BS: London Bombs

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 01:34 PM

I have heard that more information has been released in US media than would be permitted here.
Anything worth passing on?
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 04:19 AM

Not for the poor lady who had the misfortune to look like a "Pakistani, who the hell could someone tell th difference, and of course, no bomb making material. Don`t panic, Dont panic.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 04:16 AM

Almost heaven West Viginia

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 08:15 AM

Which REALLY WAS their intent all along - not necessarily to kill people, just make their point - which was **** off!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:24 AM

Whatever the truth of this latest scare the terrorists must be laughing their socks off at the amount of disruption this has caused in the West.

I travelled to the UK yesterday in a plane that was more than half empty and had to go through extensive security checks at Boston airport to get on the plane. The least problem brings on major paranoia from the authorities and everything gets backed up even more. I wonder what the cost of all this in lost business and man hours would come to.

These guys don't need to carry out their threats - they are making their point quite nicely right now.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 04:31 AM

Anyone remember the ricin plot? And they wonder why we are so sceptical...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 04:08 AM

It is reported that the fiasco in Boston Airport after the Washington flight was diverted, was due to a lady passenger having a panic attack, surely the panic attack was with the authorities at Boston Airport

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 02:49 AM

GUEST is trying to get y'all excited with arrant nonsense.

I believe "Americans outfought, outfoxed, and outwaited, and outwitted the British in one war (with a little bit of help from the FRENCH FLEET).

That other war is better forgotten by both sides. I don't want the Canadians thinking about burning down the White House AGAIN!

As far as a plot to foist 9/11 on the world, the TV Pilot of "Lone Gunmen" used that for a plot about half a year prior to 9/11/01. Meanwhile, GUEST should find someone to read and 'splain that issue of Popular Science or Mechanics which deals with all the current myths.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:30 PM

The sad thing about GUEST's paranoia, is that the US does have the documented previous record of wilfully sticking its dick in all over the world...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: bobad
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:21 PM

Be a good lad now, take your meds and off to bed with ya, guest.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:18 PM

The people who ran 9-11 scripted in one flight where the planeload of passengers stormed the FIVE MEN ARMED WITH ONE-INCH BOXCUTTERS at the last minute. What a crock. But it had to be written in because Americans wouldn't buy the 9-11 story otherwise. To NOT act aggressively in a situation like that is unthinkable, so they added some heroes for us. "Let's roll," and they wrestled the plane to the ground rather than let it hit a populated area. What crap. I know the name of the pilot who shot down the plane and the name of the General who issued the order. But they manipulate some audio and then make a TV movie to cement the lie and Americans now think some of their own "took action" against 5 inches of cold steel on 9-11. They pre-planned that flight as a movie-of-the-week.

9-11 has to be continually returned to because it is the event out of which all subsequent government abuses have grown. We wouldn't HAVE govts abusing passengers at airports if everyone would just face the facts of 9-11. The Cavemen of Tora Bora didn't do it. It didn't happen like the US govt says. And 63 more "rogue nations" are on the list to be invaded (Afghanistan first, Iraq next, etc.), so if you don't confront what's happening to us, your children will die in foreign wars.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 09:16 AM

Americans trounced the British in two wars...

While one could argue about the military supremacy of the protagonists in the War if Independence, the use of "trounced" in regard to the War of 1812 only points out your total ignorance of the nature, history & outcome of that colossal U.S. clusterfu$k.

Here, try this:

Hickey, Donald R.: The War of 1812. Chicago, Univ. of Illinois Press, 1989.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 08:37 AM

The problem with making a system foolproof, is that they keep making dumber fools...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 08:27 AM

Ah - isn't a perfect world lovely - wake me up when it happens...................

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 08:01 AM

Twelve year old kid made an ass of the security system. Got through the net and got onto plane without paperwork. He escaped from a care home. John Prescott is to make a statement later.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 07:54 AM

"Americans trounced the British in two wars and saved them in two others"

... and made a lot of profit out of them in the process...

I'm an Aussie, dickhead. I know what 'boxcutters' are, even though that's what they are normally called here. I have seen the results, as a First Aider, of what happens when one gets accidentally out of control... never mind if one is held to someone's jugular.

You must be pretty brave with one at your throat, no doubt, but then from your remarks, you can have no other person of any significant value to you, who, being held with a sharp blade to THEIR throat would cause YOU any misgivings at all.

You must be a very lonely person in your arrogant ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 12:27 AM

No, I have dealt with knives. But we're not talking about knives here. Boxcutters are one-inch razors. And 4 men with boxcutters aren't going to subdue 100+ avg Americans traveling on business (younger, motivated, alert people). Just doesn't happen that way. Americans trounced the British in two wars and saved them in two others, so I'm sure a planeload of Americans would be able...no, GLAD...to take down 4 turds armed with nothing but attitudes. Oh, and one-inch razors. That made my day. A Brit who's been convinced a boxcutter is...lol. Your bobbies are blowing your brains out on the trains, and you're convinced boxcutters are enormously dangerous. lol. Oh, man. You Brits ARE the masters of comedy.

But seriously, what I can't understand is why the people at Heathrow were made to pour out their liquids. Isn't that how it happened? Liquids weren't just handed over, the possessor had to open the container and dump it. That's what I read. And if the "officials" were scared of terrorists mixing chemicals to concoct something explosive or toxic, then why were they dumping all that stuff down the same drain? Did anyone think of that? And if that's the way it happened, then why did it happen that way?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 10:59 PM

"19 men with boxcutters. Five men per plane screaming, "Don't move or I CUT you! Stay back there you hundred people, or I cut you like a BOX!" Four men screaming that on one plane. I don't think so. "

Troll, You've obviously never been in a life threatening situation with a sharp knife held to your jugular. Shut up Wanker!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 09:10 PM

But the perpetrators of 9-11 did screw up. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld have all made damning self-incriminating statements. Public statements. It's all documented. The problem is, some people have made a conscious decision not to believe 9-11 was a govt job, so the perpetrators aren't being held accountable.

People think they will risk their jobs or their pensions or their families if they support what they've been told are "conspiracy theories," but the govt is the one with the conspiracy theory. 19 men with boxcutters. Five men per plane screaming, "Don't move or I CUT you! Stay back there you hundred people, or I cut you like a BOX!" Four men screaming that on one plane. I don't think so.

The 911 Commission didn't even mention WTC bldg # 7, which fell on Sept 11. Never hit by a plane, and the 47 story building fell at free-fall speed in a perfectly controlled demolition. It was the regional center of the CIA, FBI, BATF, Secret Service, etc. And that's what the report DIDN'T talk about...the lies it told on other topics are all easily disproven by public record and scientific demonstration. So the people who buy the govt story WANT to buy it. Problem is, a govt that would do that to someone else will do it to you. Your family will die at the hands of such a govt if you don't take action. And you know it. Rationalizing won't get you out of this.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:03 PM

I will wait until John Prescott makes a statement in the morning. He is the only one you can believe.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 01:57 PM

"I would imagine (with the brain work and the grunt work, wiring the planes, etc), it would take 100-200 people to set up the attack"

Up to 200 folks and none of them have talked? Nobody screwed up? I find that impossible to believe { I guess that means I'm brainwashed }. I'm reminded of a scene in "Bodyheat" where an arsonist is told something like - "there are more than 100 ways you can get caught. If you're really smart you may be able to think of 90 of them - and you're not that smart".

The government screwed up a simple B&E at the Watergate Hotel. It's impossible for me to believe that they could have pulled this off. Just imagine "Psst - Hey buddy - we're going to blow up some buildings - kill thousands of people and make a pile of money doing it. You want in ???"

Sorry - it just doesn't wash.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 01:24 PM

tell ya wot - I reckon, with 20/20 hindsight I can solve all these problems except one.

and that is talk to the relatives of the grieving.

& I lived with grief for 25 years - my widowed mother.

If ya ain't part of the solution (nay sayers take note) then ya gotta be part of the problem. And before the naysayers start to bray - there are more parts to the problem than you can say nay to.................. so bray bray bray

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 04:33 AM

The latest news on the fate of the murderer of Jean Charles de Menezes will be viewed with apprehension by future air travellers, this brutal executioner is to be involved in the training of British "sky marshals", the "sky marshalls" will be armed and travelling in secret on aircraft to tackle would-be terrorists.

It is claimed that because this trained killer has shown he can " make difficult split second decisions and carry them out". This raises the question of what should we be more afraid of, - unproven and politically convenient al-Qaida plots, or, those "air marshals: trained by this thug.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 12:55 AM

"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101300.html

(Bushit story, but at least these animals are starting to point the finger at one another. No bungling or incompetence occurred on 9-11. The operation went off perfectly. And now the perpetrators are accusing each other of lying. So....why don't we have a new investigation? Someone in govt should have IMMEDIATELY called for a new and truly independent investigation. This article serves as further evidence of who did the job. The investigation was flawed, but no one in power calls for a new one. Only people with something to hide would behave like that. The behavior's called "criminal demeanor" and would convict you or me under similar circumstances.)

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 10:07 PM

Wesley S. -- who knows how many were involved? The # 3 man at the CIA, Buzzy Krongard, was connected to stock market bets against American Airlines and United Airlines on Sept 9 & 10, so was he involved? Or was he just capitalizing on scuttlebutt? Insider trading info he picked up around the water cooler at the CIA?

And Larry Silverstein bought the WTC towers just weeks before the attacks. Insured them to the hilt and then collected billions in insurance. And he paid too much for the things. They were asbestos filled and overdue for demolition. So was he involved? Probably. He wouldn't have been allowed to interfere with the plot (old man Bush would've had him killed), so he was probably appointed to be landlord so he could secure the area while the explosives were planted by "maintenance workers."

But there are 4 definites involved in the crime...Cheney, Rumsfeld, Eberhart & Myers. Then after the fact, the murders were covered up by the 911 commission (Kean, Goss, Graham), and their complicity makes them guilty of the crimes.

In June of 2001, Department of Defense head Donald Rumsfeld had control of NORAD signed over to him. First time in history the system was under civilian control. Then on Sept 11, 2001, multiple wargames were being run, creating confusion among air traffic controllers on the east coast of the U.S. Generals Eberhart and Myers of the Joint Chiefs oversaw these exercises. Dick Cheney had personal control of NORAD assigned to him by Rumsfeld on 9-11. And SOMEONE switched off the fire-on-detect missiles and gatling guns on top of the Pentagon, and Rumsfeld was in the building. After the attacks, NORAD was signed back over to the military.

Anyway, that's 4 primaries to pull it off and three to cover it up. Seven. Primaries. But a handful of others would be needed. Like the air traffic controller (can't think of his name right now) who was on duty on 9-11 and probably helped coordinate things. He was the same controller handling EgyptAir flight 990 when it went down in the Atlantic (the flight with the "insane Egyptian pilot" screaming as the plane dove into the water). Many think that was just a test of the remote guidance systems used on 9-11).

Plus there would be the people who planted the cutting charges and bombs in the WTC, and the ones who triggered the blasts via computer. Those folks are probably long dead, unless they have skills that would be hard to replace. I guess triggering those bombs would be a sort of skill. I know I couldn't do it.

Really, from the Joint Chief Generals telling the military to stand at their posts, and Rumsfeld disabling the Pentagon and Cheney supervising the whole thing, you don't need many others. Everyone thought it was just "the drills" going on as usual, like they did year in and year out.

I would imagine (with the brain work and the grunt work, wiring the planes, etc), it would take 100-200 people to set up the attack. Everyone else just did their jobs in the chain of command, and if they're ever cornered the primaries will say they were "confused." Plausible deniability.

But thank God for Leon Mineta's testimony before Congress. He heard Cheney say "the order still stands," and that could only be an override order to shoot down the plane heading for the Pentagon. That testimony in itself would hang you or me, and someday it'll hang Cheney. Hopefully.

Prescott Bush tried to overthrow the U.S. govt in 1934. Prescott admired Hitler and wanted that kind of dictatorship in America. His son, George H.W., is about to fulfill his daddy's dream of setting up a fascist tyranny in America. Or no, it's Nazism, "The policy of racist nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy." That's what the Bushes have set up with their war against the Arabs and their turnover of the economy to Halliburton and the other corporations. Prescott Bush was defeated by Gen. Smedley Butler, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of the Bushes now. Hell, even the Clintons work for them.

(Ah, here it is..."The same controller handled Egypt Air Flight 990 when it crashed off the coast of Massachusetts in 1999, the employee said. The controller is "pretty disturbed" that he lost both planes, the employee said.")

http://newsmine.org/archive/9-11/911-flight-controller-handled-egypt-air-flight-990.txt

His name is drifting around somewhere on the internet. I wonder if they killed him yet? That one would be easy to make look like an Arkancide.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 08:46 PM

Just one - a Troll....

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:10 PM

Guest - a serious question for you. How many people would it take to pull off what you have proposed ? It's going to take a lot more than 4 or 5 people. 50 ? 100 ? 2000? What's your best guess on how many were involved?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:53 PM

I think you need to go and see a shrink Guest

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:14 PM

The 911 hoax began with telling the world 5 punks with box cutters could take over an American airliner. Unless there were only nuns and children on the flight, that's not possible. I could snap the neck of one and seriously disable a second before my arterial spray was done, and I wouldn't mind going out that way at all. The insinuation that American men were immobilized by box cutters is absurd.

As for the rest. Given one hour in front of an impartial grand jury, I could present reason to go to trial against Bush & Cheney. As a matter of fact, they're already involved in numerous murder trials concerning their involvement in 9-11. The trials just don't get reported. The gangsters generated the plan for the attack, carried out the attack, covered up the attack. I could prove that to any jury in America of that in one hour, using public records. Prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. That's how obvious the job was.

Unfortunately, they don't seem to have let their #1 patsy (GWBush) in on the whole plan until afterward, when his ass was on the line. But his complicity in the coverup after the fact makes him just as guilty as the actural perpetrators (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Myers, Eberhart, et al).

American school kids are currently being SEVERELY dumbed down by Federal govt programming, so if we don't stop these tyrannists now, they'll never be stopped. Quit cowering. Quit accepting the lies on TV as truth.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 10:44 AM

As a voter in British elections yes I am involved. I feel this whole thing was done to cover over the events in the Middle East and to make the great British public so scared that they will support the government overseas policies. I repeat it was all a con. John Prescott evened refused to make a comment about it and he's in charge of the country at this moment in time.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 09:58 AM

I hardly think that the events of the last few days was a hoax Guest.
Can't be careful enough. I don't think anybody thought that those murdering ********* would ever fly planes into buildings but they did.

Why don't you come on here with your name Guest? Are you involved?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 09:26 AM

People usually read the headline but not the retraction. Two months after the event, the average person still believes there was really ricin in that guy's house, or cyanide. They don't read about the accused being released without charges, but they remember the police raid. So yeah, the govt gains by staging phony events.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 07:56 AM

I think I get the gist of this - (I must be vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvery slow today) governments blow up their voters to gain popularity. And they disrupt and piss them off to the same end. And when there are no bombs - why, there never were any in the first place.

So what's the problem?

Sorted.

These GUESTS am mighty clever I wish I wuz one..................

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:40 AM

There will be plenty of cream in politician's trousers when that happens...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:07 AM

Anyone any idea when MI5 will be exploding the small bomb to add cream to John Reid's cake ?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:19 AM

GUEST better keep her carrot under aluminum foil, too.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:13 AM

Sorry, I was asleep...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:28 PM

Most recent AP article on the evolving US rule changes. There is no ban on reading material on US flights. These rules apply to US domestic flights, and the UK makes its own (different) policies.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 07:47 PM

No I do not defend terrorists. This was an example. So you now know there was a plan to blow up ten or more aircraft ? Seems you have already ate your carrot. Fool.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 07:43 PM

Guest-

So it's "freedom fighters" who were planning to ignite bombs on 10 or so transatlantic airplanes, hoping to send hundreds of passengers and crew members to their death.

Does that change in terminology somehow justify such an act to your mind? Or are you more concerned in explaining their motive?

Or is discourse with you a waste of time?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 06:58 PM

Yes Mr.Red And when the Germans took France over and the French began an underground movement the Germans called them terrorists and the British called them freedom fighters. Follow your carrot the whole way home.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 06:41 PM

OK - let me get this straight in my head - governments are devious - right? And terrorists (if they ever existed) are not. Hmm I think I am getting it.

And Sept 11 didn't happen so we don't have anything to worry about. No! Run that by me again. Or was it an underground train that crashed into the twin towers - right? Guess the poor train driver hung a right at Waterloo or Gerrards Cross - eh?

I think I get it now - religions preach co-existence and love and stuff like that - huh? and to a man (or manatrix) those that declare they are religious subscribe to this - Yea of course.

And terrorists (if they etc......) never work under the cloak of anonymity - just like GUESTS.

So what is the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:53 AM

Simpleogic...

Anybody who calls Christ their spiritual leader is a 'Christian'

Anybody who commits acts of terror, made famous by....

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:42 AM

Following carrots.

British government still has still not produced conclusive evidence of Al Qaeda-linked attack.

"There's no conclusive evidence an Islamic Community official said yesterday.

However the official, who demanded anonymity, noted that it was, a mix of new information and reassessment of old intelligence, this raises "serious questions".

Results so far. Significant increase in attacks on the Muslim community in Britain.

Keep following the carrot.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:39 AM

According to a satirical news show on BBC Radio 4, someone claimed he was able to buy razors at Heathrow after the alert and after passing all of the security checks - they were on open sale at Boots 'airside' i.e. there would be no standard checks between the purchase and entering the plane.

Ok, its a comedy programme, but according to the Heathrow website, there is certainly a branch of Boots airside at Terminal 2 "available to all international passengers".

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:31 AM

No need, Guest. It is already listed in all the news media. It is you who are marching to then beat of different baby rattle therefore up to you to prove your point.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:24 AM

Why have members got the correct information ? if so please list it.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:17 AM

BUGGER ! Mrs Duck was posting while I was typing !!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:15 AM

I still find it fascinating that anonymous guests have SO much information about what is going on in the world !

Oh! And by the way - 100 !!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:08 AM

Glad all you stuff got back, Barbara. According to news reports today many flights are being cancelled to allow more time for security checks on the ramaining ones! Charmion and CET are due to arrive today but hopefully coming in shouldn't be as bad. I wish I could say that I felt these measures were going to help national security but I feel they are all just a big show to drum up bad feeling against the Arab nations and make people support what is happening in Iraq or Lebanon. So far nothing has been found to substantiate the claims - sounds familiar!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 07:58 AM

Aircraft has already been tickled off the terrorist list. Our silly government need to look elsewhere. Many I spoke to in my area who know the guys arrested say the government AGAIN got it so wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: bbc
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 07:47 AM

Dick, even this past Thursday, people got on board w/ various items--books, magazines, pens, etc. David & I followed the written directions to the letter, but many others didn't & their items were not confiscated. We noticed this as we sat, for 11 hours, w/ nothing to do. I didn't want to risk having my belongings confiscated, so I did as I was told. Good news update--we *did* get all of our luggage the day after we arrived, intact. BTW, in my previous post, when I said we arrived at 4 pm, that should have read 4 am; I was a bit tired!

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:25 AM

But it's all a fraud, folks. Here's how the FBI does terrorism around here:

"...This incident made me suspicious of the relationship between the Klan and law enforcement--a suspicion that deepened in 1998, when it came to light that the FBI had established a Klan chapter in Fort Worth, Texas, with the intent of blowing up a chemical plant in nearby Arlington. As a result of this episode, Texas Monthly magazine honored the FBI with one of its Bum Steer Awards."

http://www.mackwhite.com/archive72.html

You folks need to listen to Webster Tarpley, if you have computer speakers. He's one of the better analysts on this stuff, and his show airs Sunday nights, I think it's 9PM Central Time, US. Two hours of global intelligence analysis. He's been doing it for decades. Not partisan except for being anti-tyranny, as far as I can tell.

http://www.rbnlive.com/listen.html

That link has Media Player and RealPlayer connections.

The man on for the hour after him is good, too. Terry Anderson. From southern California. Single-issue host. Illegal immigration. The numbers he quotes will break your heart if you're an American taxpayer.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 11:50 PM

Oh, I can see the security lines now when they start the "bend over and spread your cheeks" measures!

ah...sorry, I was being facetious...of course, they will merely require that 12 Million dollar scanners (that 'may' be able to detect the difference between semtex and toothpaste) be installed at all airports...Minot, North Dakota will have to double the size of their terminal to fit it in, but hey! that's the price of security!

Meanwhile, giggling terrorists will be blowing up transmission lines and bridges because we are too PC to stop them 'without due cause'....

who, me? Cynical? Nawwwww...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 11:14 PM

"what in hell is the point of banning books?"

Well, there just MIGHT be something hidden in the pages, if you can take it into the toilet and piss on it, it might reconstitute the explosive...


"or drinks and food that can be purchased at the airport after you clear security?"

Ah, well you see, they MIGHT be able to hide dangerous stuff, and sneak it thru the security check, then they will be able to swap the stuff for the water etc...

And were would they hide all this stuff? Why in the very same place that the people who are busy 'protecting' us hide their brains.... and then apparently there are some naughty ladies as well...

Your Government! Thinking with its a*** so you don't have to use your brain...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 08:02 PM

Even if you wish to accept that the Tare-ists are going to assemble bombs from the contents of their toothpaste tubes and cough syrup bottles, what in hell is the point of banning books? or drinks and food that can be purchased at the airport after you clear security?

Being inconvenienced is one thing; having it done mindlessly is another.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Keef
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:52 PM

Last years London bombings on tube and bus were caused by liquid explosives carried by misguided young men.
The latest plot is very similar but a hundred times more deadly.
Why do so many people prefer to think it is all a government conspiracy rather than what it really is, which is an act of pure unjustifiable evil. No matter what the perceived injustices felt by these people there is nothing that can justify the mass murder of entirely innocent passengers.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:17 PM

Yer missin' th' point, there, Dick.

None of this is supposed to actually accomplish anything worthwhile, but give the impression that Bushie & The Bushites (and by extension, Bushie's Poodle Tony) are "Doin' One Heckuva Job" to protect us from Godless Terrorists (absent the Godless Communists of yore).

And a substantial portion of the brain-dead public and the Congress Critters apparently believe this swill.

God Help America.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 05:43 PM

Well, as might be expected, the counter-measures, no matter how well-intentioned, aren't feasible. Aircraft dont have room to put all of what would normally be carry-on luggage in the checked-=baggage area. Security delays are so lengthy that planes are forced to take off half-empty in order to meet their schedules; there's talk of the airlines suing the British government. Professional musicians who depend on air travel are SOL, as are professionals who have to carry equipment and briefcases.

And I, for one, don't feel a damn bit safer.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 05:23 PM

Time to put your foil hat back on GUEST, the radiation's got yer brain.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 04:34 PM

The FBI allowed the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center to occur:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/wtcbomb.html

Other testimony (which was not allowed in the case by judges, or was discounted by the press) shows the FBI actually recruited the bombers. But the above is the bare minimum. The FBI could have substituted fake explosives and chose not to.

Then, from 2003:

"Other sources within the bureau and the Central Intelligence Agency said the administration is pressuring intelligence agencies to develop "something, anything" to support an array of non-specific terrorism alerts issued by the White House and the Department of Homeland Security...Capitol Hill Blue reported that FBI and CIA sources said a recent White House memo listing the war on terrorism as a definitive political advantage and fund-raising tool is just one of many documents discussing how to best utilize the terrorist threat."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30312

So the govt wants terrorist cases. But there are none. So they create them. They go to Florida, buy some kids some combat boots and then bust them for terrorism:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14897299.htm

This is just a warmed-over version of COINTELPRO, which was...well, read about it here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg03472.html

And the latest airline stuff in Britain is even warmed-over govt plotting. Operation Bojinka:

"One aviation security expert, Douglas Laird, said the thwarted plot eerily resembled a 1994-1995 plan code-named "Bojinka" that Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed had overseen to blow up 11 airliners simultaneously.

In that plot, al-Qaida sympathizers had planned to mix liquid explosives undetectable by most security equipment, smuggle them aboard planes in a contact lens solution bottle and then set them off using a Casio watch as a trigger, FBI documents show."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14280416/page/2

Bojinka, too, was a U.S. govt plan. Ramzi Yousef is a U.S. govt agent, and he's allowed to run around the world doing this kind of stuff:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-2132

The 7/7 bombings in London were a govt. action, too. I think the man who's gathered information on that is named Charles Shoebridge, if you want to do a search.

Look up Operation Northwoods for the 1962 plan by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff to kill Americans to start a war with Cuba. Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act. Kennedy fired the men responsible for the document.

Government-sponsored terrorism has been a fact of life for thousands of years. The people in power create diversions and blame them on enemies to rally populations. But with the internet we're past having to take their word for this kind of garbage. And one instance of terrorism perpetrated by the govt is enough for me. They can't be trusted after that. Blair, Bush, Cheney, Clinton, Queen Elizabeth...they have to go before they throw another REAL terrorist event into the mix.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:55 AM

Those loonies "Myth Busters" - I have some severe problems with some of their 'work' - actually sealed an old fuselage, pumped it up to the correct pressure difference,and shot holes in it. Small bullet holes just caused 'slow leaks' - they did get 'explosive decompression' results, but the necessary 'hull breaches' were pretty dramatic...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: freightdawg
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 11:19 PM

Yo, Skipy, you were right and I need to stick my nose in the corner on that one. For example "A" just recall the 737 in Hawaii that lost a major section of the top of the jet and still stayed in one piece and was able to land.

I guess I was thinking that if the explosion happened at just the right spot (i.e. a spar or major electrical/hydraulic component) then the results would be fatal.

Thanks for the correction

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: skipy
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:14 PM

Got to come onboard on this one!
I am by trade an airframe engineer, punching a hole in the structure e.g. skin is not as big a problem as it seems, there will be at worst an "explosive decompression" this will lead to rapid pressure lost & loose items leaving the aircraft. The pressure drop will cause the release of the emergency oxygen masks, when tugged from their housings these will supply oxygen to the bearer ( note, put yours on first before trying to help your child! you will manage it with plenty of time to help others, if you try to help them first you may fail & them you are both done for! ) There will then be a "rapid descent" to 10,000 ft or below, you can breathe from there easily.
The real problem is serious structural damage, spar failure or similar, result curtains for all, explosion in fuel tank, you won't even know about it.
Hope none of us even try out the first option.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST,Another.GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:09 PM

Hey you lot, leave GUEST alone.

Everything becomes clear when you understand just how pervasive State Control is in this modern age.   Not many of us realise that 9-11 was actually organized and carried out by U.S. government agents in order for Big Business to make mega-bucks over the last 6 years.   

Personally, I have serious doubts about whether World War 2 actually took place, but that is just a personal thing.   

But one truth constantly denied by the West is that no muslim has in any way harmed or injured any living soul since the end of the Crusades (for which actions carried out then they have humbly and repeatedly apologised over the centuries).   

The media is either a part of the conspiracy, or an unwitting pawn.   When you see in the press that Bin Laden is quoted as saying something like "in the name of Allah, all true believers must wage war on the decadent West", you will find that the original words were "Be true to our faith and live and let live.   Walk in peace".   

And the Taliban - there never was anything like that in Afghanistan (a wonderful freedom loving democracy until invaded by Christian soldiers).   The blowing up of the Buddha statues was with explosives only available to CIA operatives - need I say more?

GUEST has got it right.   Wake up and listen to him.

And go out and hug the next Muslim you meet.   

If you can't find a Muslim, any member of any ethnic minority will do for the time being.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:02 PM

well, yesterday at 5:05PM I predicted that someone with clout would soon be promoting serious profiling...today at 4PM, on MSNBC, one of their major anchors, Tucker Carlson, did PRECISELY that.

He had a spokesman for a US Muslim organization on, asking him why we shouldn't be specifically watching for young Muslim men, rather than "little old Black ladies in wheelchairs" and other clearly non-threatening travelers.

He got, of course, the usual "we must remember what the basic principles this country stands for, and that the best defense against terrorism is developing a good dialogue, so that Muslims feel safe in their Mosques and....." the usual suggestion that "it ain't fair to pick on us". When Carlson tried to pin him down about how almost EVERY terrorist identified in the last few years WAS a young Muslim, he got evasive answers and red herrings.

(Carlson was very careful to agree and admit that MOST Muslims do not commit these acts, and that much care needed to be taken...he just kept asking why we are working so hard to be PC, when 99+% of airline passengers DO NOT FIT the profile of hijackers & bombers!)

There were no good answers forthcoming...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: freightdawg
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:47 PM

Dick, actually all you would need to do would be to punch a hole in the thin aluminium skin of the plane. The pressure inside the cabin while the plane is at 30-40 thousand feet is immense. One tiny little hole and the pressure inside the cabin would finish the plane. Add that to the fact it would be over the ocean with virtually no chance to discover where the explosive was or what type it was and the plan is pretty ingenious.

What I don't get is that if you can blow a plane up with the contents in the cabin, what is to keep you from mixing the ingredients up before hand, stowing them in your checked baggage, and then detonating the thing when you are over the ocean. Do they think the terrorists are really that stupid not to figure that one little issue out?

Oh, well. If it was a real threat I hope they caught the perpetrators. Better to have all this debate than thousands of dead and missing loved ones.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 04:43 PM

The irritating thing, to me at least, is the almost total irrelevancy of the security measures to the actual danger. Seems to me that using the contents of, say, a paperback book or a tube of toothpaste is not the most direct nor effective way of blowing up an airplane.

Yes, terrorism is a definite threat. But let's be real about trying to deal with it.

And Dave--over here, in the 60's, we had protesters blowing up things. Admittedly these were more-or-less targeted attackes, rather than simple terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 02:07 PM

Exactly, Bill. When we felt left out and excluded we went on some peace marches and smoked some dope. We knew it was the man doing his best to bust us. These guys don't know that they think it has something to do with the west hating them and the only way to fight against such a mighty power is with bombs and terrorism. They need to learn the truth by getting out more. Well, out of the reach of their peers anyway. Or maybe out of their heads...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Wesley S
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 02:07 PM

Guest - I wish you had some links to back up your claims.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 01:46 PM

"We feel left out and excluded. "

therefore, "we'll just blow up a few thousand random people..that'll show 'em!"

You bet...you won't be left out again..although you may not like the way you are INcluded.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 01:42 PM

In Florida recently, a "terrorist bust" turned out to be a group of semi-literate ganga head Haitians. They were paid 50 thousand dollars to "act like al Qeada" by the FBI. Same with that nonsense in Ottawa. That country's Gestapo delivered some chemicals to an address and then busted the people there.

These are STAGED events. The shoe-bomber was a literal drooling idiot. The passenger thought the drool running off his lip meant he was ill, and the stewardess was notified. Geez. GOVT-CONTROLLED MIND SLAVE. And now you all have to walk around without shoes at airports.

Bush and his people were on the anti-anthrax antibiotic Cipro on Sept 10. A week later people started dying from anthrax. Now in the US there are a hundred additional postal laws because of the "anthrax scare."

It is ALL government-sponsored terrorism. If this was pure, from the gut hatred of America or Jews by the Arabs, why aren't bombs going off right now in the Jewish garment district of NYC? Or the diamond district? Or in Jewish-controlled Hollywood? Because avg people aren't like that and just want to be left alone.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 11:21 AM

You don't like banjos either then eh Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 11:12 AM

They were just showing an interview with a Moslem man of around 20 something - The age of most of those arrested. He said these things (terror attacks by Moslems) are happeming because 'We feel left out and excluded. We have no conrol over what is happening'.

Now, is it just me or does that sound familiar to you? Didn't we ALL say this in our dim and distant youth? Why is not obvious that this is a thing that all young men go through. It is not the exclusive right of Moslems or Black People or Hippies or Punks. Then the answer was shown as clear as anything.

The young man interviewed was from an area of Birmingham that has a 95% Moslem majority - Most of those from Pakistan. He doesn't know any better. While I 'fought the establishment' alongside my Black, White, Jewish and Christian peers this guy doesn't. All he sees is other Moslems. The only people he speaks to are other Moslems. He sees the establishment as being anti-Moslem. We know it isn't. It's just anti young men (and women of course!)

Lets end this lunacy. Stop this ridiculous Apartheid system we have and break up the envlaves. Lets show this young man and his peers that 'the man' doesn't have it in for Pakistanis. Let him see that White Christian young men are treated equaly badly. He may continue to fight but at least it will be for the right reasons!

What am I on about? Dunno. Been off ill all week and have too much time on my hands...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: bill\sables
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 10:58 AM

Dick leave your banjo in the US and use one of mine while you are here
Bill

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 10:50 AM

Has nobody told you that banjos are banned in England? I'll take it off your hands if you can't return with it. My Grandfather used to play one, made by a company called Walliostros, or something like that.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 10:31 AM

It looks like I may be able to take a banjo into the UK, but I may not be able to take it back. Anyone in England want to buy a rather nice, fairly inexpensive SAGA Banjeaurine?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:47 AM

At least you got home safely bbc and thank goodness for that.

I bet you have some idea of how it must feel for the innocent lebanese and innocent iraqi's caught up in this vicious world and are unlucky enough to be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I am afraid the Muslim militants and America and Britain and Israel amongst others, have a lot to answer for. How can they defend the killing of such innocent people.

Religion stinks.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 04:49 AM

Yes, the fears of an attack could have been genuine, but please forgive me for feeling that this could be another `security scare, remember the tanks and military at Heathrow Airport a few years ago, this turned out to be another bluff by Blair, to show the public how alert his sceurity personnel were.

John Reid the British home secetary should have thanked the public for their, tolerance,patience,and GULLIBILITY.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: bbc
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 04:39 AM

David & I flew back to the U.S. today (August 10) from Manchester & it was no fun. 2 hours for check-in & security, 4 hours sitting on the plane while manual security check was done in the U.S. on each passenger. I got up at 5:45 am & it was after 2:30 pm till they could serve any food. All we had on the plane w/ us were id papers, wallets, & tissues. I couldn't bring my purse, water, snacks, book--which made the 7 hour (plus 4) quite uncomfortable. 2 body searches. When we arrived at JFK in New York, it was about an hour through customs & another hour to collect our luggage. We had missed our connecting flight & been rescheduled for 4 pm to 8 pm. The 8 pm flight was delayed till 11 pm. Then, they told us it was cancelled & we might get out on standby the next day (or is it today?!) A kind couple offered us a ride to Albany in their car (4 hours). We got in at 4 pm after being up continuously. Now, we need to see if we can collect our luggage tomorrow. It's a great opportunity for thieves since we had to bundle our cameras, purses, Ipods, & all quickly into our unlocked suitcases. I'm glad I arrived safely & we all tried to make the best of it, but it was an awful day.

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 01:15 AM

LXIX

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 01:15 AM

We're a target rich environment. It is every citizen's duty to do their part in the war on terrorism, and that includes being terrorized by ANY government.

I think the perception here is whether there is a war on or not.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 12:06 AM

If America is involved in a war on terrorism, why are the Mexican and Canadian borders not closed? "Eleven Egyptians" didn't show up at their school the other day, while thousands of criminals poured across the Mexican border. But which did they report on the news? Our govts are the terrorists. Our govts are making sure foreigners flood into our countries. Our govts are jealous of our liberties and are taking them away. Our govts have clamped down on the airports so they can disarm passengers, thus rendering them defenseless when a true threat is initiated onboard by, you guessed it, the government. In Britain you are spied upon endlessly, yet you're arrested if you try to listen in on a phone call made by that old whore Camilla Gorilla. We are cattle in the eyes of the blood-sucking elite. Wake up and feel the wounds on your necks. Another terrorist attack is surely coming, but don't turn to the govt for advice and protection afterward. They DID the attack. REFUSE their "vaccines" against the Iranian crotch-rot. REFUSE the bus ride to the "Iranian-free" collection points. Beat the crap out of the arm-banded bureaucrats who tell you you "have" to get on the bus. Or better yet, give them a dose of lead. In Britain you'll have to make do with a pointy stick, but stick it to them anyway. Govt only exists to grow larger and take more control of your life, and they're about to grab for the whole enchilada. Make 'em pay.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: number 6
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:22 PM

Why do I even bother.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:09 PM

Duh-oh!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: number 6
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:06 PM

Why be fully prepared, is there someone, somewhere who is a threat?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:56 PM

It's even worse when your opponent is unarmed.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:51 PM

It's no fun having a battle of wits with those who are only half prepared...

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: number 6
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:39 PM

Interesting ... when these incidents are reported there seems to be a tendency to scoff them off as just 'fear mongering', propaganda whatever ... now if if this incident wasn't caught and diverted and let's say ten airliners blew up killing a thousand plus passengers everyone would be criticising and demanding an explanation from the government's of the intended target .... and then war drums would beat even louder for revenge.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: number 6
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:33 PM

Don't worry foolestroupe ... it'll never even be noticed.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:30 PM

You never had a wit to remove.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:20 PM

It seems as if I will not be able to travel on planes now - people now have to remove all sharp items.

How do I remove my wit?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:57 PM

Good luck with that Rap - I'm hoping the situation will have settled down by next Wednesday.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:55 PM

Tomorrow, tomorrow
I hope to fly
Tomorrow
It's only a day away....

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:48 PM

Right now this is the rule for travel from the UK.

New Carry-On Baggage Restrictions FROM The United Kingdom
Effective immediately all carry-on baggage must be processed as checked baggage for all flights departing from airports in the United Kingdom (U.K.). Due to these changes, American Airlines will waive excess baggage charges through August 17, 2006, for those passengers who need to check their carry-on bags due to these new restrictions, up to a maximum of two excess pieces.

Nothing may be carried in passengers' pockets. Passengers may only take the following items through the airport security checkpoint, in a single transparent plastic bag:
pocket size wallets and pocket size purses plus contents (money, credit cards, identity cards, etc. but not handbags or purses)
travel documents essential for the journey (passports and travel tickets)
prescription medicines and medical items sufficient and essential for the flight (a diabetic kit for example), except in liquid form unless verified as authentic.
eye glasses and sunglasses, without cases
contact lens cases, without bottles of solution
for those travelling with an infant: baby food, milk (the contents of each bottle must be tasted by the accompanying passenger) and sanitary items sufficient and essential for the flight (wipes, creams, disposal bags)
female sanitary items sufficient and essential for the flight, if unboxed
tissues (unboxed) and/or handkerchiefs
keys (but no electrical key fobs)
If an item does not appear in the list above it is NOT allowed. Additionally, no liquids, gels or other items of similar consistency are permitted to enter the sterile areas except for a) baby formula, breast milk, or juice if a baby or small child is traveling; b) prescription medicine with a name that matches the passenger's travel documents; c) insulin and essential other non-prescription medicines. This also includes liquids and gel products purchased as duty free.

All U.K. transiting passengers will be required to check any carry-ons they bring to the airport regardless of origination. Passengers who have already departed the US and will be connecting in the UK will not be allowed to use the transit area in the UK airports and will be routed back to the ticket counters to check their carry-on luggage.

This comes from the American Airline website.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:37 PM

Well put Bob that is about what it adds up to.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Deckman
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:29 PM

I'm finding this story and the reactions to it very telling! I am an American. I can't help that. I was born here ... it was my parent's fault.

My intial reaction to this story was: "BULLSHIT! This is just more evidence of President george bush's (I refuse to capitalize his name) determination to sway the upcoming election."

Then I thought: "Geeze Louise! This story comes out of G.B. Maybe there's some truth behind it?" Then I thought: "Wait a minute. Tony Blair is in as much hot water as george bush. Maybe he started it for the same reasons."

The bottom line is this story demonstrates just how much DISSTRUST I now have of the American government. And I find that very sad and very damaging.

Best wishes, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:26 PM

He's not fighting that war...he's pouring billions down a hole elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:18 PM

I think you can still take on a book.

I think the aircraft hostess will still pour you a coffee.

If a guy can bring an explosive shoe-heel onto an airplane, I can believe that more guys can try something new to do the same thing, blow our aircraft up.

I may not be a fan of our President, but if he knows there's a war on and you folks don't he's smarter than you.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 07:47 PM

Guest 3.06 pm at least put your name to your shit, will save me naming you.
Anyway still no bombs found and paranoia sweeping the country. 24 being held. Wonder where they will site the British Guantanamo Bay ?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 07:05 PM

No coffee? I'm trying not to panic, but really, they'll have a riot on their hands!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 06:49 PM

Worst of all, you can't take on a BOOK! A seven hour flight with nothing to read? I'll stay at home.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: skipy
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 06:37 PM

O/K, This is not for fun! They are now stoping (quite rightly) all forms of liquids carried in bottles or cans etc. that is causing enough problems as it is, but lets be quite real here they are not carrying out cavity searches & we can all swallow or otherwise "hide" items! If an aircraft can be taken out by the contents of one hollowed out shoe heel then we can still get a quantity larger than this on board, where will this end? The easiest way to take weapons aboard is via staff loading food, suitcases etc. or even easier items placed behind removable panels during servicing, what would I know? well with near to 30 years service as an aircraft engineer I could do it next week no problems! Better still place it in a fuel tank during servicing! This is the real world, they are clever, very clever, don't ever underestimate them!
Skipy
Not in a playful mood!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 06:13 PM

Let's put things into perspective. Many complaints (and a new book on the subject) that the CIA and FBI were not cooperating and could have prevented the tragedy. The new book seems very well documented and shows that it could have been prevented---had CIA told the FBI about who and where the perpetrators were. They did not.

So--now there seems to be cooperation between our agencies and the UK. Let us not be cynical if we expect to be protected.

I think "W"s comments, as usual, were inflamatory. As to our being "safer" that is a crock. Had he not lied and gone into Iraq and only did what had to be done in Afghanistan that might, perhaps, be the case. We are in more danger and our soldiers are dying for a wasted cause---an artificial state having our version democracy stuffed down their non-accepting throats.

Since we allow death in Darfur and other African nations (that have no oil) is it not huberus to speak of our ideals? Our vision of democracy?

Summing up---we are not safer and, perhaps, these varied agencies have finally gotten it right. Let us not be that cynical.

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 06:12 PM

"They can't put explosives in **factory sealed** sports drinks!"

"Sure they can. Factory seals mean nothing."

hmmm..seems to be a minor disagreement over facts here. I was of the impression that factory seals indicated it contained what the label said.

Inspection...they already inspect everything you carry. How hard can it be to look at the seal?

.....I really think I'd RATHER be inspected live, than have the bad guys figure out how to put timers into checked luggage.

We really need to solve this idea of checking absolutely everything.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 06:01 PM

British: Thwarted plot involved 10 jets

By DANICA KIRKA, Associated Press
Last updated: 17:36 EDT., Thursday, August 10, 2006

LONDON -- British authorities said Thursday they thwarted a terrorist plot to simultaneously blow up 10 aircraft heading to the U.S. using explosives smuggled in hand luggage, averting what police described as "mass murder on an unimaginable scale."

Britain disclosed no details [emphasis mine] about the plot or those arrested, although one police official indicated the people in custody were British residents.

Now, here's the important part, vis a vis the November elections:

President Bush called the plot a "stark reminder" of the continued threat to the United States from extremist Muslims...Bush said during a visit to Green Bay, Wis., that the foiled plot was a "stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists."

i.e: Vote Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:28 PM

Sure they can. Factory seals mean nothing. The main thing is that in order to process the number of folks they have to they won't be able to take the time to inspect the factory seals.

Now if you want to get ahold of some flammible liquids on an airplane you can start with the vodka on the drink carts.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:11 PM

Thet can't put explosives in **factory sealed** sports drinks!

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:09 PM

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Terrorists planned to concoct an "explosive cocktail" using MP3 players and sports drinks to blow up as many as 10 jetliners bound for the United States, authorities said Thursday.

Which makes as much sense as the rest. I hope something gets sorted out by August 17, when Susan and I leave for England.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:05 PM

It is TOTALLY stupid to just make everyone give up the standard items of everyday comfort. I just saw a middle-aged woman forced to throw away a couple hundred dollars worth of cosmetics ....even tootpaste!

This solves **NOTHING**....I'm sorry, but what is needed is the dreaded...*stereotyped, targeted, profiled enforcement*

"Oh HORRORS! How very non-P.C. of you, Bill D!"

yep...indeed, and it is with great reluctance that I say that, but for the last 5 years, every case I have seen of any attempts at terrorism has been from a very narrowly defined age & ethnic group. Little old ladies do NOT, as the woman said, blow up planes using 'blush'!

I remember flying several years ago, when they started using the 'random' searches at boarding gates, watching a business man and a middle-aged lady having their shoes & luggage searched, while several 'interesting' guys stood there with no interference at all.

Yes...I am TOTALLY aware that this would be awkward and in many ways 'unfair' to the large body of innocents, (and I don't believe for a minute that it is likely in the near future!), but ultimately, it will be suggested by someone with clout and authority. That's a prediction...and I'd bet it is de facto quietly being used already.

If I were a terrorist, I would be laughing as we scuttle about, spending billions to x-ray, scan, search and harass everyone who comes near an airport...then I'd go blow up another train or a bridge or a tunnel...or even a building.

This type of senseless over-reaction could seriously stifle general air traffic, making it too troublesome and expensive to fly...leaving only the rich with private planes able to get around.

Now, before you flame me as a prejudiced idiot....re-read exactly what I said!

We CANNOT prevent crazy people from trying to hurt us, but we CAN avoid being totally crazy ourselves, and be content with a HIGH degree of security!

Factory sealed WATER bottles? Perfume?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:38 PM

Give one of us a call when you have some free time in town.


I'll buy the first beer ( local brewpub)

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:30 PM

wave as you pass by, Rapaire...(you gotta stop & say hello one of these times...or make the Getaway)

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:29 PM

I rarely agree with Guest282RA but I believe this time he is right. Screw with our food supply and create nationwide chaos. Supermarket shelves empty in a matter of hours when a hurricane or major storm is predicted. After the 911 attacks, there was no milk or bread to be had in my neighborhood for two days.

Imagine even the scare of poisoned food?
Anyone remember Israel oranges injected with poison or cranberries coated in poisonous insecticide?

I look to the food supply for the next attack. The constant TV Public Service messages suggesting that I "pick up a few extra cans of food to stock up in case of emergency" make me think that the Powers That Be expect the same.

Meantime, as on September 12, 2001, it is safer to fly now than it was two days ago.

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 03:40 PM

You know, it really doesn't matter one whit who did what. People have been frightened, inconvenienced, and in general again shat upon. If it was because of terrrorist actually planning something, they've won. If it were government, they've won.

I fly to BWI tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 03:33 PM

Well, on a somewhat somber note, aren't the terrorists 'due' to show that they can bring something off rather than simply kill their own people?

On an even more somber note was the reference in England to 'homegrown'.

Let's see how the 'FACTS' add up, this is just the first wave of response and it may be hard to believe for you folks on the East side of the pond, but we Yanks tend to believe the English.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 03:10 PM

You know, the 5th anniversary of September 11th is coming up. Some terrorists like to commemorate their "acts of terror" with another "act of terror."

I would not fly anywhere this September 11th.

Yes, I'm acting like an alarmist.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 03:06 PM

Divis Sweeney,

You are an unintelligent fool!

Can you really not get it???

Can you make 4 from 2+2?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 03:03 PM

To the unnamed Guest who thinks that this is a political "cover-up", I would quote Sherlock Holmes:

"Don't you see that you alternately give [the government] credit for having too much imagination and too little?"

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 02:55 PM

Terrorists are the ones with the small bombs, this load of crap is to make Blair look good and some families in London tonight will get the windows broke and some kids in a police station is getting his crap knocked out just like the Irish in the seventies, later released on false charges. Well at least no children in the Lebanon lying in bits will make the news tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 02:27 PM

I've jusr spoken to my daughter in the Uk who has told me that passengers are not allowed to take on any cabin baggage, apart from essential medicines, baby items (which must be tasted by the carrier at the checkpoint) and wallets and change purses. There are major delays at UK airports while security checks are being carried out.

Timw will tell whether this is a false alarm. At some time the people being held will either have to be charged or released and, in the UK, this is likely to be made public fairly fast.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST,2
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 02:10 PM

"Again it's a government PR stunt...
It's a scam, folks...
Your govts are playing you...
Election year garbage of a political party running scared...
it's a government PR stunt...
The govt did it, the govt did it, the govt did it...
Load of tripe to divert minds from other matters...
Yet again the British government make up another story"


Well, now that we have heard from an expert at talking out of his ass, perhaps we can put this crap aside and wait for some facts.

Pre-judging is not doing anyone good. The sadistic prick who posted the above messages is no better than the weasels he is accusing of making this shit up.   We do not need trolls, we need common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:51 PM

The whole flying focus is a farce. A diversion. You can fly a private plane in and out of US airports without any harrassment from "security." That's what Rush Limbaugh was so upset about when he got popped for drugs again a couple months ago. He said, "You never check private planes."

It's a scam, folks. Airports are "international" and not subject to the rules that govern your town. So, military can strut around with automatic weapons and do cavity searches on you at will. But only in airports. They just focus media attn on airports to get you acclimated to what's expected of you in the coming police state. You see film of cringing passengers, hear the officials use a variation of the word "terror" in every other sentence, and see the "military presence." You're being brainwashed.

Your govts are playing you, bongoheads. When the next attack comes, think Blair. Think Queen Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg. Think Cheney & Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: jaze
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:45 PM

Hmmm, I wonder how long it will take to trace this to...IRAN, hence prompting a now justified attack?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:24 PM

I posted a few months ago about how easy it would to commit mass murder on far more horrific scale than this pathetic bullshit. There is no credible reason to risk detection trying to blow up planes when poisoning the food supply is so much easier and has a far more devasting effect. The chances of being caught are practically nil. Election year garbage of a political party running scared.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:14 PM

TSA didn't say....

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 12:34 PM

"DHS has also mandated that all flights from the United Kingdom transmit passenger manifest information for intensive screening prior to departure from the gate." - Hmm didn't the EC have something to sayabout that?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 12:15 PM

Here's the official Word from the TSA website:

Raised Threat Levels:

The U.S. threat level is raised to High, or Orange, for all commercial aviation operating in the United States, including international flights. Flights from the United States to the United Kingdom are also Orange.The U.S. threat level is raised to Severe, or Red, for all commercial flights flying from the United Kingdom to the United States.

The U.S. threat level is raised to High, or Orange, for all commercial aviation operating in the United States, including international flights. Flights from the United States to the United Kingdom are also Orange.

Increased Aviation Screening Procedures:

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is implementing a series of security measures, some visible and some not visible, to ensure the security of the traveling public and the nation's transportation system.

TSA is immediately implementing the following changes to airport screening procedures:

NO LIQUIDS OR GELS OF ANY KIND WILL BE PERMITTED IN CARRY-ON BAGGAGE.

SUCH ITEMS MUST BE IN CHECKED BAGGAGE. This includes all beverages, shampoo, suntan lotion, creams, tooth paste, hair gel, and other items of similar consistency.

Exceptions: Baby formula and medicines, which must be presented for inspection at the checkpoint.

Beverages purchased in the boarding area, beyond the checkpoint, must be consumed before boarding because they will not be permitted onboard the aircraft.

Passengers traveling from the United Kingdom to the United States will be subject to a more extensive screening process.

These measures will be constantly evaluated and updated as circumstances warrant.

How every passenger can assist in security:

    * Pack lightly, without clutter, to facilitate easier screening.
    * Arrive earlier than usual at the airport.
    * Cooperate with TSA personnel at checkpoints and with airline personnel at all gates.
    * Be attentive and vigilant to any suspicious activity and report it to authorities.

Increased Border Protection Procedures:

U.S. Customs and Border Protection will increase enforcement efforts in international arrival areas including the use of advanced targeting tools, special response teams including baggage and aircraft search teams, baggage x-ray equipment, specially-trained canine units, and explosive detection technology.

DHS has also mandated that all flights from the United Kingdom transmit passenger manifest information for intensive screening prior to departure from the gate. In addition, passengers on these flights and all other international flights will be subject to heightened inspection upon arrival in the United States.

Apparently it's no carry-on bags AT ALL in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 12:13 PM

Beirut airport bombed, Lebanon flattened by US made bombs, the real terrorists are responsible for the deaths of thousands in the middle east.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 12:01 PM

Assuming a real threat a ban on those items being carried on board does not address lethal stuff in the belly of the plane. Look at Lockerbie.

I still think the day will/should come when passengers and their belongings will fly in separate planes. I can imagine the chaos while the logistics of reunion are being determined and enacted but that single act would remove almost all of the opportunity and all of the motivation. No terrorist organization is going to brag about blowing up luggage.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mr Fox
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM

Hey, John, don't bring logic into this. If 'they' want not to be criticised they shouldn't have asked us to vote for them.

Moaning about the government and/or the police is Britain's national sport.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:04 AM

So put them in luggage hole and let that blow up. See still no bombs found. Again it's a government PR stunt. Tony Blair left the country and flew to America yesterday knowing about it. Well keeps him off the news and calling Israel naughty boys.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:36 AM

BBC America News is saying no cell phones, no iPods, no mp3 players no laptops.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:12 AM

Let me see if understand aright the jist of this thing: if the auhorities act as if there is a threat, they are doing it for some ulterior motive; if the thing threatened doesn't happen, perhaps even because of such action, that just proves there wasn't a threat. On the other hand, if the authorities act not, and the threat becomes reality, then the authorities were derelict in their duty. Gee, that's a real win/win for them.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mr Fox
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:51 AM

The Met Police have apparently arrested some people. Perhaps it's genuine this time - there's no reports of them shooting anybody yet.

Cynical? Moi?

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:43 AM

According to the TSA website, the only change as of this morning is the banning of all liquids from carry-on luggage. The most recent list (March 2006) allows both cell phones and laptops in carry-on.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:27 AM

The govt did it, the govt did it, the govt did it. If 1 billion plus "Arab terrorists" hate the western world so much, why isn't the western world in flames? It's a scam, folks. The people who gain from this nonsense are the govts in charge. Shake your cage to scare you, then shake a little more money out of your pockets to "fix" the problem. Oh, and take away a few more rights and show you film of men in black ski masks making you "safe." Quit feeding the lie. You know this is all govt-sponsored terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:22 AM

Also, I think it's interesting that someone posted about Blair drawing attention to what a great job they did averting a tragedy, etc. The conversations in this house had a similar sound to them except that we wondered about the Lieberman upset....he was a huge supporter of GWBush and what has been his message all along? TERRORIST this TERRORIST that....so what happens the day after Lieberman loses out in a historic kind of way? A terrorist plot....go figure.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:19 AM

Amerigin,
   You'd better check the news. You can't take that stuff on board. Not only that, you can't take your car keys either (I'm thinking they are referring to the remote clickers). No liquids or gels or lotions...that means no water bottles, no shampoo, no toothpaste, no moisturizer, no hand cream....wow.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Amergin
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:15 AM

No cell phones, laptops, iPods, etc. in the carry ons.


Since when? I carry my mp3 player and my laptop on the plane...will not put those in my checked luggage. Granted you have to take them out of the bag when running them through...but laptops are considered a personal item, like a purse.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:11 AM

I fly SLC to BWI tomorrow. No liquids or gels in the carry on bags. Take off your shoes. No cell phones, laptops, iPods, etc. in the carry on. Get there two hours early. Blah blah blah. Been there.

I once bought a Fairbairn knife at the airport and flew home with it in my carry on bags....

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:46 AM

Simple solution. America and Britain keep their noses out of other countries affairs.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:32 AM

Well, I'm a bit concerned as I will be flying to Heathrow next Wednesday and back to Boston three weeks later.

What this will mean to me will be a longer checking in time and having to rethink what goes where in my luggage. I usually carry toiletries in cabin baggage to allow for lost bags but that will be a no no this time. However, just in case this is a the real deal I would rather have security tightened up.

It's possible that this is a diversion for other news that the UK government wants to bury. Same seems to happen in the USA - it's just that Bird Flu gets yet another airing. However, the story of the little boy who cried wolf is still valid.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mr Yellow
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 07:48 AM

Yea yea, no hand luggage on flights - even spectacle cases are banned - really make Tony Blair popular won't it? and flying. Yea sure - half cocked response to 20 miscreants, red faces in the police and security community. Just what they want - innit?

Yea sure - not a real alert. But a real wheeze.

Yea yea yea.............. best be sorry than safe. Yea yea.

It'll never happen to us..........

'scuse me while I bury my head in the sand...............

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 07:09 AM

Nothing yet found. Load of tripe to divert minds from other matters. Put fear into people. It's well known the first week of August sees most U.K. residents go on holiday. They are so shallow.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Mr Fox
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:03 AM

The police tend to do things like this to divert attention from something they find embarrassing. There's probably a report on the tube shooting coming out.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:12 AM

Yet again the British government make up another story and how we should congratulate their intelligence services for averting a terrorist attack of indescribable horror. Load of rubbish. This story seems to appear every couple of months. Makes Blair look good.
Fine if you want your own intelligence insulted.

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:02 AM

I suppose you're referring to this (click):

U.K.: Plot to bomb U.S.-bound planes foiled
Arrests made in plot to smuggle explosives aboard aircraft, police say

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 31 minutes ago

LONDON - British authorities thwarted a terrorist plot to blow up several aircraft mid-flight between the United States and Britain using explosives smuggled in hand luggage, officials said Thursday.

Well, I think we have a tendency to respond by counterattacking large populations of people who have nothing to do with terrorism. I think that our responses to terrorism have been misdirected and ineffective, and have only served to make a bad situation worse by destroying any sympathy the world had for us.

So, yeah, I think we need to re-think things - to respond, but to respond judiciously.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: London Bombs
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:01 AM

Troll

Subject: BS: London Bombs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 03:40 AM

I'm just waiting for someone to start banging on about if only we pulled out of Afghanistan / Iraq / stopped supporting Israel etc these things wouldn't happen

Wake up you dumbos. We're being attacked by people who hate us and the values - free speech and democracy - that we subscribe to.