BS: Is TRUTH subjective?

Subject: RE: BS: Is TRUTH subjective?
From: Slag
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 06:05 PM

"...qui est veritas?"

Subject: RE: BS: Is TRUTH subjective?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 08:00 AM

"Is TRUTH subjective?"

Maybe yes, and maybe no.

Subject: RE: BS: Is TRUTH subjective?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 06:08 AM

A mathematical truth is one which is consistent with the axiomatic basis from which it is derived. Nothing more or less.

A scientific truth is a statement which is useful in that testable predictions can be made from it, and all tests of its predictions have so far proved accurate. All scientific truths are therefore provisional.

In a court case, you may swear to tell the whole truth, but you can't do that with yes/no answers, so the court actually requires you to do conflicting things. But then, the legal system is rarely concerned with truth in any of its many meanings.

I'll leave it to others to talk about emotional and religious truths.

Subject: RE: BS: Is TRUTH subjective?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:09 AM

Just as with reality, truth comes several ways. The truth is the truth but mine may be different then yours. There can be only one real truth but the possibilities for perceived truths can be endless. In general though, it doesn't matter. Lies are a far better medium of exchange as the late, great Allen Sheman proved in the following:

*************WHY LIES ARE BETTER THAN THE TRUTH************A Scientific Comparison

I. CREDIBILITY: All lies are designed to seem true. The expert liar carefully uses elements that seem probable and logical and therefore easy to believe. On the other hand, The Truth is often illogical, wildly improbable and hard to explain. Summary: Lies are more believable than the truth.

II. RELIABILITY: The Truth is spontaneous, accidental and unpredictable. Lies however can be planned in detail long in advance and are thus guaranteed to turn out just as predicted. Summary: Lies are more dependable than The Truth.

III. ECONOMY: To be The Truth, an account of a given event must be completely accurate. This requires painstaking resourcefulness, expensive research, time consuming attention to detail, complex logistics and thoroughness. In spite of all that, some people will believe it and others will not. A lie will produce the same results without all the fuss and bother. Summary: Lies are simpler than The Truth; Lies cost less than Truth in time, money, and effort.

IV. VALUE: The Truth can be found anywhere; it belongs to anyone who finds it, absolutely free. Lies are custom-made, often by experts, and the best ones are highly polished works of art. Summary: Lies are worth more money than Truth. Have you ever heard of anybody bribing a witness to tell The Truth?

V. RESPECTABILITY: A) Great fortunes have been made by selling Lies to the public. The people who sell these lies are often grateful to the gullible consumers, so they endow libraries and universities and cultural centers. B) Nobody ever made a fortune selling The Truth. First of all, as already stated, The Truth is free. The only people who will pay money for The Truth are people who are being blackmailed--and they are only buying The Truth so they can hide it before anybody else sees it. Summary: Lies lead to libraries and universities, while The Truth leads to blackmail.

VI. STABILITY: A) Take 1000 parts Truth, add 1 part Lie. Result: A Lie. B) Take 1000 parts Lie, add 1 part Truth. Result: Again, a Lie. C) Note that you can make a Lie out of The Truth, but you can't make The Truth out of a Lie. Summary: Lies are stronger and last longer than The Truth.

VII. IMAGINATION: In reporting The Truth, a person must research the precise facts and stick to them exactly as they occurred. The liar can report the same incident without doing any research, merely saying whatever comes to his mind and filling in "details" according to his fancy. Summary: Lies are more creative than The Truth.

VIII. RECOGNIZABILITY: People are accustomed to hearing lies all the time. Summary: If you tell The Truth, people will think you are lying and if you convince them you are telling The Truth, they will become suspicious. (Why is he suddenly telling The Truth? What's going on?)

IX. SUPPLY & DEMAND: In describing any given incident, only one version can be The Truth, whereas the number of Lies possible is unlimited. Obviously, Lies are in far greater supply than The Truth. Frankly, there is a great demand for Lies, if they are flattering, if they build up one's hopes, if they help one escape reality, or if they promise wealth, health, power, or potency. Nobody is very anxious to hear The Truth. The only people who demand The Truth are those who are investigating something (lawyers, etc.)--and they only want The Truth to prove somebody is lying. Summary: Lies are the acceptable medium of exchange in our society. They are in good supply and the demand for them remains strong. The Truth is in extremely short supply and even this tiny supply far exceeds the demand. Thus in our society, The Truth occupies a position identical to that of dinosaur shit.


CONCLUSION: Lies are superior to The Truth in numerous ways. Lies are ingenious; Lies make the world seem more pleasant; Lies are less embarrassing than Truth and less frightening. Furthermore, in fields such as diplomacy, statesmanship, merchandising, advertising, public realtions, and bookkeeping, The Truth is an out-and-out handicap. In friendship, Truth is harmful; in love, it is disastrous. The Truth is that The Truth has become old fashioned. Its full of odd shaped little nooks and crannies like so many old fashioned things; some people find them fascinating, but most people find them a pain in the neck. To find all the joys that go along with handling of and handing on The Truth is a labor of love, but most of us in today's society have no time for such things.

*********************************************************************

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is TRUTH subjective?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:01 AM

What is truth?

How many of the available answers would you like to hear?

Salesman's truth:- Whatever I can persuade you to believe, based on your lack of knowledge of my product.

Strong man's truth:- Whatever I say it is, and if you call me a liar I'll flatten you.

Politician's truth:- Whatever I allow you to see and hear through the media (and I control media output).

Voter's truth:- Whichever part of the argument best fits my personal needs and prejudices.

Child's truth:- 1. (Incoming) Whatever Mum and Dad tell me.
                2. (Outgoing) Whatever lie will protect me from being punished.

Now, what was that about truth being absolute?

Dream on.

Don T.

Subject: BS: Is TRUTH subjective?
From: Slag
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 04:26 AM

There is mathmatical truth which until "String Theory" seemed to convey an intrinsic quality of correctness or "truth". What else qualifies?

If you are sworn in as a witness in a court case you aver to tell the Truth, the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth--- then they begin trying to make you answer yes or no to questions that beg explanation. Are they getting the Whole Truth? Are you telling the Whole Truth? What's the Truth?