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BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...

Bobert 13 Jul 06 - 09:15 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Jul 06 - 09:36 PM
GUEST 13 Jul 06 - 09:40 PM
catspaw49 13 Jul 06 - 09:43 PM
Rapparee 13 Jul 06 - 09:58 PM
michaelr 14 Jul 06 - 01:04 AM
Troll 14 Jul 06 - 09:03 PM
Charley Noble 14 Jul 06 - 09:07 PM
Little Hawk 14 Jul 06 - 09:22 PM
CarolC 14 Jul 06 - 09:33 PM
Bobert 14 Jul 06 - 09:39 PM
Rapparee 14 Jul 06 - 09:43 PM
Bill D 14 Jul 06 - 10:45 PM
CarolC 14 Jul 06 - 11:08 PM
Peace 14 Jul 06 - 11:21 PM
Amos 14 Jul 06 - 11:48 PM
Peace 14 Jul 06 - 11:54 PM
GUEST 15 Jul 06 - 09:10 AM
michaelr 15 Jul 06 - 12:38 PM
Peace 15 Jul 06 - 03:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Jul 06 - 08:50 PM
Troll 15 Jul 06 - 09:13 PM
Rapparee 15 Jul 06 - 09:38 PM
frogprince 15 Jul 06 - 09:55 PM
Troll 15 Jul 06 - 10:03 PM
Rapparee 15 Jul 06 - 10:16 PM
Little Hawk 15 Jul 06 - 10:38 PM
Greg F. 15 Jul 06 - 11:03 PM
Bert 16 Jul 06 - 12:39 AM
CarolC 16 Jul 06 - 02:56 AM
Rapparee 16 Jul 06 - 10:41 AM
Troll 16 Jul 06 - 06:18 PM
frogprince 16 Jul 06 - 09:11 PM
PeteBoom 17 Jul 06 - 04:58 PM
kendall 17 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM
Troll 17 Jul 06 - 05:45 PM
CarolC 17 Jul 06 - 07:10 PM
dianavan 18 Jul 06 - 02:04 AM
Peace 18 Jul 06 - 02:21 AM
DougR 18 Jul 06 - 06:11 PM
CarolC 18 Jul 06 - 06:26 PM
stallion 19 Jul 06 - 06:33 AM

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Subject: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:15 PM

Well, well, well...

Seems that both Tom Foley and the man who replaced him, Newt Gingrich, are each very concerned that the US governnment is on the brink of going down in flames...

In comments made before the American Enterprise Institute both former Speakers of the House expressed similar sentiments that the executive branch has taken too much power from the legistaive branch...

Gingrich: "Congress really has to think about how fundamentally wrong the current system is..."

Foley: "If the Congress fails, democracy fails..."

(Source: "The Ex-Speakers Speak With ONe Voice on the State of Congress", Washington Post, by Dana Milbank, 7/13/06)

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:36 PM

Foley and Gingrich

If Congress continues to lay down for the administration, soon Herr Bush will have to face the argument with George Phelps about which of them is the real GOD.

The Courts have already been pretty will packed at District levels, so Congress will have to go it alone...

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:40 PM

Yeah. I just can't wait for Anarchy to break out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:43 PM

Wasn't it soooo much nicer with Bill Clinton? Back then it was Monica going down..................

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:58 PM

I've always thought it nice to know who's going downing down, yeah.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 01:04 AM

If it does, what will replace it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Troll
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:03 PM

How about a Taliban-style theocracy? That might prove interesting.

Or a monarchy; one of the Kennedys or Kerry or the Bush family or the Gores...

The possibilities are endless but I will state right now that I don't want the job so the field is wide open.

I know that this is a major blow to some of you but I can't afford the pay cut. My princly pension from the Post ofice coupled with my reduced Social Security (I'm a "double dipper") barely support my lavish lifestyle as it is.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:07 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:22 PM

Chongo and some of his pals are probably willing to step into the breach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:33 PM

Or maybe just some people with some honesty and integrity who believe in the US Constitution and the rule of law, and who take their oath to uphold and to protect and defend the Constitution serously. That would make a refreshing change from what we've got now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:39 PM

Seems that this issue is pickin' up steam... Diane Rheme spend an hour on it today...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:43 PM

All we really need are legislators with guts and a desire to work for the community instead of themselves and their pals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 10:45 PM

We do have an awkward situation. This country has no real plan, short of impeachment, for addressing a govt. that has lost respect & credibility. Mid-term congressional elections might help...but 2½ years more of this will be excruciating. If this were Gr. Britain or Israel..or several other countries...there would have been a change at the top by now. One of the penalties we pay for 'stability'.

(Impeachment...right. Bring in Cheney...that'll help!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 11:08 PM

All we really need are legislators with guts and a desire to work for the community instead of themselves and their pals.

Or even work for the voters... what a radical idea!

Impeach Cheney, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 11:21 PM

Dontcha think yer askin' for a bit much there, Carol? Hell, my buddy here has more guts than Congress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 11:48 PM

That was meant as a humerus post, I take it?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 11:54 PM

Ulna be listenin' to that, Amos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:10 AM

I wants me one o dem big ass 60 in teevees when da riots start.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 12:38 PM

In some European countries the parliament (congress) can hold a Vote of No Confidence. If successful, it forces out the current administration and mandates new elections.

Sounds like a useful tool.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 03:46 PM

We have that in Canada. If a major bill the majority party is trying to get through is defeated, that is seen as a 'no confidence' vote, and the party in power has to call an election within (I think) six months.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 08:50 PM

Turkeys are unlikely to vote for Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Troll
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:13 PM

Just curious, but how many times has an unpopular action that caused a change of government due to public outcry prooved to have been the correct action in the long run?

Does anyone from one of the countries with this system know of such a case?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:38 PM

Throw the rascals out!! Bring new rascals in!!

Term limits. 8 years max for the president, in any combination. 12 years (2 terms) for Senators, 12 years (6 terms) for Representatives. Pay 'em the prevailing wage in their home district with raises ONLY by vote in the home district. No special retirement fund, Social Security only plus their own savings. No medical, etc. insurance beyond that available to the common folk in their home district. But pay their staffers Civil Service wage -- they do all the work anyway.

Honorariums strictly limited, ditto gifts -- I suggest US $1,000 max.

Conviction of ANY crime means you're out of office; conviction of a felony is punishable by death or life without parole.

Violation of the oath of office should be a capital offense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:55 PM

I almost seriously wish we could give all that a try, Repaire; it sure as heck would at least totally change the typical profile of candidates. Wonder if it would really come out well, or if we would just get a bunch of petty little felons, too stupid to believe they could get caught.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Troll
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 10:03 PM

Repaire, I would prefer one 6-year term for Presidents That way they aren't spending half their time running for re-election and something similar for reps and senators.

Otherwise, what you said.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 10:16 PM

Heck, if the big guys thought they'd get caught they wouldn't do it. But the Fools On The Hill are too damned conceited to think they'll be caught -- they have in common with the sneak thief.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 10:38 PM

Troll, you asked:

"how many times has an unpopular action that caused a change of government due to public outcry prooved to have been the correct action in the long run?"

Well, it doesn't exactly work quite that way. I don't think any Canadian government has ever been changed due to "public outcry"...

Ha! (as if the public had anything to do with it...)

No, it works more this way: The Canadian system is not a 2 party system...it's a multi-party system. Most of the time it is either a 3 party or a 4-party system, to all intents and purposes. The party that holds the most seats at any time is the governing party. IF they hold a majority of the seats, then you can be guaranteed that they will remain in office for basically about as long as the law allows (upon which they are required to have an election). IF on the other hand, they do NOT hold a majority of the seats, then they must bargain with one or more of the other parties in order to successfully pass legislation and keep governing effectively. This is called a "minority government". The ironical thing is, minority governments usually pass more progressive and better legislation than majority governments do because:

1. they aren't so arrogant and self-serving (can't risk it)
2. they must work on ideas in cooperation with others, and that can lead to better ideas

Minority governments are, of course, vulnerable to losing a key vote, in which case they are expected to immediately call an election and face the electorate again.

This does NOT happen because of a public outcry! It happens because the other parties decide the time has come to "bring down the government" and they join forces to do so. Do they do it because of their burning desire for justice and public service??? Ha! I laugh uproariously!

NO. They do it because, like sharks, they scent blood and they figure the time is right to knock over the minority government and make gains in the next election. It's 99% pure self-interest that motivates them. It's also a matter of the right timing. If they were to do it a month after the last election, the public would be mad as hell and would punish them for it at the polls...so they wait until the time seems right and THEN they join forces to cripple the minority government.

This eventuality may be accompanied by a public outcry...or not...but do not make the mistake of imagining that a public outcry is what changes governments in parliamentary systems. No sir. Party power political games are what changes governments in a parliamentary system.

So what you fear...the fickle and varying moods of the public...is hardly a factor in the matter, except as to how it may affect the coming vote in the new election. And that's a bit unpredictable. It depends on a great many different factors...just as it does in a 2-party system like in the USA.

For instance, the far better man may lose the election...just because he doesn't happen to look as good on a TV screen. You know, the usual nonsense. It's the mass marketing of a personality, and all the typical BS applies...just as in the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 11:03 PM

The U.S. already has term limits.

They're called elections, but they only work if people get off their asses, actually educate themselves about the issues instead of swallowing the propaganda, and vote.

Mandated maximum terms of service will change absolutely nothing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Bert
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 12:39 AM

Going? GOING?    It's already bloody gone and George the Second will install brother Jeb when his term is up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 02:56 AM

Wonder if it would really come out well, or if we would just get a bunch of petty little felons, too stupid to believe they could get caught.

Except for the words "petty" and "little", this is precisely what we have now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 10:41 AM

George the THIRD. But Washington he ain't, and neither was his daddy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Troll
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 06:18 PM

The world is coming to an end. I find myself agreeing with Greg.

What a shuddersome thought.

On the other hand, I don't think I'VE changed so Greg must have.

Welcome aboard Greg. Onward through the fog.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 09:11 PM

That's what I meant, Carol; possible petty little felons, instead of the current major felons. : )


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: PeteBoom
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 04:58 PM

O'er the hills and o'er the main,
To Afaganistan and Palastine -
King George commands and we obey
O'er the hills and far away...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM

When Bush's pal, Grover Norquist, is worried, we should all shudder!
He's that hard right guy who said "We want to make the US government small enough to drown it in the bath tub."


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Troll
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 05:45 PM

That doesn't sound like a bad idea right now.

We could start over and maybe get it right this time.

Or not....

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 07:10 PM

What has Norquist said, Kendall?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:04 AM

Maybe kendall is referring to this: "This habit appalls even Grover Norquist, a prominent conservative who normally supports Bush. In The New York Review of Books, Washington journalist Elizabeth Drew offers this quote from Norquist: "If you interpret the Constitution's saying that the president is commander-in-chief to mean that the president can do anything he wants — and can ignore the laws — you don't have a constitution: you have a king."

http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotian/516577.html

Its actually a very good article about the Canadian perspective and is addressed to our Prime Minister who is so anxious to be pals with Georgie-porgie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:21 AM

Hell, D'van. If President Bush stopped short, Prime Minister Harper would be in past his ears.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: DougR
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:11 PM

"Going down," Bobert. No, I think that term is more closely associated with the "other" political party. You know, the one previously led by the #1 "going downer."

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:26 PM

He wasn't the "go down-er", he was the "go down-ee" (as far as we know).


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Subject: RE: BS: Is the US Gov't Going Down???...
From: stallion
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:33 AM

What amazes me, and many other brits, is how he ever got "up there". Maybe a significant majority of the US population originated from Hartlepool (UK), or maybe it is all the creationists, maybe god "had" sent them an intelligent monkey. And, before you get on my case, I did not vote for Tony Blair. Is it true what they say about texans and Steers (or was it Buffalos - do you get buffalos in Texas?)? And, is Dubya living proof that this is not, indeed, a myth.

PS
The residents of Hartlepool once hanged a chimpanzee believing it to be a French spy

PPS
One saving grace about the US eco /politics thing is that they seem to be honest about being in it for thre bucks, in Yorkshire we have a saying "ya don't get owt for nowt" It's the same the whole world over so why do brits get so hung up on a bit of payola, beats me.


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