Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?

Subject: Bohdran makers beware?
From: Effsee
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:14 AM

An artist who made drums out of animal skins is believed to have died of anthrax, health officials said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/4797513.stm

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:21 AM

blue clicky

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: GUEST,Peter Sumner
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:40 AM

This is a potential issue....I first heard about it several months ago...a djembe maker in NYC contracted the disease..but I thought he was making good progress...
I have been told that the spores can be carried in the dust that can be found in some shipments...
Remember, the best skins are quite raw...no processing at all...nailed to a fence and dried..then sent over in bulk, usually in a large roll or folded in half in a large box.
I guess those of us who are making bodhrans..or indeed any type of drum from this kind of material should make our own enquiries as to how we can avoid any possibility of infection.
Perhaps this forum can be the way to inform those who are interested.
My own simple system is to wear a mask and soak the skins in my bath tub with a small amount of bleach..that also helps take care of the pong ....
Any info from the medical field would be most welcome...

Peter Sumner
Los Altos
California

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:35 PM

Bodhran maker you say - nice to get some good news for a change.
Jim Carroll

Subject: Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: GUEST,qtwf
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:52 PM

I know this is being silly and alarmist! Apologies to anyone who knows what a fool I'm being here!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/4797513.stm

If the link fails it's a story of the first UK Anthrax death in thirty years, apparently Christopher "Pascal" Norris died from Anthrax, and they are assuming that he caught it from imported animal hides. He used these hides to make drums, and in a wild leap of madness, I thought Bodhrans!

New they were dodgy all along!

I guess if you've bought one from him, some caution might be warranted?

As I say, probably all stuff and nonsense.

Cheers,

QTWF

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:56 PM

Hmmm... there was a thread on this a few months ago. Can't look for it now... busy.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 03:24 PM

Clearly a case for a product recall like Dell batteries. Or to save time anyone with a bodhran is not allowed to play it anywhere in the world and must produce the ashes where they burnt theirs.

Bodhran = modhran......

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: scouse
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 04:45 PM

Guest.Jim Carroll,Please don't post here again..Life lost no matter whom, is a time for sadness..

As Aye,

Phil

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 05:29 PM

Man dies from 'rare anthrax bug'

Christopher Norris worked with untreated animal hides

A 50-year-old man is believed to have died from the first case of anthrax in Scotland for almost 20 years.
The man, named locally as Christopher "Pascal" Norris, died in July and later tests showed the acute infectious disease was the most likely cause.

NHS Borders said his home at Black Lodge in Stobs, near Hawick in the Scottish Borders, had been cordoned off and an incident control team set up.

The victim made drums with materials such as untreated animal hides.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 05:52 PM

Dear Jim .while I respect some of your opinions, your remark is in poor taste and would be better withdrawn.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:01 PM

Sorry,
I have a poor taste in humour when it comes to bodhrans.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:08 PM

Hello, Jim. Good to see you. It's been a while.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: NH Dave
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:17 PM

This used to be a fairly common occupation hazard for those working with raw - unpreserved - hides, but it has been over 50 years since I have heard about a worker with hides contracting the disease.

Of course, many of the tanneries here in the US have simply disappeared, victims of those unwilling to endure the pong, or because they could no longer discharge their effluents into the nearby river, to the detriment of the plants and fish in the river, and those further down stream.

Dave

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: Mingulay
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:22 PM

When I were a lad back in the early 50's in Nothamptonshire, a county noted for its shoemakers and tanneries, there were still occasional deaths due to anthrax amongst tannery workers. Although most tanneries were producing chrome tanned leather there were still a few that used the old method of soaking skins for months on end. Part of the process involved removing the rotted fat and flesh from the skins which meant pulling them from the pits by hand. A disgusting and very smelly business but it does produce the very finest quality leather.

When my dad were a lad back in the 1920's extra money could be earned by going around and collecting dog shit. This was used in the tanning process to neutralise the lime used in the initial soaking.

The best Morroccan leather uses camel shit for the same purpose.

Sorry about the use of the word shit, but I can't spell dung!!

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware?
From: open mike
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:32 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/08/16/anthrax.death.reut/index.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/16/world/main1898766.shtml

in the u.s. there have been cases of people contracting disease
from handling live animals...specifically rodents...with hanta virus.
some folks who have caught wild rodents to help feed animals
at wild life re-hab centers have died from exposure to virus.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 09:37 PM

Hanta virus, although a genuine hazard, doesn't seem to have any relevance to this case at all.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: Scotus
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:00 PM

I believe that players of the bagpipes might be in danger of lung disease picked up from the leather interior of the bellows (that's the particular form of pipes that involve blowing into the bag with your mouth).

Jack

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:08 PM

Bagpipe bags are made of tanned leather, not rawhide, like a drumhead is, so there should be no risk there. (A tanned hide is flexible, raw hide is stiff except when wet.) Tanners would be at risk from handling the raw hides at the start of the process.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 06:15 AM

I don't believe soaking in weak bleach would reliably dispose of anthrax spores. They're about the toughest pathogens in existence, and can survive in an oxygenated burial site for centuries.

Any reliable treatment (except maybe massive irradiation) would damage the skin beyond usability.

There are some types of bagpipe that use untanned skins, the Black Sea pipe (tulum) from Turkey is one. It's softened by soaking it in olive oil. I've never heard of an anthrax case from it.

Do we know where Norris got his skins from?

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 05:57 PM

Rumor has it that it was put there by a fiddler.

In addition to bodhran makers a number of accordion
repairman have gone into hiding.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 06:22 PM

Quarantine measures disliked by horthern hemisphere countries have been pretty good at keeping anthrax out of Australia so you may wish to help us out with our feral goat problems by sourcing your bodhran/tapan/etc skins from Australia.

GregB's reference to accordion bellows reminds me that the most supple skin I've ever come across (keep your prurient minds quiet) for bellows is from kangaroos. Geoff Wooff skived some beautifully and his (then) wife Joan did an absolutely superb job on the bellows of my Jeffries. I believe Peter Hyde's accordions (it's his real name) use them for bellows and kangaroos have never been known to suffer from anthrax.

I don't wish to rile those who think that all kangaroos must be protected (I protect those that clutter up my driveway every morning) but it is a truly remarkable skin. Probably too good for bodhrans, though.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 11:52 AM

Oh for Christ's sake not something else to be scared of! In the midst of life we are in death! get over it and carry on playing, if it happens it happens, what next, developing skin cancer from constant rubbing against guitar varnish while playing?

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 12:45 PM

I don't think there are any tanners in The Rhondda, but...


Farewell you tannery workers, who work with hides & skins
It's with the product you provide that leathercraft begins
Your working places closing, (just) to keep the effluent down
I'd love to see this trade survive, just not in ou-r town


CHEERS
Nigel
(there may be more to come...)

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 05:56 PM

People on the Footstompin forum are saying Norris made djembes out of roadkill badger skins - as a Buddhist he wouldn't have used imported skins from butchered animals.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins
From: Kaleea
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 06:06 PM

The gentleman who made my Bodhran had a severe illness causing him to be hospitalized. The Dr.s said it was from the goatskins.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: gnu
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:16 PM

Well, as a player, I will just say a thank you to all the makers who so bravely carry on in spite of such ominous perils. These makers deserve to be lauded for their devotion. Such self-sacrifice for the simplest but ultimate instrument is truly sainted.

Hran on.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: GUEST,tom mc
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 12:35 AM

at this moment i have a fine goat skin soaking in a five gallon bucket of lime and water,hopefully in a couple more days it will be hairless. I'm in wyoming and haven't heard about any anthrax here. would be nice to get a possitive yes or no on whether or not this poor fella did die of anthrax,if he was Buddhist, and what they did with his instruments,hides etc.

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: GUEST,werner
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 02:48 AM

goatskins from europe have no anthrax inside but be carefull with african an asian hides !!!

Subject: RE: Bohdran makers beware-Anthrax on bodhran skins?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 06:35 AM

I noticed in my father's copy of the Daily Mirror (I'm a Guardian man, naturally!)they said he made "bongos" !!

RtS