Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Pro Slavery Songs

whozit 12 Jul 06 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 12 Jul 06 - 02:37 PM
CeltArctic 13 Jul 06 - 02:01 AM
John O'L 13 Jul 06 - 03:08 AM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 03:44 AM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 04:19 AM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 05:02 AM
whozit 13 Jul 06 - 01:40 PM
wysiwyg 13 Jul 06 - 01:47 PM
Uncle_DaveO 13 Jul 06 - 05:06 PM
M.Ted 13 Jul 06 - 06:49 PM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 08:23 PM
chico 13 Jul 06 - 08:43 PM
chico 13 Jul 06 - 08:44 PM
chico 13 Jul 06 - 08:51 PM
chico 13 Jul 06 - 08:51 PM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 08:53 PM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 09:19 PM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 10:08 PM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 10:59 PM
Goose Gander 13 Jul 06 - 11:08 PM
GUEST,Joe_F 13 Jul 06 - 11:37 PM
SharonA 13 Jul 06 - 11:46 PM
Goose Gander 14 Jul 06 - 12:04 AM
SharonA 14 Jul 06 - 12:50 AM
SharonA 14 Jul 06 - 01:44 AM
SharonA 14 Jul 06 - 03:11 AM
Joe Offer 15 Jul 06 - 01:03 PM
SharonA 16 Jul 06 - 12:26 PM
Roberto 16 Jul 06 - 01:30 PM
SharonA 16 Jul 06 - 01:43 PM
GUEST,Pete Peterson 16 Jul 06 - 05:29 PM
whozit 16 Jul 06 - 07:16 PM
dick greenhaus 16 Jul 06 - 09:45 PM
SharonA 17 Jul 06 - 12:59 AM
GUEST,Pete Peterson 17 Jul 06 - 09:55 AM
SharonA 17 Jul 06 - 10:54 AM
Goose Gander 17 Jul 06 - 11:19 AM
SharonA 17 Jul 06 - 11:36 AM
dick greenhaus 17 Jul 06 - 12:42 PM
robinia 18 Jul 06 - 12:03 AM
Goose Gander 18 Jul 06 - 01:32 AM
dick greenhaus 18 Jul 06 - 12:25 PM
Goose Gander 18 Jul 06 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Lauren P 19 Nov 10 - 07:13 PM
GUEST,Lauren P 19 Nov 10 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 19 Nov 10 - 09:33 PM
doc.tom 20 Nov 10 - 07:58 AM
MGM·Lion 21 Nov 10 - 01:42 AM
GUEST 21 Nov 10 - 08:59 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:



Subject: Pro Slavery Songs
From: whozit
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 01:55 PM

I see we have an Anti-Slavery Songs Thread.

What about pro-Slavery?

Did the opposition have any songs?

I think that the slavers should have had more time to write than the people who had to work for a living.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 02:37 PM

I have found a few, from song booklets published in early 19th century Edinburgh. By that time, the slave trade was in terminal decline and its advocates were pretty desperate. If I could have found *any* redeeming feature of those songs I'd have included them on my CD-ROM of the music of Edinburgh (as I did with several Tory songs), but they were just raving racism with no trace of wit or imagination.

    You'll find more information about Jack's CD-ROM here (click).
    -Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: CeltArctic
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 02:01 AM

Although it definitely isn't 'pro' slavery, the ballad Flying Cloud does deal with the slave trade from the perspective of a slave ship transporting Africans.

Moira


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 03:08 AM

It seems to me that for some reason oppressors are rarely as musical as those they oppress.
Perhaps they are muscial, in a different way. Perhaps being an oppressor doesn't lend itself to song as readily as being an oppressee.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 03:44 AM

Written records of such songs are more difficult to find than records of anti-slavery songs, but certainly there were pro-slavery songs written during the antebellum era of US history. Just as abolitionists had their rallying cries set to music, their opponents did the same. Excerpts from two of these songs can be found on this catalog of "African-Americana" and I quote from the source:

[Anti-Abolitionist Broadside Song Sheet] John Brown. NY: H. De Marsan, n.d. [probably 1859 or 1860]. Approx. 16.5cm. x 26cm. Two anti-abolitionist songs (words only) about John Brown surrounded by a crude block-print frame of music makers and dancers. The first song (John Brown) by P. H. Matthews, ends:

"So, all you, old men, who wish to set the niggers free,
Just think of John Brown and the gallows tree;
And oh ye, abolitionists, before it is too late,
Think of John Brown and of his sad fate."

The second song (The Fate of Old John Brown) ends:

"If the Niggers had been free, John,
What would they get to do?
They know when they are well off,
And now they laugh at you."



There are plenty of songs about happy slaves, most notably the ones penned by Stephen Foster, that are generally perceived as being propagandist (though scholars argue as to Foster's true opinion of slavery). The debate rages on as to whether his intent was to portray African slaves in America with dignity and affection, or to advance the idea that they were content with their situation (or both?).

Foster, who hated the tactics of Republican abolitionists and backed James Buchanan in the 1856 election, wrote a song satirizing Republicans' use of non-voters (i.e. everyone except privileged white males) to beef up the numbers at their rallies. (info from this page) The song is...

The Abolition Show (or, "The Great Baby Show")
^^
On the seventeenth day of September you know,
Took place in our city the great baby show;
They shut up the factories and let out the schools,
For the Seventeenth day was the day of all fools.

chorus:
Sing tu ral lala lu ral lal lu rall lal lay,
Sing tu ral lala lu ral lal lu rall lal lay,
Sing tu ral lala lu ral lal lu rall lal lay,
Sing tu ral lala lu ral lal lu rall lal lay,

They made a procession of wagons and boats,
Of raccoons and oxen (they all have their votes)
Sledge hammers, triangles and carpenter's tools,
One thousand and eight hundred horses and mules.

They had gemmen ob color join in their games
And jokers and clowns of all ages and names
They had pop guns and tin pans and all kinds of toys
And a very fine party of women and boys.

They had young men on horse back, so nice and so gay
Aged Seventeen years on this Seventeenth day,
And the ladies all thought they were bold cavaliers
These bright looking lads aged seventeen years.

They had grim border-ruffians, I'll bring to your mind,
And they've plenty more left of the very same kind,
They drank from a flask and played cards on the way,
And the children looked on, on this Seventeenth day.

They had Ohio Yankees of Western Reserve
Who live upon cheese, ginger cakes and preserve,
Abolition's their doctrine their rod and their staff,
And they'll fight for a sixpence an hour and a half.

Now was it not kind in these good simple clowns
To amuse all the children in both of our towns
To shut up their work shops and spend so much money
To black up their faces, get tight and be funny.

They called it a council of freemen you know
But I told you before 'twas a great baby show,
For when they had met they had nothing to say
But "Poor Bleeding Kansas" and "Ten Cents A Day".

Then their ship Constitution was hauled through the street
With sixteen small guns she was armed compleat
But the brave ship of State by which Democrats stand
Carries thirty-one guns with old Buck in command.

In the year '45 when the fire laid us waste
Old Buck gave us five hundred dollars in haste
They then took his money and lauded his name
But he's now "Ten cent Jimmy", their banners proclaim.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 04:19 AM

I guess I should have filled in the n-words with asterisks in my post, even though they were in a quote I copied-and-pasted. I'm sorry if I caused offense by not doing so. Unfortunately, the anti-abolitionists of that time felt no compunction to be respectful toward African slaves, and even well-meaning abolitionists used terms that are now recognized as being derogatory toward African-Americans.

Just in case it's not clear, I abhor the idea of slavery and, had I been alive in the pre-Civil War era, I would have been an abolitionist myself. I grew up within sight of an old stone house with a secret room that had been used to hide fugitive slaves on the Underground Railroad (which was quite active in the southeastern Pennsylvania region), so I had a constant reminder of their struggle. But I posted the requested pro-slavery music here because it bothered me that whozit and John O'L seemed unaware of the proliferation of it during that time.

As I said, it's not so easy to find surviving evidence of it (as Jack Campin says, it has no intrinsic redeeming value!) since the abolitionists ultimately won the fight and had every reason to want to eradicate the remnants of pro-slavery sentiment. But let's face it: during that era, songs were a vital means of communication. Seems to me that the existence of so many abolitionist songs is itself clear evidence that the abolitionists were in a musical "shouting match" with anti-abolitionists who had their own songs behind which they rallied.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 05:02 AM

Let's not forget about the influence of minstrel songs in the anti-abolitionist movement, as a means of demeaning African-Americans and reinforcing negative stereotypes of them. Here's one small example, an excerpt from this page about the anti-abolitionist riots of 1834 in New York City, a.k.a. the Farren Riots (relevant passage accented by me in boldface type):

"...The reported impetus was an anti-American remark made by George P. Farren, the English-born stage manager of the Bowery Theatre and an abolitionist.... The mob targeted...buildings associated with the abolitionists and African Americans.... [F]our thousand rioters stormed the Bowery Theatre, where a production... was in progress as part of a benefit for Farren. ...[T]he rioters demanded Farren's apology and called for the deportation of blacks from the United States. The riot was apparently quelled when Farren had the American flag displayed, and blackface performer George Washington Dixon performed 'Yankee Doodle' and the blackface minstrel song 'Zip Coon', which makes fun of a Northern black dandy. The mayor then addressed the crowd, followed by Dixon. The crowd then dispersed."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: whozit
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 01:40 PM

SharonA - That's some exellent posting.

I was surprised that anything still can be found.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 01:47 PM

Sharon,

Although I once used asterisks in a thread title, I didn't use it to avoid using the historical term "nigger;" I used it to combine a number of song variants that each had a different word in the middle of the title, "Run, *****, Run" and to make a single entry of multiple songs possible in an index of spirituals without putting offence right in the face unnecessarily. And I don't think we have anything like a consensus here about asterisking uncomfortable words.

Although there are some members whose workplace firewalls won't let them into sites where things like "f*ck" are spelled out.

Certainly in posting a song lyric, I think the word has to be the word. I'm all for being sensitive when possible, but a word like "nigger" is going to come up in a thread with this kind of title. It doesn't mean we support the historical wrong that was done. It just means we're talking about it.

YMMV

~Susan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 05:06 PM

I should expect that many songs from that segment of society wouldn't have been cast (on their face) as slavery songs, so much as what I'll call "We won't let them take our rights away!" songs. The addition of those songs, along with State's-rights songs, to the pro-slavery songss as such, would make the total much greater.

And I'd expect that songs which were on their face "rights" songs might   include a higher percentage of creditable songs than the pro-slavery songs as such, even though the underlying intention might be seen as the same.

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD: Maryland, My Maryland (James Ryder Randall)
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 06:49 PM

The crown jewel of the "We won't let them take our rights away!" songs, as mentioned by DaveO, is my adopted state's notorious song.

The language is stilled to the point of being obscure--no one talked like that, even then-- but the anger that runs through the song is real and honest--one of the author's friends was killed in the Baltimore Riots--

The "despot" "tyrant", and "vandal" are all Abraham Lincoln--"Yankee scum" is self-explanatory. Less so is the line ""Sic semper!", 'Tis the proud refrain, That baffles minions back amain"--not exactly a rallying cry--

Maryland is so PC that even the Republicans are liberal, and the fact that this is our official state song is a bit of a problem for some---Curiously, in addition to fostering the most compelling tribute to the lost cause of the South, Maryland also was home to Josiah Henson, the model for Harriet Beecher Stowe's "Uncle Tom"--whose literate and compassionate autobiography is perhaps the most penetrating indictment of that systemThe Autobiography of Josiah Henson

^^^
MARYLAND, MY MARYLAND
by James Ryder Randall
(1839-1908)

The despot's heel is on thy shore,
Maryland, my Maryland!
His torch is at thy temple door,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Avenge the patriotic gore
That flecked the streets of Baltimore,
And be the battle queen of yore,
Maryland, my Maryland!

Hark to an exiled son's appeal,
Maryland, my Maryland!
My mother state, to thee I kneel,
Maryland, my Maryland!
For life or death, for woe or weal,
Thy peerless chivalry reveal,
And gird they beauteous limbs with steel,
Maryland, my Maryland!

Thou wilt not cower in the dust,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Thy beaming sword shall never rust,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Remember Caroll's sacred trust.
Remember Howard's warlike thrust,
And all thy slumberers with the just,
Maryland, my Maryland.

Come! 'Tis the red dawn of the day,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Come with thy panoplied array,
Maryland, my Maryland!
With Ringgold's spirit for the fray,
With Watson's blood at Monterey,
With fearless Lowe and dashing May,
Maryland, my Maryland!

Dear Mother, burst the tyrant's chain,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Virginia should not call in vain,
Maryland, my Maryland!
She meets her sisters on the plain,
"Sic semper!" 'Tis the proud refrain
That baffles minions back amain,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Arise in majesty again,
Maryland, my Maryland!

Come! For thy shield is brighter and strong,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Come! For thy dalliance does thee wrong,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Come to thine own heroic throng,
Stalking with Liberty along,
And chant thy dauntless slogan-song,
Maryland, my Maryland!

I see the blush upon thy cheek,
Maryland, my Maryland!
But thou wast ever bravely meek,
Maryland, my Maryland!
But lo! There surges forth a shriek,
From hill to hill, from creek to creek,
Potomac calls to Chesapeake,
Maryland, my Maryland!

Thou wilt not yield the vandal toll,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Thou wilt not crook to his control,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Better the fire upon the roll,
Better the shot, the blade, the bowl,
Than crucifixion of the soul,
Maryland, my Maryland.

I hear the distant thunder-hum,
Maryland, my Maryland!
The "old line's" bugle, fife and drum,
Maryland, my Maryland!
She is not dead, nor deaf, nor dumb;
Huzza! She spurns the Northern scum --
She breathes! She burns! She'll come! She'll come!
Maryland, my Maryland!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:23 PM

MTed: "Sic semper" was indeed a rallying cry! Sic semper tyrannis ("Thus [shall it] ever be to tyrants") is the state motto of Virginia... hence the line in the song about Virginia not calling out that particular refrain in vain, when she meets her sister states on the "plain" (of battle), as they "baffle" (impede the movement of, thwart, ruin) the "minions" (servile dependents of a powerful force [abolitionist sympathizers, presumably, since this was written in 1861] ) back "amain" (forcefully or violently).

All that's missing is the rain in Spain...

But seriously, "Sic semper tyrannis" was supposedly what Brutus said when he and his co-conspirators assassinated Julius Caesar. Guess who was inspired by this story of tyrannicide? John Wilkes Booth! Here's an excerpt from Booth's last diary entry (April 26, 1865):

"with every man's hand against me, I am here in despair. And why? For doing what Brutus was honored for. What made [William] Tell a hero? And yet I, for striking down a greater tyrant than they ever knew, am looked upon as a common cutthroat. My action was purer than either of theirs. One hoped to be great himself. The other had not only his country's but his own, wrongs to avenge. I hoped for no gain. I knew no private wrong. I struck for my country and that alone."

As Uncle Dave O says, the propaganda that equated states' rights with the perceived "right" to enslave other human beings (who were portrayed in song and in other ways as being of an "inferior" race), and that equated abolitionists with tyrants, certainly pervaded antebellum and Civil War-era Southern society. This propaganda was certainly evidenced through popular songs of the era that decried "tyranny".

How curious that the Confederate song "We Conquer or Die" contains a description of "the stern bigot Northman".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD: Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe
From: chico
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:43 PM

Here is a minstrel song, a witty but harsh satire against Uncle Tom's Cabin. This is as close as you will get to a defence.

^^


   A                      E7          A
I went to New York city a month or two ago,
   A               7          E7                  
A hunting for dat lady, Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe;
I see'd de Abolitions dey said she'd gone away,
Dey told me in de city it was no use to stay.

She take away de dollars, and put 'em in her pocket,
She laid her hand upon it, and dar she safely lock it,
Dey said if Massa come for me, den dey would quickly meet,
       7             D7      E       7      A
Dey'd make a lion of me, and gib me 'nuf to eat.

A D   A         D       E7    A
Oh! Oh! Oh! Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe!
      7                   D7         E         7    A
How could you leave de Country and starve poor nigga so.

Dey treated dis here child, as doe I was a Turk,
Den tole me for to leave dem and go away to work;
I could'nt get no work, I could'nt get no dinner,
And den I wish dis Fugitive was back to ole Virginny.

Oh! when I was a picanin, Ole Uncle Tom would say:
'Be true unto your Massa [boy], and neber run away',
He tole me dis at home, he tole me dis at partin,
'Ned, don't you trust de white folks, For dey am quite unsartin!'

Ole Massa's very kind ole Missus gentle too,
And much I love my Dinah in old Virginny true,
Now I'll go back and stay dar, and neber more will roam
Lor bress de Southern Ladies, and my old southern home!

But don't come back Aunt Harriet in England make a fuss,
Go talk against your Country, put money in your puss
And when us happy niggers you pity in your prayer,
Oh! dont forget de WHITE SLAVES dat starvin ober dare!

Now de rules of dis here house don't 'mit of no encore,
So afore we go just listen, I'll sing you one verse more;
Aunt Harriet Beecha Stowe She tried to see de Queen,
But Victoria was too smart for her and could not be seen.

She den went ober to France, and tried to come it dere,
But de Empress and de Emperor, know'd 'zatly what dey were,
So de best way to fix it and hab it understood,
Is dat she left her Country for her own country's good.

Go! Go! Go! Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe!
I'se glad you left de Country and don't come back no more.


I went to New York city a month or two ago,
A hunting for dat lady, Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe;
I see'd de Abolitions dey said she'd gone away,
Dey told me in de city it was no use to stay.

She take away de dollars, and put 'em in her pocket,
She laid her hand upon it, and dar she safely lock it,
Dey said if Massa come for me, den dey would quickly meet,
Dey'd make a lion of me, and gib me 'nuf to eat.

Oh! Oh! Oh! Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe!
How could you leave de Country and sarve poor nigga so.

Dey treated dis here child, as doe I was a Turk,
Den tole me for to leave dem and go away to work;
I could 'nt get no work, I could 'nt get no dinner,
And den I wish dis Fugitive was back to ole Virginny.

Oh! when I was a picanin, Ole Uncle Tom would say,
Be true unto your Massa, and neber run away,
He tole me dis at home, he tole me dis at partin,
Ned, don't you trust de white folks, For dey am quite unsartin.

Oh! Oh! Oh! Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe!
How could you leave de Country and sarve poor nigga so.

Ole Massa's very kind ole Missus gentle too,
And much I love my Dinah in old Virginny true,
Now I'll go back and stay dar, and neber more will roam
Lor bress de Southern Ladies, and my old southern home!

But don't come back Aunt Harriet in England make a fuss,
Go talk against your Country, put money in your puss
And when us happy niggers you pity in your prayer,
Oh! dont forget de WHITE SLAVES dat starvin ober dare!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe!
How could you leave de Country and sarve poor nigga so.

Now de rules of dis here house don't 'mit of no encore,
So afore we go just listen, I'll sing you one verse more;
Aunt Harriet Beecha Stowe She tried to see de Queen,
But Victoria was too smart for her and could not be seen.

She den went ober to France, and tried to come it dere,
But de Empress and de Emperor, know'd 'zatly what dey were,
So de best way to fix it and hab it understood,
Is dat she left her Country for her own country's good.

Go! Go! Go! Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe!
I'se glad you left de Country and don't come back no more.
Aunt Harriet Becha Stowe

Written Expressly for
Kunkel's Nightingale Opera Troup
By Charles Soran
Music by John Hill Hewitt
Baltimore: Henry M. McCaffrey, 1853.
[Dedicated "To the readers of Uncle Tom's Cabin."]
[Three other editions of the sheet music for this song (all ©1853)
have been identified. It was published twice more in Baltimore,
by McCaffrey again (with a dedication to
"the estimable wife of
Ex President Tyler, and the other patriotic and Union loving ladies
of Virginia, who so justly rebuked Lady Sutherland and the Ladies
of England for their uncalled for meddling in the affairs of the people
of the United States," and by J. E. Boswell, with the caption
"As Sung by Mr. J. K. Search of Kunkel's Nightingale Opera
Troupe." It was also published by John Marsh, Philadelphia,
with a dedication to
"Mrs. Julia Gardiner Tyler."]


ARTISTS:
  Japher's "Original" SANDY RIVER MINSTRELS

BONES AND VOCALS: Jack Nuckols; BANJO AND VOCALS:
Mark Meadows; TAMBOURINE AND VOCALS: Stephanie Meadows.

RECORDED at Landmark Recording Studio
1082 Rosslyn Road
Chesapeake, Ohio (740 867-5594)
Steve Hoffman, Production Engineer

© Copyright 1998
by Japher's "Original" SANDY RIVER MINSTRELS,
All rights reserved.


Audio encoding by Nathan Piazza
at the Digital Media Center,
Clemons Library, Univ. of Virginia

Source: http://utc.iath.virginia.edu/songs/aunthbsfr.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: chico
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:44 PM

music at http://www.iath.virginia.edu/utc/songs/aunthbsfr.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD: John Brown's Entrance Into Hell
From: chico
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:51 PM

John Brown's entrance into hell. Balt., March 1863. C. T. A., Printer.

IMPRINT
Baltimore, Maryland: C. T. A., 1863

RELATED NAME(S)
Publisher: C. T. A.

SHELF LOCATION
American Song Sheets, Series 1, Volume 5

LYRICS
JOHN BROWN'S ENTRANCE INTO HELL.

Come gentle muse and touch a strain,
'Twill echo back the sound again--
On scenes that pass'd we now must dwell,
When old John Brown arrived in Hell.

When Pluto heard old Brown was hung
Old Tophet with Hosannas rung;
For well they knew the lying thief,
Would make for them an honored chief.

Brown to receive they now prepare,
All eager in the joy to share;
Old Satan from his throne came down
And left his seat for Old John Brown

Not long, indeed, for him they wait,
For soon he thunder'd at the gate.
"Come in," says Pluto, "Quickly come,
You're welcome to your fiery home."

Three cheers roll'd forth in accents brief
To hail the Abolition chief--
Old John chim'd in, and thank the Fates--
He'd safely passed the pearly gates.

While Arnold held him by the hand.
Old Satan took the Speaker's stand--
"Silence," cried he, "Now all sit down,
And hear me welcome brother Brown."

"You're welcome, John, to your reward,
You've cheated Riddle and the Lord--
Though pearly gates wide open flow,
They did not catch my servant true.

As oft you've murdered, lied and stole,
It did rejoice my burning soul;
You've run your length in earth's career,
And we are pleased to see you here.

You'll take your seat at my left hand,
Why I do this you'll understand;
not surprised, when I tell you,
Old Abraham is coming too.

on my right, that vacant chair,
since for him I did prepare--
soon I know that he will come--
rece is almost run.

John at my left, Abe at my right,
We'll give the heavenly hosts a fight;
A triune group we then shall be,
Yes, three in one and one in three.

Abe's Cabinet, 'tis very true,
Will soon knock here as loud as you--
In short, the negroizing clan,
Are traveling here unto a man.

I shall protest, most long and loud,
'Gainst taking in the motley crowd--
For well I know they'd me dethrone,
And swear that Tophet was their own.

Let Sumner, Stevens, and their host,
When they on earth give up the ghost--
Unto a lower hell appear;
We have no room for them up here.

The Clergy, too, I much do fear.
Attraction's law will draw them here--
Their earthly teachings--though I tell,
Are doctrines long since preached, In hell.

They, too, must find a lower home,
For hither sure they shall not come--
We are crewded now in every spot,
Save here and there a vacant lot.

These I've reserved through all our fights,;
For those who have pre-emption rights;
That corner lot's for Backbone Tod,
A renegade accursed of God.

The traitor here from his own place
Can view the scenes at Fortress Chase--
Laugh at the woes of his old friends,
Till his curs'd life in horror ends.

There's other traitors I could tell,
They are too mean to come to hell--
So let each go and hunt his hole,
For green backs here won't pay their toll.

And now, O! John, on earth oppress'd,
You are with us a welcome guest;
On earth you played our part full well,
So now with us forever dwell.

BALT., March, 1863...........C. T. A., Printer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: chico
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:51 PM

JOHN BROWN.
By P. H. Matthews.

Oh, there is great news come from Charlestown:
'Tis all about the hanging of old John Brown;
He tried all his best to set the niggers free,
And for it he had to hang upon the gallows' tree.

It happened at Harper's Ferry, as you already know,
He tried all his best, but he found it was no go;
He gave to the niggers spears, pistols and guns,
And in the struggle he lost his two sons.

So, all you, old men, who wish to set the niggers free,
Just think of John Brown and the gallows' tree;
And oh ye, abolitionists, before it is too late,
Think of John Brown and of his sad fate.



THE FATE OF OLD JOHN BROWN.
Air: John Anderson My Jo.

John Brown, unfortunate John Rrown,
You to a jail was sent,
For tampering with slaves, John
And with a bad intent:
You lately had your trial, John,
They found you guilty, very,
With learning Niggers how to shoot,
And take old Harper's Ferry.

John Brown, unfortunate John Brown,
You reached the foot at last;
Your time upon this earth, John,
Is closing round you fast;
If the Niggers had been free, John,
What would they get to do!
They know when they are well off,
And now they laugh at you.


Stamped: 186

H. DE MARSAN, Publisher.

64 Chatham Street, N. Y.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD: Our Hut on the Old Plantation
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:53 PM

OUR HUT ON THE OLD PLANTATION
(date unknown)

Far away down is the good old farm,
Where we darkies used to dwell,
Oh! how we've often longed to see
The place we loved so well;
There first we saw the morning sun,
As it lighted up the sky--
Oh! take us back to the sweet old spot,
For there we all wish to die.

Chorus.--Then darkies sing, as on we roam,
And tell throughout creation,
The happy times we had at home--
Our hut on the old plantation.

Father and mother old now and gray,
Still do hoe and shell the corn,
While we, their children, work far away
From the spot where were born;
From our old massa 'twas hard to part,
He always was so good and kind,
And could we search the world all o'er
His like we ne'er should find.
Then darkies sing, &c.

Oh! 'tis many years that we've been free,
But here no longer can we stay,
Our hearts they pine for our own little hut,
Down in the South, far away.
When will the happy time come round,
When we darkies may go home,
And from that blessed good old farm
We never more need roam.
Then darkies sing, &c.

page from the Library of Congress "American Memory" site


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD: Julius' Bride
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:19 PM

JULIUS' BRIDE.
(date unknown)
Sung Nightly with Tremendous Applause, by all the Minstrel Bands.

When I liv'd 'way down in ole Virginny,
I bought a colored gal for a guinea;
By de rollin' ob her eye, if you chance to pass her by,
It would cause your heart to palpitate, gib up de ghost--an' die!

CHORUS.

Den I warn all you darkies not to lub her,
If you do, she will cause you to blubber,
So git out ob de way, an' remember what I say--
I'se gwan to marry her myself some very fine day!

But now she's gwan for to leave me,
If she does, she will cruelly deceive me,
But to win her I will try, by de winkin' ob de eye,
If she don't consent to marry, I will go away an' cry.
But I know dat she will not deceibe me,
An' she is not a goin' for to leabe me,
So to hab a little fun, for de banjo I will run,
An' I'll play dat merry tune--"Jenny, get your hoe-cake done"

Den I warn all you darkies, &c.

One night when de moon was a beamin',
I lay fast asleep a dreamin'
Dat de sun was shinin' bright in de middle of the night,
An' de darkies had collected for to hab a little fight.
When I 'woke, O, de banjo was soundin',
De bones thro' de air was a boundin',
But how pleasant it did seem; I was married--in a dream--
In de floatin' scow, Virginia, on de Mississippi stream.

Den I warn all you darkies, &c.

quoted from this page of "American Memory" site


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD: The Democratic Rally
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 10:08 PM

[From the Democratic Presidential Campaign Songster.]

THE DEMOCRATIC RALLY
TUNE--"Wait for the Wagon."

Come all who love the Union,
And the Constitution too,
And join in strong communion
To put the contest through;
To beat the old rail-splitter
And to Springfield send him back,
No candidate is fitter
Than the gallant little Mac.

CHORUS--Here's to the Union,
Here's to the Union,
Here's to the Union,
And the Democratic cause.

For State rights we will rally,
And habeas corpus too,
For we hav manned our galley
With an independent crew,
That will not be subjected
To any tyrant's reign,
Who white men have neglected
To run a negro train.

CHORUS--Here's to the Union, &c.

We'll rally now and ever,
Our Union to uphold;
Nor in our madness sever
The interests manifold,
That bound our happy nation
In one harmonious whole,
Each State in its own station
Its interests to control.

CHORUS--Here's to the Union, &c.

We'll keep our fair flag flying
Amid the din of fight,
It hath a fame undying,
'Tis emblem of the right.
Justice and truth defending,
Democracy shall stand
With power and strength unending,
The glory of our land.

CHORUS--Here's to the Union, &c.

'The Democratic Rally' from American Memory site


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 10:59 PM

Note about my previous post: That song ("The Democratic Rally") referred to the 1864 election and to Democratic candidate George McClellan ("Mac" in the song).

Below is a song intended to be a chilling warning to the white man. I'll precede it with a warning of my own: the "n" word is rampant in this song. As Susan said above, if we consider it in the historical context of pro-slavery propaganda, it's useful to observe just how rampant and ugly the racial bigotry and hatred really was (today's tendency to edit for the sake of political correctness and sensitivity can make us forget this sometimes!). Read on with nerves steeled! Since the song is written in a fakey dialect, I presume that it was sung by a white minstrel in black-face, which only adds to the bizarre irony of this particular pro-slavery song...


DE NIGGER ON DE FENCE.

Air: All round my hat.

Now, listen to me, white folks, de truth I'm going to tell you;
Dat the white man isn't nowhere now, it's plain to men of sense;
For, it's nigger in de Senate-house, and nigger in de White-house,
And nigger in de Custom-house, and nigger on de fence.

Some time ago, when Congress met, dey spoke about de nation;
Dey made de acts, dey passed de bills, de laws dey did dispense;
And, speaking of THE PEOPLE, dey always meant de white folks:
But now in every speech dev make, de nigger's on de fence.

Dere's Vendell Philips, Sumner, Horace Greeley, Henry Beecher,
All worshipping de nigger: 'fellow feeling's deir pretences;
But dey never stop to think if dey can benefit de white man,
Dey preach and pray and talk about de nigger on de fence.

Now, just take up de TRIBUNE, and lots of oder papers,
And all the news you 'spect to read, you'll see how dey condense;
It's all about de slavery and abolition questions;
For, de idol dat dey worship is de nigger on de fence.

Dey try to prove de nigger am superior to de white man,
And, though dey find dat he is strong, it gives dem no offence;
For, if dey only had deir way, de Mokes should rule de nation.
And deir Candidate for President be: de nigger on de fence

Now, dere's but one way to end de war, and save dis glorious Union,
To spare de lives of thousands, and stop de great expense:
Stand by the Constitution: no more of abolition:
And darn de man dat meddles wid de nigger on de fence'.

"...On The Fence" from American Memory site


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: Goose Gander
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 11:08 PM

I was going to sit this one out, but there are a few things I'd like to say . . . . There seems to be a 'North good' / 'South bad' theme to this thread. There is an identification of the pro-slavery argument as wholly Southern, and an identification of the Union with abolitionism. A few problems with this . . . . It should be understood by now that most minstrel songwriters and performers were Northerners. The idea of a 'bright sunny South' was popular with Northern audiences, and the characterization of slaves as happy, easy-going and contented was part and parcel of this overarching theme. On a more intellectual level, the proslavery argument was not restricted to the South, nor were proslavery opinions even necessarily Southern in origin. See the book Proslavery by Larry Tise for more about this.

Regarding the Civil War, Lincoln was not an abolitionist in any sense of the word. I don't have the time to go over every unflattering comment made by Lincoln about blacks, but suffice it to say he gave Southern racists a run for their money in that department.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 11:37 PM

SharonA: According to some witnesses, Booth actually shouted "Sic semper tyrannis" when he jumped from the balcony after shooting Lincoln.

--- Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||: Science requires the suspension of belief. :||


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 11:46 PM

Hi, Michael:
I agree with everything you've said, except the part about there seeming to be a " 'North good'/'South bad' theme to this thread." I'm sorry if anything I posted contributed to that misconception. If you follow the links for the songs I've posted, you'll see that many of the lyric sheets from which I copied-and-pasted were published in New York and Philadelphia. Stephen Foster, whom I referenced, grew up in my home state of Pennsylvania. The four-day Farren Riots of 1834, which I mentioned, occurred in New York City, and the quote I pulled about it clearly states that the rioters were anti-abolitionists and that they were appeased when a minstrel in black-face entertained them with a song ridiculing a dandified African American. The 1864 campaign song was obviously aimed at Northerners since Confederate states had seceded and weren't voting in the 1864 election!

Unless I'm mistaken, the only overtly "Southern" songs here so far are "Maryland My Maryland" and my link to the Confederate war song "We Conquer or Die". As for Lincoln, I should hope that people reading this thread are aware of Lincoln's negative views about African Americans (I've read that his intention was to try to send them all back to Africa after the war).

The point of the thread is that pro-slavery songs did exist, and that they existed in abundance, and not that the thread is either pro-North or pro-South.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: Goose Gander
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 12:04 AM

Guess I'll have to apologize to you, Sharon, for reading carelessly and looking for a subtext when there was only text. Yes, simply reviewing the addresses of the publishing houses of the songs cited should demolish any argument that proslavery sentiment was merely a Southern phenomenon.
Regards.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 12:50 AM

Bah, no apologies necessary, Michael. It's not as if we weren't dealing with a sensitive issue here! There are plenty of scars that still haven't healed.

Here's a dirty little secret about slavery that some folks may be unaware of: slavery in the Northern states during abolitionism Check out the "actual end of slavery" on the chart at the bottom of that page.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 01:44 AM

Another minstrel/dance hall song, this one's message pretty heavy-handed. It's apparently aimed at blacks, or else intended to make whites think that blacks should have the mindset described. Not dated, but from the lyrics it was obviously written during the war!...

Where will I go
When dis War
BREAKS DIS COUNTRY UP.


Oh! where will I go when dis war breaks dis country up
And darkies have to scatter around?
This damned Bobolition, mancipation, and Secession
Am a going to run the nigger in the ground;
It's Bobolition here,
And Secession dare,
And neither one or t'other ob 'em's right,
One says dis,
Another says dat,
And dey both got de Country in a fight;
Den, what's a poor nigger going to do;

Oh! what is the use ob dis gangulating, fighting,
Botheration to de Country so forlorn:
Why don't dey tend to business, building boats and making railroads
While de darkies raise the cotton and the corn?
But it's Massachusetts here,
And South-Carolina dare,
Disturb dis happy Union with dare growl;
One says you shall,
De other says you shan't:
And Uncle Sam has got to stand it all;
Now what can a poor nigger do?

What a deuced shame it is, this Secession revolution
Am a using up de business ob de land;
Trade and navigation, merchandising speculation
Have very nearly come to [an end?]
De crops won't be sow'd
De meadows won't be [mow'd]
Kase dares nobody left for to tend 'em:
Dar's scarcity, it seems,
Ob Cabbage, Peas, and Beans,
Kase dar's nobody home for to tend 'em:
Den what's a poor hungry nigger going to do?

[Advertisement at bottom of sheet:] BALL ROOM MONITOR by Prof. C. Brooks, This little book will teach you correctly how to Dance. Send Johnson 25 cents by mail and he will send you a copy.

J. H. Johnson, Song Publisher, 7 N. 10th St. Philadelphia.

'Where Will I Go...' from American Memory site


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 03:11 AM

SOUTHERN SENTIMENTS.

Air.--"Let haughty Gaul invasion threat."

The Northern hordes invasion threat,
But we are not alarmed;
We made them at Big Bethel sweat,
With not ten Rebels harmed!
Their ships, and men by hundreds pour;
"All eager for the fray"--
But when they reach Potomac's shore,
More glad to get away!

The Northern hordes subjection cry,
They are not by us feared;
Each Southron for his rights will die,
By honor onward steered.
We're anxious, waiting, ready,
Prepared in purse and mind;
To free the South of all her foes,
And leave not one behind.

Amalgamation is the cry,
Which nerves these Hessians on;
For Nigger brides they all will die,
We treat their boasts with scorn.
For sainted Beecher, Greeley, Stowe,
Now raise on high their wail;
They know that they have caused this woe,
And feel that they must fail!

For Abolition Cameron shrieks,
And servile insurrection;
His secret from the Tribune leaks,
In howls of deep dejection.
They laud up freedom to the sky,
By this to show their weakness;
Their acts to words now give the lie,
Despite their seeming meekness.

[signed by] B.

Baltimore, Oct. 6th, 1861.

'Southern Sentiments' on American Memory site

[Note: I also ran across a wartime Confederate song with similar sentiments, in which Lincoln was referred to as "Nigger Lincoln".]

------------------------------------------------

[Here's one that is even more heavy-handed than "Where Will I Go When Dis War Breaks Dis Country Up." This time we have a dying character sharing his last words of utter despair for the plight of his fellow emancipated slaves. Now, granted, as it turned out, the situation was desperate for freed slaves after the Civil War, but I don't for a minute think that the songwriter was shedding a tear for them...]


WHO WILL CARE
for niggers now?


A PARODY on: Who will care for Mother now?

During Gen. Grant's Southern campaign, an extinguished American citizen wid de African scent, who had been forcib'y relieved from his master's corn-crib and bacon-stack, on which he was wholly dependent for support was benevolently permitted to starve to death, with thousands of others, by the Abolitionists; and, just before this desirable consummation, he was heard to give utterance to the following soliloquy, which was taken down, in short hand, by the Chaplain of the Regiment.

List to me, plantation niggers,
As I in dis mud-hole lie;
Though I feel starvation's rigors,
Let me say a word, and die..
Niggers, does dis look like Freedom!
I can't see it any how;
Blacks are fools, and white folks lead 'em:
But who cares for niggers now?

Chorus: Look heah! niggers, I am dying..
See the death-sweat on my brow..
Dis am Freedom, no use crying:
Who will care for niggers now?

Some say nigger's good as white folk,
Gizzard foot and Ebo shin!
Don't beliebe it, 'tis a tight joke --
Handsome... but you can't come in...
Well you libed on old plantation,
Earning, wid a sweating brow,
Plenty clothes and plenty ration!
But who cares for niggers now? Chorus.

White folks say dey gib us Freedom;
What dey gib is all my eye:
Free to suffer, free to languish,
Free to starve, and free to die..
No potato, corn-cake, bacon,
We must to starvation bow;
If dis Freedom, I's mistaken--
But who cares for niggers now? Chorus.

H. DE MARSAN, Publisher,
54 Chatham Street, New-York.


'Who Will Care...' on American Memory site


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 01:03 PM

Interesting topic. Any more?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 12:26 PM

Hi, Joe:
Obviously, it sure caught my interest! I've learned a lot from my short search about this. There are several more songs at the Library of Congress "American Memory" site that are similar to the ones I've posted. Not sure where else to look (any suggestions would be appreciated!). But the ones I've seen so far appear to fall into the the following categories:

Songs about how happy the carefree, playful slave is on the plantation (dancing and making music in the evenings; hunting small game; courting and marrying; sneaking off to town to play while "Massa" is away; etc.).

Songs about how miserable the fugitive slaves or the emancipated slaves are (or would be) in their present circumstances and how much they miss their old life as slaves (where Massa cared for them; where they didn't have to take responsibility for their own happiness; etc.).

Songs ridiculing the free blacks (e.g. the aforementioned "Zip Coon" -- I found the lyrics for that one but did not post them because I think they're VERY demeaning -- perhaps I should have posted them for that very reason [to demonstrate just how hateful these songs can be!]).

Songs that are outright warnings (warning blacks against running away or seeking emancipation; warning whites against violent fugitive slaves and freedmen; warning voters against approving abolitionist policy; etc.). By the way, I also found what must be a couple of post-war songs warning white girls not to fall in love with black men, and warning white men not to let their daughters be courted by black men (although they're irrelevant to the "pro-slavery" discussion, they certainly express anti-emancipation sentiment!).

Political campaign songs critical of abolitionist policy in general (and, in the later songs, of the "tyrant" Lincoln in particular). Many if not most of these are pro-Union and pro-Constitution, with the emphasis on an interpretation of "states' rights" that favored the continuation of slaveholding in states that would vote to approve it (ignoring the voting-fraud aspect of that particular scenario, that would skew the results in favor of slaveholding!!).

War songs (pre-Civil War and Civil War) celebrating the cause of states' rights (e.g. the right to own slaves) and celebrating Confederate victories, and including criticism of the North's tyranny and of individual military and political leaders in the North.

Did I miss any categories?

Sharon


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: Roberto
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 01:30 PM

The Good Old Rebel, a song from the point of view of the South, after the war. "Oh, I'm a good old rebel, non that's just what I am / For this fair Land of Freedom I do not care a damn / I'm glad I fought against it, I only wish we'd won / And I don't want no pardon for anything I've done" (etc). The first recording I heard was on Folkways, another very good one is on the soundrack of the movie The Long Riders (about Jesse James's band), music arranged by Ry Cooder. R


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 01:43 PM

Guess I forgot the category exemplified by the song chico posted about Harriet Beecher Stowe (on 13 Jul 06 - 08:43 PM and 08:51 PM ):

Songs critical of abolitionists -- in general or by name -- accusing them of hypocrisy, ridiculing them, etc.

(In the case of the songs chico posted about Stowe and John Brown, I suppose that they could also fall into the "warnings" category: warnings against becoming an abolitionist lest you be rebuffed by royalty, jailed, executed, sent to Hell, etc.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD: Darling Alalee
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 05:29 PM

Well, there's "Darling Alalee" which I learned from the Blue Sky Boys, who recorded it some time in the late 1930s:

DARLING ALALEE

Oh Alalee, so dear to me,
She's gone forevermore
Our home was down in Tennessee
Before the cruel war

    Then carry me back to Tennessee,
    There is where I long to be
    Among the fields of yellow corn
    With darling Alalee

Oh why did I from day to day
Keep wishing to be free
And from my master run away
And leave my Alalee

They said that I'd be soon be free
And happy all the day
But if they'll take me back again
I'll never run away.

(Myself, I prefer Darling Nellie Gray, all five verses)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: whozit
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 07:16 PM

This stuff reads like Zora Neale Hurston.

Maybe better.

I'm surprised at everything presented here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 09:45 PM

One aspect of the Pro/Anti slavery dispute that doesn't seem to get much attention is the the "six-tenths" rule, established back in 1781. It said that a slave's vote was equal to that of 0.6 times that of a free man. The votes, however, were cast by the slaveholder. As a result, a slaveholder who owned ten slaves got seven votes in national elections.

One effect of emancipation would be the effective disenfranchising of the slaveholding states of the south.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 12:59 AM

Dick Greenhaus: According to Wikipedia it was actually 1787, during the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia PA. The rule is more popularly known as the Three-Fifths Compromise.

I'm sure that the slaveholders considered it "disenfranchising" to have lost those extra votes, since they were being denied voting rights that had been given to them in the Constitution that their states had ratified in good faith many decades earlier. Hence the lyrics in some of the political-campaign songs and the war songs about anti-abolitionists being the defenders of the Constitution, while figures like Lincoln are called tyrants (probably in an attempt to hearken back to the Revolutionary War era when George III was the tyrant and the future framers of the Constitution were the good guys).

To those in the "free states", of course, it was worse than irksome that Southern slaveholders wielded so much political power through those extra votes (and that, to the Northern mind, the slaveholders were the ones doing the "disenfranchising"... or so said the political propaganda, anyway).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 09:55 AM

I don't think that is what the Constitution said. A slaveowner owning 100 slaves didn't get 61 votes. The actual wording is: "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons." (article I section 2) What this meant was that a slave state would send more representatives to the House than it would have done if only the voting population were counted. (Of course, at the time, most states limited the franchise to people owning property of a certain value, and NO state allowed women to vote.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 10:54 AM

Pete Peterson's right! Slaveowners did in effect get "extra votes", as I had put it, in the US House of Representatives and also in the Electoral College because of that system of apportionment, but the slaveholder himself didn't get to cast his ballot multiple times on Election Day.

I took another look at the Wikipedia page about the Three-Fifths Compromise and found this interesting:

EFFECTS -- The three-fifths compromise proved the margin of victory for a number of Southern political successes. Most famously, Thomas Jefferson was dubbed the "Negro President", as his election was dependent on white Southerners benefitting from the partial enumeration of slaves. Also, via Andrew Jackson, the Trail of Tears would never have happened, nor would the ban on congress to discuss slavery have been put into effect. Also, the 1820 Missouri Compromise would never have come into effect. While it is arguable that the 3/5ths compromise may have slowed the day that America came to blows with itself, via the Civil War, it is also arguable that the 3/5ths compromise caused most of the problems between the North and South.

In the 62 years between George Washington and the Compromise of 1850, slave holders held the presidency with the exceptions of John Adams and John Quincy Adams. They ruled all three branches of the government, via appointing southern judges, and having a majority in the senate or the congress or both.


...so, it would seem, the South exercised a form of "tyranny" (though I imagine that Southerners would have been loathe to call it that) over the US government for most of its antebellum existence, thanks to the apportionment of US Representatives! But what about the apportionment of tax revenue? Did the Three-Fifths Compromise mean that tax dollars collected in the industrial North flowed South? Or were taxes collected, as well as distributed, according to the 3/5th head-count?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: Goose Gander
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 11:19 AM

Actually, there was no income tax in the antebellum United States and major source of government revenue were tariffs on imported goods. These tariffs hit the South harder than the North because the South imported manufactured goods. The income generated from tariffs, on the other hand, was often used for internal improvements in the North. In earlier decades of the nineteenth century various Southern states groused about this and threatened secession, but it was only the perceived threat of the non-abolitionist Lincoln that spurned Southern statesmen to actually leave the Union.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 11:36 AM

Michael: True, no income tax, but wasn't there property tax? (A slave was property, after all, and so a taxable asset, yes?)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 12:42 PM

I brought up the three-fifths business as a suggestion that there were political realities behind the pro/anti-slavery debate. And, of course, my use of the word "disenfranchise" was a southern interpretation.
Dramatic as the popular causes of Freedom and State's Rights may have been, I suspect that the real issue was plain old dirty power politics.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: robinia
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:03 AM

Scholars may consider Stephen Foster's songs to be pro-slavery "propaganda" but that's not how I hear them; "Old Black Joe," for instance, has much the same spirit of gentle sadness as the more polically correct "Hard Times" (which only escapes condemnation because of its more neutral political topic). Foster was no rebel -- and he lived in a more sentimental age than ours -- but I think he was also a damn fine songwriter.
   On the topic of sentiment, the Maryland state anthem should come as no surprise to readers of "Killer Angels" or the collection of letters from soldiers of both sides of the Civil War ("Of Cause and Country," I think it's called) from which "Killer Angels" was drawn. That collection presents overwhelming evidence that the cause for which men were willing to die, on both sides, was the cause of "liberty".   And before we accuse the South of "hypocrisy" on this, what about our own forgetfulness on what, for Lincoln, was the whole point of the war: to preserve the Union. Why do we see that as such a noble aim, worth such a terrible price in blood, when there were other voices of the time who cried "let the wayward sisters go!" -- so noble for US to to have forcibly preserved our national Union and, only a few years ago, so applaudable when a Russian leader presided over the peaceful dissolution of the USSR?   Yes, I applauded him too, but I thought about the double standard . . . and I worried about the expectations we had for "freed peoples." Political freedom does not put food on the table or pay the rent . . .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: Goose Gander
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:32 AM

Maybe the strangest thing of all about nineteenth-century American pro-slavery songs and the pro-slavery argument in general is the idea that anyone thought a defense was necessary. Involuntary servitude of one kind or another has existed in just about every organized society of the past 6,000 years, and it continues to exist to this day in some societies (such as, for example, these United States . . . . prison labor, etc.). Why did writers, composers, politicians and others feel compelled to mount such a strident defense in 1850 when practically noone even questioned the morality of the institution 100 or 500 or 1000 years earlier?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:25 PM

Michael-
Just because the morality was being challenged in 1850.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: Goose Gander
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:25 PM

Yes, but why was the morality challenged in the nineteenth century? Some context is needed. To understand the songs posted here, you have to understand the intellectual currents and social movements that made a pro-slavery argument necessary. Pro-slavery implies the existence of anti-slavery.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: GUEST,Lauren P
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 07:13 PM

Hey im doing a project i need pro-slavery songs about relationships between slaves and owners? Can i get some help Sharon A or any other of these lovely posters?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: GUEST,Lauren P
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 07:33 PM

any pro slavery songs?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 09:33 PM

Give some of your background.

Where - Univeristy are you attending? Secondary? Elementry?
Who - Undergraduate, Thesis, or Disertation? (Desperate College before break?)
Why - Did you select this topic? (Instructor assignment/ Free will / My momma told me))
What - Reference material to back the claim of "slavery"- and which country (Many sovereign states have had some slavery background ... and some STILL practice ...SLAVERY ...if only on economic grounds. Must I Go Bound? was a hallmark of the "women's liberation" (USA - late 1960's.) Look to "Slip Knot" for lyric examples of past twenty-first-century "Goth slavery."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Kid - return to the mentor and ask for a change of topic...the pump don't work... cause the vandals took the handle.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: doc.tom
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 07:58 AM

Fantastic thread - thank you. I'm well aware of the involvement of both attitudes this side of the pond but it's fascinating to see some of the prop. material from the other side of the pond -keep up the good work!
TomB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 01:42 AM

=========
From: John O'L - PM
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 03:08 AM
It seems to me that for some reason oppressors are rarely as musical as those they oppress.
Perhaps they are muscial, in a different way. Perhaps being an oppressor doesn't lend itself to song as readily as being an oppressee.
========
Bit late perhaps to add a gloss on this 4+ year old post; & its point has perhaps been to an extent gainsaid by many of the posts that follow it, esp the indefatigable, and valuable, work of the tireless SharonA.

But it might be work quoting here, in general terms, Bert Lloyd's cogent dictum that "People have always sung best when they had least to sing about".

~M~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Pro Slavery Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 08:59 PM

I am in a high school honors english class, I chose music as my research topic, and through music I am to determine the opinion of musicians and society of slavery with the north and south. I am very interested in including blackface production music in my project, music must also be from 19th century.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 17 February 2:58 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.