Why sing harmony?

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:02 AM

The reason to sing harmonies is to bring overtones to the vocal ensembles. These overtones are felt often rather than heard and create a sense of harmonious feelings in the listener. For those that are sensitive to music, they create excitement in their use in a vocal ensemble. They express dynamics(louds and softs)which add to the dimension of a song emotionally. For one who is more sophisticated in music, unison singing all the way through a song can be boring. Harmonies are a way to express musical ideas that may enhance the text of a song.

To avoid harmonies in sea chanteys seems to me to be academically rigid. It seems to me that on shipboard, men engaged in hard labor would find relief in the music by instituting harmonies.

Shipboard recordings while men are working would be hard to do. When ashore,actual sailors would have to be counted on to provide information as to what happens when they are using chanteys for work.

Frank

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:09 PM

I spent yesterday at El Greko's, recording harmonies for Les Sullivan's next CD. I enjoyed the singing, just hope others will enjoy listening (and joining in if they feel like it!)

Kitty

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Saro
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:15 PM

Kitty, I'm sure they will!
Sarah

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:01 PM

Frank

Exactly! Overtones is(/are) what I meant earlier by being "invisible but not inaudible".

Regards

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:46 PM

Why sing harmony?
Why sing?
For me the answer to each contains much the same elements; "because I can", "because it feels good", "because it seems to create good results", "because others like it" are all parts of the answers. Almost all of the posts above have said the relevant bits better than I but there are some experiences I have been reminded of by a few of the posts.

Some songs, for me, cry out for multiple voices. They might sound terrific sung solo and might sound terrific, but different, if accompanied by instruments. A small group may sing them with transcendental effect and a massed choir have a similarly transforming effect but by different means. I've been fortunate to have experienced all of these, in a wide variety of settings. Sorry for the pun.

Most of the people who've posted here seem to share lots of experience and bring that experience to bear in their comments but every now and then you realise you're in the company of newcomers or people who have a different view of the things you've taken for granted. Sometimes this opens your eyes and sometimes you just want to close your ears. Learning to take the bad with the good is an ongoing process although I confess to trying to encourage beginners with (hopefully) helpful advice.

The ones that are difficult are those people who don't seem to 'hear' the way we'd like them to. Like the 'hippies' (for want of a better term) for whom structure seemed to be anathema and, whenever you started on a song or a tune, regarded this as an invitation to improvise harmonies. Sigh! Often such people would turn up at a woolshed (or "bush") dance where the evening would be full of traditional dances (couples, long sets, quadrilles, circles etc) and they'd want to do their free-form imitations of Isidora Duncan. As an MC I could usually be successful in getting them to keep such efforts to the back of the hall and out of the way of the sets. Singing sessions (and tune sessions) required more diplomacy.

Over the years some of the 'hippies' picked up the skills of dealing with structure and turned their improvisation skills to good use with great harmony but I'm not sure they were aware of the forbearance that was required. I'm certainly not going to remind them. I'm just pleased they're keeping the harmonies going.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:11 AM

Rowan,

A fiddler friend of mine still uses the term "hippie dancing" to refer to the phenomenon you describe. It is still happening today, long after the disappearance of the hippies.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 05:47 AM

A question which never occurred to me. I do it because I enjoy it in company, and it gives fuller sound.
A little experience and practising is needed, of course.
In Germany we have a folk tradition in harmony: The Handmaidens' Third. The harmony is paralleling the tune with a third higher, or a fourth, if a third sounds unharmonic.
Peasant girls working as handmaidens in the towns used it when working and singing together their old songs, and a wonderful sound it is, indeed, when young fresh girls sing about love.
In Iceland the parallels were in the fifth in times of old.

Now I'm compelled to sing harmonies in church because the songs are to high for me. When I know the bass part I sing it - or I have to go an octava down.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,IBO
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 01:36 PM

BECAUSE IT ENHANCES THE MUSIC ENORMOUSLY.FOR A GUITARIST LIKE MYSELF IT IS NATURAL TO WANT TO HEAR VOICES BLEND LIKE THE STRINGS.I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY SOME VOCALISTS HAVE DIFFICULTY WITH HARMONIES.THEY MUST HAVE A HEARING PROBLEM.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 03:24 PM

Guest IBO,
I can see why people have trouble with harmonies. It took me a long time to be able to hear harmonies, but when it came it was a quantum leap. One day I couldn't do it and then I could. I still have trouble hearing what bluegrass singers call "baritone", the fifth interval. The "tenor" or third is what comes to me. I have to memorize the baritone if I want to sing it.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: MMario
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 03:30 PM

Guest IBO shouted: CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY SOME VOCALISTS HAVE DIFFICULTY WITH HARMONIES.THEY MUST HAVE A HEARING PROBLEM.

?? how does that follow - I can *HEAR* harmonies perfectly well. I can even (for an individual note) usually *SING* a member of the chord that is appropriate. What I cannot do is instinctively select harmononic notes consecutivly that blend individually and make sense in regards to the melody line. That isn't a hearing problem.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,IBO
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 03:30 PM

SORRY JIM,I WASNT BEING CLEVER,MAYBE THE FACT THAT I PLAY GUITAR AND BANJO HAS HELPED ME WITH HARMONIES.I CANT UNDERSTAND TWO SINGERS,AND I HAVE SEEN THIS MANY TIMES,SINGING THE EXACT SAME MELODY.SURELY ONE VOICE WOULD DO.REMEMBER BACCARA,YES SIR I CAN BOOGIE?

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: jack halyard
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 04:23 PM

I agree that a sing in which great harmony happens is one of lifes glorious moments. However, another aspect of harmony for a songwriter is that it defines the emotional intent of a song. Just the basic difference between minor and major can darken or lighten a passage.
I tend to sing a melodic sort of harmony line rather than block chords, so that the part shifts through interesting clashes or unexpected chords until it arrives at the expected chord.

Songs like "Anderson's Coast" have recognisable harmonies implied in them, and I tend to write choruses in this way because I've had some great times in singing sessions and want to hear my own songs given that treatment. For those of you who have heard the flood sequence in "Yarri of Wiradjuri", however, I've used a fairly strange sort of "Beyond modal"line that I deliberately intended to create a mood of dark menace.
While it's in shanty form, I'm not sure it's something that folk's will sing in the pub. Good 'ealth! Jack Halyard

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: chrisgl
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 04:52 PM

Joe Offer said > Christina was trying to sing in the wrong range

This is brilliant. I've always believed that most everyone can sing and it's kind of come home to roost with my daughter's boyfriend who has always been told he cannot sing... Having heard his speaking voice (!) I strongly beileve this isn't the case and Joe's comment accords with what I've been thinking. Great! Thank you.

To bring me back on thread, _part_ of singing harmony must be due to a mismatch of vocal range which a creative person will turn to the good. _Then_ you uncover the emotional impact it can have on a song or tune.

But to be done properly the harmonist (?) must be sensitive to the song. The harmony must enhance not swamp - else, surely it isn't harmony any longer, just a not very good tune ;)

chris :-)

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 05:52 PM

Back in July 'Marje' wrote:

"I'm not convinced that there is no real tradition of harmony singing in the UK.

I know Vaughan Williams declared that the English tradition was a single melody line, not harmonised, but he happened to collect most of his songs from individual, mostly elderly people singing solo in their homes."

I suspect that if there had been a 'real tradition of harmony singing in the UK' that Vaughan Williams would have noticed (and noted) that those 'elderly people' (Henry Burstow, Harriet & Peter Verrall, James Carter etc., etc.) had a tendency to turn everything into a grim and mournful dirge - much as many modern, harmony-loving folk club singers/audiences tend to. Instead those elderly people left us a glorious legacy of (single line) tunes which are often, in my opinion, ruined by attempts to harmonise them.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Forsh
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 06:41 PM

I can't do it, I try, but I just aint any good at it. I prefer to mouth the words and listen to others, It feels kinda spiritually uplifting, makes me feel good, and it sounds great when done well! Old Forsh was great with his mates in Rumbylowe.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 07:25 PM

Alan Forshaw was great when he sang, whether with anybody or everybody.

Cheer, Rowan

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,IBO
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 07:28 PM

MAY THE FORSH BE WITH YOU

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 03:14 AM

I have difficulty catching onto harmonies, and I wonder if it could be due to my hearing problem. I have a hearing loss which makes me unable to distinguish voices in a crowd, and all I hear is a din unless everybody is saying or singing the same thing. Sometimes, I can't even tell if people are singing harmony. I can pick up the melody of songs very quickly, but I have lots of trouble with harmonies and usually lapse back to the melody.
I think I'm pretty good singing melody, but maybe not...
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 04:12 AM

I'm a harmony slut. The minute I hear a melody I automatically and instinctively (and Nessie will say, sometimes embarrassingly, i.e. when a main guest is singing) I start harmonising under my breath. I've always done it. At the age of 7 I remember being taught in class a 2-part kiddies' song and asking the teacher if I could do the "third part" which I could hear in my head.

I don't know why I do it, or "how can I keep from harmonising" as it were. It's an affliction. Thankfully at Herga there are at least 3-4 others similarly afflicted (your secret is safe with me Kitty, Mike, George C...) so I can hide in the crowd.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 04:50 AM

Since my previous message I have been to Sidmouth folk week where I did some shape note singing from the Sacred Harp, and some West gallery music.

I went along to the workshops more in hope than with any great expectation of being able to join in.

I was quite surprised to be able to fit into the Altos, and to find I actually enjoyed the music if not the words.

The Sacred Harp harmonies can be powerful but rather wild. I do not know the musical terms to describe how they are related, but some are more outlaws than inlaws by comparison with the sounds I am used to, which are the uncontrived sound of folk club choruses.

Having sung with Altos I find that their part is written in the upper part of my range, and that many people think I sing too low for a woman. I know I could sing lower than the teenagers in the rock band I was associated with, but I assume that men's voices start higher then expand and deepen with age, and bulk.

I am much with the sentiments of

'Let every man so pitch his song
To help his neighbour sing along.
To each and all contentment bring
When all men sing.'

If it is the melody or a harmony, it is the singing together which creates something more than the sum of the parts

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: ositojuanito
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 05:16 AM

it's nice to double track a self-harmony, or is that not Folk Music?

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: MMario
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 08:14 AM

Harmony is one of the things that stuns me about various folk gatherings I have attended - and most especially the Getaway weekend. To hear people listen to a new or "new to them" song and by the second chorus or verse they are harmonizing - beautifully!

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,The Tasman
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 09:08 AM

The men of The Abartobonga tribe in Tsueli, Africa can harmonise with themselves. How`s that for flash?

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: chrisgl
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 02:36 PM

Joe Offer said > I have difficulty catching onto harmonies, and I wonder if it could be due to my hearing problem.

My wife is deaf in one ear and is unable to hear properly in crowded situations, parties and such. But she tells me she _can_ hear most harmonies (tho' not to be able to work out who is singing what - that's a stereo hearing thing)

How are you with a mono radio and harmonic singing on it?

I can hear harmony but can't usually whip up something ad lib, as it were. Sometimes I can hear something but simply can't match the notes myself. It's wierd. Not to say annoying!

I suspect it's all a function of the brain and so some can ond others can't with several degrees in between

I wonder if it's something that can be taught?


chris :-)

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Abuwood
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 03:38 AM

Interesting thread - I agree I go for harmony most times for voice preservation and I think idleness in not learning the correct tune but finding something that fits. Like Pap, I can often sing along with the singer using a harmony - what is the correct folk etiquette for this?

I guess this is why I hate amplifed music so much. I love to sing next to others singing harmony and vary the harmony to chase the 'gaps' in the music, when you hit the right chord it stands the hair up on the back of your neck!

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Carol
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 03:59 AM

Sorry but I sometimes find harmonies too contrived and not very melodic, I can think of a few performers who I prefer singing solo rather than together in 'harmony'. It does not always 'add' to a song, just as songs do not always benefit from a guitar accompaniment.

As an unaccompanied singer I'm probably very, very, biased, but my most admired singers are/were Cockersdale, Beggars Velvet and then we go on to the 'single' singers like Stan Rogers/ Carolyn Robson etc., so I reckon I like a mixture!

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 04:11 AM

I'm with El Greko. I just can't help it! I sang in choirs from the age of 8, boy soprano (treble) at first and I soon loved to do those descant harmonies. Later as my voice broke I migrated through tenor to bass in choral work but naturally I'm in between (baritone). That sometimes gives me a problem singing along the melody line with many performers, so I just lapse into harmony quite naturally. Normally, by the second chorus of a song I'm hearing for the first time I'm away, and humming a harmony under my breath during the verse!

Having come back to folk music as a solo performer about 4 years ago, for the last 2 I've been singing in a duo with Christine Connolley (Moses here) and we fight over who will sing the harmony almost every time we learn a new song!

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Singing Referee
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:54 AM

That was me!

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 01:32 AM

I'm with George - but from childhood and choirs, I can also instinctively do 'counterpoint bassline' and well as 'instinctive harmony' - which is why I prefer ensemble work rather than solo - except as an instrumentalist!

My 'natural' instrument is pipe organ...

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: stallion
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:41 AM

Last night I had my bottom metaphorically smacked by Martin, after one song he leaned over and whispered in my ear " you should really only resolve the minor chord at the very end of the song" Que? I just sing, in mitigation it was in a very noisy session in a very noisy pub and no one was bothering to pitch any song with an instrument, recipe for strained vocal chords!

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Marje
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 12:14 PM

Thank you, George (up thataway somewhere) for reassuring me that I'm not alone. As someone else suggested further back, for me each note has a set of related notes just hanging there in the air around it and just asking to be sung. I do have to know the tune first, though, and will always sing or hum the tune through first if it's not totally familiar to me. And when harmonies start I don't ignore the tune - I can hear both or several parts going on at once, just like seeing two or three colours at once.

For us it's not a case of how or why to do it, the hard thing is how to not do it when it isn't appropriate. Harmonisers Anonymous, that's us. Well, not so anonymous really because we give ourselves away all the time.

Marje

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 03:45 PM

GuestIBO wrote:

"I CANT UNDERSTAND TWO SINGERS, AND I HAVE SEEN THIS MANY TIMES, SINGING THE EXACT SAME MELODY. SURELY ONE VOICE WOULD DO."

There's a lot to be said for unison singing, too -- maybe that's for another thread. There are some fine examples in the tradition and revival (that I'm afraid I can't lay my hands on at the moment since I'm at work).

Variety... something about spice... life... y'know what I mean?

~ Becky in Tucson


[IBO - I know you've got shift-lock problems, but it's apparent you could add spaces to your punctuation. Given the way the all caps make everything look the same, attention to spacing would be appreciated! :-) ]

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:56 AM

To avoid harmonies in sea chanteys seems to me to be academically rigid. It seems to me that on shipboard, men engaged in hard labor would find relief in the music by instituting harmonies.


Amen, brother! It seems obvious to me that, throughout history just as today, there have always been people who love to sing harmony and have done so, blissfully ignorant of any folk-establishment "rules" regulating what notes they may or may not have been allowed to sing.

I firmly believe that various individuals involved in group singing, in church or at work, onshore or at sea, have often contributed inadvertant harmonies, as well as technically dissonant accents, while other individuals have sung straight melodies, strict thirds and/or fifths, etc. When the overall group sound is an expression of shared joy (or, at least, satisfaction, in the case of work songs), it all sounds good to me.

I enjoy improvising harmonies, often do it quite well, but also sometimes miss badly. So what? I do, of course, restrain myself in obvious "performance" situations where group participation is not welcome, especially when the performer is working in a hushed environment. With loud, highly amplified music, especially outdoors, I feel completely free to sound off if and when the spirit moves me.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,Steve-Cooperator
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 06:25 AM

There are good harmonies; there are bad harmonies. Unless one if an exceptional singer, that means knowing the proper tune, listening to the lead line, staying in time and staying sober... I have been to sessions where attempts at harmonising resemble more a cacophony.
Also while harmonising can lead to a pleasant sound, it is often at the expense of the power and driving force behind the rhythms (YT were the exeception rather than the rule here)which is why I feel shanties lose a lot when they are harmoniesed.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 06:29 PM

Steve - what do you mean by good and bad harmonies? Chordal or dissonant? Gutsy or twee? I thought shanties sung in harmony by Jim and Johnny, the Keelers and the Wilsons (yes, I know there are overlaps in these combinations) were pretty oomphy and OK.

And I'm not into purity of tunes, because it quite often seems natural to modulate into harmony alternatives.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 12:38 PM

why not. 1.if your harmonies do not fit with the booked guest artists.2 if you are tone deaf.3 if you have no sense of rhythm.4 if you are completely drunk and unable to walk straight, you might think you can still sing in harmony   but probably cant.
to kitty,
this talk of modulating into harmony alternatives, might be alright but modulating generally refers to changing keys,could be dodgy, if the other singer stays in the original key and you modulate to another.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: closet-folkie
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 01:28 PM

I'm with George here, and it might be a good time to ask him if he'd mind me nicking "Harmony Sluts" for a band name!

Steve Robinson

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,Steve-Cooperator
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 03:23 PM

I'm not really referring to harmonies beibg bad bad to bad harmonising.

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:15 PM

The real question, as far as I'm concerned, is:

Why sing in unison? (Why bother?)

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 01:21 AM

For the unity, PoppaG.

~ B in T

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:12 AM

tosteve.
in my opinion,because two people are singing two different notes,I cant see why they cant do it ryhthmically.
It probably means they should do some breathing and diaphragm exercises, so they can sing with more attack.
unfortunately some shanty groups are failed solo singers who think of safety in numbers,rather than examining and correcting faults in their own singing .

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:50 AM

Why I become a harmony singer is the way many people do - be the younger sibling in a family act!

There is something quite compelling about hearing two or more siblings sing in harmony. Since I was 4 years younger than my sister who was quite the 'STAR' of our family, I was relagated to Harmony and back-up guitar. Oddly enough, I turned out to have a much greater vocal range in the end. My sister is a true Alto (and a good one I might add) with my natural range used to be soprano before I iniured my voice trying to perform in a difficult Opera. (The Pariahs by Leonard Kastle). Now I'm a Mezzo.

Anyway - instead of getting all depressed about always being the harmony singer, I found it made me a better singer overall to have to conform to someone else's phrasing and learn to anticipate their improvisations. It becomes second nature after a while and you can do it with just aboit anybody although there are always partners you prefer for whatever reason.

A good harmony singer doesn't strive to be heard or noticed, only to augment the lead performerance, providing depth when it's called for or delicacy when appropriate. I prefer not to sing every line in harmony when singing with a strong partner. There are, however, some songs that lend themselves nicely to being sung with two parts all the way through and those are wonderful. Any of the Louvin brothers repetoire for example.

There are some real standout harmony singers who do the things I describe above. Off hand I can only think of Cheryl White at the moment. Vince Gill, when he wants to can also disappear into a harmony part. I don't recall the name of Buck Owens' late haromny singer, but he too was one of those heavenly match ups.

I never used to like to show off when singing harmony with my sister but because of her limited upper range, she often pushed me to sing her through a key change or upward chord progression in certain songs. I considered that to be a bit too much but she still expects it when we sing together. old habits die hard I suppose. In our singing relationship, she'll always be the boss.

Sadly, I have no one to sing harmony with anymore. Once a harmoniser always a harmoniser! I hear the harmonies instinctively when listening to music that cries out for it here and there and I'll often sing it along with a record.

Anyone know any Los Angeles area folkies in need of a harmony singer - send them my way!

Subject: RE: Why sing harmony?
From: GUEST,jacko
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 05:44 PM

Hello mudcats...I am a trombone player and singer,
and have done some studying about 'perfect' intonation,
ie a C sung in a G chord will not be the exact same C, intonation
wise, as a C sung in a F chord for instance.....(it may be just
a few hertz sharper or flatter.....and that good singers tend to
hear this intuitively and maximize their harmonies for these chordal
changes...when these harmonies are maximized, the overtones created are vastly increased, and the music really opens up.....so,
to me harmonizing 'perfectly' is just another stairway to heaven.....
jackie the trombone player.....
www.jackiesauriol.com