Mutes

Subject: Mutes
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 27 Feb 99 - 12:16 AM

There have been several times over the years when I have had occassion to use a mute. Sometimes to get a more mellow sound when backing up a singer, backing up another instrument that has less volume, or at times by request. The question that has always bothered me is just where does all of that sound go? Logic would have it that the mute absorbs the sound. If that is the case, could it be possible to release the absorbed sound from the mute? One instant that comes to mind was the time I carved a fiddle mute from a piece of green pine. As the mute dried out it would no longer stay on the bridge and I ended up tossing it into a campfire. It sputtered a few times and popped. Could that have been due to the release of compressed music? I am curious to know if any others have had any similar experiences or may have possibly researched this matter.

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Hank
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 09:25 AM

As I play the mandolin I don't have or need a mute, when the rest of you go looking for a mute I can just play forte instead of as loud as I can.

Mutes do as you suspected absorbe the sound, but it is more complex then that. You have always heard philosphers wonder "If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there does it make a noise?" Well, as a country boy who used to heat with wood I studyied that, and have conclued that you are right, fire does release it. Those sputters you heard was all the pent up music, and the pop (which you may have noticed was much bigger) was the release of the sound from all the trees that fell in the forest during that tree's lifetime when noone was around to hear it. Promiss you won't tell anyone, because if the philosphers figgure it out they will have to work on a new problems which (as a philospher who knows) I can assure you is far more maddening.

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: mountain tyme
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 01:14 PM

Having done exhaustive research in the use of the mute I have noted all to often beautifull tunes on the fiddle get muted at my sorrow....but....never do I find a mute on a Banjo where I believe it should be found more often than not....just my opinion.

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 06:35 PM

Your secret is safe with me Hank, lets keep the philosophers happy.

I play both the fiddle and banjo, and, believe it or not have mutes for both of these instruments. The mute for the 4 string banjo is made out of metal and seems to be rather unruly at times. There are occasions when it will make a buzzing sound and may actually jump off the bridge altogether. Most likely metal does not absorb sound as easily as wood.

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 06:43 PM

Capt'n Bob, you have partially explained one of life's mysteries for me, but have also raised another dilemma.

The next time you have a camp-fire put a Bay City Rollers vinyl single on it (you will hear the equivalent of two songs worth of energy being released). Then try it with an equivalent LP (with say a dozen songs on it) - it makes sense that you will hear approx 6 times the volume. That's logical isn't it?

But try it with a CD with lots of songs on it, and you'll hear virtually nothing. Why is it so??

Regards
John

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Mike Billo
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 07:09 PM

I apologize in advance for this joke, but I just couldn't hold out any longer. A banjo player walks into a music store, and places his banjo in front of the shopkeeper, "I'd like a mute for this" he says. The shopkeeper replied , " Sounds like a fair trade to me".

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 11:05 PM

John, your dilemma is solved.

It's really quite simple. When it comes to campfires CD's are digital while vinyls and LP's are add-a-log.

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: mountain tyme
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 11:15 PM

I apoligize to Cap't Bob. I also use my metal fiddle mute on my banjo. We may be one of the fortunate few who have ever heard how lovely a banjo can sound. I play an arch top and use a banjo bridge with an inlay of stainless steel and total weight of one gram so when it is loud it is vvveerrryy loud. In response to Hanks' "Tree in the forrest" If a man goes into the deep forest, far beyond the earshot of any woman.....and speaks his mind so that only the trees can hear....is he still wrong?

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 03:28 AM

My old banjo had an open back, so it was a simple matter to stuff a handkerchief or a duster between the skin and the post. My current banjo has a back, though; try as I might I just can't get my hankie through the tiny gap. I tried stuffing it between the skin and the strings, which kills the sound completely, except for a very muffled sort of "thud" when you hit a string. People tell me this is acceptable. The only problem is, I'm getting a cold and I'm frightened to take out my hankie!

Steve

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 04:30 AM

G'day,
Hate to spoil a good thread with boring facts, but when something like a mute absorbs energy such as sound it gets converted to heat. if you could measure it before it cooled down you'd find a tiny temperature rise.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 11:43 PM

Don't feel too bad Alan, I guess I always knew deep within my heart that the Law of conservation of energy would eventually rear its ugly head and delve into the realm of esthetics. You did, however, solve a problem for me. I normally heat the house with wood during the long Northern Michigan winters. If your theory holds true and I can do enough fiddling, get enough mutes. and keep the heat in them till winter, I may just be able to heat the house with those little devices. It looks like jigs and reels all summer!

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 03 Mar 99 - 05:36 AM

G'day,
Gee ... the conservation of energy theorem sounds like a good excuse for makin' music. Now if we bring the theory of relativity into it you can have your whole family doin' it too.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 03 Mar 99 - 08:08 PM

Well done for some very clever puns guys. I had a long chuckle over add a log.

Regards
John

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Mar 99 - 11:36 PM

What the hell are you guys smokin' anyway???

Hankies, add-a-log, the pop of compressed musical energy? Tell you what Mountain, I'd keep a serious eye on that stuff that 'Paw and Cletus been after. Using this groups premises and logic, a well played, 50 year old D-28 ought to be able to heat a fair sized house for the winter!!!!

catspaw

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: hank
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 08:53 AM

I don't know catspaw, I can't find anyone willing to sacrifice a good D-28 or Loar Mandolin, or Stratvarious Violin to test that theory.

I can mention that lesser insterments that aren't played nearly as much burn hot and fast. (not from personal expirence, but we all know junk insterments that deserve that fate) However the heat doesn't last all winter, it all goes in one shot, so you warm the house up to 80 for a few hours, but you still need more that night, or next morning.

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 04:19 AM

I've just realised what the mudcat logo signifies: an early attempt to mute a banjo with a catfish until this practice was banned by the ASPCA and the Audobon Society. The banjo vs guitar bit on this thread is unseemly guys: "the farmers and the cowboys should be friends"! The Spinners song books had rival songs about why Guitarists/banjoists could/couldn't get into heaven!!

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 06:05 AM

I've just realised what the mudcat logo signifies: an early attempt to mute a banjo with a catfish until this practice was banned by the ASPCA and the Audobon Society. The banjo vs guitar bit on this thread is unseemly guys: "the farmers and the cowboys should be friends"! The Spinners song books had rival songs about why Guitarists/banjoists could/couldn't get into heaven!!

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 08:03 AM

Do you mean mute or mate a catfish with a banjo? The illustration isn't very clear!

Steve

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 08:36 AM

The caption must be missing in your illustration. The catfish is saying:

"BANJOS? BANJOS? We don't need no stinking BANJOS!!!"

Hope this clears things up for you Steve.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 09:38 AM

Steve, owr kid, yo' mussen be rude! Oi don't now if it's mate 'cos the catfish stayed mute! Tarra [OK, so I'm no Jasper Carrot]

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 09:50 AM

Praise God for small mercies, Roger - one's plenty!

It occurs to me that I've got a friend who's a farmer and a cowman. His daughter isn't on The Archers, though, and he doesn't wear a hat with horns. He's a big fan of John Lee Hooker, so he must be ok.

Steve

P.S. Roger, if yo mate a cotfish, ud you shaerk onds wi it?

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 03:00 AM

I mute my banjo with a pair of socks under the coordinating rods. I've tried listening to the socks later, but the cotton doesn't seem to want to give back any sound--but when I put them on my feet...I look pretty stupid clog dancing to the blues. --seed

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 03:35 PM

I mute _my_ banjo by leavin it hanging on the wall where it belongs. (with a dirty J-cloth stuffed behind the co-ordinator rods. ) Maybe that makes the house sound tinny.

Here's a new one...well, maybe not.

An accordion/banjo duo got a gig on St Paddy's day.

No, wait, that's not the punch line!

The pub sold lots of beer and the owner was pleased, and he said: "I want you guys to play here next year on St Paddy's Day."

(Now hold on , that's not it either)

The banjo player replied: "Sure we will! Can we leave our instruments here?"

(Yup, that was it)

Then there was the bluegrass guitar player who locked his keys in his car--took him nearly an hour to jimmy the lock with a clotheshanger and let the banjo player out.

Sorry. I _like_ banjos and accordions. Really I do. I'm just not allowed to play them. So its kind of a mute point.

Bill

Subject: RE: Mutes
From: hank
Date: 08 Mar 99 - 09:33 AM

Well Alan, your paritially right about conservation of energy. You miss some details though. You see wood is a good insulator, which means that the sound travels through the tree, gets convereted to heat throughout the tree, but the heat can't get back out. Now the tree is in danger from all the heat inside, it isn't letting it out (except for a bit near the outside which we can ignore) The wood inside therefore has to turn that heat into something else, lest it start on fire. The something that it gets converted into isn't fully understood by me (hey, I'll bet you don't really understand chaos theory either) but when burned the sound comes back. I tried to simplify this the first time, but obviously some of you want more details.