a long time for my first efforts.
BTW I have Dicks book but as a musical illiterate I've found it hard going but admit to not putting an awful lot of time into it so far.I forget how much I paid for it P&P to the US and there's no price in the book itself. It is pretty unique though, apart from small sections in Alistair Andersons booklet and in a tutor by an American whose name escapes me at present there is no tutor devoted to English concertina accompaniment that I know of.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: GUEST,helen
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:16 AM

Another word of encouragement ..

I gave trying to sing & play the guitar at the same time - but found it much much easier on a concertina.

How can I get hold of a copy please ? Cheque to you at the address above - but for how much ???

Excellent idea, thank you.

H


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:00 AM

My tutor is available from the Button Box.As well as the song accompaniment tutor I have an English Concertina Tutor, price of each tutor 20 euros plus postage.Cheque to me at the above adress is fine.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:05 AM

G'day Cap'n Dick,

I notice that Danny Spooner has worked his way round what I used to think was virtually impossible to non-schizophrenic persons: playing an effective accompaniment on the English system concertina whilst also singing ... and playing melody.

Danny seems to have started out finding the chords to accompany what he was singing ... then picking out the odd melody notes from those chords ... then working out where and when he could nip off to other keys to add in more notes - while still chording and singing ... !

When I restore an English system concertina (when ... ?) I intend to start off on this path ... but how much is your tooter ... err ... tutor?

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:42 AM

Don't want to steal Dick's thunder or rob him of any possible revenue from the sale of his tutor, but Roger Watson produced a very nice, simple concertina book some years ago. It's called 'Handbook for English Concertina' and was published by Wise Publications (London, Sydney, New York)and was distributed by Music Sales Limited, 78 Newman St. London W1P 3LA. Don't know if it's still available, but perhaps a 'net' search for the distributor, or Roger Watson himself will bear fruit.

Regards

Andy


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 06:11 AM

I dont wish to comment on any other tutors, apart from to say that Roger Watsons tutor,has three songs, Ailistair andersons two songs, my two tutors cover twenty songs, sometimes there are two different accompaniments to a song.I think its fair to say that my tutors deal with song accompaniment in far greater depth.Price 20 euros plus postage.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 06:53 AM

Just a quick word - Any one who doesnt know Mr Miles , before he escaped to the sanity of County Cork Dick was a VERY regular performer round the UK Folk Club and Festival scene playing his concertina to accompany an interesting variety of songs ! Any chance of getting back over for a tour Dick ?


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 12:46 PM

Well shiver mr timbers Terry,Hopefully in southern england in november.Best Wishes Dick Miles.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:53 AM

TODesertDancer try practising scales as quietly as possible on the concertina,then practise singing scales loudly, then practice your accompanimentas quietly as you can, practice exercise for voice projection as well. hope this helpsDickMiles


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:41 AM

Anybody know of a similar beast for Anglo? I do accompaniment on a couple of songs but the audience are getting fed up with them:-)

Wouldn't mind knowing how Peter Bellamy did it for his Kipling stuff. I don't think I'll ever get that good but if I aim high I might get somewhere near.

Well, perhaps not...

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 11:49 AM

to Fliss I would say ,make a diagram of your concertina then start practising chords.dum ching dum ching,etc as you might on a guitar then find a song that has only two chords.dicey reilly,or biddy mulligan. practice your chords in root position to start with lets take d major d then fsharp a together etc then do it with the three chord trick. now you should be started. Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Fliss
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 05:47 PM

Great, thank e kindly Cap'n. Ive got a diagram of L & R chord patterns off the internet some years ago and not really done anything about it.

By the way my concertina mender looks like Captain Birdseye (off the TV ad!!) Wont say who he is but he lives up on the Welsh Coast.

Ive had my concertina since I was 9 and used to mend it myself. In fact my mender asked if I was from Liverpool as concertinas from there seem to have been mended with odd things. Mine was held together with corn plasters for the dampers, old pink elastoplast cut for the valves and safety pins shaped to make the springs.

Since its been overhauled in 2000 I havnt dared breathe on it. It was tuned to Bb to fit in with a brass band or Sally Army Band.
fxx


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 06:41 PM

All the above advice for accompanying on English seems to have worked for those I've observed. In Danny Spooner's case it took him quite a while. In the '70s he just did the sorts of chords he would have used on his guitar, with no fancy changes but he's been exposed to lots of melody players and gradually picked up confidence and competence. The players I've seen seem not to have noticed any problems of the instrument interfering with their ability to breathe, possibly because the bellows can be manipulated to accommodate one's own breathing. I can't say for sure because I'm yet to come to terms with the English keyboard.

Anglo is a different matter, however. Because I started playing on a 20 button instrument I was restricted to playing in its native keys and I never did like singing much in C. When I got a D/G Crabb I was still playing up and down the rows and found that the requirement for rapid ("random"?) changes of bellows direction to be a major hindrance when wanting to sing with it; its breathing was quite different from mine so I stuck to mostly dance music. However, perseverance pays off and now I'm quite happy singing with any number of songs. Perhaps the first song I 'caught' the ability to accompany myself on was "Two little girls in blue" and I suspect that it helped that it is a gentle waltz.

I can't support the advice for sticking to chords on an anglo but that's just because it didn't work for me as I'm mostly a melody player. If it works for you, grab the ability with both hands.

Cheers, Rowan.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 06:54 PM

Sorry Rowan,youve misunderstood what I meant, I advised this because fliss already plays guitar,and would have an understanding of chords. Playing chords can be useful so can playing melody and melody and chords and also single line harmony, some people, but not all find that working out a harmony line is easier if you have an understanding of chords.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Fliss
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:28 PM

Its definitely something Ive got to work on.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 12:24 AM

Thanks for the input, folks.

~ Becky


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 03:50 PM

TO dave the gnome, Peter generally played melody and added a few chords here and there, he also had a drone button which he operated with his thumb, he was also a great harmony singer,Young Tradition, so i guess he might sometimes play harmonies.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:51 PM

I wondered about that, Dick, I often see old music scores for 4 voices - Usual sort are Suprano/Alto/Tenor/Bass. If we pick suprano as the melody line, as it usualy is, I could experiment with the A/T/B harmonies. Have you ever tried it or know anyone that does?

The only songs I accompany myself on at the mo are 'the one that starts 'Buzzers blowin', Willie lad' (The little piecer?) and The harvest of the moon. I have figured out the chorus of Kenny Rogers 'The Gambler'. Quite fancy a country song on the squeezebox:-)

Just realised I should probably be asking this at one of the concertina sites rather than hijack your thread - Still, keeps it floating anyway:-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 06:30 PM

I suggest that in major keys you dont double the third note.in tonic solfa thats the me note of the chord. a chord is do me and soh ,ist 3rd 5th.try also to keep the bass do or so, as much as you can. when working out harmonies. with minor chords doubling the me note can be o k. your experimantation with A T B should be ok, I would keep away from concertina sites they are full of pedants and assholes.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 07:05 PM

I'm learning anglo. One of the reasons for getting it was to accompany myself - it's quite hard to sing while blowing down a piece of pipe, I find

As a melody player I found playing chords did not really work for me, but I can double the melody reasonably well. Also I tend to play across the rows most of the time, so sometimes finding the right chord can be problematic.

This afternoon I was working on a couple of songs, "Turn, Turn, Turn" and "Tramps and Hawkers" by playing the melody and putting in chords (mostly just two note chords) at the end of phrases. That seemed to work quite well.

Listening to CDs, there seems to be a wide varieties of styles of accompaniment in various combinations of chord and melody.

I like the idea of a single line harmony part. Something to experiment with sometime, though I would need to be really familiar with the song first so I can concentrate on an unfamiliar accompaniment.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 07:31 PM

Dave the gnome wrote; "I have figured out the chorus of Kenny Rogers 'The Gambler'. Quite fancy a country song on the squeezebox:-) "

Some people can be a bit precious about what should or shouldn't be played/sung/accompanied/etc. My own practice is to have a go at anything that strikes my fancy and if it works, goodoh! Being an anglo player with more competence at melodies than harmonies I might be out of place on this thread but I've been playing (and singing some of the words of) Slim Dusty's "The rain tumbled down in July" for some years now. For those of you north of the equator, Slim Dusty has been Australia's best known Country music singer for a couple of generations and that song is reputed to be the first he ever wrote and performed publicly.

Your reference to "The gambler" is apposite for me. A few months ago I was teaching some students how to use surveying levels and to book the readings using the 'rise and fall' method. A student from a few years before had written a blues song about this week-long school and the current students decided to write their own. It turned out to be a parody on "The Gambler", with the chorus;
"You got to know when to backsight
Know when to foresight
Know how to book them
When the staff is straight.
You'd better centre your bubble
Or later there'll be trouble
You never read your level
'Til the level's plumb."
And It'll give me great pleasure to be putting in an accompaniment on the concer for them.

Captain Birdseye wrote;
"Peter generally played melody and added a few chords here and there, he also had a drone button which he operated with his thumb, he was also a great harmony singer,Young Tradition, so i guess he might sometimes play harmonies."

If this is about Peter Bellamy it is certainly a good description of how he played; as mentioned above, he played an Anglo concertina which had a three-row keyboard and was thus chromatic. Unlike the English keybord, such Anglo concertinas usually had a button for the left thumb and often it was pitched (in both bellows directions) at the tonic for the lower of its home rows, allowing it to be used as a drone. On an English, any button can be so used once you've trained your fingers.

Dick also wrote;
"I would keep away from concertina sites they are full of pedants and assholes."
You may have much more experience of them than I, Dick. I contribute to only one and, without exception, all the contributions to it that I've seen have been polite, constructive, informed and helpful. Some may regard my previous paragraph as a perfect example of the sort of pedantry to be expected on a concertina site but it's offered in a spirit of helpfulness.

Cheers, Rowan (who's currently on leave, at last)


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Anglo
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 08:15 PM

Peter Bellamy was certainly used to hearing harmonies, though I'm not sure he ever sang anything but lead with the YT.

I've been remarkably impressed recently with the way Brian Peters can accompany himself in F on a C/G anglo.

When I heard Bertram Levy, he seemed to be able to play in any key on his C/G - of course, his chordal work was fuller on the more direct keys, but he seemed to manage to keep the whole chromatic keyboard in his head, and use all of it. (These days I hear he's moved on to bandoneon - my brain is too small to handle all that!).

I get away with finding the right key for straightforward anglo accompaniments by generally carrying three - I used a G/D and a Bb/F for a long time, and finally added a C/G. So in that sense I would agree with the Captain that English can be more flexible. I started that way, but I'm now much more at home on the anglo, which I started playing when I got into morris.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Artful Codger
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 10:37 PM

Regarding SATB: Such scoring tends to have a vertical (harmonic) emphasis, rather than ensuring that each line is really melodic and interesting. There is also no indication which line has the most harmonically suggestive bit at any particular time, as it varies moment to moment.

A good two-part harmony differs substantially from what you find in a four-part harmony. The harmonist must shift about flexibly, and intuitively weigh a number of sometimes conflicting factors. When do you need a close sound (like parallel thirds), an open one (like fifths or sixths), unison, drone or part crossing? When do you need to break a pattern? When is it important to stress the third of a chord, to distinguish major and minor? When do you instead need the seventh, sixth or even ninth/second? When do you need to arpeggiate in some fashion, to provide a fuller harmonic context? When do you need to provide a rhythmic or contrapuntal contrast, or an echo? When do you just need to shut up? A good harmony line, viewed in isolation, is often more wild and interesting than the melody line.

The concertinist is more fortunate than a harmonizing singer, because obviously he doesn't have to limit himself to a single harmonizing note. But if you want to learn the essence of good melodic accompaniment, listen to great duos singing unaccompanied. I recommend the Silly Sisters (Maddy Prior and June Tabor), and John Roberts and Tony Barrand.

Hope I didn't get too "pedantic". ;-}


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 04:10 AM

To Dave:
I think there was a Roger Watson tutor for the Anglo years ago, to go with the books on English and melodeon. Also John Kirkpatrick tells me he's working on an Anglo tutorial video for Mrs. Casey Music.

Personally I play mostly chords to accompany songs on Anglo. Too much melody adds nothing and can get in the way of the words. Harmonies can be pretty, though. F is a good key for me to sing in, and sits quite nicely on a C/G; Andy Turner uses is a lot as well. In fact, I used to accompany "The Little Piecer" in the key of F, now I come to think of it - I played the melody as an intro, but the rest of the accompaniment was just simple, sustained chords: less is more with a song like that.

I don't agree with Dick; a visit to www.concertina.net and use of their search engine will tell you all kinds of things about song accompaniments, Peter Bellamy, and anything else you might want to know. Sure you get the occasional pedant and trouble maker, but there are one or two of them on any forum, not excluding Mudcat.

I do agree with Dick about leaving out the thirds in chords.

Peter Bellamy used drones a lot, and had little clamps fitted so his thumb didn't get tired. Along with the drones he would play bits of melody and bits of chords, which would often set off interesting dissonances against the drones and create an eerie feel (e.g. "My Boy Jack").


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 04:36 AM

Wow! Thanks all - some great stuff and I can see I have lots of work to do:-) Back to you, Dick - Sell some more!

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 06:26 AM

Yes Brian is quite right about useful information, to be got from C net. I guess ive just run into two or three of the minority, Who like to pontificate and split hairs .Forewarned is forearmed. what I find about the English Concertinaas against say the Duet, Where its relatively easy to play melody and full chordal accompaniment,is that it forces you to be imaginative with your accompaniments, of course I do use melody and accompaniment, But am using chords, harmony lines etc more and more.experimenting with different inversions creating two note suspensions and then resolving them,with this style you can make mistakes and it can lead you to discovering something interesting chordally.when you play straight melody its obvious when you make a mistake and nothing is gained.In my tutor,I have given examples of different ways to treat a particular song.Most of the songs are in relatively easy keys Amajor. G maj. Dmaj F maj B flat maj. Cmaj. if they dont suit your vioce you can always transpose them.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: GUEST,helen
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 05:28 PM

Can you say what the postage would be to England, or if you could say how much the tutor weighs I can looks the postal rates ??

Much thanks,

Helen


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 07:49 PM

The postage to england would be 1 euro 50 cents.thats about one of your lovely pounds.Much Binding in the marsh Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: pavane
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 06:29 AM

In a related topic - for the ANGLO concertina, my program HARMONY can produce tablature from various inputs, including abc. This may be of help in accompaniment.

It can show you, by various means

1. Which notes CANNOT be played - often happens!
2. Which notes can be played in either bellows direction
3. Runs playable without changing the bellows direction, across rows
4. Chords

To find a chord, all you have to do is make up a short abc file containing the chord notes in each octave, IN SEQUENCE, such as 'ACEace' for Am chord, or even A,C,E, A C E a c e a' c' e'

It will then show which buttons can be used for that chord, on the tablature.

http://www.greenhedges.com


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:12 AM

This sounds useful, but is only part of the story. My tutors also explain chord substitution and suggest suitable chord inversions and much more .


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 04:09 AM

Yrancslad made avery good point about choosing songs that you have already been singing.1.It means you can concentrate more on the concertina because the words are well ingrained 2 It means your more likely to be accompanying with the concertina, rather than the other way about, hope this is clear.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Artful Codger
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 07:11 AM

Good points about starting with songs you already know well. But I have a different perspective:

The songs you already know are not necessarily the best choices for concertina accompaniment. Either they are songs that sound perfectly complete unaccompanied, or they're songs that probably better suit the other instruments you already play them on. Obviously, there are exceptions - songs that translate well, and may even be improved with the box. But it doesn't take long to learn to sing a new song comfortably - just one verse is all you need to start.

There's also the matter of motivation: One of the most tedious, unsatisfying things about learning a new instrument is having to rehash old chestnuts with simplistic accompaniments. The songs I first learned on the box were ones I didn't know. They sounded so right with concertina, I was eager to learn them, and I was undaunted by their initial difficulty. By emulating the best, I also quickly picked up on what works and what doesn't.

I'm sure Dick's tutor provides an excellent progressive grounding, using both familiar and lesser-known material. After mastering that, it probably doesn't matter whether you revisit old friends or tackle new songs, though I find the latter more motivating - and suitable.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Tootler
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 06:59 PM

This is an interesting thread and has given me quite a bit to think about and has also encouraged me to try some things out.

I'm not sure that I entirely agree with the Artful Codger when he says The songs you already know are not necessarily the best choices for concertina accompaniment. Either they are songs that sound perfectly complete unaccompanied, or they're songs that probably better suit the other instruments you already play them on.

Just because you know and perform a song in a particular way does not mean it cannot be interpreted just as effectively in some other way. I would have thought that the number of songs that can be reinterpreted effectively using a different accompaniment far exceeds those that can not.

I have used my recorders to play introductions and also to play the tune through between two of the verses. This provides some variety in a song and works well with short songs. I must try this with my anglo as it should get round some of the "Patting your head while rubbing your tummy" problem. Also playing short linking passages between the verses might also work, especially for an essentially melody player like I am.

Something to work on over the next few days - providing I can avoid the "Dad you're out of tune, you can't sing" chant from certain quarters :-)


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Artful Codger
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 02:42 AM

Just tell them, "I'm playing concertina--of COURSE I'm out of tune!"


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 04:44 AM

LOL


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 05:52 AM

Another useful tip is to get old l p s, and slow them down to 16 rpm .the following people are recommended Lou Killen, SteveTurner, Dick Miles, Alf Edwards,Lea Nicholson, Peggy Seeger,Tony Rose, JohnKirk patrick Brian Peters.Tim Laycock Ralph Jordan, Jim Younger.
   Sorry If I have forgotten anyone,I have three cds available One,Boxing Clever has John K, AND Tim laycock, and Harry Scurfield.
Yours Faithfully Dick Miles.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:55 AM

Windows media player will allow you to slow down audio files without changing pitch. I have found it very useful when learning tunes.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:39 PM

Thankyou for that information.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 12:51 PM

Keith Kendrick plays both Anglo and English,and is a good player.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:29 PM

an Anglo concertina which had a three-row keyboard and was thus chromatic

For melody, sure - but even on a three-row Anglo I bet there are plenty of chords that you can't get at all, and chord sequences that you can't realistically play (e.g. eight bars with four successive 'push' chords).

Thanks for reviving this thread, Dick - I'll look out for your book, once I've got a box to learn on.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 07:33 AM

the book is only available from me or the Button Box.http://www.dickmiles.com
Roy Clinging is another singer who uses the English to accompany himself,I think he lives in the Cheshire area.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:28 AM

Damien Barber,is another who is not too far from you, what larks pip old chap.Yorkshire I believe.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 08:44 AM

Sorry if someone's said this (I haven't read all posts) but, if I ever do by an English concertina, I'd use Alistair Anderson's tutorial, also (not that I agree with him on everything, either).


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 09:59 AM

wht would be your reason for that?
it is a perfectly good tutorial,but it devotes more time to playing tunes than to song accompaniment.
I know you are against harmony when accompanying songs,but Alistairs Tutor suggests using harmony as well.
his tutor has two songs,my tutor has 10 songs
between MY two tutors,there are 17 SONGS,both have single melody lines which I believe you like[WAV],and also suggest other alternatives[which you are free to ignore].
the potential purchaser is free to use the books as song books,and use single melody if they wish.
plus many of the songs can be heard on youtube for nothing.
I believe Alistairs tutor is out of print,although photocopies can be purchased from the Button Box.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: Tootler
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 08:31 PM

an Anglo concertina which had a three-row keyboard and was thus chromatic

For melody, sure - but even on a three-row Anglo I bet there are plenty of chords that you can't get at all, and chord sequences that you can't realistically play (e.g. eight bars with four successive 'push' chords)


There are plenty of chords you can get on a 30 button Anglo. I think it is more useful to focus on what you can do rather than what you can't. As to your example, there's an air button which allows you to "take a breath"

The Anglo Concertina is a remarkably versatile instrument. I suggest you try and get hold of a copy of the 3 CD set "Anglo International" There is an amazing variety of styles of Anglo Playing.

Of course I'm biased; I attempt to play one and to accompany myself singing with one from time to time.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:40 AM

Tootler,I agree,the Anglo is versatile,to get all the chords it is better if it is tuned in Equal Temperament.
there is also the concertina compilation Boxing Clever,which features anglo concertina virtuosos Harry Scurfield and John Kirkpatrick,this is available from myself or the Button Box.
.the recording quality[imo]is better than on some of the tracks on anglo international[eg Fred Kilroy]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrwfuveekG0,
this is one of the songs in my tutor,this can be downloaded for free,as can some of the other songs in the tutor,I think it helps to be able to hear the songs.


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Subject: RE: concertina tutor for song accompaniment
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:48 AM

To GSS - please note: I said "also", meaning I'd get BOTH yours and his if I ever were to invest in an English concertina. I think A.A. has just re-released his on CD, and put the notes on the web. Otherwise, I agree with what you just said - and, yes, I think when one is used to double the melody, it can sound great.


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