BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?

Subject: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: kendall
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 01:58 PM

They got him, and he confessed, but did he do it?

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 02:06 PM

I know. If the DNA checks out, then yes. Otherwise, we will probably never know. People confess all the time to things they didn't do. We be sick puppies.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 02:07 PM

His ex-wife says he was in Alabama with her at the time of the killing.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 02:33 PM

With sensational cases like this, it often happens that a number of people confess to the crime, even though they had nothing to do with it. So far, the news reports I've seen haven't given enough information to indicate whether the confession is credible.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: kendall
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 02:56 PM

It's taken 10 years to track him down, and in Thailand, of all places. Why did he wait so long to confess if he didn't do it?

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 02:59 PM

For all we know, Amos, he's been saying it for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 02:59 PM

I want the details.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: MMario
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 03:01 PM

According to the radio this am he turned himself in; he wasn't "tracked down" - but I haven't heard anything since, so that might not be true.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: MARINER
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 03:53 PM

It appears that he was picked up by Thai police for some other unsavoury deed and then confessed to the JonBenet killing. I wonder if this was a ruse to get out of the clutches of the Thai police and the Bangkok Hilton? and to get home safely to the U.S ?

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 03:56 PM

Too bad her mother died of ovarian cancer a few months back, not knowing the outcome of this case. And now the stress of it all may have hastened her death.

This case, as with the Olympic Village bombing case, is one that the press has a lot to answer for. It was a feeding frenzy in which wild speculation has quite literally destroyed lives.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Scoville
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 04:33 PM

I'm not completely convinced he actually did it. He seems to have been obsessed with it and with her for a long time, and it wouldn't be the first time a slightly-unbalanced person has confessed to get attention, or because he's convinced himself he was responsible. I don't know.

Not that I think there's a lot of support for that kind of thing here, but it does remind me once again of just how utterly creepy are child beauty pageants. Lots of quotes in the news here about him being "in love with her", etc. Not healthy. Not that pedophiles won't target children anyway but dressing tiny girls up as Barbie dolls doesn't help.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Becca72
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 04:34 PM

Her mother's death was going to be what I suggested as a possible reason why it's coming out now instead of 10 years ago. This guy may have some mental issues and with Patsy dying the case is back in the news...brings out a new batch of crazies

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 04:40 PM

According to what I've read he didn't confess until after he was arrested. he was arrested witht eh cooperation of law enforcement agencies here and in Thailand. Also, at least Patsy knew about the upcoming arrest:

Text of a statement from John Ramsey, the father of JonBenet Ramsey, released Wednesday, Aug. 16, 2006:

      "I want to have only very limited comment on today's arrest because I feel it is extremely important to not only let the justice system operate to its conclusion in an orderly manner, but also to avoid feeding the type of media speculation that my wife and I were subjected to for so many years.

      "I do want to say, however, that the investigation of the individual arrested today in connection with JonBenet's death was discussed with Patsy and me by the Boulder district attorney's office prior to Patsy's death in June.

      "So Patsy was aware that authorities were close to making an arrest in the case and had she lived to see this day, would no doubt have been as pleased as I am with today's development almost 10 years after our daughter's murder. Words cannot adequately express my gratitude for the efforts of Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy and the members of her investigative team."

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 05:42 PM

Dr. Henry Lee, the noted forensic expert from Connecticut, wrote a book with a chapter on JonBenet's case. Basically, the Boulder Police did such an execrable job that no juror with integrity could convict anyone in her death.

For more info about Dr. Lee, see drhenrylee.com

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: DougR
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 06:02 PM

I think there may be room for doubt. The news conference held by the local District Attorney this morning was a hoot! No idea in the world why she called it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 06:18 PM

Dr. Lee was also the coroner called in as an expert in the Connecticut "woodchipper" murder, in which a man put his dead wife's body through a woodchipper. Fragments were found along a river bank.

Further info on the arrest: U.S. and Thai police moved into rooms down the hall from Karr about 10 days before the arrest to survey Karr's movements and await the arrival of a U.S. arrest warrant, said Thai police official Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 06:47 PM

"Legal experts said DNA evidence will likely be key: DNA was found beneath JonBenet's fingernails and inside her underwear and authorities have never said whether it matches anyone in an FBI database. U.S. and Thai officials did not directly answer a question at a news conference about whether there was DNA evidence connecting Karr to the crime.

"Karr was given a mouth-swab DNA test in Bangkok, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. The results of that test were not immediately known. Karr will be given another DNA test when he returns to the United States in the next several days, the official said. "
Doubts

If not him, I hope they find and convict the killer, the torturer, the perverted mind that was able to conceive and perpetrate this heinous thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:27 PM

Hey! Great idea!

Let's have a 'Trial by Mudcat Thread'!

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:57 PM

Innocent until proven....

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: freightdawg
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 08:18 PM

If he did it there will be some interesting fall-out. According the the online story I read he confessed to drugging the girl and then sexually abusing her. However, the reports at the time were that no drugs or alcohol were found in JonBenet's system. An investigator said that some details about the killing were not released (which is always true) but what about releasing false information? I dunno, just from the news stories it sounds like this guy is one sick puppy who had read everything there is to read on the case and has placed himself into the picture. A good defense attorney will get the confession thrown out. The only evidence that will convict will be the DNA evidence - and I have heard the same arguments as listed above - it is so corrupted that it may never even see the light of trial.

All that being said, if this is the perpetrator, thank goodness they finally caught him.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: freightdawg
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 09:28 PM

Just another thought...reckon they brought this guy out into the klieg lights so they can get the real killer to make a mistake?

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: michaelr
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 09:57 PM

O.J. is still looking for the real killer, too...

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 07:50 AM

His ex-wife has given him a total alibi...

Some people will confess to anything, especially if their interrogators 'know' he is guilty (until proven innocent!) - reminds me of a certain 'prison' on Cuba...

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 12:01 PM

This case was so weird and disgusting, from the dolled-up photos of a six year old as a coiffed and decorated model to the sexual and brutal manner of her death that I deliberately avoided it. When the news came that there might be a solution I dipped in... and now I'm only confused. Gonna ignore this one henceforth.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 12:31 PM

What sort of society do we live in when parents subject their children to this kind of stuff.

Much of the blame here must lie with the parents who appeared to be reasonably intelligent.   There is absolutely no excuse for a mother who dresses her six year old daughter like a prostitute and parades her in front of what can only be described as slavering perverts.

The whole case stinks and is a sad reflection on the "American dream"....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 01:30 PM

Patsy Ramsey was a former beauty queen.

To groom her daughter for the same is not unusual for a mother. Its what she knew.

I don't like beauty pageants of any kind but there is a whole industry based on it and many, many people support the exploitation of women and children.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 01:34 PM

Both her parents should have been prosecuted for protracted child abuse. There's folks in jail for much less.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: SunnySister
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 02:48 PM

Hi everyone,

I have a strange theory about this- it's crossed my mind that the Ramsey's, knowing that the mom was dying and wanted her name cleared, paid Karr to confess and take the fall.

It's obvious to me based on a number of things including my background in non-verbal communication, that Karr is not the murderer. If he did know information that only the murderer would know, he was given that information. I also point out that he has had only sporadic work in over twenty years- how was he able to have fancy cars and live aboard before being arrested. And when arrested, why did he so easily confess?

A lot of questions... I feel very strongly that this man is mentally-ill and that he is not JonBenet's killer.

Just my opinion,
-SunnySister

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 06:36 PM

Who was Jon Benet?
Scuse my ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 06:59 PM

Ask Mr Google for Jon Benet...and it's scary to actually agree with Ake!

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 08:44 PM

I did see an interview (think it was his brother) grab on TV that suggested the guy was writing a book on child abuse...

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 12:14 AM

The guy is a complete nut case.

Not only is he innocent, this is as close to grandeur as he'll ever get. He's just soaking up the attention.

Has anyone else noticed how much he resembles Jon Benet?

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 05:46 AM

Everybody says this is a case of unique interest. I wonder why. It seems a standard sort of paedophile murder to an outsider.

perhaps its the personalities involved, whom I haven't seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 10:19 AM

He didn't do it but he will make a million off his book.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 11:09 AM

Everybody says this is a case of unique interest. I wonder why.

Because it was at the time and is again currently being hyped to death by the gutter press to the exclusion of real news.

Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 11:33 AM

I agree. Funny - no one seems concerned about the child he molested in Thailand.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 11:35 AM

Sins.....BINGO!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 12:32 PM

Just another story to distract the masses from the real news. I predict it will come to nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 02:15 PM

People confess to high profile crimes all the time. Sometimes the confessions are true, most times they are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:29 AM

Tonight on em>Dateline an official said that Karr's DNA will be crucial, that if it matches what was found on Ramsay's body and inside her underwear, that will be an answer but if it doesn't match, that would NOT prove that it was not Karr who killed her, that "we all know that sometimes DNA comes from an extraneous source."

DICTIONARY QUOTE

EXTRANEOUS:
1. Not constituting a vital element or part.
2.Inessential or unrelated to the topic or matter at hand;
3 Irrelevant. See Synonyms at irrelevant.
4. Coming from the outside: extraneous interference.

What kind of "extraneous source"

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 04:14 AM

Her parents should have been prosecuted for taking away her childhood and setting her up as a target for paedophiles in the first place. What kind of nutcase would deliberately expose their six-year-old the way they did? Guess I answered my own question - only a nutcase.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 04:26 AM

Her mother was a beauty queen industry participant - and knew no better.

And Americans wonder why people from other foreign cultures say that US Society Culture looks, and behaves like a big out of control teenager - it often seems to lack 'cultural wisdom' - is that because everybody feels that they just 'need to do their own thing'?

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 04:38 AM

well we can't choose our parents - some of them send their kids to schools run by priests who have forsworn sex. The inherent dangers, you would think, are obvious.

Parents do daft things. We all do.

as for the American thing for child beauty pageants. Do they attract paedophiles? And if they do, is that a reason not to have them. Wouldn't it be a bit like stopping football matches in England, because they attract gangs of criminal hooligans?

Do you think someone that has a weakness for paedophile behaviour is being subjected to unnatural pressures by the child beauty pageants. If they are that way inclined, don't they have a citizen's duty to stay away.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 04:51 AM

"If they are that way inclined, don't they have a citizen's duty to stay away. "

That's a bit unclear what you mean - if you are referring to the 'naughty' people - well the whole thrust (sorry!) of the argument is that they are 'unable to control themselves in the way that a normal adult is expected to'...

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 07:14 AM

not really, we all get urges we have to control.

just this week. I controlled the urge to drive at 100mph through the pedestrianised street in Newark. I didn't shoot dead the kid skateboarding past my house continually, theres a good slope there you see. I didn't scream THIS IS BORING ME SHITLESS! when I attended the local folk club and a young man treated us to no less than five songs - some of which he had written himself. One of which was a timeless classic by James Blunt - which I think is some sort of modern rhymming slang.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 05:13 PM

Don't be frightened Sorcha, I am really a very benign sort of fellow compared to the beasts who run this wonderful free society of ours.

You know.... the ones who instill in us a competitive urge so strong that mothers are prepared to prostitute their babies in order to win win win. For in this society, like the song says, the winner takes it all and the loser will always be a loser.

A society which says that six year olds must be allowed to express their sexuallity......must be a few dollars to be made from that, catering for the pervert market which gets larger every day, nurtured by big business pornography.

A society which says homosexuals must be allowed to achieve their potential as parents regardless of damage, physical or psychological to our innocent children.

The future of all nations is their children, and we treat ours as commodities.

If you find my ideas scary, open your eyes...look at how our society is evolving...and be very afraid.......Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 06:54 PM

I'm hearing that the Thai officials and the Boulder authorities have been well aware of this guy and his possible -- but dubious -- connection with JonBenet's death for a long time.   The timing of the RELEASE of the info and pushing it into the MEDIA is highly "convenient" (as The Church Lady would say) for Dubya and Dickie, coming right on the heels of the announcement that a Federal Judge has ruled that the warrantless wiretapping is a clear violation of Federal law and the Constitution.

Hmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 08:08 PM

Thousands of people are murdered in the states each year. It is indeed an interesting reflection on our times, and the American Way of Life, that the death of this revolting little sprog - a product of brainless parents apparently caught up in one of America's more unpalatable "industries" - should have obsessed the nation so mightily for ten years.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Genie
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 03:08 AM

Ah, yes, Peter. But doesn't that American "obsession" come in handy when those in power want to quickly take the public's mind off a REAL news story that makes them look bad?

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 10:10 AM

"A society which says homosexuals must be allowed to achieve their potential as parents regardless of damage, physical or psychological to our innocent children."

Please provide evidence that children are more likely to be abused when living with a homosexual couple as compared with a heterosexual one...

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Genie
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 11:19 AM

Ah, but, Bagpuss, don't ya know, if society is prejudiced against children whose parents are of some minority - such as mixed race couples - those kids will be MADE FUN OF.   And we all know nobody who's seriously picked on as a kid EVER grows up to make anything of himself or herself!    So, as long as society makes fun of homosexuals or looks down on them, it's child abuse in and of itself whenever gays or lesbians raise children. Even their biological offspring.

QED

Those kids should be raised in a loving, nurturing, stable FOSTER HOME.
Or series thereof.

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 12:20 PM

Bagpuss,

Ake can't support that statement although he will run in circles banging his head ever so violently trying to get us all to agree with him. When that doesn't work, he resorts to name cal.
ling or telling anyone who disagrees with him that they are just trying to be PC. He just doesn't get it

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 02:39 PM

"Those kids should be raised in a loving, nurturing, stable FOSTER HOME."

Where are these loving, nurturing, stable FOSTER HOME, Genie?

I've worked with kids for over 20 years and most kids want to be with their parents, not in foster care. Would you take a child from a loving family and place them with strangers because you don't approve of someone's sexual preferences? Even is you could find foster care for the child, it would be traumatic for everyone to destroy the family. Being homosexual is not against the law.

I suppose, Genie, that because everyone makes of fun of fat people, they should not be allowed to raise children because "it's child abuse in and of itself". Thats a ridiculous line of reasoning.

Social services have enough trouble trying to find foster placement for children who have been physically abused.

Good foster homes are hard to find, maybe you should apply.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 03:24 PM

dianavan, did you miss Genie's rueful grin?

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Scoville
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 03:29 PM

. . . please don't make me start screaming again about the difference between HOMOSEXUAL and PEDOPHILE . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 03:39 PM

I agree with Ebbie. I think Genie was being wondeerfully sarcastic or at least I hope so! (:<))

As far as Ake goes, don't bother playing with the dork.   He's more full of shit than a Christmas goose, completely constipated as his swollen head is jammed waaaaay far up his ass.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 04:14 PM

Thanks Bagpuss. I'd missed that unpleasant remark - which I must say surprises me, as I don't regard Ake as the guy Spaw (and LilyFestre) seem to think he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 05:07 PM

Peter,

   Perhaps you should do some reading of more of his posts.......

And Spaw...LMAO!!!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 06:10 PM

LilyFestre/Michelle, I've read enough of them to like the guy. I just don't like what he said here.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 06:29 PM

Sorry Genie - I did miss your rueful grin.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Genie
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 07:09 PM

Geez, ya can't even be a sarcastic smartass any more without someone thinkin' yer serious!
What's this world coming to!?
LOL

It's OK, dianavan. You just underscored my message from the opposite direction.

I thought the post was so absurd on its face value -- "Those kids should be raised in a loving, nurturing, stable FOSTER HOME.
OR SERIES THEREOF"
and
"we all know nobody who's seriously picked on as a kid EVER grows up to make anything of himself or herself! " -- that even the little ;) emoticon would be superfluous, but I guess not.

Yeah, sad to say, you probably can hear people saying what my post said any day of the week and MEANING it.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 07:28 AM

Peter K, what Akenaton said here is unfortunately a continuation of what he said in this thread: 'Gay' parents?

I followed that thread, and it was all I could do to stay out of it. I stayed out because I have learned that people who think that way can't be reasoned with, and I didn't want to get into a pointless argument.

On other threads I have sometimes enjoyed his posts, but on this particular subject he seems to be blinkered, and I doubt that anything anyone says will change his mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 01:14 PM

Oh yeah. This is important stuff. Marvin and GW Bush could be convicted tomorrow of the 9-11 murders, but you prattle on about this crap. Remember this when you're standing in line at the guillotine.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 01:31 PM

There are people on Mudcat, whom although I have never met, I regard as friends. Peter is one of these people.
The others know the esteem in which I hold them and I won't embarrass them by mentioning their names.

I know Peter does not agree with my views on the placement of children with male homosexual foster parents, but I also know that if we ever did meet, we would be able to discuss the subject in a civilised manner.
We have much more in common idealogically, than this one subject.
Unfortunately it seems that in the US this has become a "political" issue. This hinders proper debate.

I dont wish to say any thing further in this thread regarding homosexual parents, but stand by everything I said on the "Gay Parents" thread.

The people like Lilyfester and Catspaw have already been dealt with on the origional thread, and are hardly worth wasting time on....their arguments comprise mainly of invective, no room for reason or objectivity in their heads.

BTW    I notice no one rushed to defend the American competitive ethic and its consequences, which has much more to do with the death of this poor child....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Scoville
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 10:59 PM

"I notice no one rushed to defend the American competitive ethic and its consequences, which has much more to do with the death of this poor child"

While I don't entirely disagree with you in that I think child beauty pageants are sick beyond all comprehension, there are a whole lot of things that have the potential to be, to not be, or to be partially responsible for her death. Enough children who have never been in the spotlight at all are killed every year by pedophiles that it's incredibly simple-minded to assume that the "American competitive ethic" is to blame (whatever exactly that is--could you be a little more nebulous next time?).

The evidence supporting Mr. Karr's involvement is sketchy and contradictory at best, which means that we the public still have no idea who actually did this or what their motives or access to JonBenet might have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 12:31 AM

Ake, how the heck are you? I am glad you're back posting again. Yes, you and I disagree about homosexual parents and maybe one or two other things, but you are a guy I like very much. You can be relied on to state your opinion. That's a good thing, even when I disagree with it. As to your remark that there is something sick about parents who dress their kids up to look like adults (and in JBR's case, a 'sex' object), too bloody right there's something wrong with that. In fact, there is everything wrong with that.

Hope you're keepin' well.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 03:01 PM

Actually Ake, I think it has more to do with the widespread exploitation of women and children for sexual gratification.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Becca72
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 03:14 PM

I know this is going to cause a ripple here, but speaking as a woman...if my fellow people of the female gender would stop becoming hookers, exotic dancers, beauty queens, etc. then no one could exploit them for doing so. We have no one to blame but ourselves, ladies.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 03:35 PM

Becca, i'm sure you are not including a five-year-old girl child in that.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Becca72
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 04:20 PM

No, Ebbie but I will include her mother.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 04:23 PM

I see your point, Becca, but sometimes, just sometimes, you do what you have to do to earn a living.....and the damn dope habits don't help either.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Becca72
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 04:46 PM

I understand totally, Sorcha, and I feel sorry for people put in a tough position ( I personally work 2 jobs just to get by), but if you're doing it by choice (say, McDonald's wasn't hiring) I don't see how you can claim to be exploited. How many men turn to stripping to get by in tough times? Are they "exploited" for doing so?

Meanwhile, I did not intent to hijack this thread...sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 06:32 PM

In JBR's case, the exploitation was done by her bloody mother and father. There are 'child model' agencies that do not make kids look sexually attractive. They are professional and despite that I think advertising is shit for the most part, they are professional at what they do. Beauty pageants and crap like that are exploitation of people by people. BOTH men and women. In this case, the mother needed her friggin' head examined. The dad too. And maybe the people who go watch that shit should take a second look at what they contribute to.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 10:07 PM

I'm still wondering how I've been "dealt" with! Hey Spaw...you were included in that...how did you get "dealt" with?!?!?! *eyeroll*

Michelle

And Peace....her parents shouldn't have put that child in the position that they did but to me, the responsiblilty falls directly on any human being who takes it upon themselves to put their hands on a child in any inappropriate manner....it doesn't matter HOW the child is dressed....HANDS OFF.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 10:15 PM

Becca,

   I don't know about "men" being exploited but there are a number of young men (18-25) who sell their bodies to make money. :(

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Scoville
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 10:38 PM

From what I hear, stripping and McDonald's are not exactly on the same pay scale, either. (Never had to do either myself, thank goodness, but I hope nobody here thinks you can actually support yourself working at McDonald's.)

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peace
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 12:05 AM

"And Peace....her parents shouldn't have put that child in the position that they did but to me, the responsiblilty falls directly on any human being who takes it upon themselves to put their hands on a child in any inappropriate manner....it doesn't matter HOW the child is dressed....HANDS OFF."

I agree. But that still says responsibility falls with her bloody parents. I did not say or suggest that what that asshole did is in any way excusable or condonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 07:54 AM

Nobody said you did.
And I disagree. The responsibility falls entirely on the person who took advantage of another human being.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 08:47 AM

So you approve of money-grubbing parents who abuse their children by taking away the innocence of childhood and trading them as a commodity, LilyFestre?

They were all abusers - the parents and the shit who killed her.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 09:34 AM

Did I say that? HELL NO. I don't think it's appropriate to dress a child as an adult BUT it shouldn't matter what the child was wearing....people need to keep their fucking hands to themselves. The clothes and the makeup do NOT give permission for anyone to touch...EVER. Get it? Children dress up for dance and gymnastic lessons all the time...they wear makeup, they have little leotards on...does that give permission? Or how about the girls in the swim team or who are taking swim lessons? Their bodies are exposed...parents fault? Predators fault? Seems like a no brainer to me.

I think beauty pagents are ridiculous to begin with...find other ways to give out scholarship money. I'm not saying I advocate what the parents did in this situation but I am saying that that child should have been safe regardless of what she was wearing. Clothes and makeup are not an invitation.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 09:35 AM

PS. The parents involved in pagents like Jon Benet were in are not money grubbing, attention seeking maybe, but not money grubbing. The cost of the costumes and entrance fees are beyond ridiculous....they weren't making kind of money.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 10:54 AM

Lilyfestre, three things:-

1) Your refusal to at least apportion an element of blame to the parents suggested that you don't disapprove of what they did. If you don't say you disapprove, then surely it's implicit that you approve. If I'm misunderstanding you, I apologise.

2) I'm in total agreement that the rule is 'hands off', no debate about that, but why oh why dress and market your kid in a way that brings him/her to the attention of people who just can't keep their hands off? Without the pseudo-showbiz-bullshit that they subjected the girl to, surely it's doubtful that this perverted creep would have ever heard of her, and she'd be around now.

3) I find it difficult to believe that there was no financial motive on the part of the parents - sixty years of studying human nature has brought me to this conclusion - but clearly you know more about the 'business', or maybe the girl's parents, than I do.

Outta here now.
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 11:11 AM

Strollin' Johnny, I don't know what case you're talking about. Maybe this one's being reported a lot differently in the UK than it is here. Her parents didn't need money, they were fairly wealthy, and I don't understand the 'commodity' comment.

I'd like to know when a little kid playing dress-up in a pageant is the same incitement to rape and murder as a full grown woman wearing a short skirt or showing a lot of cleavage. Well, they aren't exactly the same thing because it's no longer acceptable to blame adult women for getting raped because they wore the wrong clothes. Apparently, it's still ok to blame a childs grieving parents.

When I think of all the times I dressed up in Mommy's clothing and makeup when I was a kid, when I think of all the Halloweens and games I played pretending to be an adult, when I think of school shows and dancing like teenagers at friends' houses and parties, it's a wonder I escaped childhood without getting raped and murdered. Maybe there just weren't that many adults back then who believed any sort of child's play gives an adult enough excuse to be a child predator. I don't have a problem with pageants. I have a problem with blaming victims. It takes a bit of a sick mind to believe that a little kid in a costume should be considered a sex object.

This is 100% the killer's fault, and attempts to blame Jon Benet or her parents, or pageants is an attempt to at least partly justify his crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 11:33 AM

Hear, hear! LilyFestre and Jeri have it right imo.

When one says:

"...why oh why dress and market your kid in a way that brings him/her to the attention of people who just can't keep their hands off?", the implication is that there is a way that one can dress a kid that does not attract the attentions of a paedophile. A burka, perhaps?

Further, you say "Your refusal to at least apportion an element of blame to the parents suggested that you don't disapprove of what they did." Whoa. I don't agree with your summation at all and I suspect that you don't actually believe it either, SJ. LilyFestre wasn't implying anything of the kind.

"it's doubtful that this perverted creep would have ever heard of her, and she'd be around now." But maybe some other creep?

"... clearly you know more about the 'business', or maybe the girl's parents, than I do." Snide, Strollin' Johnny. Like most of us here, I don't like the business any more than LilyFestre does; I find it appalling that parents go 'commercial' with their child but in one way - from some parent's point of view - it's not too different from children's participation in league sports.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 02:59 PM

You must live in a strange utopian world, LF, Jeri and Ebbie.

In my view it's a parent's responsibility to protect their children, and I don't see how dressing a 6-year-old as an adult, plastering her with make-up and parading her around gives her any sort of protection. It's unnatural, and if you can't see a danger in doing that sort of thing, you must have led very sheltered lives.

We can't give our kids 100% protection 100% of the time, and there will always be paedos. But for God's sake, let's not deliberately invite their attention.

Ebbie, I wasn't being snide - LF wrote as though she knows something which I don't. And being well-off doesn't stop avaricious people from trying to make more - I remember a case a few years ago of a multi-billionaire who was jailed for not paying two- or -three million dollars tax. A drop in the ocean, you'd think, to a guy like him, but there was no way he'd pay up without a long and expensive fight. Greed does funny things to people.

And BTW, anything I say, I believe (unless, of course I follow it with a smiley!).

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree (which I suppose is what Mudcat's all about really) - it's too sad a subject for us to get arsy about. I blame the guy who did for her of course, but I can't get away from the feeling that this sad little girl was failed by her parents, and some blame has to go their way too.

Pax
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 03:02 PM

What a bunch of fools!!

These are the same people who think its proper to involve children in a social experiment with male homosexuals.
And I always thought women were the "carers"

Yeah Johnny I agree with you and suspect you know more about real caring than most on this forum....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 03:06 PM

Cheers Ake!
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 04:07 PM

"I blame the guy who did for her of course, but I can't get away from the feeling that this sad little girl was failed by her parents, and some blame has to go their way too." SJ

There now, Strollin' Johnny. I agree fully.

Ake, your mindset these days concerns me.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 05:11 PM

Well, Karr is now on his way to Colorado.

What irks me is that I must assume that DNA samples have already been taken from him. If there is a match between it and the one found on the little girl's body they've got the right man. A "fair" trial is only the icing.

If it doesn't match, it seems to me that they could announce that and set the man free or remand him to a mental health facility.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 05:36 PM

Maybe the DNA doesn't match but he knows details of the crime scene that others do not. Maybe he wasn't the only person involved in her murder. Maybe he knows who was.

In any case, I still think he overly identifies with the victim and I suspect that he has serious mental health issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 05:45 PM

Ake is agreeing with you Johnny because I have called him on the carpet about the homosexual parent deal. He's a bigot. No use trying to explain anything there.

As far as the other. You are mistaken. You are likely to know FAR more about this case than I do as I don't have time to watch the drama of it all. I DO know that the mother was involved with pagents before her daughter and have heard her say that it was an enjoyable hobby that she shared with her daughter who loved it as well. I disagree with then entire pagent thing. I'm pretty sure I stated that earlier. I don't think it's appropriate. In the same breath, a child should be safe regardless of what they are wearing. What about many third world countries where parents can't put food on a table they don't have let alone put clothes on their children? I'd be interested to know what the molestation and murder rates are there. Those kinds of behaviors happen far more in the US than in other countries, why? I can't say but I do know that the penalties in other countries are far more harsh.
    Regarding the money issue, have you seen the photos of her home? Those people were not interested in money, it was a hobby for Mommy and the child. The costumes for those events run hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Look it up, you'll see. Then add pagent fees and let's not forget the professional photographs that were taken of Jon Benet, how much does a decent portfolio go for these days?

You have misread my posts entirely. If you'd like to think there's some poor misguided woman sitting at her computer in the United States, knock yourself out. Ebbie and Jeri were right on the money, thanks guys.

Michelle :)

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 03:51 AM

As I said earlier Michelle, if I misunderstood you, I apologise. As someone who worked for many years as a youth-worker dealing with, amongst other (happier) things, the results of parental abuse, neglect and mis-guidance, I get very hot under the collar when I see parents behaving in a way that I personally feel lets their kids down. I find the whole business of promotion of children e.g. in these 'beauty-pageants' (or maybe 'cattle-markets' would be a more appropriate term), or as child-entertainers a la Michael Jackson, Judy Garland and (too many) others, totally distasteful and thoroughly irresponsible, and I firmly believe that parents who indulge in those kinds of things are putting their children in harm's way.

Your point about molestation being far more prevalent in the US than in other, much poorer, countries I reckon is an assumption that might not hold up to thorough investigation. I suspect that it goes on everywhere but, like here in the UK, sophisticated communications and legal systems in the US mean that we get to hear about it, whereas out in the third-world countries that may well not be the case. Don't know it for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me - there are certainly countries (e.g. Thailand, Viet Nam) where child-prostitution is common and apparently accepted and, following logic, every client of a child-prostitute MUST be a molester.

I guess we agree in general, although maybe not in every detail - I still don't see that the wealth of the parents would preclude them from trying to make money out of JonBenet - we have a saying in the UK, "Much wants more", basically it means that those who have the most are likely to behave in the greediest manner, and that's certainly something I've found to be true in my lifetime.

I guess we need to agree to disagree and move on.

S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:11 AM

Michelle, please provide your evidence that these things occur "far more in the US than in other countries". I believe you are using your perception as opposed to citable facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Scoville
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:46 AM

I actually don't think child molestation is more common in the U.S.--I think it is more commonly IDENTIFIED as molestation in the U.S., but there are a lot of countries where the stigma attached to it, especially in the case of very young girls who are raped, is so much worse than it is in the U.S. that a) it's never discussed and b) the terminology is not the same. There are places where girls are married off in their very early teens without having any say in it, and I would consider this to be child molestation, but a lot of other people might not.

I'm not saying it's not common in the U.S., or that I think it's justified in any context, of course, just that the term itself is ambigiuous.






I don't know what exactly he knows that he shouldn't know, but I could see somebody who was that obsessed finding out things that were not publicized. I still don't really believe he did it but I definitely don't think he's mentally stable.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:50 AM

Regardless of whether any blame attaches to the parents, where would you find a society that applauds and revels in the sight of a six-year-old kid being turned into a precocious brat? Outside of the US, Big Mick, nowhere.

Strolling Johnny's raised a legitimate concern, and political correctness should not blind us to it. Surely it's beyond argument that provocative clothing will increase the risk of unwanted attention. It is possible to acknowledge this simple fact without in any way excusing the rapist or the paedophile. It is just a matter or recognising that different people have different thresholds.

If it's an adult woman making decisions about the way she presents herself, no problem. She can assess any risks and make her own choices. But a child is in no place to make such judgement calls. Sure if a kid is raped or killed, someone's committed an offense and should be accountable. But surely there's a case for minimising any risk of the crime in the first place.

Having said all that, I have no idea why Jon Benet was murdered. Maybe she just got up someone's nose, as she did mine, and was unlucky in that the guy (male or female) had a lower threshold than I have. For my part, I would gladly wring the neck of such a child, but only metaphorically.

By the way, Jeri, your Hallowe'en activities are not remotely what I had in mind when I referred to behaviour likely to invite unwanted attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:23 AM

Typical of you, to take a simple question, read into it, and turn it into rant designed to attack the US. If you would read without your well known vendetta coloring your perception, you would note I simply asked a question relating to her gratuitous assertion regarding child abuse levels in the States.

As to your own gratuitous assertion "Outside of the US, Big Mick, nowhere", a very quick check shows Canada has one. I am quite sure that I could spend some time and check in Europe and find some as well.

To all of you that continue to try and fault the parents, I would point out that the evidence seems to point to an illegal entry to the home through a window, that the child was found in her own basement, and the parents were home. I surely would never let my child participate in something which seems to equate self worth with made up looks, but to somehow try and equate participation in these events with putting your child at risk for murder seems to be a stretch. And those that use these arguments are demagogues of the first order.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:45 AM

Mick,

I wish I could tell you where I got that information but it was during one of the many trainings I attended when I was a Social Worker. I took it at face value at the time. If statistics show something different, ok then. It seems to me that we were told that one of the reasons for this high rate is because the punishment really doesn't serve as a deterent as it does in other countries because it isn't as harsh. I hope I'm wrong. Actually, I wish it wasn't an issue anywhere, ever.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 11:24 AM

From Big Mick's link:

Baby Division:

0-11 Months Girls
12-23 Month Girls
0-23 Month Boys
2-3 Years Girls
2-4 Years Boys



Children Division

4-6 years Girls
7-9 years Girls
5-9 year Boys



Pre Teen & Miss Teen

10-12 year Girls
13-19 year Girls

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 11:38 AM

Ya' know, parents, rightly or wrongly, tend to do things with their kids that might cause harm.....emphasis on might. It might be that the kids enjoy these activities although in some cases they don't. Many times these activities are things the parents did themselves or wanted to do.

One step-Dad started his kid racing in quarter midgets at age 5 and when this smallish child was 12 he was plunked down into the cockpit of a Sprint Car...850 horsepower and only a thousand pounds, one of the toughest and fastest cars and series anywhere. Jeff Gordon is now 35 and seems to be doing okay.

How many parents push their kids in football ( both types ) risking serious and crippling injury and even death as well.   How about baseball where we try to teach curveballs to 12 year olds risking rotator cuff injuries.

Obviously JonBenet suffered more than a rotator cuff problem but the motives of her parents had fuck all to do with her death. Pedophiles hang out at parks and soccer games and around schoolyards and softball games and preteen dance classes............

I found the beauty thing pretty revolting but so what? You think it was too? Again, so what? She was murdered by some sickass bastard ... period.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM

Exactly!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 11:53 AM

There are other ways in which parents harm or otherwise exploit their children.

A friend of mine grew up in a family that traveled year 'round from one church to another in half a dozen states, singing for their 'revival meetings' and suchlike. The three children had to sing whether or not they wanted to or felt able, and they frequently spent normal playtime in the backseat of their car traveling to the next gig.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 12:08 PM

Exploitation of women and children IS s worlf-wide problem.

Yes, it happens in India, Moldavia, Thailand, Japan, etc.

People in other countries are trying to get the word out but there is a very high cultural stigma attached to sexual exploitation in most countries. Most countries do not have child pageants but that doesn't mean abuse does not occur.

I don't think there is a direct correclation between rape and beauty pageants. I think beauty pageants are an offshoot of Hollywood. Most of these kids are being groomed for t.v. or movies. Advertising is the gateway.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 12:50 PM

Its the "American Dream" Diana, only its become the American nightmare.
Things are almost as bad in the UK.   Nothing is sacred in the hunt for the   £ or $....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 12:52 PM

OK, OK, Mick.... So I missed Canada!

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 01:09 PM

Cute little trick there, Peter. You make a gratuitous assertion which reflects your prejudices, then when caught you try to skirt by it by just playing it off. Shall I get busy and see if these also happen in the UK? France? Ireland?

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 01:10 PM

Peter T, that reminds me of an old joke.

A man in a pub and well into his cups stands up and loudly says, I can whip anyone in this country.

There's no response and he shouts, I can whip anyone in this town!

Still no response. He roars, I can whip anyone in this bar.

A big burly man in the back of the pub has had enough. He stands up and starts making his way to the front.

The drunk says hastily, Wait. Maybe I took in too much territory.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 01:18 PM

Please do, Big Mick. You might find a handful of folk, in some of those countries, who like to ape the US - cheerleader stuff; grotesque US-style "Irish" dancing (where the kids are obliged to perform in disgusting wigs), that kind of thing - but I'd be surprised (and dismayed) if it's big business anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 01:26 PM

Peter,

    If you are so curious about these things, why not look it up yourself?

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 01:36 PM

Peter, I remind you of what you said;

where would you find a society that applauds and revels in the sight of a six-year-old kid being turned into a precocious brat? Outside of the US, Big Mick, nowhere.


I have given you one example, and I found others. I could also expand the argument and look for places (Eastern Europe, Thailand, Netherlands) where children are used for actual prostitution. You want more? Then instead of running off at the mouth at every chance to attack US culture, take a look around. We don't have any lock on this stuff.

You made a gratuitous assertion. I rebutted it. Got a problem with adults using kids for vicarious reasons, or outright taking advantage of them? So do I. It disgusts me to see beautiful little children dressed up like this. Keep the discussion to that instead of trying to turn everything into an attack on the USA.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 03:56 PM

Mick, child prostitution goes on all over the world, including here in the UK, and decent people all over the world think it stinks. That's not quite the same thing as a society that "applauds and revels" etc.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean to slag the whole of US society, just to say that America is the only place that seems to have such a society within it. But according to Mick, Canada harbours a similar sick element. So that's me shot down in flames. I'll know to say "North America" next time.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Genie
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:40 PM

Sorry if I missed this in all the posts here, but I wonder if people realize how many children who are molested and/or killed were not dressed or acting in anything but age-appropriate ways.
From what I've read of true pedophiles, part of what turns them on is likely to be the look of a pure, innocent prepubescent child.   Some even molest toddlers and infants.
And the "doing-it-to-a-schoolgirl" fantasy seems more tied to the starched white long-sleeved, high-necked blouse and modest pleated skirt of a school uniform than to anything resembling a street hooker or pageant princess evening gown.

IF this creep Farr is JonBenet's killer, who's to say he wouldn't have lusted after her and molested her even if she had never been in pageants?   Polly Klaas and Lee Isley (a 4-year-old in my neighborhood who was kidnapped, tortured, molested, and murdered by Westley Allen Dodd) weren't in pageants and didn't have parents exploiting their looks or sexuality.

There are plenty of reasons to disdain child beauty pageants, but I'm not at all convinced involvement in them makes a child more of a target for predatory pedophiles.   And I'm not convinced that JonBenet's murder was connected to her pageant involvement.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Becca72
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 04:41 PM

BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 32 minutes ago
BOULDER, Colo. - KUSA, a television station in Denver, reported Monday that two sources said the DNA sample taken from John Mark Karr is not a match with the DNA found on JonBenet Ramsey's body when she was slain in 1996.

KUSA also reported that the Boulder County District Attorney's office will drop the charges against Karr.

Samples of Karr's saliva and hair were taken in Boulder after his arrival on Thursday, KUSA, an NBC affiliate, reported. Those samples were tested over the weekend at the Denver Police Department's Crime lab, the station reported

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 04:43 PM

No surprise there, eh.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 04:57 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Willie-O
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 05:14 PM

Yeah, assuming the report is accurate (and they did say TWO sources, albeit anonymous ones) this guy's name will be dropping out of the headlines faster than a speeding rumour. Did you already notice how little attention he got over the weekend? Methinks the networks were trying not to make any worse fools of themselves...damage control. Although I did hear one reporter assert that Karr was going to Denver where he "will be formally charged" with the murder. Obviously the copywriter is a deficient psychic, which is suggestive of the sorry state of journalism in these troubled times.

Sad. All so very sad.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 05:18 PM

Yeah, Bill. There isn't much about the good ole days that I yearn for, but I sure would like to get rid of the "news as entertainment" and get back to good old journalistic integrity. During better times for news journalism, this guy wouldn't have gotten near the press he did. And this DA should be looking for work very soon. Maybe ex-Sheriff Stone can help her out.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 05:44 PM

I hope he will be charged for other things though. Taxpayers no doubt are footing the bill for his little excursion into fantasy.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 06:15 PM

Well, Search and Rescue ops are now charging for the dumb ass peoples' rescue...make him pay the costs of getting him back.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 06:43 PM

My cartoon:

picture of check for $1 million to Mark Karr signed by Karl Rove...

memo: to distract media at the time of the 1st anniverery of Katrina.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: mrdux
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 06:47 PM

well it seems to be official -- the DA's office formally dropped charges.
AP story

in the meantime, it looks like mr. karr has to go to sonoma county, ca, to deal with some unresolved child pornography matter from five years ago.

so at least the trip shouldn't be an entire waste.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 06:55 PM

I think the authorities should charge Karr for his transportion back to the states and for his 'hotel' stay in California. As if anybody, anywhere, any time ever really thought this guy did it!

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 07:43 PM

Nancy Grace thought so.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: michaelr
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 07:52 PM

"well it seems to be official -- the DA's office formally dropped charges."

What I said.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 08:51 PM

Whatever!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 08:52 PM

"The death of this revolting little sprog" "a precocious brat"
Peter K, how dare you; we all saw a few pictures of the child in clothes her mother picked out, or a clip of her doing a performance she had been taught. Tell us how you ever had an adequate basis for knowing how her actual personality compared with that of any other little child her age.      
                            Dean

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 09:20 PM

Hopefully, this slimeball will be sent back to Thailand at his own expense. Let him answer some of the porn charges there and save us a few bucks.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: kendall
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 09:20 PM

That's my girl. (Becca72)

It was obvious when he said he killed Amelia Earhart that he was a lying asshole. However, it was a good way to get out of Thailand.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 09:36 PM

I don't think this is over. I'm not quite sure what could be going on, but I think it has to be more than what it appears to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 10:23 PM

Did he ever say he did it? I thought the closest thing he ever said was that he witnessed her death....not quite the same as doing the killing.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Jon Benet's killer caught?
From: tarheel
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 10:30 AM

Karr to D.A..   "April Fool!"...

tar...