Real Ale v Lager

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 05:14 PM

You will always get a good breakfast in a little chef

I disagree. Edible at best, in my limited experience.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Patsy Warren
Date: 16 Jul 10 - 06:54 AM

Some lagers are good, some are terrible and taste like metal. Some real ale doesn't do anything for me and then one or two of them have been really good. I don't normally drink Guiness but had some a while back at a St. Patrick night and it was served with shamrock and was really good the best I've had. As for cider I am liking the pear and blackberry ciders. I don't think there is any snobbism anymore with drink. Diversity is allowing people to have what they want and here in Bristol we do exactly that. I don't always chill white wine anymore or lager especially not in winter depends on how I feel at the time.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 11:44 AM

I knew lots of Aussies in London in the 1970s & they all drank Swan!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 10:57 AM

I liked Paul Hogans Fosters adverts. Particularly the one where a Japanse man on the London underground asks him "Can you tell me the way to Cockfosters?"

"Yep," replies Paul, "drink it warm mate..."

Doesn't make the beer any better but it made me laugh:-)

DeG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 08:13 AM

"tepid horse-piss"... So you're saying it's better if it's chilled so that you can't taste it?

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 07:52 PM

Ah, Dave.... you have taste! And so does your beer! Dogfish Head is a gem of a brewery.

It's not against the law to stick to beer/ale which is largely devoid of taste, but calling the suff that DOES have taste "tepid horse-piss" ought to call for 40 lashes with a wet noodle.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 05:57 PM

My favourite beer is Dogfish Head 90 Minute Imperial IPA cos that's what's in my glass tonight, and tomorrow it will be ......

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 03:15 PM

Folkies, you are drinking in the wrong pubs if you think that real beer is tepid hoss-piss. Anyway, as any fule kno, Stella's out of the same great big vat in Luton or Burton as Foster's, Bud, Carling, and all the others. That's why they have to be cooled to near absolute zero and advertised every 15 mins on TV.

OK so they were bottled, but on Sunday I enjoyed a pint of Black Sheep and a pint of Thwaites' which were as different from each other as chalk from cheese but equally splendid. Applies to their draught beer too.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 01:54 PM

Mind you, my fella who taught me all about the sophisticated art of drinking Stella, reckons this IPA is the best he's ever tasted: St. Peter's IPA

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 01:50 PM

"over the past year or so I have become a confirmed drinker of Beck's and Stella."

Welcome to the folk deviants club. I've *never* gained a taste for real ale. Stout I can and will do, but not in multiple pints. I'm definitely a confirmed "pint o' wife-beater" bird myself.

Mind you, I've also got a taste for that strong scrumpy which tastes like cool lemon water, but you don't get it on tap most places. Otherwise it's anything red and wet.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 10:04 AM

After a folk-life wasted drinking the tepid horse-piss that passes for Real Ale, over the past year or so I have become a confirmed drinker of Beck's and Stella. Of course this puts me at a decided disadvantage in any Designated Folk Context where the drinking of tepid horse-piss is de-regeur, so what I've done is to buy myself an 18th century Pewter Tankard for purposes of camouflage. Forgive this subterfuge, but I was recently passed over at a singaround because I was drinking a pint of effervescent bier, it being assumed because I wasn't drinking ale that my presence there was somehow anomalous. Having alerted them to my Traddy status however I was invited to sing whereupon I regaled the company with a hearty rendering of Bring Us In Good Ale, though chance, as ever, would be a fine thing...

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 09:13 AM

Looking at the posts from 4 years ago, there were some remarks about "Ale is Beer", "No it's not", etc. I distinctly remember that 1970s CAMRA regional guides stated "no real BEER" when a keg-only pub was mentioned. Looks like CAMRA started the confusion!

Incidentally, looks like the campaign against Grotneys started much earlier than the 1970s! Found this snippet about the first ads on ITV:

"During the live boxing match from Shoreditch a 'natural break' was taken between two rounds. The last advertisement before cutting back to the match was for Watney's Beer. The advert showed a row of beer tumblers emptying themselves unaided while the voiceover told viewers, "You try it." At this point the picture cut back to the boxing just as one of the fighters was spitting frenziedly into a bucket. One can only imagine the horror on the face of Watney's executives as they viewed their first TV commercial".

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 07:08 AM

Decent pint of Fosters ? oxymoron.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: MikeL2
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 05:34 AM

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Atlas reader - PM
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 05:06 AM

"Where can I get a decent pint of Fosters? "

Try the nearest swimming pool.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Atlas reader
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 05:06 AM

Where can I get a decent pint of Fosters?

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 06:22 AM

I haven't had a good breakfast in a Little Chef for a long time. You usually find that most of it is ok, but there's always at least one item that they get spectacularly wrong!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 05:37 AM

I have begun to realise the thread title is somewhat misleading. I think what we are realy talking about is traditionaly brewed and kept beers versus the pasturised versions, often kept under pressure for ease of dispensing and preservation. Whether it is ale, beer, lager, stout, porter or any of the other variations is irrelevet realy as they all have both versions, and that preference is most likely a matter of personal taste.

There is nothing at all wrong with the nitrokeg version as long as it tastes good. That is often the issue though. It is consistantly good but very rarely great. Whereas the traditionaly brewed and kept versions are sometimes awful, usualy very good and often spectacular. Pretty much like most things. You will always get a good breakfast in a little chef but need to go to a truckstop, and risk disappointment, to find a great one. You will always find good music on a pub jukebox, but need to hear the occasional bad live act to find the mainly great performers in small clubs.

Like the folk club or jazz club image maybe you are right in saying that CAMRA need to update a little. It is the way of the world.

But what cider and mead got to do with a debate on real ale is beyond me...

DeG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 04:25 AM

Must admit Mariner, I haven't tried giving it the benefit of the doubt yet... I am over fairly regularly either on business or seeing old friends and stick to the black stuff.

I might, just might, on your recommendation, try a pint at The Highwayman next month.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: MARINER
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:32 PM

Ah Willie, things have changed as lot in Ireland since the 8os. Smithwicks is a good pint no matter where you get it in the country. I've just had 5 or 6 pints of it tonight (oul seadogs renunion) and am feeling no pain.It's much better than it was in olden times !.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:35 PM

Smithwicks has never been that good...

When I was working in Ireland in the '80s, it was the only bitter you could get in many places. Most people had either a Guinness or lemonade top to it in order to make it palatable!

If it had changed by being a long time in the pipes, 10/1 it may have improved it...

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: MARINER
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 11:01 AM

Robomatic, As I said above I was surprised to find Smithwicks in an "Irish" pub in the States (Cape Cod, never saw it anywhere else in the US ) but it was vile!, probably there in the pipes for a long time.However Kilkenny or Killian's Red is not bad at all, perhaps it has a faster turnover? .The highlight of my trip though was seeing Gordon Bok playing at Wood's Hole.That made up for the days feeling seedy after the Smithwicks!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:07 AM

I much prefer mead or cider.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:03 AM

CAMRA did have a valid argument for lobbying many years ago, and without them, local variety of ales would be a thing of the past.

However, there is a festival now and then at a pub near me and I do like to go down as I might bump into old mates. To see people treating it the same as train spotting with their pads and half pint glasses does put people off the idea of championing the cause of retaining real ales.

I think the word "real" needs dropping though as that causes the elitism that many of find either repulsive or mildly amusing, depending on whether you take it seriously or not.

Viz. comic sends CAMRA up a treat with a comic strip called something like "Real Ale Bores"

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 08:56 PM

LOVED Smithwick's in Eire, is there a version available in US? I thought not but didn't consider domestic labeling.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: HuwG
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 06:24 PM

CAMRA can, unfortunately, become Real Ale Nazis, but the fundamental point they made back in the 1970s is still as valid. Variety and quality of beer and pub service is under threat from homogenisation of the brewing industry and legislation which seems designed to target pubs and breweries.

The (British) government's knee-jerk reaction to, say, binge drinking among teenagers, has been to attack pubs, which they do not frequent, and impose ever-higher duties on draught beers and ales, which they do not drink, while leaving city centre bars which offer ridiculous deals on strong liqours, off-licences (corner shops which sell bottled and canned drink), and importers and distillers of ersatz vodka to flourish.

Many of the former tied pubs were acquired by "pubcos"; companies which manage chains of public houses. These pubcos seem determined to make every pub in Britain a carbon copy of some mock-Tudor template. They also have an unfortunate record of leaving the fabric of some pubs for which they cannot find tenant landlords willing to accept usurious terms of occupancy, to decline to the point where demolition is the only option.

Mercifully, some of the microbreweries are not only continuing to operate, but to flourish, with customers attracted by word of mouth and local interest.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 04:31 PM

Hands up! I like cold lager-beer. Usually get the German or Czech beers if at supermarket (and I do check the label for added unecessaries). On tap, it's a pint of wife beater. That'll be the ladette in me, which is definitely present under the influence.
Those White Beers are fantastic Summer drinks too.
Never got into real ale for some reason, though a tasty Stout I can enjoy - in moderation.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: MARINER
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 04:20 PM

" Wasn't sure it was a competition. I don't like celery, but I don't compare it to a stick of Blackpool rock and sneer at people eating it!"
Fair play Steamin' Willie, That's the point I was trying to make. These CAMRA types sneer at other people because they don't subscribe to the their idea of what is good beer and try to foist their opinion on you.
Are there such a thing as Ale or Beer Nazis?

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 10:08 AM

Smithwicks and Kilkenny are similar, as they are brewed in the same brewery...... (When I sued to work in Ireland years ago, you could only get Smithwicks if you didn't want stout, (well in most bars anyway.) It just about made it palatable if you had a Guinness top.

Regarding the actual debate....

Ale vs lager?

That's like saying roast beef vs custard.

They all have their place. I drink bitter most of the time, (also love stout,) and sometimes if I am thirsty or in an Indian restaurant, I prefer lager.

Wasn't sure it was a competition. I don't like celery, but I don't compare it to a stick of Blackpool rock and sneer at people eating it!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: MARINER
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 05:31 AM

I think Smithwicks and Kilkenny are about the same.Have you ever tried the old Wexford brew now sold in the States as George Killian's Red Ale ?

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 08:46 PM

Leave it to the Scots:

Tactical Nuclear Penguin

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 05:45 PM

I knew somebody somewhere must be drinking Smithwicks. We took a band to Ireland years ago when they had a promotion on - a pint and a half (30 flozs) for the price of a pint with a free glass, and still nobody would buy it, apart from us, just to get the glass, then back to the Guinness! Is it much different from Kilkenny?

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 05:16 PM

"Personally I like the ol' pint of Smithwicks here in Ireland. I have even sampled it in America !But beware!it was vile!.

I had it on tap at an Inn in West Virginia, and it was fine.... so I bought some in bottles here in Maryland, and it WAS vile. Maybe it was old....I dunno, but I won't take chances again.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: MARINER
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 04:48 PM

I don't mind a pint or two of "Real Ale" although I have drunk some that seem to have travelled through the landlords kidneys before it came to me . I can also enjoy a pint of English Keg Beer and in the Boston area of the U.S.I like a Sam Adams .I'm easy. What pisses me off is the Real Ale brigade constantly bangin' on about how great a paticular real ale is as opposed to the mass produced stuff!. I travel to Stockton-on -Tees once a year to visit an old shipmate who is prepared to travel miles to some obscure pub to drink one pint of "Old Dogs Bollocks" or some other quaintly named beer. Personally I like the ol' pint of Smithwicks here in Ireland. I have even sampled it in America !But beware!it was vile!.
Local beers in Austria are generally fine.No after taste and no hangovers !

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 08:35 AM

Ruth I refer you to' The Tale Of Ale ' and two tracks, Andrew Boorde On Ale and Andrew Boorde On Beer, he subtly explains the difference.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 08:05 AM

"There seems to be a reluctance among you Brits to realize that you drink "beer" and by calling it "ale" makes it somehow better. Wrong!! Ale is beer."

I think part of the confusion comes from the distinction between what is termed "real ale" (as in the Campaign for Real Ale) in the UK and processed, carbonised "tap" beers. What we call "real ale" often IS a superior product. It is cask-conditioned. It is alive, and once delivered it has to be left alone to settle for a period of time before the cask can be tapped. It is a more artesan product. Even the way it is served - through hand-pull pumps - is different to the electronic taps for other types of beer. This is a very different product from keg beers, which are injected with chemicals to make them fizzy, and where the priority is in making the product as stable as possible for transport and convenience.

I would hasten to add that you can buy very nice hand-pulled, cask-conditioned lagers. You can also buy crappy keg bitters off the tap (John Smith's Smooth, anyone?). So it's not about style - it's about method.

The joy of real ale is that every pub is an adventure. You try different products with widely varying tastes and characters. Some are rubbish, I'll admit, but many are sublime.

Ron, the tendency to use the word "ale" or the term "real ale" is because, like folk, beer drinking had its own revival in the UK. From what I've been told it was in a pretty parlous state back in the 70s (I have heard of, but never experienced, the joys of Watney's Red Barrel and the Party Seven). The Real Ale movement was a concerted effort to bring beer drinking back to its roots and to rehabiltate the image and the culture of beers that were British in character, as the market was being overrun by homogenous imported lagers and poor-quality keg beers. So maybe that's why people seem a bit chippy. :)

I love real ale. I even love that it has its own mythology and heritage - has anyone ever heard of a thunderstorm turning the beer?

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Stu
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 05:38 AM

Seven or so on handpump, plus Westons cider and a straight-from-the-farm cider in a plastic container in our local. There is a rumour that the landlord is gong to take the fizzy key urine lagers off altogether.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 04:34 AM

"From what I've heard, your pubs seem to only serve one or two brands"

We are lucky in Sheffield but on the annual count of different beers on sale in Sheffield I seem to remember it comes to around 150 different beers available on "that" weekend each year.

All the pubs I go in have a range. (Except Sam Smith's pubs - but that is another story - and the beer is only around £1.40 around $0.80 for a pint. It isn't normal!!)

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 04:29 AM

"From what I've heard, your pubs seem to only serve one or two brands"

These days, most UK pubs will have at least three hand-pulled, cask-conditioned beers. Some will have half a dozen or so. And there will, of course, also be the fizzy, pressurised draught stouts (Guinness or Murphy's) and lagers. White beers such as Hoegaarden and continental lagers such as Leffe also seem to be springing up everywhere.

Choice may seem limited in relative terms, but there isn't so much of a bottled beer culture in the UK as there is in America (though ironically, the one beer you always see in bottles in UK pubs, Newcastle Brown, is commonly available on draught in America these days). As with food, I actually prefer a smaller choice that's kept and served well to a huge menu which might not be as well-kept or as fresh.

"Here in the U.S. if you ask for an "ale", you would need to qualify it - do you want a bitter, a pale ale, a mild ale, an IPA, a stout, a porter, barley wine, etc."

Well, no one really goes into a pub and asks for "an ale" in the UK, to be honest. You ask for a pint of bitter, a pint of mild, a pint of IPA, etc. Re the choice of beers in America: yes, it's got better. Unfortunately, the beer is then served so cold, often in those ridiculous frozen glasses, that you can't taste the subtle differences between the various microbrews anyway. In my experience, the microbrew culture in the US also very much depends on where you live and the pubs/bars you frequent. So yes, if you are a beer enthusiast you can certainly find many more decent beers in American pubs these days than you could 20 years ago, but those pubs still are the exception rather than the rule in the places I visit when I go home (I spend most of my time in Long Island and New Jersey, but in recent years have also visited the Carolinas).

When I go into a pub or bar in the States, I usually say, "Give me the darkest beer you've got that's not Guinness." Bass is fairly common, as is this fizzy, cold, draught Newkie Brown. But often the best they can do is something like Yuengling, which is a fairly uninteresting lager, IMHO. And even the darker beers most pubs/bars serve tend not to be cask conditioned real ales, but processed, carbonated keg versions. Presumably that's because keeping cask conditioned beer is a tricky business, and you really need a qualified cellarman to do the job. But the difference in the character of the beer is huge.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 04:13 AM

I think a lot of it is both the drinkers attitude and the licenced trade's attitude to them. Drink is not for savouring it is for getting pissed as quick as possible and making loads of dosh for the trade. Fizzy nitrokeg, of both the lager and ale varieties, keep well, are easy to serve and make the money. The advantage for the pissheads is that it goes down well and has the desired effect. Unfortunate but borne out, particularly by the under 25s, in every city cetre, every weekend:-(

DeG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 03:30 AM

The trouble in the UK is that [ almost ] all the lagers on sale in pubs are steralised nitrokeg, chilled to death so you can't tell how flavourless it is, if you can find a ' real ' lager they are indeed very good to drink.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 08:55 AM

Lager is beer isn't it? I believe the name derives from the process 'lagering' which involves fermentation at a cooler temperature, for a longer period. I made it my mission, while in Belgium for 3 months, to try as many Belgian beers as possible - And note that they are called beers there. They were almost all good and varied from the almost black heavy brews, through the red 'Roden' beers to the palest of what are generaly described as lagers. The tastes were even more varied. The most avoided, apart from by a few, was Stella Artois!

DeG

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 06:56 AM

Hi

This thread is a typical Mudkats thread that can create hundreds of comments where none of them are right except for the poster of the message.

Most of the replies to this one ( there are some exceptions ) assume a generality that beers are better than lagers.

The trhread was posted because of a link with folk music. This link was one that raises it's head here almost every day - that if folk music is only good if it is traditional and that it is in some way superior to anything else.

I have played and listened in folk clubs all over Europe for more years than I care to remember and sadly I have to agree with the people who say that Traditionists appear to think themselves superior and the centre of the Universe.

There much beautiful and great traditional stuff but there is also fantastic music that is looked down on by the " trad folkies ".

It's the same with beer and lager - not all beer is great and not all lager is crap.

But Jeff is right there does seem to be a preponderance of traditionists who also drink real ale and DO appear to think themselves superior to the rest of us that have different and differing tastes.

cheers

Now for a pint.....doon't care if it's beer or lager....as long as it is good.

Mike

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Acorn4
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 05:03 AM

Surely the difference between real ale and lager is that lager passes through the body in an unchanged state!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 02:52 AM

If you are a home brewer you can make a very acceptable lager using one of the 40 pint lager kits, but use a proper lager yeast rather than whatever is supplied with the kit, and add some Saaz or Hallertau hops. Brew it in the winter so it can ferment at a lower temperature and allow a period of cold storage (lagering).

Makes an excellent brew for the hot summer days...

Pete.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 07:52 PM

I grew up in Edinburgh drinking pints of Heavy, then moved to Geordieland, where I drank pints of Scotch. Moved to London where it was bitter till I started just asking for what it said on the label. Had a summer job at Scottish & Newcastle, where the only ammonia was for flushing the pasteuriser at the end of every week's run on the bottling plant.

I started drinking on a school trip to Köln, and still have a fondness for a füftel of Kölsch. I've never liked bland beers, so I've never taken to Bud. Budweiser is a different matter entirely, and my favourite lager is Staropranem dark, which I seem to have to go to Prague for since Tesco stopped stocking it. Just finished a rather nice bottle of Blue Moon (Belgian style wheat beer from North America - 5.4%).

It's thanks to CAMRA that I started drinking lagers after having been put off by things like Eau de Dundalk (Harp), though fortunately I knew better than be put off ales by such monstrosities as Red Barrel and Tartan.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Mick Woods
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 03:32 PM

I'm thirsty again!!!

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:44 AM

Glad you liked it, Scientist - I appreciated the irony of yours as well. You know what they say - Imitation is the best form of flattery;-)

Dave

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: GUEST,Scientist
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 04:33 PM

Nice one dave

:)

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 12:28 AM

here we go again.

If someone said they love cheese but will only eat cheddar, or if they love seafood but only eat swordfish, then they have a very limited perspective and probably lack tastebuds.   They know what they like, and that is great, but they truly are not able to comment on the qualities of other styles.    Same with those who only drink ale or only drink lager - there is a lack of taste to understand what you are really drinking.   Enjoy it, but realize that your world is limited.

Subject: RE: Real Ale v Lager
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 07:43 AM

Most lager drinkers are hypocrites.

A mate of mine makes a big deal out of "Lager" sneering at my lovely pint of Holts saying "It's full of live yeast" whilst I know for a fact that he lives on a diet of muesli, cottage cheese and health food.

Small groups of desgner labelled cretins congregate in my local pub whingeing about "It's a bit cloudy" "Tastes a bit off" "It's the end of the barrel" "It's a new barrel" "They don't serve a lot, so it's a bit stale" What a load of shite - they should not make excuses for stuff they have paid good money for, they should take it back to the bar and ask for a replacement or a refund.

I came upon another two friends at a new session started in a new venue. They both had long faces. "they haven't got any fizzy crap, so we won't be coming here again" I have known these two for abot 5 years they usualy drink more than a gallon of Robinsons and a quart of Old Peculiar, sometimes bottled Hobgoblin and a good Chablis - what a load of bollox.

:D