BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it

Subject: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 09:44 PM

Watching the G8 meeting on the TV and hearing the report that no member there wanted to stop the bombing of Lebanon, on the one hand, and seeing the graphic photos on the internet of little Lebanese children cut to shreds by the Israeli bombs, makes me wonder how near to a nuclear war the world leaders are willing to go?

Do they think that the Islamic nations are as hearless as they, the politicians of the world, are?

Or have we passed that point already? Does anybody know what the Pakistani Muslems are going to do? Will they get involved to defend Islam/Iran and Syria?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 09:49 PM

I say blow the whole thing up and start over. Don't allow any religion.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 09:56 PM

"Kill them all. God will know his own."

How very, very Christian.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 09:57 PM

Well, hate to harp on poor ol' Mr. Bush but much of this is his fault... He has single handedly started no one, but two, unwinnable wars and he has turned his back on the Middle East... Now that the Middle East is blowing up he makes enought noise to wake up a sleeping mouse but not much beyond that...

Yeah, this is the Bush foriegn policy playing out that rewards his campaign contributers over what is best for the world and the country...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 11:40 PM

sorefingers, you ask,

"Does anybody know what the Pakistani Muslims are going to do?"

Aside from the common, everyday, Pakistani Muslim, most of the terrorists are trained in the hinterlands of Pakistan and they want Kashmir, too.   

With all the action in Lebanon, I guess you've forgotten about Mumbai. You make me wonder if anyone is really connecting the dots?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Troll
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 11:59 PM

What dots. As everyone seems to know, it's all Bush's fault. None of this would have happened if Bush hadn't/had only ....you fill in the blanks.

Ebbie, you give me hope. Just when I think I have you safely categorized, you say something sensible.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:26 AM

That was Dinavan, Troll -- Ebbie has not posted to this thread at this time.


A

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:41 AM

The night air seems to be getting to poeple . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:02 AM

Sensible is in the eye of the sensible.....
Be not at fault if you faulter unto the un-faultered.
The simple meaning of life does not limit the simple.
It only remains a senseless act if committing a senseless act unto the- unwilling, unwanting and unknowing.
Therefore, let the thought of the unwilling,unwanting and unknowing, result in the result... .:::
and forget the whole fucking thing.

Love, peace and getting some of the strawberry pie left over from the rapture, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:11 AM

Did we meet in the 1960s? I understood that, RR.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:11 AM

Is it Sara Lee Strawberry Pie?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:15 AM

The Middle East has turned its back on the UN and the Palestinians for years. They sponsor this violence, encourage it, and have never allowed any peace process to take hold in the region. The west has just given up trying in my opinion. WW3 is upon us i'm afraid

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:20 AM

"On the sixth day of its major offensive in Lebanon, Israel was allowing evacuation ships through its blockade of the country. France and Italy moved hundreds of nationals and other Europeans out Monday on a Greek cruise liner. An Italian ship left earlier with 350 people, and other governments were organizing pullouts by land to Syria.

Diplomatic efforts gained traction with Israel signaling it might scale back its demands. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said fighting would halt only if Hezbollah, a Shiite militia that controls much of south Lebanon, pulls back from the border and releases the two soldiers whose capture last week triggered the Israeli offensive."

from the www, news

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:26 AM

Why is it that so many of the men in the Mudcat think all of the women here are interchangable?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:31 AM

I am predictin that the Lebanon 'front' will stop within three days.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:35 AM

You know, Peace, something tells me that if we left all the foreign nationals, tourists and other Europeans in Lebanon to suffer the same fate as the Lebanese people, the violence would end sooner.

Actually, I think its chicken-shit to rescue your own citizens and leave everyone else at the mercy of Israel without condemning the actions of Israel. Its like, "Sure go ahead and bomb the f#*! out of Lebanon and kill and maim its citizens but let us get our people out of there first."

If other nations really wanted peace, they would implore Israel to stop the bombing for the sake of all people. The only way Israel will ever get my support is if they do the undercover work necessary to find the terrorists. To condemn all of the people in Lebanon for the behaviour of a few is just not on.

You should know this, you're a teacher. If one student does something wrong, do you punish the whole class?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:35 AM

On what are you basing your prediction, Peace?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:43 AM

Probably on the Israelis' previous behaviour pattern. Before you ask Carol, I too think Israel should GTF out of Israel!

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:45 AM

Funny, isn't it, Carol.

It seems you, me and Ebbie are often taken to be one and the same.
Some men think that all women think the same. I find it amusing and somewhat informative. If they have that much trouble citing a simple comment on Mudcat, think of how confused they must be when reading anything of substance. Thats probably why their conclusions are so far off. Its not even worth correcting them.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:56 AM

Is anyone talking sanity when they reply to this thread?
My answer.......absolutly a difficult subject... not to be confused with trotting down a pebble street, shoeless and in need of a pair of thongs.



Peace- You said you heard what I said. I love you more than I love avacodoes ripe and smothered with salsa!

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:01 AM

I figure it this way:

1) The Israelis have changed their terms to "return the kidnapped soldiers and withdraw from the border and allow the Lebanese army to replace Hezbollah". That is a far cry from "the Hezbollah must disarm".

2) By putting the 'ball' in H's court, it then gives Arab 'nations' who could have some influence with H the ability to speak more strongly about it.

3) I think the Israelis are not barbarians (yes, I realize there are over 200 dead; ther are also 24 Israeli dead (civilians)). They have gone after H targets--that is, targets where Hezbollah has buildings, arms caches, missiles. They have not prosecuted a war against civilians. If they had, the death toll would now be in the tens of thousands, IMO.

4) The Israelis have made clear what they want. It has gone from "Hezbollah must disarm" to "withdraw from the border". It is a good decision on Israel's part because it will then take a voice away from their critics and allow people to see what Hezbollah is like.

5) Wishful thinking also plays a part in it.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:08 AM

Naked avocadoes smothered in salsa? BE STILL my BEATING HEART.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:24 AM

12 Israeli civilians, Peace. The other 12 were Israeli soldiers. 7 of the civilians killed in Lebanon were Canadians.

Well, time will tell. Maybe you're right.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:26 AM

I hope so. Wish it would happen right now. Won't be soon enough for anyone there.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:05 AM

Ya wanna stop it?

Sand + Heat = Glass

AKA, If You Can't Play Nice, Fuck You!

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:19 AM

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: alanabit - PM
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:43 AM

Probably on the Israelis' previous behaviour pattern. Before you ask Carol, I too think Israel should GTF out of Israel!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, that should have read, "I too think Israel should GTF out of Lebannon." Sorry for the typo folks!

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:25 AM

World War was declared in 1914 and it has never stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:47 AM

"Of course, that should have read, "I too think Israel should GTF out of Lebannon." Sorry for the typo folks!"

There are some, Alan, who will say you had it right the first time, and that the Middle East (and the world) would be more peaceful for it.

Don't misunderstand me. I am neither anti Jew, nor anti Israel (the terms, to me, are not interchangeable, one being a religion and the other a nation), but the arbitrary appropriation of someone else's property is bound to be resented, and Israel is arguably the most arrogant and undiplomatic nation on the planet.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current situation, the Israeli response is (predictably) over the top, and quite unjustifiable.

Time perhaps for the self appointed playground supervisor (you all know who I mean) to separate the kids and give them BOTH a slap, then make them behave.

What he will of course do (as usual) is pat Izzie on the head, and exclude Hezzie from school, so Izzie will continue to kick the shit out of his classmates, until they finally get together and knock seven bells out of him.

The problem is that half the school may be demolished in the ruction.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 07:14 AM

I hope Peace is right about the three day timeframe.

But my gut (and some things I've been reading) tells me that Israel is probably just waiting until most of the foriegn nationals have a chance to leave Lebanon, and then it will commense slaughtering civilians in earnest.

I hope I am wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 07:17 AM

*commence*

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:57 AM

"Sand + Heat = Glass"

And thank you, Mr. Dennis Miller! He'll be playing at the Chucklehut in Cleveland all week, ladies and gentlemen, so head on down there to see him! :P

Anyways, no WWIII. Just more of Israel setting itself up for its own unavoidable downfall. The children of those people killed in these attacks (Gaza and Lebanon) won't soon forget who killed their families. They'll make excellent, motivated soldiers one day. The Israeli Jews (and other assorted foreigners) will (inevitably) be outnumbered in "their" own land by the more virile Israeli and Palestinian Arabs, and their numbers will be further decreased my emigration to escape the endless harrassing rocket and bomb attacks of near-invisible enemies. And then they will only be able to pray that those fighting men they've created today will be more compassionate than they themselves were. Whether these fighting men are twenty years old or fifty years old, it doesn't really matter. The foreign colonies in Palestine are doomed, today or tomorrow. Sucks to be a colonist, I guess.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:00 AM

"Sucks to be a colonist, I guess."

Except when you are bigger and stronger than the indigenous peoples I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 11:16 AM

" And thank you, Mr. Dennis Miller!"

When I say it, I'm not joking...

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Metchosin
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:07 PM

Careful Clinton, CISIS could be on your ass quicker than crabs if they thought you could detonate a nuclear device. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:33 PM

If I had a rocket launcher....

... some son-of-a-bitch would die

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Metchosin
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:48 PM

Some sons of a bitches already beat you to it Clinton and some sons of a bitches such as
these ones and these ones are already dead.

.....and this is not the way to put an end to war......

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:21 PM

I tend to agree with Don(WYZYWYG)T.

As I walk through This wicked world Searchin' for light in the darkness of insanity.

I ask myself Is all hope lost? Is there only pain and hatred, and misery?

And each time I feel like this inside, There's one thing I wanna know: What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?

And as I walked on Through troubled times My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes So where are the strong And who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony.

'Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?

So where are the strong? And who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony.

'Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?

(Nick Lowe - he counts as folkish because he used to be married to Carlene Carter - daughter of Roseanne Carter and Johnny Cash)

Quack! GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:31 PM

Glass is VERY peaceful.....

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Metchosin
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:38 PM

to whom.................? The toothless and the blind perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:42 PM

These delusional religious zealots have been at this for HUNDREDS of years....   

When does the rest of the world get to say "ENOUGH!!! Play nice or DIE!"?!?!?!?!

If the world was run like, say, a decent web-forum, they all woulda been booted a LONG time ago

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:46 PM

These delusional religious zealots have been at this for HUNDREDS of years....

Which delusional religious zealots?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:17 PM

All of them

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:55 PM

If I had a launcher
   I'd launch it in the morning
   I'd launch it in the evening....

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:09 PM

jacqui: Are the United States, Britain, and their allies not "bigger and stronger" than the indigenous Iraqi insurgents? Better equipped and trained? Huh, that must be why the "war" is going so well, then. :)

Clinton: And what exactly would the genocidal murders of hundreds of millions accomplish? You'd get to watch "Entertainment Tonight" without those pesky "NEWS ALERTS"? You're not the center of the universe. And even if you were, you should realise that the fallout from those bombs would surely give even you cancer.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:24 PM

Hey, step back fir jsut a second...

Conflict resolution is what is needed...

Try dustin' off the Saudi Proposal...

It is a framework that, if implimneted, can bring peace to the Middle East...

1. Isreal retreats to the '76 borders...

2. The Arab nations agree tnat Isreal has a right to exist and normalize relations...

Yeah, sure, there'sa few details to work out but unless you wnat endless hostility, this is what it boils down to...

Reserect this proposal and quit the friggin' killin' of innocents...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:31 AM

This WW3 hype has got to stop, before the 100th monkey believes it.

Shit, I just saw Newt (the name is no accident) Gingrich saying that.

It's a regional conflict and always has been. All nations should try to keep it that way. Unfortunately the combatants keep acquiring bigger and bigger sticks. I say the oil companies are behind it so they can charge $10 per gallon.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:50 AM

If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.
Think about it...

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Arne
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:24 AM

alanabit:

Of course, that should have read, "I too think Israel should GTF out of Lebannon." Sorry for the typo folks!

Made sense to me the first way. I've always said that we could solve a lot of problems had we given the diaspora refugees ten times the land in some western state here in the U.S.; the Middle East is not a particularly hospitable place nowadays (we went through the Sinai last New Years, and it is without doubt a desert).

But there was that "Next year in Jerusalem!" The desire wasn't just for a "homeland", but a particular piece fo godforsaken rock. When religion gets into it, people get a bit crazy, IMNSHO. Trouble here is that three> major religions have their eyes on Jerusalem and vicinity. Jerusalem should be an open, international city, open to all and under U.N. mandate or something. And we should find some place where the people in Israel can find peace that isn't right next to the people they kicked out to get it.

But that's too rational.... <*SIGH*>

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:40 AM

You're right, alanabit, its way too rational. Religious zealots are not rational.

I still think Germany would make a good homeland for the Jews. They should have sent the Germans to Jerusalem. It makes more sense.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:54 AM

Yes Carol C...ALL of them!!! Of any stripe at all.
Mr Weenie Bush apparently said 'shit' yesterday...do you suppose he had a mouthful or a bellyful?

dvan...I agree!!! MOERE room!!!

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:22 AM

Mr Weenie Bush apparently said 'shit' yesterday...do you suppose he had a mouthful or a bellyful?

Can anyone point me to a video or an online article about this? All I've seen is a couple of criptic comments here in the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: chazkratz
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:36 AM

Dave, you're right. If the Palestinians laid down their arms, there would be no more violence--after the Israelis forced the rest of the Palestinians out of the occupied territories to make room for Israeli settlers. Of course, that's assuming that the rest of the Arab and Islamic world merely stood by.

Charles

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:58 AM

Carol C. - Blair was leaning over Bush who was seated and eating. As Bush was stuffing his mouth and eating like a pig he commented on Syria and said shit in the same breath. It was priceless. He really looked like the uncultured pig that he is. He was just forking it in. It looked like he hadn't eaten in days.   

Maybe I'm wrong but he also seemed a bit agitated by Blair's question. He also made Blair look like the little lap dog that he is. Bush is definitely calling the shots. Blair is scared to death of him.

Sorry, no link.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:17 AM

Open Mic transcript and article

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:53 AM

Who dresses Blair? That tie has GOT to go.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 07:57 AM

Arne,

"Jerusalem should be an open, international city, open to all and under U.N. mandate or something."


Sorry, that was proposed in 1948- The Jews accepted it, but the Arab nations rejected it out of hand. Then spent from 1948 to 1967 preventing Jews from having access to their holiest site.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 08:47 AM

Lepus Rex - jacqui: Are the United States, Britain, and their allies not "bigger and stronger" than the indigenous Iraqi insurgents? Better equipped and trained? Huh, that must be why the "war" is going so well, then. :)

My comment referred to colonists, not invaders. Look back in history - the colonisation of the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, Africa. Even further back the Roman empire. It has always happened, may always happen. The success, and thus the acceptance of any colonisation attempt seems to depend on the size of the stick being wielded.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 10:04 AM

Who gives a shit what tie he wears? That sort of crap is part of the failure of democracy.

What about the open mic stuff - the patronising ignorant arrogance of Bush, the supine lickspittle toadying of Blair? These berks lead two of the most important world powers? Oh shit no wonder we are in troble.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Arne
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:20 PM

BeardedBruce:

[Arne]: "Jerusalem should be an open, international city, open to all and under U.N. mandate or something."

Sorry, that was proposed in 1948- The Jews accepted it, but the Arab nations rejected it out of hand. Then spent from 1948 to 1967 preventing Jews from having access to their holiest site.

And this makes my suggestion a bad idea exactly how?!?!?

I'd note that present sentiment and the present situation don't match the above, though. It seems that 'possession is nine tenths of the law'. I still say, in that regard, a pox on all their houses.

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Arne
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:57 PM

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: ard mhacha
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:10 PM

Someone suggested that Israel should bomb them all, it seems that has started as the BBC News has informed us that the Maronite Christians have now been bombed, the distress of the innocent will not make the slightest difference to the jewish terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:36 PM

The report I heard also states that the Israelis were bombing a truck with rocket launchers on it. I suppose you do not consider this to be a military target?

If Hezbollah puts rocket launchers into civilian areas, they are responsible for the civilian casualties, and in violation of international law.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:48 PM

"Jerusalem should be an open, international city"

Jerusalem should be nuked flat as an affront to human intelligence..

For shame, clinging to out-dated, offensive superstitions....

For shame... Killing each other over such delusions.....

For shame....

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:49 PM

Approzimately 50,000 Canadians are trapped in Lebanon. Sure, ships will evacuate some of them from Beirut but what about the others in other parts of the country. The roads and bridges have been bombed and they can't get there.

Does Israel also blame them for the capture of a soldier?

Does Israel give a damn about innocent civilians or are they only interested in revenge?

If Israel doesn't smarten up, the whole world will hold them responsible for another Lebanese massacre.

When will they ever learn?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:56 PM

"The report I heard also states that the Israelis were bombing a truck with rocket launchers on it. I suppose you do not consider this to be a military target? "


BBC 6 o'clock news showed a closeup of the truck carrying a DRILLING RIG which was the target of that missile.

Looks like that Israeli pilot was trained by the same man who trains the A10 tankbuster boys who flew in Iraq.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:57 PM

There would be an immediate ceasefire if Hezbollah released the kidnap victims and stopped firing rockets at Israeli civilians.

Does Hezbollah give a damn about innocent civilians or are they only interested in revenge?

If the trucks that launch the rockets at Israeli civilians use those roads to go from launch site to launch site, the roads are militray targets. If you do not understand this, you need to start thinking a little. If HEZBOLLAH parks a launcher in front of your house, EXPECT a bomb or artillary shell soon after the launch-. Israel has risked planes and lives to drop warning leaflets telling civilians this- AND YOU THINK IT IS OK for Hezbollah to continue to target civlians, but deny the Israelis the right to attack the launchers?????????

If Hezbollah doesn't smarten up, the whole world will hold them responsible for another Lebanese massacre.

When will they ever learn?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:56 PM

Hey Juicy Brucie, the IRA terrorists breathed the same air as the civilised population in Ireland.

Would that have justified England, if it could, extracting all air from Ireland in order to kill the terrorists?

Are your American policeman not trained to withold the use of firearms if bystanders would be jeopardised?

If Israel is entitled to hold any particular set of borders because it has held them under international law since 1967 or 1948 or whatever, then England was entitled to hold Ireland which it had lawfully ruled for over 300 years.

Let's have a bit of consistency here.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:01 PM

There would be an immedicate ceasefire and the return of the captured soldier if Israel would release the women and children they have unlawfully detained.

Do you think I'd have anything to say about it if Hezbollah parked a rocket launcher in front of my house? Civilians have no say in this. You seem to think that Hezbollah=Lebanon. It does not.

Return the women and children and the soldier will be returned. If not, Israel will be considered a terrorist state by most of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:29 PM

"Who gives a shit what tie he wears? That sort of crap is part of the failure of democracy."

It was meant to lighten the mood. It obviously didn't lighten yours.

The death of Democracy? NO SHIT, Richard, no shit.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:33 PM

Remember when Wolfowitz was appointed to the World Bank? Remember that? These bastards are a fuckin' joke. BUT, the joke ain't funny. As to my remark about Blair's tie--humour has its place at the table of discontent. That is one of the ways I choose to express my disdain for people like Bush and Blair. You are free to choose the way you wish to do the same. But do not today or tomorrow castigate me for my method of registering disgust.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 09:36 PM

"My comment referred to colonists, not invaders. Look back in history - the colonisation of the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, Africa. Even further back the Roman empire. It has always happened, may always happen. The success, and thus the acceptance of any colonisation attempt seems to depend on the size of the stick being wielded." ---jacqui.c

In order to replicate the European colonisation of the Americas, or the English colonization of Australia, Israel would first need to eliminate almost the entire Arab/Muslim population the region. Then it would need to convert the survivors to Judaism, and then bring in millions of Jewish settlers (which would be, like, all of them) to re-settle the land. Unless they can do all that, which they fucking can't, they're always just going to be the Afrikaners of the Levant: An inorganic, offensively foreign presence, with blood ties to neither its indigenous population, nor its neighbours. You don't actually envision a future Jewish, Hebrew-speaking Middle East, do you?

Anyways, your examples are of rich, militarily advanced nations taking on bands of stone-wielding primitives with an unfortunate lack of immunity to smallpox. This isn't the case in the Middle East. Israel's military is more powerful and advanced than those of its neighbours, yes. But the technological gap isn't so large that Israel could just roll over the entire region unopposed. Note their current invasion of puny Lebanon, their only neighbour without a proper military. Even there, they can do nothing but rain bombs down on civilians, leaving Hezbollah more or less untouched and free to launch Katyusha after Katyusha. However big Israel's "stick," it's shown the world that all it can do with it is crush Arab babies.

beardedbruce: Yeah, this was a really stupid move by Hezbollah. Because they're being completely wiped out by Israel. And all those civilians being bombed by Israel are totally turning against them. And not against Israel. Yeeeeeeah.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 12:41 AM

He also made Blair look like the little lap dog that he is. Bush is definitely calling the shots. Blair is scared to death of him.

Blair is not scared of Bush the person. He knows he could wipe the floor with Bush intellectually and he only licks Bush's arse because it suits him to do so. Bliar's fear is for his future in British politics. If he has any fear involving Bush, it is of selling more schemes and lies to the British public.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 12:04 PM

There is travel advisory for Canadians that want to go to Lebanon, the West Bank or Gaza but not for Israel.

What does that tell you?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 12:14 PM

Gee, I wonder if some of the supposedly 40,000 Canadians now in Lebanon and wanting out, could just slip over the the border.....

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 12:23 PM

Thats probably preferable to the ordeal of going by ship from Lebanon to Cyprus. I just heard an interview with one of the Canadians to arrive in Cyprus and he said there was no food, water or medical care on board. In addition, people were getting sea sick and vomiting with no way to clean it up. They had to sleep on the floor amidst all of this misery.

Now I realize that its probably preferrable to being blown to bits but I think the idea of leaving from an Israeli may not be such a bad idea. Israel did offer to help...

Right!

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: C. Ham
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 03:35 PM

There is travel advisory for Canadians that want to go to Lebanon, the West Bank or Gaza but not for Israel.

What does that tell you?

A visit to the Government of Canada website tells me that Dianavan in lying.

There is a travel advisory posted for Israel.

Here it is Dianavan, copied and pasted:

ISRAEL

Canadians travelling to Israel should pay particular attention to current safety and security conditions. Ongoing terrorist activity has resulted in numerous deaths and injuries, and the potential for further violence is high. Visitors should carry passports at all times as a form of identification.

URBAN AREAS

There is a higher risk of terrorist attacks in urban areas than elsewhere in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Security incidents have occurred in a variety of locations in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Beersheva, Natanya, East and West Jerusalem, and other major population centres. Incidents have occurred in areas frequented by foreigners, many of whom have been killed or injured. For example, the Carmel Market in Tel Aviv and the intersection of Jaffa and King George streets and the adjoining Ben Yehuda Pedestrian Mall in Jerusalem have been targeted in the past. Avoid crowded places and do not use public surface transportation. Canadians visiting urban areas should maintain a high level of vigilance at all times, stay informed about the security situation, monitor local developments, and follow the advice of local authorities.

BORDER AREAS

Avoid high-risk areas in the vicinity of the West Bank and Gaza barriers. The Lebanese border area should also be avoided. There are live landmines in many areas, including the West Bank and along Israel's borders with Lebanon and Syria. Some minefields have not been clearly marked or fenced. Visitors should walk only on established roads or trails. We recommend caution at crossing points between Israel and Jordan.

Terrorist attacks have occurred on Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, near the tourist destination of Eilat, which borders southern Israel. Canadians travelling in this region should maintain a high level of personal security awareness at all times, monitor local developments, and follow the advice of local authorities. For further information on safety and security on the Sinai Peninsula, see our Travel Report for Egypt.

Last Updated: July 13, 2006 11:41 EDT
Still Valid: July 20, 2006 15:30 EDT

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 05:12 PM

The Christian attitude toward armageddon is as nuts as the Islamic notion.

In both scenarios the Jews don't end up in heaven.

It will be just Christians and Muslims. Now that would be cool ;)

but seriously folks the more Isreal tries to outdo Bush and visa versa the worse it will become for the whole planet.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 06:04 PM

And to be fair, here is the travel advisory for Lebanon from the Canadian gorvernment:

LEBANON

"You are advised against all travel to Lebanon due to the events of July 12 in southern Lebanon and the resulting escalation of tensions in the region, including the closure of Beirut International Airport and the ports. Heightened tensions throughout the region and the deteriorating security situation put Canadians at greater risk."

And here is the one for Israel again:

ISRAEL

Canadians travelling to Israel should pay particular attention to current safety and security conditions. Ongoing terrorist activity has resulted in numerous deaths and injuries, and the potential for further violence is high. Visitors should carry passports at all times as a form of identification.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 07:10 PM

C. Ham - You are a very devious person.

There is a travel advisory warning Canadians not to go to Lebanon.

There is also a travel advisory telling Canadians that if they go to Israel...

That is a big difference.

Obviously you haven't travelled much.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 07:24 PM

I am somewhat disturbed by the apparent fact (BBC news tonight) that a British Navy transport, wishing to enter Lebanese water to evacuate British citizens, required Israeli permission. Frankly, any Israeli attack on such a vessel would have been an act of war by Israel against the UK.

I would also draw attention to Kofi Annan's speech of today setting out that the Israeli actions are not justifiable under the international rules of war - and add that his remarks proceed on the over-generous basis that Israel may properly be at war with the Lebanon.

I would like to hear his impending discussion with Condi Rice (a traitor to her gender and race if ever there was one). My belief is that intellectually he can eat her for breakfast.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 07:42 PM

From Canada's

Travel Warnings - Consular Affairs

D) Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against all travel to the specified region(s) of these countries. Canadians in the specified region(s) of these countries should leave.


Indonesia | Israel, the West Bank and Gaza | Russia | Russia - Chechnya |

E) Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against all travel to the specified region(s) of these countries.



Albania | Algeria | Angola | Armenia | Azerbaijan | Burma (Myanmar) | Burundi | Cameroon | Chad | Chile | Colombia | Congo (Kinshasa) | Ecuador | Eritrea | Ethiopia | Georgia | Guinea | Guinea-Bissau | India | Indonesia | Iran | Israel, the West Bank and Gaza | Kenya | Laos | Moldova | Nicaragua | Nigeria | Pakistan | Panama | Papua New Guinea | Peru | Philippines | Sierra Leone | Sri Lanka | Sudan | Thailand | Uganda | Uzbekistan | Venezuela | Yemen | Zambia |


That was effectine July 18, 2006.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 09:41 PM

Here ya go:

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=135000

Read it and you will see that they are quite a bit different.

Lebanon - don't go
Israel - be careful

My question is why are the travel advisories different for Israel than for Gaza and the West Bank?

Obviously, Israel is far more dangerous than a handful of terrorists. At least it seems that Canada is more worried about Israel and the potential for harm than they are about Hezbollah or Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 09:47 PM

I took the advisory to mean, Israel, the West Bank, Gaza as three different places.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 10:16 PM

Anybody noticed how tiny the Gaza strip is on the map? Sort of like an extended ghetto...or a smallish Indian reservation in the USA or Canada.   Israel controls their airspace, Israel controls 3 of their four borders, Israel controls their access to the sea.

It must be a wonderfully secure feeling to be a Palestinian living in Gaza, eh? ;-) I wonder why more people don't want to be there?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 10:18 PM

Look at Isreal and you'll see it's the same, LH. Israel has all her borders controlled by enemies, and only the sea to retreat to.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 10:46 PM

Richard Bridge - 20 Jul 06 - 07:24 PM

Why somewhat disturbed Richard? - I didn't know that you were such a supporter of Gun-Boat Diplomacy. For British Navy Transport read Royal Fleet Auxilliary (totally unarmed). This is the Royal Navy's Merchant Navy, the people that keep the Fleet supplied, the Captain of the ship is primarily responsible under law for the safety of his ship and those onboard. Now apart from being somewhat disturbed Richard what would you have had the man do? He did in fact act prudently considering the situation.

"Frankly, any Israeli attack on such a vessel would have been an act of war by Israel against the UK." No it would not, The UK did not go to war with the Chinese when they fired upon HMS Amethyst, nor did they go to war when the Albanians attacked and sunk a couple of Minesweepers.

Draw attention to Kofi Annan's speach if you like - Now draw our attention to the last time anybody paid any attention to what Kofi Annan says.

"I would like to hear his impending discussion with Condi Rice (a traitor to her gender and race if ever there was one). My belief is that intellectually he can eat her for breakfast."

We are talking about the same chap here are we? Kofi Annan, the protector of Rwanda? The Ditherer of Kosovo? The saviour of Darfur? Believe all you want Richard, nothing will alter this man's track record, it is an appalling catalogue of evasion of responsibility, ineptitude and misjudgement.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:53 PM

Well, at least he can spell "speech".

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:53 AM

Teribus - The U.N. is not a one man show.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 04:09 AM

Additionally, Teribus, the ship was not in actual or claimed Israeli water. It was in Lebanese water (earlier international water). So an Israeli attack on it would most clearly have been an act of war by Israel against the UK - as the German sinking of American vessels (WWII) (and WWI) upon the high seas was an act of war by Germany against the USA. The point I was making was not whether the UK would have declared war upon Israel but that Israel would have carried out an act of war against the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 06:52 AM

True, Peace. They (Israel) are in a very dicey spot...inevitably, under the circumstances...but they are not a subject population with no real power to manage their own land or destiny. Quite the contrary. They are THE regional power that calls the shots and holds the big stick, including a nuclear arsenal.

Their neighbours have more to fear than they do. As Mr Dylan said, "Neighbourhood Bully", indeed.... ;-) (but he was being sarcastic when he said it)

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 08:01 PM

Yeah. Responding to terrorist attacks brings out the worst in the Israelis.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 07:23 AM

Regardless of whose waters the ship was in, and legal nipickings, the Captin was being eminantly sensible.

There are heavily armed Israli warships, which have come under fire. Do you, responsible for the ship and the people you are evacuating, steam on in without thinking, "full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!" style? Or do you make contact with the more powerful millitary force, and generally take all reasonable measure to make sure you're not at the wrong end of an anti-ship missile or two, even if they have no legal right to control navigation in those waters?

I'd rather be cautious, polite, and safer.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 12:16 PM

Three quite different but interesting articles in my opinion:

Fear and loathing in Nazareth

Mahmoud and Rabiah died when a Katyusha rocket struck the city of Nazareth in northern Israel. That they were children is part of the grim reality of war. That they were also Muslims, killed by a Hezbollah rocket, makes the episode a poignant example of the absurdity of this conflict.

Why Israel's reaction is right

The natural reaction to the current violence in the Middle East is one of horror. It's time for a cease-fire, right? Not necessarily. Pacifism would only help the radicals.


Reaping what Bush sowed

Washington's ideological hubris and practical incompetence have succeeded only in setting the region ablaze, awakening extremist and militant voices.

My opinion: Hezbollah (and its puppet masters) has wanted the war since long and at all costs to (foreseeably) mostly Muslim civilians. It only has grasped the golden opportunity. The mild reaction of several Arab states show how angry they are about Hezbollah too.

Israel's stupid overreaction shows that the not ending trickle of Hezbollah rockets and other provocations has unnerved them since long. Their predictable (and hoped for by Hezbollah) reaction is not helpful (even for Israel) in the long run. A stronger government might have stayed calm.

Re the stupid ideas of those who agree with alanabit's embarrassing typo let me quote a wise man:
The sooner we get rid of this nonsense, where what matters is supposed to be where you come from rather than where you live and work, the better.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 12:26 PM

Now to the funny side of the thread.

We had not only alanabit's typo, we also had Bobert's which surely makes the Bobert-modified Saudi proposal unpalatable for the Palestinians and easy to agree with for all the right-wingers in Israel. (seriously: I agree with Bobert that the unmodified Saudi proposal is a good start)

And then we had not only Troll confusing Ebbie with Dianavan, but later Dianavan confusing Arne and Alanabit. So just to save Carol the trouble:

Why is it that so many of the women in the Mudcat think all of the men here are interchangable?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 01:06 PM

Everyone's weird but me and thee, Wolfgang. Right?

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 01:22 PM

Wolfgang - I did not confuse Alanabit with Arne. I made a typo (?)because Arne had addressed his comment to Alanabit. It was an editing error.

You sure go out of your way to put people down.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 02:39 PM

NEWS FLASH!

New symbol and colour needed for Red Cross vehicles. It seems that Israeli pilots have problems seeing red crosses through the red mist.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 12:00 PM

Here is amall step to stop it.
afterall as tom L said if any songs are going to come out of WWIII we better write them now.

Here is a song parody that came to me all at once.
to the tune of Lullaby of Broadway

________________________________________

Lullaby of Bagdad


Peggy:
[Spoken]
I'm sorry I can't work for FOX, politics isn't for me, I'm goin back to Rochester.

Julian:
What did you just say? Rochester
I'm offering you a chance to star in the biggest televised invasion of the middle east
since shock and awe and you say Rotten Chester?

[Singing]
Come on along we'll bomb Iran
like we did in Bagdad
the shock and awe and marching bands
like we had in Bagdad
the rumble of the roadside bombs
the rattle of machine guns
the talking heads
who quote Christ's psalms
will help us earn obscene funds

When a Georgia Guardsman says Goodnight
Its early in the morning
Teenager soldiers don't sleep tight, until the dawn
Good night marine
Good night Bush is on his way.
Sleep tight army
Sleep tight lets call it a day.
watch FOX news who say today we're here to stay.

Ensemble:
Come on along and listen to
The lullaby of Bagdad.
The hidee hi and boopa doo,
The lullaby of Bagdad.
The talking heads shout down the chicks,
And ev'ryone goes crazy.
Fake news and press are our best tricks
Til ev'rything gets hazy.

Hush-a-bye, "You will be just fine,"
You hear a doctor sayin'.
And a trooper shuts her eyes
To sleep all day:
Good night, baby,
Good night, Cheney's on his way.
Sleep tight, baby,
Sleep tight, let's call it a day!
watch FOX news who say today we're here to stay.

Come on along and listen to
The lullaby of Bagdad.
The hip hooray and bally hoo,
The lullaby of Bagdad.
The rumble of roadside bombs,
The rattle of machine guns.
the talking heads who quote Christ's psalms
will help us earn obscene funds

Peggy:
[Spoken]
I'll do it!

Ensemble:
[Cheers!] Fair and Balanced

[Singing]
Come on along-
Come on along and listen to
The lullaby of Bagdad.
The hidee hi and boopa doo,
The lullaby of Bagdad.
The talking heads shout down the chicks,
And ev'ryone goes crazy.
Fake news and press are our best tricks
Til ev'rything gets hazy.
Come on down down we'll spin you round
the ol FOX way.







by donuel

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 12:34 PM

Like It !!!

Subject: RE: BS: WW3, no sign of any effort to stop it
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 12:34 PM

And 100