Real Ale v Lager

Subject: Real Ale v Lager
From: Jeff Beck
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:32 AM

Why do people who drink real ale walk (or stagger) around thinking they are superior to people who drink lager?

I'm posting this on a folk forum because there seems to be a huge % of real alers in that community.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:51 AM

Basement please

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:56 AM

Huuumm...definitions, please. Is this a case of transoceanic language usage? In the US, ale and lager refer to different types of brewing. That is, lager is a type of beer that is normally bottom-fermented and cold-cured and ale (sometimes claimed not to really be beer at all) is top-fermented. We usually don't use the term "real ale" at all, but generally understand it to be equivalent to what we call "craft-brewed," without such nasty additives as sugar, rice, preservatives and rat droppings.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:05 AM

you're lucky.. !!??

..Why do people who drink real ale & lager walk (or stagger) around thinking they are superior to people who drink cider !!!!?????


..and best not even mention supercillious pseudo-toff wine snobs!!!


all together now .. lets celebrate and sing out loud

the joys of Folk musics real natural pressed thirst quenching wassailing apple nectar..



"God gave PunkFolkRock 'n' Cider to you" [Argent/Kiss..arr: punkfolkrocker]

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:14 AM

Why do people ask silly rhetorical questions? The answer of course, is that most ale drinkers DON'T think themselves superior...they think ale is superior.

(for a reason....ales 'usually' has more distinctive flavors and variety than lager)

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:16 AM

Because Jeff, here in the UK unless you are lucky enough to get some traditionaly brewed lager all you get is that tasteless pap made in a factory [ not a brewery ] by the multinationals,sterilised to death and deliberately served ultra cold so you can't tell how shite it tastes, whereas ' real ale ' is [ generally ] produced in a brewery, using only natural ingrediants and delivered to your local pub still alive, ie the yeast still working.

eric

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:24 AM

Ale does NOT by definition have more distinctive flavor. There is a perception that it does, but I have had ales that taste like swill and lagers that are very complex.

As Eric has pointed out, lager has been closely associated with the multinational crap (can you say Budweiser?) and now everyone thinks that is how a lager is supposed to taste.   There are many craft brewers here in the U.S. that make very interesting lagers, and they are not meant to be served ice cold.

"Real Ale" has become another stereotyped term and those behind the folly are doing the same type of marketing that Budweiser does - create an image and "educate" the ignorant as to what they think they are drinking.

Ron

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:46 AM

I didn't SAY "by definition", Ron...I said 'usually'....and I stand by that. I, too, have had lagers with nice qualities, but they are harder to find, and I can count them on one hand. I'd need a whole page to list the 'good' ales with distinctive flavors that make me want more.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:03 AM

Real ale (cask-conditioned ale) has taste and needs careful cellaring to get the best out of it. The skills of the cellarer has an important effect on its final taste.

Lager generally means ice-cold, factory produced garbage, very much over-priced and sent to the pub in sealed metal dustbins. The cellarer has little effect on its taste since it is brewed to a lowest common denominater and offends no-one.

And yes there are some great lagers, generally brewed abroad and served in bottles. Mass produced lager is served cold to distinguish it from gnat's piss.

Much the same applies to Guinness but there are many myths about Guinness so it is hard to convince people it is no better than lager.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:04 AM

I understand what you said Bill, but if you read the tone of some of these posts as well as a general feeling that most(but not all) "real ale" drinkers have, the definition that they follow becomes apparent.

I could also give you a whole page of lagers, and I am sure that if we compare notes we could have a wonderful session!

The bottom line is, people tend to gravitate to a style that they enjoy. If you developed a taste for ale, you will probably find lagers not to your liking.

In reality, lagers are more difficult to brew. Temperature control becomes more of a factor, and off-tastes are easier to develop if not brewed correctly. As Eric pointed out, they are often served ultra-cold as a way of masking the taste, or lack of.

The glorious thing about beer is that is complex, more complex then wine. With wine you crush grapes and sit back and let the fermenting begin. Beer involves add the precise amount of grains and hops and then maintaining strict timing and temperature during the brewing process. The amount of flavors in beer is much higher than that of wine.

Okay, it is only 11am but now I am thirsty!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:03 PM

well, as I posted in a different thread..Creemore Springs lager makes the effort to find it worthwhile!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:11 PM

I see Creemore Springs every time I go into the beer store and don't think I've ever sampled it, Bill, but will do so, on your recommendation, the next time.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:17 PM

Well, to go back to Mr Beck's (unfortunate name that, considering the question) query, its not QUITE as you ask. Its more that rather than considering themselves superior because of drinking real ale, they drink real ale because THEY are superior to those who'll settle for pissy, factory-made Eurofizz lager.

It really DOES come down to the Lager-Lout culture, of those who are afraid to be dfferent to their mates, by not drinking the same as them.

Damn, I could do with a pint now...long overdue too, I'd say!

...& as for the name Beck (not Becks, I know!) the fact its 'Jeff Beck' is a major saving grace! (& even on a Folky forum, I reckon most people are sufficiently eclectic to know of The Great Man!)

There you are Jeff...your question answered, AND basking in the reflected glory of an Icon!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:37 PM

A GENUINE quote from a policeman at a small village festival when I commented that he must hate pulling duty lie that - " No mate ! We LOVE it - Folk and Jazz people drink LOTS of real ale and stay happy - Rock festivals , they have two pints of lager and want a fight ! "

Nuff Said

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: skipy
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:42 PM

simple answer - because they are!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:51 PM

Wow. Some of you really bought into it. If you truly had "real lager" you would be singing a different tune. What I am reading is that some of you have become convinced that there is something called "real ale" that makes it superior. Folks, it is just a matter of process and yeast, and ales AND lagers do not have to come out as pasturized swill. Lagers are more complex then you give it credit for. Unfortunately, some of you can only think in terms of LAGER=BUDWEISER(or insert the name of a multi-national brew here). It is NOT the case!

The swill they serve at rock concerts is not "real lager".

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:01 PM

Fair enough Ron, fair enough.

It seems the Lagers you are talking about are, like Real Ale, 'hand-crafted' by artisans, rather than mass produced on a production line by mechanical &/or flesh-&-blood cogs in a machine.

If you came over to the UK, you would see that we are saying pretty much the same thing about OUR real ale as you are saying about YOUR lager.

We arent any of us here slagging off lager JUST BECAUSE its lager, but because its CRAP lager.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:02 PM

...you'll here just as much grumbling over here about naff beer as about naff lager, believe me.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:04 PM

I think it is you miss-reading Ron. Most, if not all of us are aware there is "real lager". It is rarely found in UK pubs.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:28 PM

My apologies if I am mis-reading. I am sorry it is not produced in the UK, but I am betting that you have enjoyed some lagers without realizing it.   Lager technically means "to lay down". It is a method of fermenting beers at cool temperatures. The byproduct of this process is that it actually helps stablize the beer. While it normally takes longer for a lager to be produced, the mass brewers discoverd that adding rice or corn would speed up the process, which also created some of the beers that have given the term such a bad name.

Oktoberfest beers are lagers. Oktoberfest and Marzen beers are sometimes ranked in with Vienna-style lagers. They are sweeter with a nice malty flavor. You can also have dark lagers, and I would highly recommend Germany's Ayinger if you can get your hands on one.

Pilsner, which includes Budweiser, is a process that was developed ito produce clear and golden brews. This is the style that has been corrupted to meet the taste buds of the most drinkers, people who respond to advertisement more than taste.

One question, I have heard that most UK pubs only carry one brand. I hope that is not the case.   I was told that pubs usually are owned by the brewers and they will sell their own brand.   Please tell me that is not true. I can't think of a duller way to spend an evening at a bar then to be forced to drink only one style of beer.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:29 PM

By the way, don't get me wrong. I LOVE ale. I just can't say that I enjoy it more than any other style. It is like being forced to pick a favorite child.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:39 PM

So then, when UKers say "lager," what they mean is really the Bud/Coors/Labatts/Corona/Miller crap rather than a beer produced by the lagering method? OK...another one for transatlantic incomprehension.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:56 PM

Usualy art, yes, although names would include Fosters, Carling, etc. and not (that I've seen) a couple of the names you mentioned.

I honestely do not know about UK "real larger" production but typically in a UK pub, where you will normally find one or more real ales, you will only find the mass produced lagers.

The only pub I use on a fairly regular basis that sells another type of lager is one in Norwich (20 odd miles from me) I go to for a session. That one as well as a selection of real ales which include a couple it brews also has a few Belgian lagers available. I must admit I have yet to try one of these but I am told they are excellent.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:03 PM

Jon, one of my better memories is sitting in a pub in Doolin, Ireland, drinking Smithwicks (while the rest of the Americans drank Guinness) and being amazed that the locals were drinking Bud.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:24 PM

I am definitely a real ale drinker, but I want to add to what Ron said earlier.
The original Budweiser comes from Ceske Budejovice in Bohemia. I can't recall whether it is in the Czech Republic or in Slovakia nowadays. At any rate, it is slightly to the east of Bayreuth and to the north of Upper Austria. The German name for the city is Budweis -hence the name. I recall saying to a German that I really liked orginal Budweiser, which you can occasionally get in cask form in Germany. I said it was one of the best Pils I had ever tasted. I was quickly corrected and told that it was a lager. Up to then, I had never thought of lager as being the tasty, mature drink, which Budweiser, for example, is. (All beer drinkers will quickly realise that I am not talking about the mass produced American product.)
I would rather not drink anything at all than the sugary, plastic tasting "lagers" in the UK. If you drop into Köln though, I will happily take you down to Schwejk in the Altstadt for a glass of a prince among beers. Good beer is good beer. I won't drink rubbish German beers and I won't drink English rubbish either. Making beer is like anything else. You can do it badly or you can do it well. No country has a monopoly on good beer, any more than it has a monopoly on good music.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:27 PM

When you compare Budvar and Budwieser, allegedly the same style of beer then you begin to realise what a catchall name lager is.
I can drink the Chekoslovack style lager/pilsner beers till the cows come home, but Carling Harp and Tennant's, and other big brewers lagers made in the UK are crap, and give me a bad stomach.
I like a proper hand made bitter like Fiddlers Elbow, or Wychwood, of the draught beers I like Youngs Special,and Courage Directors amomg others, with my favourite being Gale's HSB.
However, to sum up, Lager is a good beer but not well done outside Eorope, and good British bitter beer with malt and hops in the right proportions takes a lot of beating.
Giok

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:35 PM

Giok, come to Albuquerque and I'll take you down to the local brewpub for a pint of good lager!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:41 PM

One question, I have heard that most UK pubs only carry one brand. I hope that is not the case.   I was told that pubs usually are owned by the brewers and they will sell their own brand.

Most pubs in the UK are owned by breweries or by (I don't know what you call them) "property groups" (they don;t brew but own pubs) such as Punch Houses may be managed (employed by the brewery), tenancy or leases (not quite sure on the difference there). I think there is a law requiring a tied pub to have a "guest beer" but the choices can be limited and publicans usualy compelled to buy from within the group. Where I am, in North Norfok, Punch seem to be the biggest player.

We also do have "Free Houses" who don't have these restrictions but they are less common. Free Houses btw often have an advantage over ones that are tied when it comes to pruchasing beer BTW. It may sound odd but lets say you had a tied "Tetley" pub and I had a Free House, you could well find I could buy "your" brew cheaper than you can.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:18 PM

Any one who has spent time AND money in Nothern Europe will know that there are a wealth of pale lager type beers from Belgium , Holland and Germasny which APPEAR to be lagers , but are in fact GOOD Beer !
Every now and then you MAY find a pub in UK selling the REAL thing (At Exhorbitant prices) which make your Fosters , Carling , etc taste like the crap they are .
By the same token there are a lot of VERY drinkable Non lager type beers in our long lost colonies of the North Americas ! Adams in Boston is one I have enjoyed !

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: HuwG
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:21 PM

I work behind a bar at present. GUEST,Jon is perfectly correct; tied houses are more restricted in the range of bitter beers they sell and at the same time more expensive than Free Houses.

Judging by comments in this thread and others, and books by Bill Bryson et al. both British and American suppliers are up against a bleating, I'll drink it because everybody else does, follow-my-leader attitude. That is why a Starbucks will drive Fred's Coffee House out of business if it opens within a few city blocks.

Likewise with pubs. Hordes of young people will flock in and just say, "Lager". If really pushed for details, they might just say, "Carling". They can quite happily ignore half a dozen pumps for light or dark bitters or milds.

"Real Ale" also suffers a little from the image presented by CAMRA. CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale, was formed in the 1970's to protest about the growing homogenisation of the brewing industry in Britain. All well and good. Unfortunately, most of the real ale enthusiasts show ample evidence of their dedication to their palates, in the form of gigantic beer-bellies. A few others show the obsessive name- and number-collecting habit associated with train-spotters.

My personal opinion; most draught lager sold in Britain has the authentic taste of hacksaw blades dissolved in battery acid. It is served extra cold to make it palatable. I wouldn't normally touch bottled lager, but there are some specialised brands available albeit at a price; Leffe, Hoegaarden (sp? I have difficulty with the gothic script on the bottle).

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Cobble
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:41 PM

All ale is real or it would'nt be ale. It should be called traditional ale meaning brewed in the old fashioned way.

          Cobble.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Grab
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:50 PM

Jon, that is sadly correct. Most pubs in the UK are either owned by a particular brewery or tied to that brewery (for preferential rates on that brewery's product).

Art, it's not quite as bad as that, but very close. Budweiser and co have just taken English lager to its logic, taste-free, watery conclusion.

And back to Jeff Beck's original question, drinkers of real ale think themselves superior to drinkers of cheap lager for the same reason that someone going to see Tom Paxton (or a similar good musician - obligatory music link there :-) for £20 a ticket might consider themselves superior to the yob who goes out and spends £20 on getting utterly ratted. Or the same way a person who carefully finds a good local painter selling an original landscape for £50 might consider themselves superior to someone who buys a framed print of "Stag at bay" or similar tripe. It's a question of having the values to spend your money on something worthwhile which will give you pleasure, instead of spending the same money on something indescribably cheap and nasty. And worst of all, not realising that you're wasting your money on crap.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:27 PM

There are some interesting beers in Alsace too: I once had one allegedly made from Sauerkraut.

One of the main reasons in England that real ale drinkers (the beer in question is of course not an ale but a beer since it is hopped) think themselves superior to lager drinkers is the behaviour of lager drinkers.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:40 PM

Many lagers sold in the UK have names associated with very good beer, but are in fact made and bottled here under licence, and have none of the finer characteristics of the original brew.

Examples of this would be Lowenbrau, and Tuborg, which are generally awful in UK pubs, but try them in their country of origin and they are delightful.

The term "real ale" has become a way of distinguishing between cask conditioned live beer and keg beer which has been killed by fermentation, and is delivered by CO2 pressure which gives it a fizzy head and makes it a sort of beer flavoured lemonade. This also chills it and partially hides the inferior flavour.

Real ale is delivered by the internal pressure produced by the conditioning, and comes up at cellar temperature, which allows the drinker to get the full complexity of flavour.

I don't consider myself superior to anyone, but I do reserve the right to choose to spend my money on those products that my taste buds best appreciate.

I think most people feel the same about their own choices, and good luck to them. It would be a dull world if everyone liked the same things.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:47 PM

Well put Don, but to say "ale" or "lager" is not enough. You would not order a glass of wine or a plate of food, you need a further description. "Lager drinker" could mean anything. It sounds like it is a reference to a style of commercially made Pilsner, but when people use simple terms like "lager" they are ignoring some fine beers.   If you don't like pizza, you don't necessarily hate all Italian food.

Real ale has become a catchphrase that makes it simple to compartmentalize a certain style of beer. Luckily the world offers much more.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:08 PM

Agreed Ron, but in the UK at least, Lager has become associated with a very specific grouping of binge drinkers (rightly or wrongly referred to as lager louts) who are currently occupying a disproportionate amount of police time and resources, in controlling their behaviour after closing time in pubs and clubs.

As I have said, I don't subscribe to the idea that "Lager" per se is inferior, but what tends to be served under the name Lager in this country (with a few very notable exceptions) is.

When you add to this the public perception of the group I have described above, it isn't too surprising that it gets a rather bad press.

Some years ago (more years than I care to admit) I took a walking holiday in Austria, and at that time virtually every farm made its own Hofbrau (House brew). You could, when thirsty, knock at the door and buy a two litre bottle of lager for a few Schillings, which invariably was purest nectar. In the Bierkellers you could buy dark beers as good as the finest ales ever made in England.

The problem seems to be that these beers were never exported to the UK, so the vast majority of people here are unaware of the difference.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: The Walrus
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:12 PM

There are two ways to tell bloody aweful (Eurofizz - or should that be Urifizz) lagers in Britain, they either come from a tap in a 'chain' pub (or 'piss-and-plastic' bar) or they come from bottles with the obscene phrase "Brewed under License".

There are the the occasional decent lagers to be found in Britain, but they are, regrettably, few and far between.

W

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:16 PM

There's good beer in all varieties, and terrible beer as well. The rule of thumb is to avoid stuff you've seen advertised too widely, and when it comes to draught beer, avoid anything that isn't hand-drawn.

There may conceivably be some good lager produced in the UK, but I've never come across it. So I'll stick to (some) imported lagers and some English-style beers I've got reason to trust. And Guinness, but preferably Murphy's if they have it. And of course I'll be happy to sample any of these hand-crafted American beers if anybody's buying...

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:24 PM

A propos of your comment on Guinness, McGrath, that's another one brewed in England under licence. What you buy under the same name in Dublin has, IMHO, a much finer flavour. I agree with you about Murphy's tho'.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM

Guiness is no longer brewed in England under license. All UK Guiness is brewed in Dublin. Unfortunately the stuff exported over here is made from the guard dogs urine and bears no resamblance to the Irish stuff. But it is brewed there all the same.

Up here in the frozen North we have an excelent brew from Dobbins (If I remember rightly) that was called Guiltless stout until some pratt from Dublin made them change the name. The brew is still very nice all the same.

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:37 PM

I guess the word "lager" has been corrupted and misused in te UK. A real shame that the word cannot be used as intended.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:42 PM

I am sure that is right (all brewed in Dublin) and I am also sure that whilst everyone claims to be able to taste the difference with all due respect it is all no better than Eurofizz lager. It is served cold or very cold and arrives at the pub in a sealed metal dustbin. It takes absolutely no skill to look after it and whilst I am willing to concede to its fans that there may possibly be a difference in taste from pub to pub this is due to turnover of the product and nothing else.

If they ever stopped advertising it, its sales would drop like a stone. It is vastly overpriced.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:50 PM

What makes the difference with Guinness is how far the taps and the pipes are kept clean - well, it makes the difference with all beer of course, but the thing with Guinness is, since no other skills are really needed in serving it (apart from knowing how to pour it, which is tricky enough), the normal skills of looking after beer can be lacking in people selling it. They can get away without them, most of the time. But if the taps aren't clean, or worst of all, if the cleaning stuff is allower to remain in the system, it can taste absolutely disgusting.

As Dylan might have sung:

One kind favour I ask of you,
See that my taps are kept clean

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:53 PM

Psst.... Mr McGrath, hush up about Guinness...Divis Sweeney is back, & if he hears you talking about Guinness, there'll likely be words said...

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:11 PM

I've always enjoyed a good draft Guinness. The stuff in the bottles is fine for cooking with, but not a great drink.   While there are other stouts that I enjoy more, I think that a properly served Guinness is nice.   

Recently I was in Washington and stopped into the Dubliner, reportedly one of the finest Irish pubs in our country.   Their pint was served very, very cold and was awful.   On the other hand, there is a bar in my hometown that serves "the perfect pint".

I think that there are beer snobs that will automatically disregard Guiness.   Because it is successful, people automatically feel that it is inferior.   As McGrath pointed out, the upkeep of the establishment will determine the taste.

Again, if any of you find yourself in Northern NJ please look me up. I would love to sample some great brews at the beer mecca - Andys Corner Bar in Bogota, NJ.   Finest kind.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:21 PM

Had a friend from Galway who lived in Dublin for a few years before coming across to England to live (& for the past few years he's been in Wales...) He used to say that the 'Durty Nellys' pub in Hull (Durty Nellys is an Irish-themed pub 'chain' in UK) served the best pint of Guiness hed had outside Ireland...& his local in Dublin was the pub nearest the brewery.... just couple of hundred yards down the road... the barrels were delivered by hand!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:01 PM

i gave up beer and lager drinking a few years ago when my weight was creeping too close to 18 stone..

growing up in the west country provided ample opportunity to enjoy
real hand pulled draught barreled beers..


but about 15 years ago i went on my first trip to Czeckoslovakia
with a mate who organised cultural exchange trips..

one of the perks was guided tours of czeck breweries

and drinking in the bars that served the freshest purest barrels of local brews..

including the real genuine origional budvar in Ceske Budejovice ..

after that first trip..

i'd spend the equivalent of 3 or 4 weeks a year travelling and drinking all around that beautifull mid european paradise..


you really can drink that stuff until you fall happily and gently unconcious..

and still wake up next without a hint of a hangover..


after that i couldnt enjoy heavier gravity trad english beers so much anymore..


luckily.. a few choice pubs around uk started to import barrels direct from
czech suppliers..


anyway.. in late 90's it seemed big global US & UK corporate beer brands..
were negotiating to buy into czeck breweries..

amidst much fear of modernisation and sterilisation of real czeck lagers in name of corporate progess..

and general westernisation of communist / mid european culture..

i stopped visiting and have'nt been back since 6 years..

so cant say if the lagers have been ruined or not..

.. anyway.. i reverted back to my own trad regional folk culture

and only drink fine quality natural pressed ciders these days..




or at worst.. big pubchain bland chemical fizzy ciderpops

if i'm outsocialising
in a place thats too prejudiced to ever consider stocking selling & the 'real thing'

[and my weight is now a healthier 15 and three quarter stone;
mostly gym toned muscle..!!!]

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: jeffp
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:16 AM

Real ale is actually pumped by a "beer engine," which looks on the outside like a simple tap, but is actually a hand pump. Cask conditioning does not develop enough pressure to push beer up from a cellar.

Lagers and ales are created by different yeasts, ale yeast forms a cake on the top of the fermenting wort, while lager yeast forms its cake on the bottom. Ale is fermented at 65-72 degrees fahrenheit, while lager is slowly cooled to around 50 degrees after fermentation begins. It develops fewer esters at that temperature, keeping the flavor "cleaner," in some peoples' opinions.

There is also a third variety - California Common or "Steam" beer. This is exemplified by Anchor Steam Beer. It is produced with a lager yeast fermented at warmer temperatures.

My preference is for ales. They just feel better in my mouth.

BTW, there is just as much "Everybody know that ..." bullshit in brewing as there is in folk music.

Good thing is that both are great fun to discuss while drinking the one and listening to the other.

Jeff

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: ossonflags
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:27 AM

You are dead right paul.Having drunk many a pint and sung many a song - see "Punch The horse" thraads - in the Durty Nellies in Hull I can personnaly vouch for its excellance.Chris the gaffer probably sells more pints of the "G" than any one else in 'ull

I have also drunk the black stuff all over Ireland,including your mates pub.What I find really strange however, is one year I was drinking in "McDaids" Harry street Dublin, a pub not a thousand miles from St.James Gate brewery, and the pint was dearer than a pub in Ballyferriter County Kerry that I visited two days later !!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:39 AM

I'll have to get round to seeing Punch the Horse one of these days