english concertina and irish music

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: woodsie
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 10:08 AM

Ike and (Concer)Tina Turner were quite good.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 09:11 AM

You're right--we shouldn't be so eager to jump on those things.

But it's so much fun--it's really hard to resist.

(And a lot of us don't even try to resist).



Actually this is a great thread--I'm learning a lot.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 07:54 AM

it was a dyslexic moment,sorry or syorry.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 07:11 AM

You mean Concetrina wasn't Mozrat's wife?

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 07:00 AM

its a concertina,There is another technique that I use.The turning of a quaver into two notes.I play the first one short and the second one longer as if I was playing a grace note before the second note ,but the notes are of the same pitch, I do this using two different fingers , and often when the note to follow is on the opposite side [so example] three quavers e a a, e on the left becomes e e followed by a a on the right,or it could be e[quaver]aa.. a more of this in the [concise english concertina tutor] by Dick Miles.Dick Miles.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 06:35 AM

english concetrina and irish music

wots a concetrina?

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 05:01 AM

to foulestroupe,that surely is true of all instruments,it is the players who bring the instrument to life. hence seamus ennis s, famous remark about the bodhran ,an instrument best played with a pen knife.
    I once met a couple in a pub who said we bought a guitar for our son for christmas ,but it was no good it wouldnt play,They thought it would play itself, plug it in and electricity will do the rest.
    now I gather foulestroupe is a duet player,So he has the excitng prospect ofgoing where few have gone before with irish music , iwould suggest exploring the octave overlap, for unison double stops etc. As regards the english, I THINK THE UILLEAN PIPES ARE A BIG INFLUENCE ON MY OWN PLAYING ,crans , can be executed fairly easily.the sound of the regulators[often first and fifth of a chord]can be reproduced convincingly,cuts      can be used to help rhythmic emphasis, as well as finger attack. I use bellows emphasis ,but its more like abroken slur on the fiddle than reversing of bellows, Often an extra push in the same direction.I dontthink im alone in this.when ive seen Madeline O Dowd[all ireland champion concertinist on the english],her bellows movement was pretty similar to mine. however I accept that there is more than one way to do something and the important thing is the music at the end and there are lots of different ways to bring concertina music to life.

Subject: RE: english concertina and irish music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 07:41 PM

The trouble with concertinas and piano accordions is often not the lack of music the instrument, it is the lack of music in the players...

:-)

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: Alan Day
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 07:13 PM

As you have replied DB and not hit and run I will try to address your ignorance of the instrument and some of your comments about it.The concertina is a small instrument, but is far from being a toy.
I play a 38 Key Anglo.Which for this type of Concertina is a different note on the push than on the pull.This means I have available to me 76 notes the equivelant to a small piano.Captain Birdseye plays an English system which is the same note in and out but he has more buttons than I do.The Anglo has the high notes on the right and the low notes on the left,which means that I can play a tune on the right side and play the chords on the left.Many concertina players even when accompanying themselves singing can play the tune and play full chords as well.There is no music that cannot be played on a concertina including that of Bob Marley.
Ragtime,Jazz,Traditional,Classical,Rock,Blue grass,Blues and the list goes on, all have been recorded by concertina players.About three weeks ago I was talking to John Nixon who you will not know DB but he played on a Paul McCartney Album.
Check your facts DB there is a lot more to the Concertina than you think.
Al

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 12:09 PM

and I suppose you played all the lead guitar solos.you should learn to be more objective,just because you happen to like bob marley , it doesnt mean that other music is not valid, personally I like jazz, classical music, traditional music, gamelan music,I dont like bob marley, but I would not dismiss it.How do you define real music, and can you play or sing anything yourself, before you dismiss other peoples creativity, please let us know your own musical acheivements. or are you just another loud mouthed musical ignoramus.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 10:07 AM

Try Bob Marley!

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 08:34 AM

TO GUEST DB, Please enlighten us as to what real music is, and what contribution you have made to it.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: Alan Day
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 08:07 AM

Thanks for your kind observations DB, shame it is coming out of a different part of your body.
Al

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 07:34 AM

Boxing clever ,anglophilia, little black boxes.Alistair anderson noel hill, lea nicholson, steve turner, dick miles, john kirkpatrick,sara graves ,brian peters ,keith kendrick, dave townsend, all dismissed by guest DB as purveyors of a toy. well its a toy that has given me and alot of other people great pleasure. and has inspired musicians as diverse as paul macartney and rigondi to compose for it.long may people play real music on the concertina, and unreal music too.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 05:00 AM

What a lot of BOLLOX at the end of the day it's a poxy squeeze box - a toy! You mugs couldn't even think about real music with your little heads filled with "anglo english anglo irish" shit

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 06:57 PM

I look forward to its appearance.I thoroughly enjoyed Anglo International.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: Alan Day
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 05:51 PM

I have been listening to a great deal of different players recently of the English System Concertina and the style of play seems to point to technique rather than the construction of the instrument.The system of alternate end playing easily lends itself to a smooth flow of notes in a similar way to Anglo players playing across the rows.
Some of the better English players can make the instrument sound like an Anglo or a Duet.So much so I have had to ask considerable advice as to what instrument is being played.In one case the Wheatstone archives had to be looked up to check what the player had purchased.
I have been surprised and impressed by what can be achieved on an English it is a far better instrument than I ever imagined it could be,having concentrated on the Anglo.
I can see no reason after what I have listened to that Irish music can be played extremely well on an English and the popularity of the Anglo in Ireland may be down to the wonderful old players of the Anglo system, the natural in out bounce of the instrument which can be duplicated with technique on the English.
Many styles of English playing will be represented on English International (3 CD collection) which I hope will be released in
November this year.
Al

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 05:01 PM

And of course its great for accompanying songs irish or otherwise.

Subject: RE: english concertina and irish music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:20 PM

"bellows can be used very much like a bow,"

gee I didn't NEED to say it...

"the 'correctness' of my style "

Ah - there's the rub!

but it's called 'interpertation'...


I once was amazed by observing someone who learned from his dad play a 'Classic Piano Accordion Repertoire' on a Button Box - with eyes shut, it was almost impossible to tell - now that's the level of talent and skill I was referring to...

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: GUEST,Riggy
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 12:54 PM

I stopped playing the Anglo and went back to the English, 'cause Noel Hill told me I was playing the Anglo like an English anyway.
I crossed rows to minimize bellows direction changes. I think the apt analogy is that bellows can be used very much like a bow, and
I personally like legato. Doesn't say much for the 'correctness" of my style on Clare reels or such. Oh well, we do what we do.

Riggy

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 09:27 AM

fooles troupe ,do you play the english,.I am sorry but emulating anglo phrasing is not in my opinion correct ,I would rather emulate violin bowing, AND EVEN WITH THAT THERE IS NOT ONE WAY OF DOING IT BUT MANY. the english is the english. the anglo theanglo.why not tell an anglo player to emulate the english , and then there are lots of different anglo phrasings, chris droney is different from noel hill or mary mcnamara.

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 08:48 AM

I'll say it again...

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 08:39 AM

Mebbe, but Irish concertina, played across the rows, has a completely different rhythm from English- style anglo.

Subject: RE: english concertina and irish music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 08:23 AM

You can emulate the "Anglo phrasing" by proper use of the bellows on the English...

Subject: RE: english concetrina and irish music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 08:14 AM

But does it do Irish concertina style music?

Subject: english concetrina and irish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:44 AM

There are several reasons why the english is suitable for irish music,most fiddle ornamentation can be successfully used on the english. fiddle rolls, fiddle trebles[ four note ornaments in jig time].pipers crans can be done, octave triplets, playing phrases in octaves,my tutor gives examples of this. accordion type ornamentation works well, and a lovely flowing legato stylewhich is still danceable canbe acheieved through use of finger attack.fiddle rolls are particuarly suited to the english but more difficult on the anglo.