Hot concertina blues

Subject: Hot concertina blues
From: GUEST,Sheepish squeezer's wife
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:11 AM

He's spent all morning trying to work out which order to glue the reeds back in after leaving it all day in a hot car.

"If you can't be a good example, you'll have to be a dreadful warning"!

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:38 AM

Does this help?

Note particulary: specialized teams of double-jointed, cross-eyed workers use miles of concertina wire in the construction of a single concertina, which can take years, cost thousands, and destroy worlds

Or more usefully, this .

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: IanC
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:58 AM

Can I help? Or would he prefer to buy a nice old Lachenal ... doesn't have wax or glue at all.

:-)

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 12:30 AM

Years ago, when the National was first held in Alice Springs, lots of people from the temperate climes of southern Australia ventured into the great outback with their instruments, with no understanding of what heat could do to them. Almost every accordion ended up with a few reeds clattering around inside, some wooden flutes developed cracks and the occasional concertina reed frame slid out of its slot.

Most of the concertinas were easily fixed as not many of the frames could fall away from the pan. Accordions provided more of a challenge, as the reed's pitch away from the block can differ from its pitch when in position. Thankfully most are marked. Providing you could tell which reed was which when you found it among the bellows folds in the accordion, all you had to do was ensure no loose wax was able to fly around, put the frame in place on its block and apply a warmed table-knife blade to remelt the wax. None of them got hot enough to melt the animal glues/resorcinol/etc that attached wooden parts or bellows parts to each other.

Another folkie visiting the Longford festival in Tassie was not so lucky. He left his fiddle (in its nice black case) on the parcel shelf under the rear window of his car for a couple of hours. It had been in tune when he left it in the car in the sun but, when he next opened the case, he found he had acquired a complete fiddle kit.

I used to be a photographer and learned never to leave a camera (lots of black) or a camera case (usually black) in the sun, not even in the Antarctic. When I got a robust stage case made for my concer I made sure it was rather reflective. But I still don't let the heat get to it for just the reason you mention.
Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: GUEST,CB
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 12:34 AM

I recently went busking on a hot day and had problems with what I thought was air escaping. Surprisingly it was fixed with a piece of wool between the wooden ends....thankyou to Ormonde WAters for helping me locate this problem.

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 07:33 AM

Not the Dipper, I hope....

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 11:25 AM

When did reeds start getting glued in? Usually they get slid into slots in their carriers. I have found that white glue works well for reattaching pads.

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: Mo the caller
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 06:58 PM

I think the carriers and everything were all rattling around inside. And none of the reeds marked to say which was which.

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: Lady Hillary
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 08:47 PM

EBarnacle here, Get a very accurate ruler. The longer the reed, the deeper the note. Look at the underside of the valve plate and push the lowest button. The hole that opens up is your lowest note. Keep going until you have figured out where each pair of reeds goes. Go for it.

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 03:21 AM

When EBarnacle asked "When did reeds start getting glued in?" I got the impression that s/he had experienced only "good" concertinas. My first Anglo was an Italian job, white perloid laminex and 20 big black accordion buttons on the outside, with accordion reed frames attached (with wax) to reed blocks exactly as in accordions. Some wouldn't dignify it with the term "concertina" but it got me styarted and there are a few of them around.

But you're right, I've never heard of reeds being "glued" into place.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: Mo the caller
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:26 PM

Maybe it was wax. Not sure if it still is! Does it matter?

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 12:49 AM

When restoring/repairing instruments or, indeed, anything of value, the best advice is to do nothing that is irreversible and to minimise the nature of your actions to only 'what is required'. Wax used for mouting reeds is a high-melting-point wax. The melting pt is sufficiently high that it stays solid in the sorts of routine temperatures the instrument is likely to be exposed when it is being "cared for" while playing and being stored. To remove a reed frame from the block needs only a warmed blade to be run around the joint. It doesn't even need to be particularly sharp as there is no need for mechanical action, only thermal action. Ditto when replacing the reed frames on the block(s).

Applying glue when the original medium was wax is unnecessarily aggressive and likely to be ineffective unless the glue is compatible with the wax that has penetrated into the timber of the blocks. Most glues that would be efffective would be far too aggressive (in that they're likely to be that much more difficult to reverse) for what is required.

I hope this helps.

Cheers, Rowan.

Subject: RE: Hot concertina blues
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 01:11 AM

G'day, GUEST,Sheepish squeezer's wife,

Had the reeds popped out after sharp handling (well ... being firmly dropped ...) you could match up each reed plate's position and orientation by carefully matching patterns of wax still on the frame and wax sticking to the reedplate. Then, with a combination of luck and care, you might be able to wax them back into place with Rowan's hot blade. (I would favour the handle end of an old-fashioned EPNS (soup?) spoon ... one of those with a heavy end to give you a firm steady grip.) This gives you a lot more stored heat, to allow a firm (re-)attachment. If too much wax had gone astray, you might need to 'top it up' on one of the surfaces too assure a good seal.

Unfortunately, if the wax has got so hot it completely melted this evidence may have melted with it. The ruler measurement suggested by EBarnacle (under Lady Hillary's log-in!) is not accurate enough to identify the reed-plates - pitch is determined by more tuning factors that mere length.

The best bet is to rig up a wind source (from a bellows or from the exit of a vacuum cleaner) to a slot over which individual reeds may be sounded. (The reed should be blown from the side away from the leather / plastic valve.) A cheap tuning meter (full-scale, not a guitar EAdgbe model) should give you enough identification to work out which pair ... from which row ... and the up and down sides. (Well, it might need someone who knows the exact layout ... if you are an "ear-player".)

Once you have a convincing order partly confirmed by a tidy progression of reed-plate sizes - or reed lengths) you should be safe to start re-waxing the reedplates in!

Have fun (and keep the box away from all sources of heat!

Regards,

Bob